General Discussion : 6853


General / 6853

Re: Conversation w/ a LEGO Rep —Mike Stanley

(...) Why? 50% off isn't THAT great a deal. Now 75% off, maybe. (25 years ago, 20-Aug-99, to lugnet.general)

Re: Conversation w/ a LEGO Rep —Tom Stangl

Yeah, well, 50% off is no great deal FOR YOU. Me, I live in an area that stuff almost NEVER goes on sale past 20%, because it sells out before it can hit any lower IF they had any in stock to begin with. I got my first deep discount sets in AGES (...) (25 years ago, 20-Aug-99, to lugnet.general)

Re: Conversation w/ a LEGO Rep —Mike Stanley

(...) Don't get me wrong - 50% off is a great deal - just not great enough to warrant asking a woman to marry you. Unless she has other qualities to recommend her, of course. Like huge ... quantities of pre 1990's Castle lego sets. (25 years ago, 21-Aug-99, to lugnet.general)

Re: Conversation w/ a LEGO Rep —Scott Edward Sanburn

No tracks of land for you, Mike? ;) Scott Sanburn (...) (25 years ago, 21-Aug-99, to lugnet.general)

Re: Conversation w/ a LEGO Rep —Larry Pieniazek

(...) <pedant> c /tracks/tracts/ </pedant> (25 years ago, 21-Aug-99, to lugnet.general)

Re: Conversation w/ a LEGO Rep —Tom McDonald

(...) stuff (...) KB (...) after (...) I live in the same area as Tom S, and he's right. We don't get good deals here. It's not whining, just a fact. My first half-off Lego set discount I picked up about 400 miles from my home. I didn't go out of my (...) (25 years ago, 21-Aug-99, to lugnet.general)

Re: Conversation w/ a LEGO Rep —Paul Baulch

Tom McDonald wrote in message ... (...) stuff (...) any (...) Yeah, well you guys don't know how lucky you are - in Australia the prices suck even MORE because it's all imported. I've seen sets at DYA shopping that even WITH shipping were around (...) (25 years ago, 21-Aug-99, to lugnet.general)

Re: Conversation w/ a LEGO Rep —Robert Farver

(...) Of course you don't have to shovel snow in the winter, or sweat to death in blistering heat and humidity in the summer. California costs more in my opinion because it's a nicer place to live. If it cost the same as everywhere else there'd be a (...) (25 years ago, 22-Aug-99, to lugnet.general)

Re: Conversation w/ a LEGO Rep —Steve Bliss

(...) It's nothing to do with ripping people off, it's the overall local prices. IIRC The Bay Area has the *highest* cost of living in the entire 48 contiguous states. Right now, gas prices are sucking in MI--they're hanging around $1.25/gal for 87 (...) (25 years ago, 23-Aug-99, to lugnet.general)

Gasoline prices (was: Re: Conversation w/ a LEGO Rep) —Todd Lehman

(...) I'm amazed by how much the price of gasoline in the U.S. has fallen in the past two decades. As far as I can remember, it's remained roughly steady at around ~US$.95 to ~US$1.40 per gallon since at least 1985, which was about when I started (...) (25 years ago, 23-Aug-99, to lugnet.general, lugnet.off-topic.fun)

Re: Gasoline prices (was: Re: Conversation w/ a LEGO Rep) —Eric Kingsley

(...) I actually find this conversation somewhat humorous in that we in the US can complain about our gas prices. Anywhere else in the world we would be paying the equivalent of $5 per gallon or more!!! It is funny (Thats funny-wierd not funny-haha) (...) (25 years ago, 23-Aug-99, to lugnet.off-topic.fun)

Re: Gasoline prices (was: Re: Conversation w/ a LEGO Rep) —Tom Stangl

Uh, Todd? Where ARE you getting your figures? Premium (and damn near 87 for a while!) is $1.85 down the street from me at the CHEAPEST gas station in my area. In SF, it tops $2/gal. If that $1.40/gal means 87 octane, you're getting closer, but not (...) (25 years ago, 24-Aug-99, to lugnet.off-topic.fun)

Re: Gasoline prices (was: Re: Conversation w/ a LEGO Rep) —Todd Lehman

(...) Anywhere, everywhere -- prices are different depending on where you are, but on the whole, the prices of gas have gone up less than everything else has -- just like LEGO. So the prices of gas and LEGO have actually gone *down* considerably in (...) (25 years ago, 24-Aug-99, to lugnet.off-topic.fun)

Re: Gasoline prices (was: Re: Conversation w/ a LEGO Rep) —Steve Bliss

(...) A lot of the price difference depends on the taxes built into gasoline. We pay a bunch of taxes on our gas. I think a rough figure is 30% of the price of gas is actually taxes. Steve (25 years ago, 24-Aug-99, to lugnet.off-topic.fun)

Re: Gasoline prices (was: Re: Conversation w/ a LEGO Rep) —Scott Edward Sanburn

30%, I thought it was 50%! Scott S. eve (25 years ago, 24-Aug-99, to lugnet.off-topic.fun)

Re: Gasoline prices (was: Re: Conversation w/ a LEGO Rep) —Martin Legault

(...) It's 50% taxe here in Quebec. :-( about 0.45US$ a litter Martin (25 years ago, 26-Aug-99, to lugnet.off-topic.fun)

Re: Gasoline prices (was: Re: Conversation w/ a LEGO Rep) —Jesse Long

Martin Legault <mlegault@nortelnetworks.com> wrote in message news:FH2ss3.671@lugnet.com... (...) That metric thing can really get you if you don't remember it. Walking past a gas station in Germany a couple of years ago I checked out the prices and (...) (25 years ago, 27-Aug-99, to lugnet.off-topic.fun)

Re: Gasoline prices (was: Re: Conversation w/ a LEGO Rep) —Tom McDonald

In lugnet.off-topic.fun, Todd Lehman writes: <snipped> (...) It's what the market will bear, and what the cartel enforces. You'd think that it would be cheaper closer to the pipe. So given the fact that it seems to be cheaper away from California it (...) (25 years ago, 24-Aug-99, to lugnet.off-topic.fun)

Re: Gasoline prices (was: Re: Conversation w/ a LEGO Rep) —Richard Dee

On Mon, 23 Aug 1999 19:59:28 GMT, Todd Lehman uttered the following profundities... (...) When I was living in New Jersey, up to 1986-87, it had the cheapest prices in the country, hovering around the 80 cent mark. I believe that was due to lowest (...) (25 years ago, 29-Aug-99, to lugnet.off-topic.fun)

Re: Conversation w/ a LEGO Rep —Adam Howard

Steve Bliss <blisses@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message news:37c15dc5.581857...net.com... (...) It also has to do with the type of gasoline you use. California passed a law a few years back that requires a special kind of 'environmentally' friendly (...) (25 years ago, 23-Aug-99, to lugnet.general)

Re: Conversation w/ a LEGO Rep —Tom McDonald

(...) a few years back that requires a special kind of (...) environmentally friendly or not (mainly because the mpg is (...) 'environmentally' friendly gasoline costs a whole lot more to make, (...) The additive added was MTBE, an oxygenating (...) (25 years ago, 24-Aug-99, to lugnet.general, lugnet.off-topic.fun)

Re: Conversation w/ a LEGO Rep —Christopher Tracey

Tom McDonald wrote in message in regard to MTBE (...) Try (URL) for a good overview of MTBE. If you are really interested in the science of MTBE you can search the US Geological Survey website at (URL) or the EPA website at (URL) . MTBE is a pretty (...) (25 years ago, 24-Aug-99, to lugnet.off-topic.fun)

Re: Conversation w/ a LEGO Rep —Steve Bliss

(...) It also has a lot to do with the local gasoline taxes. It amazes me how much gas prices change when I cross state lines. Once I actually turned around and headed back across the border to fill up because of the difference in price (hint: if (...) (25 years ago, 24-Aug-99, to lugnet.general, lugnet.off-topic.fun)

Re: Conversation w/ a LEGO Rep —Richard Dee

On Mon, 23 Aug 1999 14:51:45 GMT, Steve Bliss uttered the following profundities... (...) <rant at no one in particular> Oh how criminal. The shame of it. Oh how you yanks are ripped-off in so many ways. Stop your pathetic whining over what are (...) (25 years ago, 24-Aug-99, to lugnet.general)

Re: Conversation w/ a LEGO Rep —Mike Stanley

(...) I seriously doubt you're subsidizing our gas prices. What you're doing is paying a boatload of taxes to pay for all the silly social programs you enjoy. (...) Yup. (25 years ago, 24-Aug-99, to lugnet.general)

Re: Conversation w/ a LEGO Rep —Richard Dee

On Tue, 24 Aug 1999 18:13:12 GMT, Mike Stanley uttered the following profundities... (...) Not gas prices. But I can buy any number of UK-produced items in America (clothing being one example), cheaper in the US, even after paying the UK's sales tax (...) (25 years ago, 31-Aug-99, to lugnet.general)

Re: Conversation w/ a LEGO Rep —Gary R. Istok

(...) Richard is right. We do whine a lot...... BUT Americans do make sure their elected representatives HEAR them (whining). When USA taxes are raised, the usual result is someone in government gets booted out of office. Lower taxes are the norm. (...) (25 years ago, 24-Aug-99, to lugnet.general)

Re: Conversation w/ a LEGO Rep —Bram Lambrecht

(...) It's funny: when I was younger, I thought LEGO was cheaper in Belgium (where most of my relatives live) than in the US because it was closer to Denmark. Maybe it was cheaper because my parents didn't have to pay for it; my grandparents did :) (...) (25 years ago, 24-Aug-99, to lugnet.general)

Re: Conversation w/ a LEGO Rep —Eric Kingsley

(...) I agree as well and that is probably one of the reasons many people dislike Americans. We rarely take a Global view and are for the most part more concerned about ourselves and rarely think outside of the bounds of the USA. That being said (...) (25 years ago, 24-Aug-99, to lugnet.general)

Re: Conversation w/ a LEGO Rep —Simon Robinson

(...) That's true of all countries. Yes, we all need to be a lot more aware of what goes on elsewhere in the world. It's great to hear someone saying that. Simon (URL) (25 years ago, 25-Aug-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Conversation w/ a LEGO Rep —Simon Robinson

(...) <snip> (...) provides a (...) I'm with Richard on that one. In the UK we pay the equivalent of about $5 a gallon. People here do complain about the huge petrol tax here but I'd say it's fair. Driving *DOES* damage the environment. You drive a (...) (25 years ago, 25-Aug-99, to lugnet.general, lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Conversation w/ a LEGO Rep —Adam Howard

Simon Robinson <simon@simonrobinson.com> wrote in message news:FH13En.Mnt@lugnet.com... (...) (snip) (...) We don't. Our federal govenment has tons of debt. Any news to the contrary is just smoke and mirrors. Adam (25 years ago, 25-Aug-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Conversation w/ a LEGO Rep —Gregor Benedikt Rochow

(...) Environment-friendly as it may seem, insane gasoline taxes to subsidize inefficient public transport do not reduce pollution per se. Despite low gas prices, pollution here has been reduced quite a bit since the introduction of emmissions (...) (25 years ago, 25-Aug-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Cra pollution[ was: Re: Conversation w/ a LEGO Rep] —Simon Robinson

