Subject:
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Re: Voluntary, private discrimination (Was: Disparicies in Sentencing)
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Newsgroups:
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lugnet.off-topic.debate
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Date:
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Mon, 13 Sep 1999 14:22:05 GMT
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Viewed:
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2078 times
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Chris,
"Moz (Chris Moseley)" wrote:
> The abortion thing is probably a better example of why hate crimes are worse
> than random ones.
You totally dodged my question! Is killing a person an example of total hatred
or not? So it is better to kill someone that you don't "hate"? Crimes are
crimes, and as far as I am concerned, crimes are an example of hatred, period.
Making hate crime legislation is nice in theory, not sound in law, or the
Constitution.
> Those doctors are killed to terrify other abortionists,
How about gang killings? Maybe the gang that committed the murder should be
tried for hating the other rival gang. What a horrible legal path to go down.
> and so the hate part of the crime is not necessarily against the dead person,
The hate part is killing a person, period. How can it be worse?
> but against all other members of that class.
Gee, I didn't know their was a abortionist class.
> And should be prosectued as such.
Totally disagree. I do not like leftists. If I despise leftists, and kill a
leftist, should I prosecuted for despising leftists or killing leftists? Being
tried because I think is a form of being chased after the thought police.
> Call it a banned form of communication, if that makes it easier for you to
> see the second crime.
I don't see a crime in thinking thoughts, sorry.
>
> > It maybe naive to be racist, sexist, etc. but it is not prosecutable.
>
> No, of course not.
But that is what you are saying, isn't it? Oh, he hates X, and he killed X, so
let's try him for hating X and killing X.
> Only deeds can be prosecuted. *act* in a racist way and I
> don't think you should be allowed to say "oh, but I'm not the govt so it's OK".
Give me an example of acting in a racist way.
> Depends on your country. In the USA perhaps they should hold the inmate on
> death row for longer. Sentence them to 10 years on the row, then death.
What, so you can live in a hotel room for 10 years, live the good live at
taxpayers expense, and then you might get executed? That is punishment?
> In countries that don't yet torture criminals
Torture criminals? Have you ever been in a US prison lately? The last time I
went to visit one, it looked more like a Sheraton than a hotel room. I would
hate to see real torture, such as the jails in the Middle East and such.
> I gave two examples, what more do you want? Any government is restricted in its
> powers, should it be allowed to hire people to do those things. Take genocide.
> Few governments are allowed to organise that, but should they be allowed to
> hire mercenaries to do it for them?
<sarcasm>
Oh, yes, the US has a long history of hiring mercenaries to carry out genocide.
</sarcasm>
> Take a simpler example. The USA govt is not supposed to be racist (don't laugh,
> that *is* the law.)
I don't laugh because it is the law.
> Should they be allowed to, say, appoint a non-governmental
> manager whose job is to create and manage racially segregated public transport?
Who would ever do this, and who would ride it? Talk about limiting your market!
Ignorant business move, but I am sure you have a specific example of this, huh?
> I mean, the government wouldn't be doing anything racist directly.
Who would do this? I am really missing this point, I guess. Hence the name,
PUBLIC transportation.
> > Rude? Gosh, I know about 190 cashiers around the Michigan area that can be tried
> > then! Discrimination against Americans!
>
> You mean they're polite to foreigners?
No, I was talking about your example of being rude to Slovaks or something.
Being rude is not against the law. Tasteless, maybe, not against the law.
> Whatever gave you that idea? Do you think racism can only be directed against minorities
> or something?
Uh, most hate crime legislation and the like is specifically written for
minority discrimination only. That is my whole point. According to the law, it
is OK to discriminate against white people, I.E. affirmative action, but it is
not OK to discriminate against minorities. Hate crimes are never mentioned in a
black person killing a white person, it is OK, because the black person may have
been poor, or whatever. That is what is so bogus about it. Hate crime
legislation is a poorly written law, that should be taken off the books.
> Killing animals is ethically hard to defend in most cases, but I think there are
> gradations of naughtyness involved. I don't think it's enough to say "you killed,
> you must die", and ignore everything else involved.
Where did killing animals get into this? That is a whole other subject!
Scott S.
--
Scott E. Sanburn
CADD Operator, CADD Systems Administrator
Affiliated Engineers, Inc. Ann Arbor, MI
Work Page:
http://www.aeieng.com/
Home Page:
http://www.geocities.com/~legoguy712/index.html
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