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Color Change - Final Update — Jake McKee     You’d think I would have learned my lesson by now about the color change and just taken refuge in a concrete bunker. Nope, not that bright I think! I come to you with a final update, and some good news, as well as bad. Bad news first – After much (...) (20 years ago, 5-May-04, to lugnet.general, lugnet.announce, lugnet.lego) !!                 Re: Color Change - Final Update —Mike Kollross       (snippage) (...) 9 volt track is a must. How about releasing different track geometry at the same time. If you are going to make a special run any way.... Mike (20 years ago, 5-May-04, to lugnet.general, lugnet.lego)                    Re: Color Change - Final Update —Scott Lyttle         (...) Here's a thought...make the current 9V track with the "old" dark gray. Any new track geometries---make them the "NEW" Gray. Result--those who want new track geometries will eventually wind up filtering into new gray colors...and you can easily (...) (20 years ago, 5-May-04, to lugnet.general, lugnet.lego)                        Re: Color Change - Final Update —Ondrew Hartigan         (...) I don't want to start a flam war but using color to identify track geometry is probably a bad idea. This is mostly because it breaks up the continuity at least in a color sense. A better solution would be to mold an identifying mark on the (...) (20 years ago, 6-May-04, to lugnet.general, lugnet.lego)                        Re: Color Change - Final Update —Tim Courtney         (...) I think it would be funnier if we started a FRAM war. Build weapons from the products of our favorite generic auto parts manufacturer, and blast the poop out of each other. ;-) -Tim (20 years ago, 6-May-04, to lugnet.off-topic.fun)                        Re: Color Change - Final Update —Maggie Cambron           (...) Or a flan war. Of course food fights tend to get messy. ;-) Maggie C. (20 years ago, 6-May-04, to lugnet.off-topic.fun)                        Re: Color Change - Final Update —Dave Schuler           (...) I propose a FRAME war, in which the opposing sides smash pictures over their opponents' heads. I see great opportunity for Covert Photo Ops. Dave! (20 years ago, 6-May-04, to lugnet.off-topic.fun)                            Re: Color Change - Final Update —Ley Ward           (...) But, he said 'flam war', which sounds to me like drummers battling over rudiments(1), which should quickly descend into the throwing of sticks, cymbals, etc. Highly entertaining...;-) Peace and percussion, Professor Whateverly (1) Do look up (...) (20 years ago, 6-May-04, to lugnet.off-topic.fun)                            Re: Color Change - Final Update —Dave Schuler             (...) Ah, yes--invoking the cymbals of war to drum up a little spirit. How could I forget? Dave! (20 years ago, 6-May-04, to lugnet.off-topic.fun)                                Re: Color Change - Final Update —Bruce Schlickbernd             (...) Sticking it to him with cymbalic logic to drum a little sense into the thick skin stretched over his head? These puns have to be done properly, you know. -->Bruce<-- (20 years ago, 6-May-04, to lugnet.off-topic.pun)                                Re: Color Change - Final Update —Dave Schuler             (...) Yes, sorry. I always get caught in that snare--I hadn't considered the re-percussions of my hasty posting. Dave! (20 years ago, 6-May-04, to lugnet.off-topic.pun)                                Re: Color Change - Final Update —Ley Ward             (...) Yes, one must beware of traps. ;-) Peace and paradiddles, Professor Whateverly (20 years ago, 6-May-04, to lugnet.off-topic.pun)                            Re: Color Change - Final Update —David Laswell           (...) Maybe he meant to type "fflam war", which would also be of the musical variety, but waged between the musician and his harp. (20 years ago, 6-May-04, to lugnet.off-topic.fun)                        Re: Color Change - Final Update —Ondrew Hartigan           (...) doh! lol ondrew (20 years ago, 7-May-04, to lugnet.off-topic.fun)                        Re: Color Change - Final Update —Scott Lyttle         (...) I call dibbs on the Truck and Bus filters! (Coming from somebody who has worked in the auto manufacturing business and has been to the Fleetguard facility where they make filters). Scott P.S. If you've never seen a Truck or Bus oil (...) (20 years ago, 7-May-04, to lugnet.off-topic.fun)                    Re: Color Change - Final Update —William R. Ward       (...) I think 9V track should NEVER be made in New Dark Grey. If 9V track in the old colors is discontinued, switch to Brown instead. --Bill. (20 years ago, 6-May-04, to lugnet.general, lugnet.lego)                Re: Color