'Despite several searches, I can't find the message this is supposed to be in reply to - so I'll just have to start a new thread] (...) True. You really need three things for that. [1] High petrol taxes, [2] Decent public transport, and [3] A (...) (25 years ago, 28-Aug-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Cra pollution[ was: Re: Conversation w/ a LEGO Rep] —John DiRienzo

Simon Robinson wrote in message <016301bef0f9$aed3ed...co.net>... (...) years (...) Not like you seem to think. First, catalytic convertors have been required for over 20 years (is that what you mean by a few?). Second many states have emissions (...) (25 years ago, 28-Aug-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Cra pollution[ was: Re: Conversation w/ a LEGO Rep] —Simon Robinson

(...) OK. I'm impressed. By a 'few' I meant that the requirement was introduced sometime during the 1990s - but I'm not sure when. Does sound like you are way ahead of Europe in that respect. Don't think most of us had even heard of catalytic (...) (25 years ago, 29-Aug-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Car pollution[ was: Re: Conversation w/ a LEGO Rep] —John DiRienzo

Found this unsent message - forgive me if I already sent it... Simon Robinson wrote in message ... (...) I agree, I don't blame the legislation of this type on the conservatives, either! I also don't attribute the passing of such laws to people (...) (25 years ago, 8-Sep-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Conversation w/ a LEGO Rep —Mark Herzberg

(...) All I can say is that despite how nice Europe is, I could never live in Europe. Everything is just too expensive compared to the US. For example, I paid US$X for my car. It the UK, the car cost £X, and thats a big difference. And then there is (...) (25 years ago, 14-Sep-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Conversation w/ a LEGO Rep —Larry Pieniazek

(...) And is that a good thing(Jags RULE, d00d!) or a bad thing (Lucas, prince of darkness.. motto of the Lucas electric works: "a good day's work and home before dark!") ? (25 years ago, 15-Sep-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Conversation w/ a LEGO Rep —Steve Bliss

(...) Gary, haven't you noticed Governor Engler's re-election signs all over the state? They say things like "Detour" and "Road Under Construction". I figure by the time the election is over, every mile of highway will have been repaved. Steve (25 years ago, 25-Aug-99, to lugnet.general)

Re: Conversation w/ a LEGO Rep —Tom McDonald

(...) hehe I must admit I started this whole gas price thing, but what was snipped in the process was how expensive European gas is. I am glad that I don't have to pay taxes on petroleum products like Europe does cuz that would deflate my Lego (...) (25 years ago, 25-Aug-99, to lugnet.general)

Re: Conversation w/ a LEGO Rep —Adam Howard

Richard Dee <richard.dee@virgin.net> wrote in message news:MPG.122bb3a6c8e...net.com... (...) $1.25/gal (...) Yanks? Dems fightin' words. Yankees live up north above Kentucky and Virginia, Southerners live down south. And Westerners live on the (...) (25 years ago, 25-Aug-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Conversation w/ a LEGO Rep —Jesse Long

Adam Howard <abhoward10@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:FGzy1q.A59@lugnet.com... (...) I'm a Yankee. Although don't tell anyone, as I currently reside in Texas. Ever look at the productivity rates in Europe? Or the unemployment? I like it better (...) (25 years ago, 25-Aug-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Conversation w/ a LEGO Rep —Simon Robinson

(...) I've just seen some very strange answers to this question. Jesse, I think what you've written comes closest to the truth. Eric Kingsley was pretty close to the mark too. Coming from the UK, I think that yes it is true that *in general* many (...) (25 years ago, 25-Aug-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Conversation w/ a LEGO Rep —Gregor Benedikt Rochow

(...) ^^^...^^^ (...) Being from Germany originally, I have to wholeheartedly agree that the European 'news' media generally strive to (and succeed at) creating a very poor impression of America. Besides intentional misinformation[1] and genuine (...) (25 years ago, 25-Aug-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Conversation w/ a LEGO Rep —Adam Howard

Simon Robinson <simon@simonrobinson.com> wrote in message news:FH135q.M3B@lugnet.com... (...) (snip) (...) Yeah. Only when it's too late to nip the thing in the bud, then the rest of the world gets draged in kicking and screeming. (snip) (...) (...) (25 years ago, 25-Aug-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Conversation w/ a LEGO Rep —Simon Robinson

(...) do (...) Oh yes - much of Europe has awful problems with prejudice. I wouldn't say most people in the UK have a very good impression of Serbs either :) Possibly the difference is - at least in the case of gays - that by and large mainstream (...) (25 years ago, 28-Aug-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Misperceptions of America (Was: Conversation w/ a LEGO Rep) —Scott Edward Sanburn

Simon (and all Europeans and Americans of similar thinking); (...) Oh, yes, Europeans reactions to the whole Yugoslavia breakup has been stellar, hasn't it? Or is it that Europeans screamed for America to spend our own troops and money on it? Give (...) (25 years ago, 25-Aug-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Misperceptions of America (Was: Conversation w/ a LEGO Rep) —Adam Howard

Scott Edward Sanburn <ssanburn@aeieng.com> wrote in message news:37C463EE.BEAF6F...eng.com... (...) (snip) (...) doesn't (...) with one (...) stand (...) a (...) this (...) therefore (...) felon.) (...) Right on! I think he should be charged with (...) (25 years ago, 26-Aug-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Misperceptions of America (Was: Conversation w/ a LEGO Rep) —Scott Edward Sanburn

Adam, Thank God there are some reasonable people out there! Have a great day! Scott "The angry Christan Conservative" Sanburn. (...) (25 years ago, 26-Aug-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Misperceptions of America (Was: Conversation w/ a LEGO Rep) —Ed Jones

(...) Please, this is such total inane garbage. Clinton was guilty of treason - do you really believe that Republican crap. He lied about having a relationship outside of his marriage - geez, why was the world not surprised that he lied. Could it (...) (25 years ago, 26-Aug-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Misperceptions of America (Was: Conversation w/ a LEGO Rep) —Larry Pieniazek

Ed Jones wrote: <the republicans tried to get clinton because he slept around> <old ground alert: this has been covered before but we can't have the record muddied here, I suffer from lastworditis as much as the next guy> No. They tried to get him (...) (25 years ago, 26-Aug-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Misperceptions of America (Was: Conversation w/ a LEGO Rep) —Ed Jones

(...) No, the republicans have been using ever possible dirt digging tactic they can find since Clinton won in 1992. This was just another attempt by the Elephant heads to make a mountain out of a molehill to make themselves appear to be the "moral" (...) (25 years ago, 26-Aug-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Misperceptions of America (Was: Conversation w/ a LEGO Rep) —Larry Pieniazek

(...) Sorry, but that's what I distilled out. You spent two paragraphs trying to explain Clinton's crime as "he slept around, which is not a crime" and one sentence on the theme below. (...) Granted that what you say is true(1), I'm just confining (...) (25 years ago, 26-Aug-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Misperceptions of America (Was: Conversation w/ a LEGO Rep) —Ed Jones

(...) Ok, I can see where you were coming from. (...) can (...) Elephant (...) the (...) While I do not deny that he perjured, my point is that the majority of Americans view that perjury as a non-perjury, and certainly not impeachable. And the (...) (25 years ago, 26-Aug-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Misperceptions of America (Was: Conversation w/ a LEGO Rep) —Scott Edward Sanburn

(...) Funny, Ed, that you consider if the public knows about law or not, is better than the judicial system? Public opinion does not weigh in the rule of law. Sorry. I would not want to be tried in that court, then. And since when did you guys worry (...) (25 years ago, 26-Aug-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Misperceptions of America (Was: Conversation w/ a LEGO Rep) —Ed Jones

(...) Huh???? Public opinion does not weigh in the rule of law. (...) Wrong, public opinion has a whole lot to do with law. How do you think most laws get made/changed/deleted - public opinion warrants a change in the law. (...) Exactly who is "you (...) (25 years ago, 26-Aug-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Misperceptions of America (Was: Conversation w/ a LEGO Rep) —Mike Stanley

(...) So if the majority of Americans decided that homosexuality was a jailable offense, you'd be all right with that? The law is the law, and until the law says something different, the opinions of a few thousand Americans asked for any given poll (...) (25 years ago, 26-Aug-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Misperceptions of America (Was: Conversation w/ a LEGO Rep) —Mike Stanley

(...) Either you have a pretty funny sense of what art is or you've never seen some of the things the NEA has funded. The NRA can fall off the face of the planet as far as I'm concerned, but the NEA might as well join them for all the use I have for (...) (25 years ago, 26-Aug-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Misperceptions of America (Was: Conversation w/ a LEGO Rep) —Scott Edward Sanburn

(...) Do you agree with the mob rule mentality, then? people should be tried on public opinion rather than a courtroom? So if I say you should be killed, and 500 other people want to, then it is OK? That is baffling! Just because the public opinion (...) (25 years ago, 27-Aug-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Misperceptions of America (Was: Conversation w/ a LEGO Rep) —Jeff Boen

(...) uhhh.. pardom me if I.Q.s just dropped sharply while i was away (name that movie!)... but isn't that the definition of a little thing called democracy??? (first, let me state that the issue you spoke is irrelevant in my arguement, i don't want (...) (25 years ago, 27-Aug-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Name That Movie (Was: Misperceptions of America) —Jeremy Sproat

(...) "I may be an android, but I'm not stupid. (shaky grin)" "You're always saying that, Frost. You're always saying, 'I gotta bad feeling about this drop.' " Aliens! Wooo...ooo-hooo...ooo! :-, How about this one: "Life is pain. Anyone telling you (...) (25 years ago, 27-Aug-99, to lugnet.off-topic.fun)

Re: Name That Movie (Was: Misperceptions of America) —Adrian Drake

I've got the two hard ones. The rest, well, someone else can deal with it. (...) The Princess Bride. Spoken by Westley to Buttercup on top of the ravine right before they head into the Fire Swamp. The line before is "You mock my pain" spoken by (...) (25 years ago, 27-Aug-99, to lugnet.off-topic.fun)

Re: Name That Movie (Was: Misperceptions of America) —Jeff Stembel

(...) And that's a bad thing? ;) Jeff "Have fun storming the castle!" (25 years ago, 30-Aug-99, to lugnet.off-topic.fun)

Re: Misperceptions of America (Was: Conversation w/ a LEGO Rep) —Christopher L. Weeks

(...) Aliens - Ripley's talking to the WY (The Corporation) inquest about the presence of aliens on LV-426 (or whatever). Right! That's big failing of a democracy. The majority gets to dictate. (...) Is it to be taken that you want marijuana to be (...) (25 years ago, 29-Aug-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Misperceptions of America (Was: Conversation w/ a LEGO Rep) —Jeff Boen

(...) and who decides what is "just"... that is still a perception, subjective, something that can be defined by one's own opinion (or the agreed opinions of many, aka: "public opinion")... personally i think cops can start roadside executions for (...) (25 years ago, 29-Aug-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Misperceptions of America (Was: Conversation w/ a LEGO Rep) —Mike Stanley

