Subject:
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Re: Misperceptions of America (Was: Conversation w/ a LEGO Rep)
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Newsgroups:
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lugnet.off-topic.debate
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Date:
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Sat, 28 Aug 1999 01:56:40 GMT
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Viewed:
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1850 times
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In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Scott Edward Sanburn writes:
Scott
Well several people wanted to know why a lot of Europeans don't
think much of Americans - so I thought I may as well give my
impressions based on discussions I've had with people I know.
That doesn't necessarily mean I agree with all those impressions,
although I am sympathetic to most of them.
Nevertheless, a couple of points in your reply that caught my eye:
<lots of snips>
> Um, we only give out billions of dollars every year to our allies, we send • out
> millions of dollars in aid (private and public funds) and we are greedy? • Maybe
> the American taxpayer is sick and tired of spending billions of dollars
> overseas, with receiving hostile and even insulting messages back.
So if you felt that other people were more appreciative would that make a
difference?
Is is possible there's a vicious circle in which Americans people don't want
to
do things in other countries *because* they don't feel it's appreciated,
while people
in other countries still moan about Americans *because* they see Americans
moaning whenever the US Government does something to help another country?
> > of guns being everywhere because Americans expect the right to have them.
> Please, Please, Please read our Constitution, would you?!?!?!? This is the
> biggest misperception in the universe. Under the second amendment of the
> Constitution, "gives the citizens of the United States the right to bear • arms."
> We don't expect it, we were given it by the Founding Fathers.
I don't see your point. I suggested that the fact that US citizens expect to
be able
to carry guns gives a poor impression to other people. How is the fact that
the
US Constitution says that going to make a difference? If something is wrong
(in either moral or practical terms), then it doesn't become right just
because it's
written down somewhere.
> Of American churches distorting
> the Christian message into a right wing propaganda tool.
> So, if a church has right wing members, it is a crime or something? Is
> being a
> right-winger wrong, just because I have a different worldly view than
> certain
> left wing socialists, liberals, communists, marxists, etc.?
No of course there's nothing wrong with a church having right wing members.
And there's nothing wrong in principle with churches who feel that attention
needs to be drawn to certain political issues from airing their point of
view.
But there is a point where I start to hear church leaders announcing that
being a good Christian means you have to support a certain political party
where I personally start to get very uneasy.
> There are lots of liberal socialist left-wing churches in America as well.
> But I
> am sure you wouldn't know that, either. Distorting the Christian message?
> How?
> Do you have examples? Please be specific.
So how come we never hear of the liberal churches getting involved in
politics either?
Are you saying that is due to the European media filtering that out?
For 'distorting the Christian message' - I suspect we're going to disagree
on what
the Christian message really is here. I would say it carries a VERY strong
element
of social justice. Christ's lifestyle involved a lot of redistribution to
the poor. (Interestingly
it didn't appear to contain any element of moaning about high taxes:) ). And
I can't recall
anything in the Bible about how Christians had to carry guns.
> > But when it
> > comes to politics, it's different. I've seen debates here on lugnet,
> > where
> > many Americans are saying about how they don't want to pay any taxes.
> > In the political culture in America, I guess that sounds reasonable. But
> > seen from a European perspective those postings just make you
> > look incredibly selfish.
> Just because spending taxpayers money on socialized programs does not mean
> it is
> being generous to the "poor". Do you know that 7 out of every 10 dollars
> that
> goes into the U.S. Welfare programs goes to run it, the bureaucracy? Is
> this
> compassion? Selfish?
If you are concerned that the money is not being spent efficiently, then
that is
potentially a valid concern. In that case I guess you'd be campaigning and
arguing for the Government to become more efficient. BUT - in that
debate we had on lugnet a few weeks ago about taxes I don't remember
many people making that point. I do remember a lot of people from the USA
arguing that basically they didn't want to pay taxes for this because they
didn't want to help the poor anyway. The main justification appeared to be
the rather dubious assumption that if you're poor that must mean you're
a scrounger and don't deserve to be helped -
something for which no evidence was presented. When I cited possible reasons
why someone might become poor through no fault of their own, everyone
went strangely silent! So I
think my point about giving the *impresssion* (whether or not
that is actually true) of being selfish is valid - certainly for that
debate.
> You only have shown me some people's misperceptions on America, offended • me, no,
> I am used to leftists saying how evil America is, but mostly from America
> itself. I see their opinions are international, which to me, is very sad.
:(
Well you'll have to demonstrate in these discussions what a great country
the USA
really is then <grin>. I've spent two weeks in the states so far. I'd be
quite interested
in staying there for longer to get more of an idea of what life is like
there. I'm sure
one day I'll get the chance to do so.
Simon
http://www.SimonRobinson.com
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