Change - Final Update —Dave Lovelace       (...) Hi Jake, So, in summary, it was a slight screw-up borne of good intentions, it's too late to fix it, but it'll never happen again, and further, future ideas borne of good intentions will be bounced off everyone. OK, then. Tell you what. Hire (...) (20 years ago, 5-May-04, to lugnet.general, lugnet.lego)                Re: Color Change - Final Update —Anthony Sava       Ok, all basic brick sizes are a must for old grey and brown. All basic plate sizes are a must for old grey and brown. All basic style bricks and plates are a must for old grey and brown (arches, slopes, tiles). All Minifig accessories, technic (...) (20 years ago, 5-May-04, to lugnet.general, lugnet.lego)                    Re: Color Change - Final Update —Anthony Sava       Jake contacted me and has asked me to post my opinion as to what specific parts I'd like to see offered in Bulk that would make the Castle people happy, much like the old grey train track makes the train people happy. He suggested maybe Castle Wall (...) (20 years ago, 5-May-04, to lugnet.general, lugnet.lego, lugnet.castle)                    Re: Color Change - Final Update —Benjamin Ellermann         Hi Jake, I just want to add my comments on offerings for castle fans Since the color decisions seem to be final, I think that the best option is to ease this transition into the new colors. Castle builders will need basic bricks, wall pieces, (...) (20 years ago, 5-May-04, to lugnet.general, lugnet.lego, lugnet.castle)                      Re: Color Change - Final Update —Leonard Hoffman         (...) I'd like to say I agree with Anthony has to say. Castle Walls I dont use as much as I use basic bricks (2xn and 1xn) and plates. Minifig accessories don't bother me as much because I don't army build. Furthermore, many of my accessories now (...) (20 years ago, 5-May-04, to lugnet.general, lugnet.lego, lugnet.castle, FTX)                        Re: Color Change - Final Update —Aaron Muhl           "Ironic that the brick packages in Old Grey made available for fans was the first time those packages were available in several years. Also, making a minfig pack based on fan suggestions is only now being proposed. It's as if only now, when TLG does (...) (20 years ago, 6-May-04, to lugnet.general, lugnet.lego, lugnet.castle)                        Re: Color Change - Final Update — Jake McKee         (...) < Begin Humorous Sarcasm > Well, besides the - MOT sets - Santa Fe sets - Metroliner - Club Car - Guarded Inn - Black Falcon's Fortress - USS Constellation - Countless other various Legends sets - Legends voting - Blacksmith Shop MOC - Santa (...) (20 years ago, 6-May-04, to lugnet.general, lugnet.lego, lugnet.castle)                          Re: Color Change - Final Update —Ken Bailey           In lugnet.general, Jake McKee wrote: snip (...) Sorry Jake but I have to point out that all of the items listed above are/have been only available to those who are able to use S@H or have a Lego brand name store close to them ie; NOT the majority of (...) (20 years ago, 6-May-04, to lugnet.general, lugnet.lego, lugnet.castle)                            Re: Color Change - Final Update —Jason Spears             (...) Well not sure about in your area, but the MOT Cars & the Sopwith Camel were available at Targets and the Santa Fe Engine, Rebel Blockade Runner, Pizza To Go, & Breezeway Cafe were available at TRU. Jason Spears | (URL) BrickCentral> | (URL) (...) (20 years ago, 6-May-04, to lugnet.general, lugnet.lego, FTX)                                Re: Color Change - Final Update —Ken Bailey             In lugnet.general, Jason Spears wrote: Snip (...) snip Hi Jason My "Area" happens to be New Zealand - no Targets, no TRU, not much of anything (unless you count the sheep), so I think I am right in saying that all of these specials are (for the (...) (20 years ago, 6-May-04, to lugnet.general, lugnet.lego, FTX)                            Re: Color Change - Final Update — Jake McKee             (...) Certainly, minus as Jason says, the times when they do come to retail. (...) Sure, but saying they don't exist, and saying they exist in a channel you don't feel like using is much different. (...) Well, besides the entire What Will You Make? (...) (20 years ago, 6-May-04, to lugnet.general, lugnet.lego, lugnet.castle)                                Re: Color Change - Final Update —Don Heyse               (...) It's more expensive than anywhere else. We have to pay tax AND shipping on top of full retail prices. Don (20 years ago, 6-May-04, to lugnet.general, lugnet.lego, lugnet.castle)                                    Re: Color Change - Final Update — Jake McKee               (...) So it's really nothing to do with S@H, but has to do with the