(...) This was written in response to Ed basically saying that because "a majority" of Americans believe what Clinton did was not commit perjury (since he was lying about his sex life, I guess) that we should somehow view the fact that he DID commit (...) (25 years ago, 28-Aug-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Misperceptions of America (Was: Conversation w/ a LEGO Rep) —Christopher L. Weeks

<FH531u.BBy@lugnet.com> <37C88E50.5B325C68@eclipse.net> <FH7C2I.GF3@lugnet.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit (...) Well, I and certain other reasonable people seem to agree. Let's just go with that. :-) (...) (25 years ago, 29-Aug-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Name That Movie (Was: Misperceptions of America) —John Neal

<FH531u.BBy@lugnet.com> <37C6EE83.FBFCE338@io.com> <FH54wB.Dtp@lugnet.com> <FHA9s5.25D@lugnet.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit (...) "As you wish!" (25 years ago, 30-Aug-99, to lugnet.off-topic.fun)

Re: Name That Movie (Was: Misperceptions of America) —John DiRienzo

John Neal wrote in message <37CAA1CE.47B63F90@u...st.net>... (...) <FHA9s5.25D@lugnet.com> (...) x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" (...) it. (...) right (...) pain" (...) Inconceivable! -- Have fun! John AUCTION Page (More soon!) (URL) Page (URL) & (...) (25 years ago, 30-Aug-99, to lugnet.off-topic.fun)

Re: Name That Movie (Was: Misperceptions of America) —Jeff Stembel

(...) "You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means." Jeff Too easy, but what the heck: "Because, unlike some other Robin Hoods, I can speak with an English accent." (25 years ago, 30-Aug-99, to lugnet.off-topic.fun)

Re: Name That Movie (Was: Misperceptions of America) —Adrian Drake

<FH531u.BBy@lugnet.com> <37C6EE83.FBFCE338@io.com> <FH54wB.Dtp@lugnet.com> <FHA9s5.25D@lugnet.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit (...) Of course not, it's one of my favorites. Now what we need is (...) (25 years ago, 2-Sep-99, to lugnet.off-topic.fun)

Re: Name That Movie (Was: Misperceptions of America) —Scott Edward Sanburn

OK, here's one: "See that Armory? Run around it!" Scott S. (25 years ago, 3-Sep-99, to lugnet.off-topic.fun)

Re: Name That Movie (Was: Misperceptions of America) —James Brown

(...) Starship Troopers, one of the most liberal "let's see how huge we can make the gap between book and movie" movies out there. And on the same theme: (this one's a touch obscure) "You must move your house to the lee of the stone"(1) James (URL) (...) (25 years ago, 3-Sep-99, to lugnet.off-topic.fun)

Re: Name That Movie (Was: Misperceptions of America) —Jeff Stembel

(...) One of my Childhood Favs: 'The Secret of NIMH'. I loved that film! :) Jeff P.S. Thanks for the clue (the footnote). ;) (25 years ago, 3-Sep-99, to lugnet.off-topic.fun)

Re: Name That Movie (Was: Misperceptions of America) —Scott Edward Sanburn

James, Wow, I thought that was an obscure line. Yes, I know, I saw the movie first before reading the book, and it is very much off, but I still enjoyed it tremendously! (...) Liberal? Politically or the off-the-book? I thought it was a great (...) (25 years ago, 3-Sep-99, to lugnet.off-topic.fun)

Re: Name That Movie (Was: Misperceptions of America) —James Brown

(...) the (...) Liberal as in "a very liberal interpretation" You'll get lots of different opinions of what the book's theme is, some of them quite different (mostly, I've noticed, dependant on whether the reviewer likes Heinlein or not), but I have (...) (25 years ago, 3-Sep-99, to lugnet.off-topic.fun)

Re: Name That Movie (Was: Misperceptions of America) —Larry Pieniazek

(...) Really? I thought it was dreck. The book is a well written and thoughtful examination of what it would be like to organize a society around the principle that only those that have made a contribution to society (in the form of defense or (...) (25 years ago, 3-Sep-99, to lugnet.off-topic.fun)

Re: Name That Movie (Was: Misperceptions of America) —Scott Edward Sanburn

Interesting description, it certainly has it faults, but I still like it. I don't know why, it is just me, I guess! :) Scott S. (...) Scott E. Sanburn CADD Operator, CADD Systems Administrator Affiliated Engineers, Inc. Ann Arbor, MI Work Page: (...) (25 years ago, 3-Sep-99, to lugnet.off-topic.fun)

Re: Name That Movie (Was: Misperceptions of America) —Scott Edward Sanburn

(...) Oh, it wasn't a great movie, but I liked some of it. (Nowadays, that is all I can ask for!) I read the book after watching the movie, they are not similar. (...) As would I.... (...) Really? I did not pick the consumer part at all, the fascist (...) (25 years ago, 7-Sep-99, to lugnet.off-topic.fun)

Re: Name That Movie (Was: Misperceptions of America) —Andrew Lynch

James Brown wrote in message ... (...) of (...) I Loved "the Secret of NIMH", the book, that is. It was one of those books that I read when I was younger, and then when I tried to find it later in life, I had a devil of a time trying to find out the (...) (25 years ago, 17-Sep-99, to lugnet.off-topic.fun)

Re: Name That Movie (Was: Misperceptions of America) —Jeremy Sproat

(...) LOL I missed this post. Good movie. (...) "Mrs. Frisby and the Rats of NIMH" or something like that. Or was it "Mrs. Brisby..."? "Ms..."? I forget. Arg. I've read that book about a dozen times, too. Good read. (...) Yah, that was (...) (25 years ago, 17-Sep-99, to lugnet.off-topic.fun)

Re: Name That Movie (Was: Misperceptions of America) —Andrew Lynch

Sproaticus wrote in message <37E265B1.5FCD18E@io.com>... <snip> (...) All (...) Waterworld (...) <snip> Hmmm... Now that you mention it, I'll ( grudgingly ) have to admit that he did a good job in "Dances with Wolves". And although I liked "Robin (...) (25 years ago, 17-Sep-99, to lugnet.off-topic.fun)

Re: Misperceptions of America (Was: Conversation w/ a LEGO Rep) —Ed Jones

(...) And they both fear that the Libertarian vultures will gobble them up :') (25 years ago, 26-Aug-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Misperceptions of America (Was: Conversation w/ a LEGO Rep) —Larry Pieniazek

Ed Jones wrote (in several different posts): (...) As well they should. While the LP is derided, and rightly so, for being a bit frothy/extremist/wacko, the actual sentiment of the country as a whole, which is more important, really, than what brand (...) (25 years ago, 26-Aug-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Misperceptions of America (Was: Conversation w/ a LEGO Rep) —Ed Jones

(...) Hey, I'm still typing one handed, give me a break (sorry, the right arm is broke and ya can;t break it again - actually not broke, just unusable due to a pinched nerve) (...) Not wanting to go into the Libertarian debate of "earning your (...) (25 years ago, 26-Aug-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Misperceptions of America (Was: Conversation w/ a LEGO Rep) —Larry Pieniazek

(...) Ouch. I feel your pain. (the one good thing That Man did for this country is put that phrase into circulation) I'll give you a break. Or is that I WON'T give you a(nother) break. Whichever. (...) Because...? (...) Not me. If you think I'm (...) (25 years ago, 26-Aug-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Misperceptions of America (Was: Conversation w/ a LEGO Rep) —Simon Robinson

(...) That's not sufficient. For your point to be valid, people would not only have to give more, but would have to give at least as much more as charities get from taxes. Incidently one of the arguments in the UK (and I don't see why it shouldn't (...) (25 years ago, 27-Aug-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Misperceptions of America (Was: Conversation w/ a LEGO Rep) —Mike Stanley

(...) While all of those things may have some value, I've helped fund a great many of them myself out of my own pocket at the personal ticket-buying and donation level. All of the things you mention in the first sentence _ought_ to be funded (...) (25 years ago, 26-Aug-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Misperceptions of America (Was: Conversation w/ a LEGO Rep) —Steve Bliss

(...) Unfortunately, the country is simultaneously swinging in a "Government is the mommy to take care of me" direction. Weird things happen when a large group of people is looked at as a unified whole, which it isn't. Steve (25 years ago, 27-Aug-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Misperceptions of America (Was: Conversation w/ a LEGO Rep) —Larry Pieniazek

<FH388n.5F4@lugnet.com> <37C5D07F.B4AB98C3@voyager.net> <FH3z48.893@lugnet.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit (...) Er, technically, no. They would merely have to give enough more that the same worthy (...) (25 years ago, 27-Aug-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Misperceptions of America (Was: Conversation w/ a LEGO Rep) —Frank Filz

<FH388n.5F4@lugnet.com> <37C5D07F.B4AB98C3@voyager.net> <FH3z48.893@lugnet.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit (...) What if the voluntarily given money is more efficiently used? What if the donors also (...) (25 years ago, 27-Aug-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Misperceptions of America (Was: Conversation w/ a LEGO Rep) —Scott Edward Sanburn

(...) You might want to listen to Larry. He made several non-party common sense points. But most leftists don't have common sense, IMHO. (...) Well, Ed, both parties have "blood" on their hands, it is stupid, it is called politics 101, but don't (...) (25 years ago, 26-Aug-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Misperceptions of America (Was: Conversation w/ a LEGO Rep) —Scott Edward Sanburn

(...) Yes, I'm a cappuccino machine! :) (yes, I would like a Cafe Mocha, please!) No, I don't think it is treason, I think Adam Howard said that. I think the whole nuclear missile incident could be considered that, however. (...) It does not matter (...) (25 years ago, 26-Aug-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Misperceptions of America (Was: Conversation w/ a LEGO Rep) —Mike Stanley

(...) Me too. (25 years ago, 26-Aug-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Misperceptions of America (Was: Conversation w/ a LEGO Rep) —Mike Stanley

(...) Um, I don't know about the married (in whatever sense - legally recognized or not) men YOU know, but I know quite a few married men who have not and would not commit adultery, according to any definition, including myself. Have a lot of men (...) (25 years ago, 26-Aug-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Misperceptions of America (Was: Conversation w/ a LEGO Rep) —Christopher L. Weeks

(...) When I was a late teen, I read the results of a poll that indicated that 44% (I think) of married men acknowledged having secret extra-marital sex. There must also have been some contingent of respondents who didn't answer honestly so if the (...) (25 years ago, 28-Aug-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Misperceptions of America (Was: Conversation w/ a LEGO Rep) —Adam Howard

Ed Jones <edboxer@aol.com> wrote in message news:FH2q7r.2Cx@lugnet.com... (...) (snip) (...) do (...) relationship (...) lied. (...) the (...) treason - (...) Clinton committed two crimes: 1. He perjured himself, 2. He broke his oath of office (by (...) (25 years ago, 27-Aug-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Misperceptions of America (Was: Conversation w/ a LEGO Rep) —Jeff Boen

(...) personally i think that in itself is a naive statement... for all we know (and personally, i would expect), Hillary is *very* aware of Bill's philandering... it's the public he made the false statment to... hell, he and Hillary could very well (...) (25 years ago, 27-Aug-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Misperceptions of America (Was: Conversation w/ a LEGO Rep) —Ensio Tammi

<skip> (...) argument, (...) belt, (...) entire (...) FYI, it was Mt. Pinatubo located in mid Luzon, Philippines, which erupted in 1991. On of the most important consequnsies was that the U.S. Air Force has to leave Philippines (cause they were (...) (25 years ago, 26-Aug-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Misperceptions of America (Was: Conversation w/ a LEGO Rep) —Jeremy Sproat

(...) Well, what do you know -- it really was destroyed. The homes on the base were buried under four feet of ash. (...) Yah, I guess the Phillipinos would have rather been content with the Marcos' home-grown flavor of tyranny. (1) I know, I know, (...) (25 years ago, 26-Aug-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Misperceptions of America (Was: Conversation w/ a LEGO Rep) —Simon Robinson

(...) Uh? I can see China, Russia, India, Pakistan and Iraq. But France???? No the USA is not alone in imperialism. If you were willing to go back 30 or 40 years you could add a whole host of other countries - South Africa, the UK, Argentian, Spain, (...) (25 years ago, 27-Aug-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Misperceptions of America (Was: Conversation w/ a LEGO Rep) —Jeremy Sproat

(...) Wow, what a view! I want a house next to yours! :-, (...) Mostly real-estate holdings in the Pacific, with some other (disputed) claims in South America and the Indian Ocean. France is probably not the best example, as they're not actively (...) (25 years ago, 27-Aug-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Misperceptions of America (Was: Conversation w/ a LEGO Rep) —Lindsay Frederick Braun

(...) I will take the plexiglas windows, thank you...oh, and the armoured station wagon to go along with it... (...) Algeria? Algeria? Anyone? Bueller...? In reality, border-expansion imperialism is pretty much dead; the only way most governments (...) (25 years ago, 28-Aug-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Misperceptions of America (Was: Conversation w/ a LEGO Rep) —Simon Robinson

(...) and (...) Oooops! I guess I asked for that one. <grin> Well I can offer a small view of the sea from my upstairs window. And a few minutes walk away there's a view right across Morecambe Bay to the mountains in the Lake District, 30 miles (...) (25 years ago, 29-Aug-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Misperceptions of America (Was: Conversation w/ a LEGO Rep) —Selçuk Göre

(...) There is a message posted by me some time ago, not coincided but closely related: (URL) (25 years ago, 27-Aug-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Misperceptions of America (Was: Conversation w/ a LEGO Rep) —Ensio Tammi

Sproaticus wrote <37C57A41.F8EBB1BC@io.com>... <snip> (...) Marcos' (...) Marcos' couldn't do what he did without the support and approval of the U.S. government. Do you have any ideas what happened in the Marcos' era? (What was the country Marcos (...) (25 years ago, 27-Aug-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Misperceptions of America (Was: Conversation w/ a LEGO Rep) —Scott Edward Sanburn

(...) What problems has the U.S. generated? Examples please, not just vague generalities. What do you suggest we do? Give out more money? Apologize? What would make you feel better? Name one country that did not do anything wrong in it's history. (...) (25 years ago, 27-Aug-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Misperceptions of America (Was: Conversation w/ a LEGO Rep) —Jeremy Sproat

(...) <SARCASM MODIFIER="It's catching, isn't it? :-P"> Wow. Good idea. We can give financial aid to the really terrible governments for the people who really suffer. </SARCASM> That's kind of a cool political satire story idea. Let Michael Moore (...) (25 years ago, 27-Aug-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Misperceptions of America (Was: Conversation w/ a LEGO Rep) —Scott Edward Sanburn

(...) Ugh, I would rather buy a BEST-LOCK set! :) Scott S. -- Scott E. Sanburn CADD Operator, CADD Systems Administrator Affiliated Engineers, Inc. Ann Arbor, MI Work Page: (URL) Page: (URL) Page: (URL) more people I meet, the more I like my Lego (...) (25 years ago, 27-Aug-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Misperceptions of America (Was: Conversation w/ a LEGO Rep) —Jeremy Sproat

(...) Nor the Swiss, in whose banks he has around, what, $2 billion? But I digress. It's not as if the U.S. claimed the Phillipenes as a colony (1). The Phillipines had their own government, and Marcos didn't need permission from us to do anything. (...) (25 years ago, 27-Aug-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Misperceptions of America (Was: Conversation w/ a LEGO Rep) —Ensio Tammi

Sproaticus wrote <37C6BEB8.4F4E5E98@io.com>... <snip> (...) from (...) immediately (...) Of course U.S. government recognized the changes and has to act to stay in favor of the new leaders of the Philippines (mainly cause the location of the (...) (25 years ago, 28-Aug-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Misperceptions of America (Was: Conversation w/ a LEGO Rep) —Christopher L. Weeks

(...) That's crazy. And maybe the Filipinos would have been better off if the US had never stopped by to set up defense of their islands? As I understand it people were pretty happy when MacAurther freed them from the Empire of Japan. --Chris (25 years ago, 28-Aug-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Misperceptions of America (Was: Conversation w/ a LEGO Rep) —Mike Stanley

(...) Well, just to nit-pick, I think in order for someone to BE a felon, legally, he has to have been convicted of a felony. Clinton hasn't been convicted of anything, has he? He's admitted to lying, sorda, but he was never tried and convicted. (...) (25 years ago, 26-Aug-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Misperceptions of America (Was: Conversation w/ a LEGO Rep) —Selçuk Göre

Scott Edward Sanburn wrote in message <37C463EE.BEAF6F93@a...ng.com>... (...) out (...) Maybe (...) Billions of dollars for what? My mother's sake?.. It's bussines you know, no undeveloped country, no MARKET. Selçuk PS. The help for the last (...) (25 years ago, 27-Aug-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Misperceptions of America (Was: Conversation w/ a LEGO Rep) —Simon Robinson

In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Scott Edward Sanburn writes: Scott Well several people wanted to know why a lot of Europeans don't think much of Americans - so I thought I may as well give my impressions based on discussions I've had with people I know. (...) (25 years ago, 28-Aug-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Misperceptions of America (Was: Conversation w/ a LEGO Rep) —Mike Stanley

(...) I remember some people coming up with bogus scenarios where people might become poor "through no fault of their own" but there aren't really that many situations in which one becomes totally broke through no fault of his own. What you probably (...) (25 years ago, 28-Aug-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Misperceptions of America (Was: Conversation w/ a LEGO Rep) —Simon Robinson

Mike, (...) they (...) be (...) reasons (...) What was bogus about the scenarios? (...) No problems with that - I believe that as well. (...) OK - since you 'actually *think* about things' <grin>, can you explain exactly who the person, entity or (...) (25 years ago, 29-Aug-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Misperceptions of America (Was: Conversation w/ a LEGO Rep) —Mike Stanley

(...) If you read the threads you'd remember. No free goods, as Larry would say. One in particular, though, that stands out in my mind, is the one about the man who'd worked for a plant all his life, then suddenly the plant closes down, he finds (...) (25 years ago, 29-Aug-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Libertarianism again. —Chris Moseley

was: Re: Misperceptions of America (Was: Conversation w/ a LEGO Rep) Mike Stanley <cjc@NOSPAMnewsguy.com> wrote in (...) I can, but none of them strike me as realistic. The scenario itself seems to be more or less believable, in the sense that it (...) (25 years ago, 31-Aug-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Libertarianism again. —Mike Stanley

(...) So because a significantly significant number of people are stupid/selfish/non-f...d-thinking enough to not save ANY of their income over their entire working lives that justifies the taking of money from others to pay for their problems? (...) (25 years ago, 1-Sep-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Libertarianism again. —Larry Pieniazek

(...) Erm, technically, I think NZ is a two postage stamp country. (...) I have a bumpersticker I haven't dared put on the back of my car yet: "caution, stupid people are breeding" (25 years ago, 1-Sep-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Libertarianism again. —Mike Stanley

(...) :) (...) I'd love a copy. Didn't get it from an online vendor, did you? (25 years ago, 1-Sep-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Libertarianism again. —Chris Moseley

Larry Pieniazek <lar@voyager.net> wrote (...) "your taxes pay stupid people to breed". Perhaps we should sterilise the top and bottom 10% by wealth? Moz (25 years ago, 1-Sep-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Libertarianism again. —Chris Moseley

Mike Stanley <cjc@NOSPAMnewsguy.com> wrote (...) Yes. How we do so is the question, not whether we do it at all. Unless you have some cost-free way of removing them from society. (...) What's "yours" is vested in you by the government, and those (...) (25 years ago, 1-Sep-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Libertarianism again. —Larry Pieniazek

Ruthlessly snipped so I could snipe at a few points (...) Disagree. Whether we do it at all is INDEED the question. For those who choose not to make provisions for their future, or choose not to decide, still have made a choice. THEIR choice, THEIR (...) (25 years ago, 1-Sep-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Libertarianism again. —Simon Robinson

(...) And their children? Is it their choice as well? Are you happy for their children to grow up in poverty? (...) Blimey - what planet do you live on??? Natural monopolies are a standard recognised part of economic theory. They occur for all sorts (...) (25 years ago, 1-Sep-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Libertarianism again. —Larry Pieniazek

<37CCA9E3.7A9A326D@voyager.net> <slrn7spbr1.86u.cjc@...S.UTK.EDU> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit (...) No, I got it in San Diego at a headshop, but the name of the company is Socially Hazardous Stickers. (...) (25 years ago, 1-Sep-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Libertarianism again. —Larry Pieniazek

<37CCA9E3.7A9A326D@voyager.net> <FHDLIu.AGD@lugnet.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit (...) Troller. Stop it. Much easier than sterilization is merely to stop using taxes that way. It also has the (...) (25 years ago, 1-Sep-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Libertarianism again. —Chris Moseley

Larry Pieniazek <lar@voyager.net> wrote (...) You and me agree on that. I'd like to see all countries stop subsidising big business, especially the USA which seems to be much more attached to the idea than anyone else. But you seem to have the USA (...) (25 years ago, 4-Sep-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Libertarianism again. —Larry Pieniazek

<FHDLGC.AAv@lugnet.com> <37CD2061.1A04C593@voyager.net> <FHDzL4.2L5@lugnet.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit (...) of SOME economic theories. Just not the ones that actually work. Keynsian economics is (...) (25 years ago, 1-Sep-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Libertarianism again. —Chris Moseley

Larry Pieniazek <lar@voyager.net> wrote (...) .. (...) Larry, heed thyself. Or is simple contradiction permitted? (...) The telephone system, specifically the local loop. For the purposes of argument it will be easier if we restrict this to (...) (25 years ago, 4-Sep-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Libertarianism again. —Chris Moseley

Larry Pieniazek <lar@voyager.net> wrote (...) So tell me, how do we stop them taking what is ours by brute force, or simply degrading our environment by dying in it? Even if you don't have welfare you need some way to stop homeless people coming to (...) (25 years ago, 4-Sep-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Libertarianism again. —Larry Pieniazek

I'm on slippery ground here and I think I may trip myself up, as we have guests coming over and I only have a few mins. Forgive me for not interspersing.... To the points raised about the poor. I don't think Mike's thesis is that there will not be (...) (25 years ago, 4-Sep-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Libertarianism again. —Larry Pieniazek