concept of online shopping in the first place? Jake --- Jake McKee Community Liaison LEGO Community Development (20 years ago, 6-May-04, to lugnet.general, lugnet.lego, lugnet.castle)                                    Re: Color Change - Final Update —Don Heyse                 (...) Or TLC's concept of it. I do plenty of shopping online, but usually when I get notified of a 25% off sale so I know I'm getting at least as good a deal as walking into a store. SAH used to have more unique items. But now most of that is (...) (20 years ago, 6-May-04, to lugnet.general, lugnet.lego, lugnet.castle)                                    Re: Color Change - Final Update —Christian Treczoks                 (...) One word: Yes. Yours, Christian (20 years ago, 6-May-04, to lugnet.general, lugnet.lego, lugnet.castle)                                    Re: Color Change - Final Update —Jeff Shiner               (...) I'm not sure thats entirely accurate. It makes sense to me that certain items or kit are only exposed through an on-line store as retailers are reluctant to carry them. It makes sense to me (from a business point of view) to ensure that you do (...) (20 years ago, 6-May-04, to lugnet.general, lugnet.lego, lugnet.castle)                                Re: Color Change - Final Update —Christian Treczoks               (...) Why should I? Too difficiult, too expensive (plus shipping!), and it is an Online Shop, for heavens sake. There is nothing better for shopping decisions than to go into a real shop and lay your hands on the product. Besides, nobody files, (...) (20 years ago, 6-May-04, to lugnet.general, lugnet.lego, lugnet.castle)                                    Re: Color Change - Final Update — Jake McKee               (...) Agreed that there's nothing like putting your hands on it. But since 99.9% of retailers wouldn't carry the ISD, for instance, would you prefer that we simply don't do it, and concentrate only on things that a retailer *may* decide to stock? (...) (20 years ago, 6-May-04, to lugnet.general, lugnet.lego, lugnet.castle)                                    Re: Color Change - Final Update —Christian Treczoks               (...) Just don't make them so damn exclusive. I'm among the lucky people who have a brand store in less than an hours drive away, but even *they* don't carry the sets that I'd like to buy there. Take bulk packs. The PAB in Cologne has a mediocre (...) (20 years ago, 6-May-04, to lugnet.general, lugnet.lego, lugnet.castle)                                    Re: Color Change - Final Update —David Laswell               (...) When BIONICLE accounts for 25% of all LEGO product turnover, investing a little space in special items for that powerful market hardly counts as "squandering" space. It might surprise you to know that the biggest complaint about them is not (...) (20 years ago, 6-May-04, to lugnet.general, lugnet.lego, lugnet.castle)                                Re: Color Change - Final Update —David Laswell               (...) Check-By-Phone. I don't use credit cards, and I don't want to wait for my payment to arrive by snail-mail before my shipment can be sent to me. In addition to the fact that S@H usually costs more because of S&H charges, it'd take over a week (...) (20 years ago, 6-May-04, to lugnet.general, lugnet.lego, lugnet.castle)                                Re: Color Change - Final Update —Ken Bailey             In lugnet.general, Jake McKee wrote: snip out humorous sarcasm list (...) Unfortunately, the stores Jason mentions (Target and TRU) do not have branches here in New Zealand, and apart from 2 Pirate ships re-issued several years ago, I have seen (...) (20 years ago, 6-May-04, to lugnet.general, lugnet.lego, lugnet.castle)                            Re: Color Change - Final Update —David Gregory           (...) I have to disagree. Shop@Home is available in enough countries that I'm sure that the majority of shoppers DO have access to a method of buying them. Buying an exclusive set is always more fun to in a LEGO brand name store, but buying the same (...) (20 years ago, 7-May-04, to lugnet.general, lugnet.lego, lugnet.castle)                            Re: Color Change - Final Update —Ken Bailey             (...) Yes, it might be ok, but you are missing several points here, without a LEGO brand name store, there is absolutely zero chance of casual/impulse shoppers buying an exclusive (never mind the fact that people like me never get the chance to (...) (20 years ago, 7-May-04, to lugnet.general, lugnet.lego, lugnet.castle)                                Re: Color Change - Final Update —Jonathan Wilson             (...) I totally aggree with this. Take for example, the Shop @ Home only minifig scale Lunar Module. If it was available from somewhere