<37CD5AB2.72BA98B6@voyager.net> <FHJ1Ao.D6D@lugnet.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit (...) Simon made a sweeping statement that "economics" had said X. I merely showed that not all economics did say X. (...) (25 years ago, 4-Sep-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Libertarianism again. —Scott Edward Sanburn

(...) Moz, Can you tell me what part of the Constitution or the Bill of Rights that resides in, because I can't find it. You sound just like my sister. "We have a right to a living wage." Really? Where is that at in the Constitution or Bill of (...) (25 years ago, 7-Sep-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Libertarianism again. —Chris Moseley

Scott Edward Sanburn <ssanburn@aeieng.com> wrote (...) There is no constitution, New Zealand is a monarchy. The bill of rights actually uses the word "equitable" (from memory) and of course the idea of a free country is at the heart of our desire (...) (25 years ago, 8-Sep-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Misperceptions of America (Was: Conversation w/ a LEGO Rep) —Scott Edward Sanburn

(...) I don't mind the US government helping other countries in time of need, I mind people, such as yourself, calling the US selfish because we will not finance everyone's desire. Like I said before, it is the taxpayers money, not the governments, (...) (25 years ago, 1-Sep-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Misperceptions of America (Was: Conversation w/ a LEGO Rep) —Richard Dee

On Wed, 25 Aug 1999 21:45:18 GMT, Scott Edward Sanburn uttered the following profundities... (...) UK public perception is very much anti-death penalty, due to mistakes, where the wrong person was hanged, and one particular instance when the (...) (25 years ago, 29-Aug-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Misperceptions of America (Was: Conversation w/ a LEGO Rep) —Larry Pieniazek

Don't usually agree with Richard much in the sphere of politics (although he's a good friend and very solid trader) but I have to weigh in on the anti-death-penalty side. I'm agin em because of the error factor, and because I want the criminals (...) (25 years ago, 29-Aug-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Misperceptions of America (Was: Conversation w/ a LEGO Rep) —Mike Stanley

(...) I'd go for that in Libertopia. In reality, though, prisoners can't really be "forced" to work, can they? Or is that a state by state, thing? If the choices are let the scum sit in a prison watching tv and reading books, maybe even taking (...) (25 years ago, 29-Aug-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Misperceptions of America (Was: Conversation w/ a LEGO Rep) —Simon Robinson

(...) 'let the scum sit in a prison...' ??? Not judgemental about other people at all are we! The people - and as Larry pointed out there are doubtless many - who didn't commit any crime but ended up in prison anyway because a jury incorrectly (...) (25 years ago, 29-Aug-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Misperceptions of America (Was: Conversation w/ a LEGO Rep) —Mike Stanley

(...) Yes, I am. Maybe you think it's a fault to judge other people by their actions. I don't. Let's see, what types of people do we have in prisons, for the most part? Murderers, rapists, child molesters, thieves, etc. Yep, scum. Maybe you think (...) (25 years ago, 29-Aug-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Misperceptions of America (Was: Conversation w/ a LEGO Rep) —Christopher L. Weeks

(...) And even if they are otherwise normal, so what? I say someone just like me but who has taken another human's life is substantially different and needs special handling - like restitutive incarceration. What I don't buy from Mike's opinion is (...) (25 years ago, 30-Aug-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Misperceptions of America (Was: Conversation w/ a LEGO Rep) —Mike Stanley

(...) That's one heckuva weird scenario. I probably fit into most of that as well, and I don't ever recall being put into a situation where peer pressure or anything else might have suggested that I murder someone. (...) Yep, put the kid down. (...) (...) (25 years ago, 30-Aug-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Misperceptions of America (Was: Conversation w/ a LEGO Rep) —Christopher L. Weeks

(...) What's so weird about it? Seriously. (...) Really? I got angry at people from time to time. I took myself way too seriously, and essentially plotted murder on a couple of occasions. When the littleton killings took place, I thought 'there, but (...) (25 years ago, 31-Aug-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Misperceptions of America (Was: Conversation w/ a LEGO Rep) —Mike Stanley

(...) What's so weird? The actually following through on thoughts of killing someone, I suppose. (...) I'd like to think otherwise, myself. The few times in my childhood and adult life that I have been truly angry enough to want to do physical harm (...) (25 years ago, 1-Sep-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Misperceptions of America (Was: Conversation w/ a LEGO Rep) —Larry Pieniazek

(...) Maybe in other countries. But in the US, "for the most part" what we have is drug offenders. There are more people in prison for drug offenses than there are for crimes with victims. And THAT: - is one of the reasons we have the highest per (...) (25 years ago, 31-Aug-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Misperceptions of America (Was: Conversation w/ a LEGO Rep) —Mike Stanley

(...) Yeah, I know. I think I specifically mentioned wasting tons of money on it in another post. Dunno if you and I would differ on the whole drug crimes thing or not. Drug users who don't steal, etc, don't bug me much at all. The pot smokers can (...) (25 years ago, 1-Sep-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Misperceptions of America (Was: Conversation w/ a LEGO Rep) —Chris Moseley

Mike Stanley <cjc@NOSPAMnewsguy.com> wrote (...) Larry, I believe even the USA abolished slavery some time ago. Unless you let the prisoners choose, and pay them, then you've just bought it back. (...) Frying is known to be ineffective. at least (...) (25 years ago, 30-Aug-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Misperceptions of America (Was: Conversation w/ a LEGO Rep) —Mike Stanley

(...) Hrmmm... interesting take on that opinion, I suppose. Certainly one of the ways people would try to prevent prison labor. 'Course, in my limited understanding of how prison industries work right now, the prisoners do, in fact, get paid. IMO, (...) (25 years ago, 30-Aug-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Misperceptions of America (Was: Conversation w/ a LEGO Rep) —Chris Moseley

Mike Stanley <cjc@NOSPAMnewsguy.com> wrote (...) Um, Mike, at some point crims have to say "what do I have left to lose", and there had better be something. Otherwise we're going to see a lot more dead cops at the very least. Or you let cops do a (...) (25 years ago, 31-Aug-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Misperceptions of America (Was: Conversation w/ a LEGO Rep) —Larry Pieniazek

Agree with a lot of what you say, but have to jump all over this. (...) They were no such thing and you're well aware of it. (25 years ago, 31-Aug-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Misperceptions of America (Was: Conversation w/ a LEGO Rep) —Chris Moseley

Larry Pieniazek <lar@voyager.net> wrote (...) I know :( But they had the extremes of poverty and power that are the worst problems of Libertarianism. Moz (25 years ago, 1-Sep-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Misperceptions of America (Was: Conversation w/ a LEGO Rep) —Mike Stanley

(...) Who said execution for any violation? Keep the open flames away from all that straw, please. Les Mis - seen the poster. Read some Dickens. Mostly bored with history after 479 AD. Wasn't aware that the French Revolution or any period in English (...) (25 years ago, 1-Sep-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Misperceptions of America (Was: Conversation w/ a LEGO Rep) —Larry Pieniazek

<37CBE249.ED54241B@voyager.net> <FHDLLL.AM6@lugnet.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit (...) Straw dog. Not even worthy of the straw man title. You're positing from false assumptions, then attacking your (...) (25 years ago, 1-Sep-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Misperceptions of America (Was: Conversation w/ a LEGO Rep) —Larry Pieniazek

(...) Do you mean because we'd have a situation where officials would trump up charges to enslave innocents, or are you arguing that someone guilty of a crime with a victim (who has forfeited his rights because he would not acknowledge that others (...) (25 years ago, 31-Aug-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Misperceptions of America (Was: Conversation w/ a LEGO Rep) —Chris Moseley

Larry Pieniazek <lar@voyager.net> wrote (...) That is one major problem, yes. Unless you have a 100% accurate legal system there is always the problem of compensating someone for a period of slavery. As we have discussed before, compensation relies (...) (25 years ago, 31-Aug-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Misperceptions of America (Was: Conversation w/ a LEGO Rep) —Scott Edward Sanburn

(...) Nothing is perfect, but I for one am glad when a person, who has been tried, and has appealed, is never again going to blacken someone's live by killing or raping a loved one. Scott S. (25 years ago, 3-Sep-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Misperceptions of America (Was: Conversation w/ a LEGO Rep) —Jeremy Sproat

(...) It's funny how, when the topic of state executions comes up, so does the word "black". Cheers, - jsproat (25 years ago, 3-Sep-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Misperceptions of America (Was: Conversation w/ a LEGO Rep) —Chris Moseley

Sproaticus <jsproat@io.com> wrote (...) I would not descibe it as "funny", myself. But then I live in a country where genocide is legal. Not just legal, in fact, but government policy. Sorry, I meant "not current government policy, but definitely a (...) (25 years ago, 4-Sep-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Misperceptions of America (Was: Conversation w/ a LEGO Rep) —Scott Edward Sanburn

Please, people, maybe I don't catch this stuff, but paraphrasing and hinting on a subject where some people have no clue, I think you better state, clearly, what you are talking about. Man, it is like trying to dissect what Bill Clinton is lying (...) (25 years ago, 7-Sep-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Misperceptions of America (Was: Conversation w/ a LEGO Rep) —Jeremy Sproat

(...) I can explain it for you, once we all agree upon the definition of "for". :-P It's a scary statistic that there are more, ahh, minorities on death row in the U.S. than there are, ahh, majorities. I'm hinting at the various social and economic (...) (25 years ago, 7-Sep-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Misperceptions of America (Was: Conversation w/ a LEGO Rep) —Scott Edward Sanburn

(...) Get close, get really, really close.... OK? Maybe <shrudder> there are more "minorities" committing capitol crimes than "majorities", whatever that means. (...) Is this a fact, is it somewhere on the web, or do you have references for actual (...) (25 years ago, 7-Sep-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Misperceptions of America (Was: Conversation w/ a LEGO Rep) —Larry Pieniazek

(...) c /capitol/capital/ and... Per capita, yes. But that doesn't explain the disparity in sentencing. This is one where I am with the modern Liberals. There IS something wrong. I can't explain exactly why, I have my pet theories (one I like is the (...) (25 years ago, 7-Sep-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Misperceptions of America (Was: Conversation w/ a LEGO Rep) —Jeremy Sproat

(...) But don't you ever ask *why*?!? Jeez, what, are you happy with those numbers? (...) I'm so glad you asked. :-, Grab a chair, because this will take a while. I can't speak for anyone else, but I pick on the U.S. because I live there. I really (...) (25 years ago, 7-Sep-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Misperceptions of America (Was: Conversation w/ a LEGO Rep) —John Neal

(...) But Mr President.... (...) It means that the only capitol crimes that are being committed are in the white house;-) -John (...) (25 years ago, 8-Sep-99, to lugnet.off-topic.fun)

Capital Punishment: Race issues —Scott Edward Sanburn

(...) That goes under the imperfect sentencing. I think all sentencing should be the same, regardless of race, color, etc. If it isn't, there is a problem and it should be dealt with in that manner. I am for equal punishment under the law. (...) (...) (25 years ago, 7-Sep-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Misperceptions of America (Was: Conversation w/ a LEGO Rep) —Scott Edward Sanburn