in australia, I would have definatly bought it by now. But because it has to come all the way from denmark, takes (...) (20 years ago, 7-May-04, to lugnet.general, lugnet.lego, lugnet.castle)                            Re: Color Change - Final Update —David Laswell           (...) Same coin, different side. He's not talking about places where S@H is available, but places where it isn't. S@H is available in a whopping 19 countries, which are currently restricted to portions of North America, Oceania, and Western Europe (...) (20 years ago, 7-May-04, to lugnet.general, lugnet.lego, lugnet.castle)                        Re: Color Change - Final Update —Leonard Hoffman         (...) Umm.. You list several things twice - or in two categories (ie. "Countless Legends Sets" and "Guarded Inn", "Black Falcon's Fortress"). Several of those are just sets (UCS ISD and RBR) - and I can hardly count those as fitting of the bill of (...) (20 years ago, 6-May-04, to lugnet.general, lugnet.lego, lugnet.castle, FTX)                    Re: Color Change - Final Update —Aaron Muhl         I have the answer: Castle Wall Pieces that are mixes of old grays and news. No, not four types of pieces. ONE wall piece that contains all four colors in it. Think about it, if you make the wall pieces look like bricks made of all four colors, you (...) (20 years ago, 6-May-04, to lugnet.general, lugnet.lego, lugnet.castle)                      Re: Color Change - Final Update —Aaron Muhl         More feedback from me, since there doesn't seem to be enough general feedback on this topic. :P I really like the idea of releasing a bunch of castle Legends in new gray. This would be a great way for us to start building our new gray collection. I (...) (20 years ago, 6-May-04, to lugnet.general, lugnet.lego, lugnet.castle)                          Re: Color Change - Final Update —Jason Spears         (...) Well I think it's pretty obvious that I would buy a ton of this pack if it was ever made. And I could think of at least a ½ dozen other builders in my club that would as well. Jason Spears | (URL) BrickCentral> | (URL) MichLUG> (20 years ago, 6-May-04, to lugnet.general, lugnet.lego, lugnet.castle, FTX)                    Re: Color Change - Final Update —Aaron West         I'd say I have to agree that the parts packs of basic bricks, plates and tiles would be a good permanent setting. However, I would like to see those same packs in the new colors ALSO. I have room for both of the dark and light grey tones, as well as (...) (20 years ago, 6-May-04, to lugnet.general, lugnet.lego, lugnet.castle)                    Re: Color Change - Final Update —Christian Treczoks       (...) Yuk. I am an avid builder of things that would fit into the castle area, but I don't want to caught dead with such a thing as a "castle wall element". Or wooden palisades. Or BURPs (The "U" in BURP is not a joke...). Walls are supposed to be (...) (20 years ago, 6-May-04, to lugnet.general, lugnet.lego, lugnet.castle)                    Re: Color Change - Final Update —Marc Nelson, Jr.       (...) I agree. Castle wall pieces are not nearly as universally useful as plain old bricks and plates. You can make a Castle wall piece with bricks, plates, and an arch - but it's tough to make a car or a mecha out of Castle wall pieces. Marc Nelson (...) (20 years ago, 6-May-04, to lugnet.general, lugnet.lego, lugnet.castle)                Re: Color Change - Final Update —John Barnes       In lugnet.general, Jake McKee wrote: ..... (...) ..... Thanks for the update Jake. I think that the train track is a key item. Public displays of mottled layouts would not look good. Buildings in new shades of gray sharing layouts with buildings in (...) (20 years ago, 5-May-04, to lugnet.lego)                Re: Color Change - Final Update —David Koudys       In lugnet.general, Jake McKee wrote: <snip> (...) Hey Jake, Many thanks for the 'heads up'. Like many others, I agree that the 9v track is pretty important to keep as the original dk gray. Other than that, I've got nothing. As an aside, I agree with (...) (20 years ago, 5-May-04, to lugnet.general, lugnet.lego)                Which colours ARE "universal" now? —Christian Treczoks       Hi, Jake, first of all: I know you're only the messenger. Take the bullets to those who are responsible for this. (...) <sarcasm> Translation: Even the dumbest managers can learn a little from an outright desaster. It may be late, but what the f..., (...) (20 years ago, 5-May-04, to lugnet.general, lugnet.lego)                      Re: Which colours ARE "universal" now? —Tracey Greenwood       (...) I was wondering about white...can white be anything other than...well, white? :0? Tracey (20 years ago, 5-May-04, to lugnet.general, lugnet.lego)                    