Jeremy, (...) I don't look into race numbers and statistics too much, because a good deal of people look at it way too much, IMHO. I don't care what the numbers are, frankly, like I said before, I don't care what race or color, etc. you are, if you (...) (25 years ago, 7-Sep-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Misperceptions of America (Was: Conversation w/ a LEGO Rep) —Jeremy Sproat

(...) Ignorace is a *good* platform from which to argue. You'll never lose ground from there. (...) Ah, but the topic was not in changing punishment, but rather the startling disparagy in the demographics of execution. If I were more cynical, I (...) (25 years ago, 7-Sep-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Misperceptions of America (Was: Conversation w/ a LEGO Rep) —Scott Edward Sanburn

Jeremy, (...) I have seen this argument many times, in many forms, thank you. I can ignore them know because the numbers do not tell the whole story. Just because there is a greater percentage of minorities committing crimes that have capitol (...) (25 years ago, 7-Sep-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Misperceptions of America (Was: Conversation w/ a LEGO Rep) —Jeremy Sproat

(...) What I'm saying is, is there are factors at work, probably unfair factors, which favor putting minorities under the syringe. They may be social factors, judicial factors, whatever. These need to be ferreted out and rectified. (...) But *why* (...) (25 years ago, 7-Sep-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Misperceptions of America (Was: Conversation w/ a LEGO Rep) —Selçuk Göre

Scott Edward Sanburn wrote in message <37D56E92.EE6C3ADF@a...ng.com>... (...) ground (...) IGNORE Play it again Sam..:-) (...) to (...) I don't think he intented this in anyway. (...) because (...) You're just stepping on the fact... But, DO you (...) (25 years ago, 8-Sep-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Misperceptions of America (Was: Conversation w/ a LEGO Rep) —Scott Edward Sanburn

(...) Like what? (...) I don't care what color they are. If they do the crime, pay the consequences, no matter what color of skin or what their ancestry is. (...) If they are there. (...) Lots of reasons. Why do people commit crimes? Why is the sky (...) (25 years ago, 7-Sep-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Misperceptions of America (Was: Conversation w/ a LEGO Rep) —Jeremy Sproat

(...) Yes, it matters. (...) It's simple in a homogenous culture. But our society is anything but homogenous. I'm not saying that crime is forced on anyone. But we are all, to some degree, products of our environment. I am *NOT* saying to not punish (...) (25 years ago, 7-Sep-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Misperceptions of America (Was: Conversation w/ a LEGO Rep) —Christopher L. Weeks

<37D579AE.FA77EFEA@aeieng.com> <37D57E07.BB4E2546@io.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From one point of view, I see two people facing each other and having a conversation. On the surface they seem to (...) (25 years ago, 8-Sep-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Misperceptions of America (Was: Conversation w/ a LEGO Rep) —Scott Edward Sanburn

Folks, I don't care why. Why is for endless arguments about how bad people have it, and how we need more money, more programs, etc. I don't do criminal activities, because I know it is wrong. If it is not being taught to people, minorities, etc. (...) (25 years ago, 8-Sep-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Misperceptions of America (Was: Conversation w/ a LEGO Rep) —Larry Pieniazek

Scott, I'm really sorry about this, but you're all wet. I will not debate you about the incidence of crime among various groups. It IS higher for some groups than others. Where there is an issue is in the fact that the sentences given out seem to (...) (25 years ago, 8-Sep-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Misperceptions of America (Was: Conversation w/ a LEGO Rep) —Scott Edward Sanburn

(...) I have, and I said in a few posts yesterday, thank you very much, that there should not be any dissimilar sentencing. It should all be the same, regardless of skin color, etc. Nor do I favor any lesser sentencing because you are a minority. Do (...) (25 years ago, 8-Sep-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Disparicies in Sentencing WAS:(Misperceptions of America) —Scott Edward Sanburn

Due to Larry's e-mail, and others confusion in this issue, here is where I stand. 1) If there is (I have seen a few, going either way) inconsistencies in sentencing, based on color, there should be none. I favor reform in terms of sentencing (...) (25 years ago, 8-Sep-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Disparicies in Sentencing WAS:(Misperceptions of America) —Larry Pieniazek

Thanks for the clarification Scott. So it's fair to say you don't support different sentences or discrimination. That's good. (1) Going a bit farther, how do you feel about DWB? I kind of have a problem with it. I don't think that police should be (...) (25 years ago, 9-Sep-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Voluntary, private discrimination (Was: Disparicies in Sentencing) —Jeremy Sproat

<37D6918F.6EADE205@aeieng.com> <37D720C5.F27FD776@voyager.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit (...) Amen. It just raises my ire when someone is forced into some action because some First Amendment Nazis (...) (25 years ago, 9-Sep-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Voluntary, private discrimination (Was: Disparicies in Sentencing) —Chris Moseley

Sproaticus <jsproat@io.com> wrote (...) I'm afraid I have to disagree with both of you. Take hate crimes. I do think they should be discriminated against. You fry someone for a string of 1st degree murders? OK, so do something worse for a string of (...) (25 years ago, 10-Sep-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Disparicies in Sentencing WAS:(Misperceptions of America) —Scott Edward Sanburn

(...) Hey, I am confusing to just about everyone, it is a special gift! :) (...) Yes, that is how I feel. (...) DWB- Driving While Building? Very dangerous! :) (J/K) Seriously, I don't think it is right to target anyone, at anytime, for anything, (...) (25 years ago, 9-Sep-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Voluntary, private discrimination (Was: Disparicies in Sentencing) —Christopher L. Weeks

<37D72389.74A66C33@io.com> <FHu88B.8It@lugnet.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit (...) I believe that killing abortion doctors is no worse than killing random strangers. Actually, I have rather more (...) (25 years ago, 10-Sep-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Voluntary, private discrimination (Was: Disparicies in Sentencing) —Scott Edward Sanburn

Chris, (...) What does this have to do with private institutions? (...) I am sorry, but I think hate crime legislation is very wrong. How can you hate anyone anymore than by taking his life? It it worse to kill a room full of Jewish people than a (...) (25 years ago, 10-Sep-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Voluntary, private discrimination (Was: Disparicies in Sentencing) —Chris Moseley

Scott Edward Sanburn <ssanburn@aeieng.com> wrote (...) The abortion thing is probably a better example of why hate crimes are worse than random ones. Those doctors are killed to terrify other abortionists, and so the hate part of the crime is not (...) (25 years ago, 11-Sep-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Voluntary, private discrimination (Was: Disparicies in Sentencing) —Mike Stanley

(...) Don't yet torture criminals? Are you saying that the death penalty is torture? Or are you saying something about the way prisoners are treated in the American prison system? (...) Spike Lee (and others) believe that, from what I hear. The (...) (25 years ago, 12-Sep-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Voluntary, private discrimination (Was: Disparicies in Sentencing) —Chris Moseley

Mike Stanley <cjc@NOSPAMnewsguy.com> wrote (...) Both, actually. Don't you think it's inhumane to hold the threat of death over someone, randomly giving them hope of survival then taking it away, never setting the actual execution date but always (...) (25 years ago, 12-Sep-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Voluntary, private discrimination (Was: Disparicies in Sentencing) —Larry Pieniazek

<37D72389.74A66C33@io.com> <FHu88B.8It@lugnet.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit (...) I'm not following you here, Moz. To me, when I say discrimination by a private individual, what I am referring to is (...) (25 years ago, 10-Sep-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Voluntary, private discrimination (Was: Disparicies in Sentencing) —Chris Moseley

Larry Pieniazek <lar@voyager.net> wrote (...) In that context I still think there is a boundary to be drawn. Is this a personal relationship, like friendship, or a public one, like offering haircuts? IMO anything in the public side *must* be (...) (25 years ago, 11-Sep-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Voluntary, private discrimination (Was: Disparicies in Sentencing) —Scott Edward Sanburn

All praise Larry! ;) I think we are the exact same wavelength, here, Larry, but you seem to articulate it better than I! Scott S. Larry Pieniazek wrote: <snipped Larry's excellent discussion for brevity> (25 years ago, 10-Sep-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Voluntary, private discrimination (Was: Disparicies in Sentencing) —John DiRienzo

Scott Edward Sanburn wrote in message <37D9198D.F509D002@a...ng.com>... (...) articulate it better than I! (...) I'm with you, Scott! I think all these characters really agree with Lar 100% but love to read his eloquent diatribes so much that they (...) (25 years ago, 11-Sep-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Voluntary, private discrimination (Was: Disparicies in Sentencing) —Jeremy Sproat

<37D72389.74A66C33@io.com> <FHu88B.8It@lugnet.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit (...) Whoa whoa whoa. I was talking about expression, not homicide. My right to express myself extends as far as it (...) (25 years ago, 10-Sep-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Voluntary, private discrimination (Was: Disparicies in Sentencing) —Chris Moseley

Sproaticus <jsproat@io.com> wrote (...) Expression in what way? Larry seems to mean "anything at all that is legal in any context". See my other posts :) (...) The way the law is written, I doubt it. Mostly there are big escape clauses in those (...) (25 years ago, 11-Sep-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Misperceptions of America (Was: Conversation w/ a LEGO Rep) —Scott Edward Sanburn

John, Cute, John, Really cute! :) Scott S. (...) (25 years ago, 10-Sep-99, to lugnet.off-topic.fun)

Killing (was: Re: Voluntary, private discrimination (Was: Disparicies in Sentencing)) —Christopher L. Weeks

<37D91372.E6E0B943@aeieng.com> <FHvtH0.G4z@lugnet.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit (...) I would like to hear why killing animals is hard to defend. Given what premises? --Chris (25 years ago, 11-Sep-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Killing (was: Re: Voluntary, private discrimination (Was: Disparicies in Sentencing)) —Mike Stanley

(...) Wondering if he means for food (which I'm willing to accept - it IS hard to defend in a lot of cases, although I love a good steak as much as the next guy) or for sport, as in the case of trophy hunters, which is impossible to defend, imo, or (...) (25 years ago, 12-Sep-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Killing (was: Re: Voluntary, private discrimination (Was: Disparicies in Sentencing)) —Chris Moseley

Mike Stanley <cjc@NOSPAMnewsguy.com> wrote (...) Case one: humans. Should not be killed unless obsolutely necessary. Reasons? Killing reduces happiness not just in the victim, but also in their community. And can further reduce happiness in a wider (...) (25 years ago, 12-Sep-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Killing (was: Re: Voluntary, private discrimination (Was: Disparicies in Sentencing)) —Christopher L. Weeks

(...) As you note below, your standard is that happiness is central to your philosophy. For those who disagree, their conclusions would be different. (...) Don't be silly, no 'animals' can experience unhappiness. God put them on this earth for us to (...) (25 years ago, 13-Sep-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Killing (was: Re: Voluntary, private discrimination (Was: Disparicies in Sentencing)) —John Neal

(...) Yeah, a couple of idiots who happen to be Christian and Muslim speak for God, or all of Christianity or Islam. Or maybe not. (...) Ethics 101, two wrongs don't make a right [1] -John [1] but three lefts do. (...) (25 years ago, 13-Sep-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Killing (was: Re: Voluntary, private discrimination (Was: Disparicies in Sentencing)) —Chris Moseley

Christopher Weeks <clweeks@eclipse.net> wrote (...) In a way, yes. Faced with someone in the business of murder, I have no philosophical qualms about killing them if that is the only way to stop them. Wiranto is a name that springs to mind now, (...) (25 years ago, 13-Sep-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Killing (was: Re: Voluntary, private discrimination (Was: Disparicies in Sentencing)) —Selçuk Göre

John Neal wrote in message <37DC7797.C52E5404@u...st.net>... (...) God, or all (...) Which is nonsense is in the way of belief I think. Muslim belief is based on "everything on earth and in universe", either bad or good is for human being. (...) (25 years ago, 13-Sep-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Killing (was: Re: Voluntary, private discrimination (Was: Disparicies in Sentencing)) —Christopher L. Weeks

<37DC6E8E.6E78EEF4@eclipse.net> <FHztB9.Lx5@lugnet.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit (...) I agree, but while you value happiness, others value (human) life. (...) Here in the US, not quite so (...) (25 years ago, 13-Sep-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Voluntary, private discrimination (Was: Disparicies in Sentencing) —Christopher L. Weeks

<37D91476.CE6058F6@voyager.net> <FHvuvH.H9D@lugnet.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit (...) Taxes are pretty public. Should they be nondiscriminatory? (...) Arguably, speeding isn't a crime since there (...) (25 years ago, 11-Sep-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Voluntary, private discrimination (Was: Disparicies in Sentencing) —Larry Pieniazek

<37D9198D.F509D002@aeieng.com> <FHwp1p.2Kn@lugnet.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit (...) A lot of the readership here is convinced I am delusional. Don't make it worse! I doubt very much that your (...) (25 years ago, 11-Sep-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Crazy Larry (was: Re: Voluntary, private discrimination (Was: Disparicies in Sentencing)) —Christopher L. Weeks

(...) What evidence do you have of that? I've not heard a public claim to that effect. I think John's wrong too. I don't agree with you 100% because you're too moderate. Sincerely, Chris (25 years ago, 13-Sep-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Voluntary, private discrimination (Was: Disparicies in Sentencing) —Scott Edward Sanburn

Chris, (...) You totally dodged my question! Is killing a person an example of total hatred or not? So it is better to kill someone that you don't "hate"? Crimes are crimes, and as far as I am concerned, crimes are an example of hatred, period. (...) (25 years ago, 13-Sep-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Voluntary, private discrimination (Was: Disparicies in Sentencing) —Naji Norder

(I've snipped a lot here and there.) (...) I've read and heard so much about soldiers being able to "kill without thought" that I can't agree with this completely. If you don't have any morals, then you might not have to "hate" to kill. I'm not (...) (25 years ago, 13-Sep-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Voluntary, private discrimination (Was: Disparicies in Sentencing) —Mike Stanley

(...) Hrmmm.... I'm a soldier (was, anyway) and I don't think of myself as being able to kill without thought. Kill without hesitation, if the situation requires it, but certainly not without thought. Killing's a horrible thing, no matter how much a (...) (25 years ago, 13-Sep-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Voluntary, private discrimination (Was: Disparicies in Sentencing) —Chris Moseley

I'm answering, even though you adressed this the Chris Weeks: Scott Edward Sanburn <ssanburn@aeieng.com> wrote (...) No. It is not, and can never be. Simply killing someone is barely scratching the surface of hatred. (...) IMO, yes. "I kill you with (...) (25 years ago, 14-Sep-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Voluntary, private discrimination (Was: Disparicies in Sentencing) —Larry Pieniazek

<37DD088D.9D2803F1@aeieng.com> <FI07E8.I3A@lugnet.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit (...) me too (...) Agreed. I think constitutional amendments are needed for LARGE issues (like giving the vote to (...) (25 years ago, 13-Sep-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Voluntary, private discrimination (Was: Disparicies in Sentencing) —Scott Edward Sanburn

(...) Just to clarify, I was speaking of just citizenry, and everyday life. The military and soldiers is a totally different arena. The military trains you not to feel "bad" about killing people, it is one of your duties, if you are ordered so. (...) (25 years ago, 13-Sep-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Voluntary, private discrimination (Was: Disparicies in Sentencing) —Mike Stanley

(...) Heh, that's a helluva understatement. Rather than say the military trains soldiers not to feel "bad" about killing the enemy (they're not people), I'd say we were trained to enjoy, even long for doing it. Luckily, a lot of that brainwashing (...) (25 years ago, 13-Sep-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Voluntary, private discrimination (Was: Disparicies in Sentencing) —Scott Edward Sanburn

(...) I must imagine so. I just wanted to make certain that killing a person is totally different when you are a soldier, and that they have training for that. I have the highest regards for the armed services, I am glad they are there! Murder is (...) (25 years ago, 13-Sep-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Voluntary, private discrimination (Was: Disparicies in Sentencing) —Jeremy Sproat

(...) that. (...) legally, (...) I hope you can see just how stupid-sounding what you just said was. Murder is okay when done at the command of a military officer, but not okay when otherwise? Morality doesn't play into this at all; you just obey (...) (25 years ago, 13-Sep-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Voluntary, private discrimination (Was: Disparicies in Sentencing) —Mike Stanley

(...) I certainly don't think he meant to say that, although I can see how you might read it into it. Still, killing the enemy in wartime is not murder. Shooting helpless women and children in Vietnamese villages is murder, though, no matter who (...) (25 years ago, 14-Sep-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Voluntary, private discrimination (Was: Disparicies in Sentencing) —Christopher L. Weeks

(...) I disagree, depending on circumstances. (And so do you, sort of.) Shooting helpless whomever is immoral if they're no threat. What if letting them live will allow them to further contribute to the infrastructure of war against your side? Kill (...) (25 years ago, 14-Sep-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Voluntary, private discrimination (Was: Disparicies in Sentencing) —Jeremy Sproat

(...) They would justify it to themselves. From their point of view, you're part of the problem. Of course, you're perfectly justified -- from your end -- in defending yourself in any way you can. (...) You do have the right to withdraw at any time (...) (25 years ago, 14-Sep-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Voluntary, private discrimination (Was: Disparicies in Sentencing) —Chris Moseley

Mike Stanley <cjc@NOSPAMnewsguy.com> wrote (...) Mike, while I don't want to get into a debate with you about military service in general, the issue of "who is the enemy" is a very fuzzy one, and at various times all sorts of people have been (...) (25 years ago, 14-Sep-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Voluntary, private discrimination (Was: Disparicies in Sentencing) —Mike Stanley

(...) Yup. And sometimes it's crystal clear. (...) Guess that depends on your perspective. They'd say yes, I'd say no, you'd probably agree with me. (...) In most cases, yes. And in most cases, obeying is almost a reflex. But there have been some (...) (25 years ago, 14-Sep-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Voluntary, private discrimination (Was: Disparicies in Sentencing) —Naji Norder

(...) crime (...) close. (...) I -did- hear this one on the news.. It was on National Public Radio News the other morning. It likely didn't make your local news, though. It didn't make ours either, but then, if it did, they would have to cut some of (...) (25 years ago, 13-Sep-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Voluntary, private discrimination (Was: Disparicies in Sentencing) —Mike Stanley

(...) Yeah, if it isn't football or some part of the local government badmouthing or suing another part, we pretty much don't hear about it. I didn't hear about this either. I don't listen to NPR, though. Can you get the over the net? -- The parts (...) (25 years ago, 13-Sep-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Voluntary, private discrimination (Was: Disparicies in Sentencing) —Scott Edward Sanburn

(...) Interesting, I have the same feeling about most of what you utter as well. Anyway, lets look into it. (...) That is one of the things that the military expects from you. If you don't like it, don't be in the military. Murder, whether at war, (...) (25 years ago, 15-Sep-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Voluntary, private discrimination (Was: Disparicies in Sentencing) —Larry Pieniazek

OK, who "lost"(1) this debate? Scott because he officially said the word "Nazi" first, or Sproat, who mentioned "Nurenburg Defense" which, although it does not explicitly contain the word, is clearly related? If it wasn't Sproat (judges, do we have (...) (25 years ago, 15-Sep-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Voluntary, private discrimination (Was: Disparicies in Sentencing) —John DiRienzo

Larry Pieniazek wrote in message <37DFA51E.EF0A5623@v...er.net>... (...) That was a cheap trick on Sproat's part. Without actually coming out and saying it, he got Scott to say it. So its cheating, no doubt about it, and Sproat loses (anyway, I (...) (25 years ago, 15-Sep-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Voluntary, private discrimination (Was: Disparicies in Sentencing) —Jeremy Sproat

<37DF8CDA.DA847F05@aeieng.com> <37DFA51E.EF0A5623@voyager.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit (...) I agree. I'll bite. :-, (...) Well, sure, I mentioned the Nuremburg Defense, true, but! It was well (...) (25 years ago, 15-Sep-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Voluntary, private discrimination (Was: Disparicies in Sentencing) —Scott Edward Sanburn

Sproaticus wrote: <snipped how Jeremy is so pleased with himself> Whatever. I thought about responding to this inane reply, but why bother? I certainly think you dodged around enough of my points, and threw in irrelevant items that had nothing to do (...) (25 years ago, 16-Sep-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Voluntary, private discrimination (Was: Disparicies in Sentencing) —Larry Pieniazek

(...) Just trying to inject a little levity, Scott, which Sproat riffed on. I wouldn't interpret that post as anything other than as a response to me, so if you want to be annoyed, be annoyed at me. As to the more substantive issues, hey I like to (...) (25 years ago, 16-Sep-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Voluntary, private discrimination (Was: Disparicies in Sentencing) —Scott Edward Sanburn

(...) Larry, I don't think you could ever really annoy me, I have been saying go Larry to much on your responses, even with the pink elephants. :) (...) Oh, it does go around. I get frustrated with unnecessary tangents, ones in which Jeremy seems to (...) (25 years ago, 16-Sep-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

t7po autopick —Larry Pieniazek

<37E1178D.C32F22F5@aeieng.com> <37E11F18.DD7E06BF@voyager.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit (...) c /unaswered/unanswered/ do NOT c/unaswered/unassward/ although my t7po does phonetically sounds like (...) (25 years ago, 16-Sep-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, lugnet.off-topic.fun)

(canceled) —Jeremy Sproat

Re: Voluntary, private discrimination (Was: Disparicies in Sentencing) —Scott Edward Sanburn

(...) I TRY to make it shorter. :) (...) I agree as well. (...) Oh, come on, Larry, I am not that bad, am I? ;) (...) Yes, I agree also. (...) I agree with the public schools and mandated prayer (not good), having a moment of silence or whatever is (...) (25 years ago, 13-Sep-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Voluntary, private discrimination (Was: Disparicies in Sentencing) —John DiRienzo

(...) into (...) read (...) kids! Spoken like a true conservative! Bash those liberals! Hey, just think, as long as those "left-wing tree-hugging environmentalist wackos" wear their free rubbers and don't use dirty needles everything will be all (...) (25 years ago, 13-Sep-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Voluntary, private discrimination (Was: Disparicies in Sentencing) —Scott Edward Sanburn

Just doing my part, John! :) Scott S. (...) My constant enjoyment of life! (...) Yeah, it will just be peachy! :) (...) Here's another one: "Doing my part to enrage the atheist left." Have a great day! (25 years ago, 15-Sep-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Misperceptions of America (Was: Conversation w/ a LEGO Rep) —Scott Edward Sanburn

Uh, I was not mentioning someone race, Sproaticus, or whatever name you are! That is totally different. Have you lost someone to a murderer? Wouldn't you say your feelings were nuked, or devastated, or whatever term you want to insert! Get a clue! (...) (25 years ago, 7-Sep-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Misperceptions of America (Was: Conversation w/ a LEGO Rep) —Jeremy Sproat

(...) But the topic does come up, regardless. I'm just a catalyst here... BTW, my name's in my .signature. (...) Different? Sure. Totally? Nah. Sure, I've lost someone to murder. I've lost someone to heart disease. I've lost someone to incredibly (...) (25 years ago, 7-Sep-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

What Americans think of Europeans (was Re: Conversation w/ a LEGO Rep) —Christopher L. Weeks

(...) Well, I for one, am glad that you are there. First, you maintain some very nice tourist spots for us. That might be the most important role that Europe plays. I know that sounds trite, but what I really mean is...the way the US works (and (...) (25 years ago, 28-Aug-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: What Americans think of Europeans (was Re: Conversation w/ a LEGO Rep) —Eric Joslin

In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Christopher L. Weeks writes: <snip the milder stuff> (...) <Blink, Blink> Man, I hope this was meant as a troll. eric (25 years ago, 28-Aug-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: What Americans think of Europeans (was Re: Conversation w/ a LEGO Rep) —Christopher L. Weeks

(...) Why...which part? --Chris (25 years ago, 28-Aug-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: What Americans think of Europeans (was Re: Conversation w/ a LEGO Rep) —Eric Joslin

(...) Uh, the whole thing? Because the parts that weren't offensive (ie, "killing Nips") were just moronic (ie, "driving out all the most productive people"). I found the insinuation that Europeans are a good market for American products and (...) (25 years ago, 28-Aug-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: What Americans think of Europeans (was Re: Conversation w/ a LEGO Rep) —Christopher L. Weeks

(...) Apparently the tone of the note was misleading. You say that "killing Nips" is offensive. Do you mean that doing so is offensive, or that using that phrase is? I agree that doing so is in modern context. The phrase on the other hand is an (...) (25 years ago, 29-Aug-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: What Americans think of Europeans (was Re: Conversation w/ a LEGO Rep) —Gregor Benedikt Rochow

(...) It was "ostracized all of your most productive and thinking people and sent them away". Very true; if you use your head for a living or are planning on it (i.e. this starts at the college-entrance level), the move from Europe to the US (...) (25 years ago, 30-Aug-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Conversation w/ a LEGO Rep —Richard Dee

On Wed, 25 Aug 1999 01:32:55 GMT, Jesse Long uttered the following profundities... (...) An American using the word "black." I thought that label was banned? The US is not alone in having race problems. The Metropolitan Police (London police) have (...) (25 years ago, 29-Aug-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Conversation w/ a LEGO Rep —Mike Stanley

(...) Banned? I musta missed that notice. I know some people prefer African-American, but I sure don't. Most black people I know use black. (...) Yeah, I just saw a story on CNN about all the seemingly racist talk going on in Norway right now during (...) (25 years ago, 29-Aug-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Conversation w/ a LEGO Rep —Mike Stanley

Reply-To: cjc@newsguy.com Followup-To: (...) Because they see us as being from a country without much history at all compared to some of theirs. And because that same history-less country has rendered a great many of them irrelevant and/or (...) (25 years ago, 25-Aug-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Conversation w/ a LEGO Rep —Larry Pieniazek

(...) They resent the fact that we saved their bacon, twice, for free. (25 years ago, 25-Aug-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Conversation w/ a LEGO Rep —Scott Edward Sanburn

Amen, Larry. :) Scott S. (...) (25 years ago, 27-Aug-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Conversation w/ a LEGO Rep —Christopher L. Weeks

(...) Not the Germans. We didn't save their bacon. And now that I'm thinking about it, Germans are never the ones complaining about the US...How does that work? US GIs in WWII report that after liberating towns in Italy and France that were badly (...) (25 years ago, 28-Aug-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Conversation w/ a LEGO Rep —Jeremy Sproat

(...) Aw, he's jus' yanking yer chain, cousin. (...) Yep! By virtue of military superiority, if anything else. (...) 'Cause we're extremely arrogant. Even more so than the French, and possibly even the Dutch. Cheers, - jsproat (25 years ago, 25-Aug-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Conversation w/ a LEGO Rep —Ensio Tammi

<skip> (...) Try to explain to an European what the creationists are doing right now in the Kansas, for example? We have to go centuries back when church (religion) has such a power here (at least in the Northern Europe). How bout the late shooting (...) (25 years ago, 26-Aug-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Conversation w/ a LEGO Rep —Jeremy Sproat

Maybe I'm just having a bad day... (...) huh? What, growing wheat? It's a disgrace, I know, but SOMEONE has to rake in the big bucks... (...) Such a shame. The world is much more flavorful when you mix in a good dosage of religion with secularism. (...) (25 years ago, 26-Aug-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Conversation w/ a LEGO Rep —Ensio Tammi

Sproaticus wrote <37C57D80.330C3CEB@io.com>... <snip> (...) My point was the really young age. Nowhere (alltough I don't have any hard facts) is the number of murders done by young ones so high than in U.S. You should really ask yourself what's (...) (25 years ago, 27-Aug-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Conversation w/ a LEGO Rep —Jeremy Sproat

(...) Who says I don't ask myself what's going on? It's true, the young age of these killers is tragic. How much more tragic do you want it to be? Would you prefer the killers who go uncaptured for years? Give me one kid who blows up and burns out (...) (25 years ago, 27-Aug-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Conversation w/ a LEGO Rep —Ensio Tammi

Sproaticus wrote <37C6B434.B9FCA361@io.com>... <snip> (...) So you are aiming to the "next-best" solution. How bout if your neighbour is aiming to the "next-best" of the "next-best" solution and so on ... ??? So "rights" has to be equal. (...) (25 years ago, 28-Aug-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Conversation w/ a LEGO Rep —Jeremy Sproat

(...) Okay, I've read this several times over, and I'm afraid that your elusive language, while obviously passionate and not without a hint of poetry, has gotten the best of me. In other words, huh? Cheers, - jsproat (25 years ago, 27-Aug-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Conversation w/ a LEGO Rep —John Neal

I hope that Ensio is not implying that we Midwesterners are 100 years behind CA et al and the East Coast! I know Buddy Holly is just catching here, but hey, *that's* a little extreme! -John "backwater" Neal (...) (25 years ago, 29-Aug-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Conversation w/ a LEGO Rep —Jeff Boen

(...) heheehe... "music's just gone straight to hell since Buddy Holly died!" (name that movie!) J (25 years ago, 29-Aug-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Conversation w/ a LEGO Rep —Jeremy Sproat

(...) Aliens! Well, statistically speaking, that's the best answer anyway... :-P Cheers, - jsproat (25 years ago, 29-Aug-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Conversation w/ a LEGO Rep —Christopher L. Weeks

(...) How many Serbs under the age of 15 have shot people? My guess is that you'll find a higher percent than in the US. We have petty little school yard violence and you act like it's a major rash. We're mostly not arming our youth to go kill (...) (25 years ago, 28-Aug-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Conversation w/ a LEGO Rep —Jeremy Sproat

(...) I have to contest this statement. I went through a pretty tough school in New Jersey, where I had friends affected by two in-school fatalities in one year. No meteor deaths, though it could've been a quiet season. (...) Absolutely true. You (...) (25 years ago, 28-Aug-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Conversation w/ a LEGO Rep —Simon Robinson

(...) Cor! Is that what the US press is saying about us? Where's this civil war that's being run by hackers then? Can I join in? :) Simon (URL) (25 years ago, 29-Aug-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Conversation w/ a LEGO Rep —Jeremy Sproat

(...) Nope. Not till you change your name to K001 $1M0n PhReAk R0b1n$0n and brag about hacking the mainframe computers for at least 150 first-world nations and implanting y2k coputer virii into their Web pages... Cheers, - jsproat (25 years ago, 29-Aug-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Conversation w/ a LEGO Rep —Christopher L. Weeks

(...) A) Your anecdote is poor small sample statistics. Just because your school in Jersey was blessed by the holy mother of magnetic umbrellae doesn't mean that applies to the whole of the US. B) I heard that "statistic" a couple weeks ago at a (...) (25 years ago, 29-Aug-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Conversation w/ a LEGO Rep —Richard Dee

On Wed, 25 Aug 1999 01:18:12 GMT, Adam Howard uttered the following profundities... (...) <snip> "Yank" is the common, global reference to Americans. You should here the Strine rhyming slang for Americans, "Septic Tank." :o) (...) <snipped quote of (...) (25 years ago, 29-Aug-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Conversation w/ a LEGO Rep —Christopher L. Weeks

(...) Why not just buy them on the net from a US discount vendor? (...) And rightly so. Many of us agree with those sentiments. --Chris (25 years ago, 29-Aug-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Conversation w/ a LEGO Rep —Adam Howard

Richard Dee <richard.dee@virgin.net> wrote in message news:MPG.1231ab1ddc6...net.com... (...) New (...) I know :( I wish we could change that, but it would take one heck of a lot of re-education. But the insult remains the same. I don't think (...) (25 years ago, 29-Aug-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Conversation w/ a LEGO Rep —Frank Filz

(...) Goes back to the revolutionary war at least. A quick Altavista search turned up a couple possibilities: (URL) Frank Filz ---...--- Work: mailto:ffilz@us.ibm.com Home: mailto:ffilz@mindspring.com (25 years ago, 30-Aug-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Conversation w/ a LEGO Rep —Anders Isaksson

Steve Bliss skrev i meddelandet <37c15dc5.5818575@lu...et.com>... (...) Boy, are you being robbed, we only have to pay ca: 1.05 USD/liter ;-( (And how much does a new Volvo cost for you?) -- Anders Isaksson, Sweden BlockCAD: (2 URLs) (25 years ago, 24-Aug-99, to lugnet.general)

Re: Conversation w/ a LEGO Rep —Steve Bliss

(...) You win. (...) Nothing--I can't afford a new Volvo, so I'm not buying one. Umm, poking around their website, one number that springs up is 33K-USD, or more. That's for a C70. Steve (25 years ago, 25-Aug-99, to lugnet.general)

Re: Conversation w/ a LEGO Rep —Gary R. Istok

Hey Tom, Thanks - I've been trying to remember the toy store name where I got the large number of London Bus and Lear Jet sets back in the 1980's. It was KB Toys, the toy Liquidator! (I don't think they have Detroit area stores any more.) That (...) (25 years ago, 23-Aug-99, to lugnet.general)