Re: Which colours ARE "universal" now? —Jindrich Kubec       (...) I was about to ask the very same question, Christian was faster... (...) Actually LEGO white is slightly creamy. They can make it a bit bluish, colder. That would match 'cold' gray better. (20 years ago, 5-May-04, to lugnet.general, lugnet.lego)                    Re: Which colours ARE "universal" now? —David Laswell       (...) No, the only thing that would make sense would be to shift the handful of truly "cool" colors toward the warmer end of the spectrum. That way {[NO]} colors would look good next to the bleys. Looking through the various colors I have on hand, (...) (20 years ago, 5-May-04, to lugnet.general, lugnet.lego)                Re: Color Change - Final Update —Gregory Muri       Thanks for the update Jake, wish it was better news. I have to say that I fall into the category of people that feel this change is in no way acceptable. Your statement that "some good thinking" went into this only strengthens my opinion that the (...) (20 years ago, 5-May-04, to lugnet.general, lugnet.lego) !                 Re: Color Change - Final Update —Steve Demlow       (...) IMO train track (you can ignore the cross track) and the current "retro" brick and plate packs, plus the 2x4 brick packs, would suffice. Those cover most of what folks tend to use in bulk. For most everything else we're just going to have to (...) (20 years ago, 5-May-04, to lugnet.general, lugnet.lego)                  Re: Color Change - Final Update —Tracey Greenwood       (...) Why not a Lego bunker - there's a few here who could help you build one ;0) (...) I think we'd all like clarification on which current colours will be "universal"... (...) Well yes, all of them, but I have a suggestion. Why don't Lego release (...) (20 years ago, 5-May-04, to lugnet.general, lugnet.lego)                Re: Color Change - Final Update —Bryan Kinkel       (...) change (...) Jake - get ready for some more griping. I hope you will continue to forward these gripe emails to the decision makers on this matter. Yes, this did open new wounds and I'm still astounded that TLC does not get it. But I would also (...) (20 years ago, 5-May-04, to lugnet.general, lugnet.lego)                    Re: Color Change - Final Update —Mark Riley       (...) Well, somewhere in all the "good thinking" you will probably find the word "Bionicle". Not even Jake would be able to put enough spin on that for us AFOLs to swallow it... ;-) Hence, the reasoning will remain a mystery to us. At least I have (...) (20 years ago, 5-May-04, to lugnet.general, lugnet.lego)                    Re: Color Change - Final Update —Jindrich Kubec         (...) But, I know it's a blasphemy, but I think for Bionicle and Technic the new colours will look better. I've got new Toa Nuju and it looks good with the new colours. (...) Anybody knows why Peeron is calling the new colors DkStone and MdStone? (...) (20 years ago, 5-May-04, to lugnet.general, lugnet.lego)                        Re: Color Change - Final Update —Scott Lyttle           <snip> (...) Those names are what Lego has given to them...pure and simple. Scott Lyttle (20 years ago, 5-May-04, to lugnet.general, lugnet.lego)                            Re: Color Change - Final Update —Thomas Stangl           What colorblind IDIOT named the New Dark Grey stone? It is anything BUT stone in color. I haven't seen a single person liken it to natural stones. All liken it to metals. (...) -- Tom Stangl *(URL) Visual FAQ home *(URL) Visual FAQ Home (20 years ago, 6-May-04, to lugnet.general, lugnet.lego)                          Re: Color Change - Final Update —David Laswell         (...) Ugh! No! Dark-bley even clashes with white. The only one that actually doesn't clash is Toa Nokama (even Toa Whenua looks a bit off with the white and blue connector pieces on an otherwise black/bley design) (20 years ago, 6-May-04, to lugnet.general, lugnet.lego, FTX)                        Re: Color Change - Final Update —Mark Riley         (...) There's been no mention of whether white is "universal" or not. But since it clashes so much with the new permanent colors, I think it's only a matter of time before we can kiss it goodbye, too. Mark (20 years ago, 6-May-04, to lugnet.general, lugnet.lego, FTX)                        Re: Color Change - Final Update —David Laswell         (...) I doubt it very much. Natural ABS is a slightly translucent cream color, and white is probably the hardest color to achieve. Heavy metal pigments are no longer legal in the US (which is why brown/tan plastic electrical fixtures are no longer (...) (20 years ago, 6-May-04, to lugnet.general, lugnet.lego, FTX)                        Re: Color Change - Final Update —Dave Schuler           (...) In all seriousness, do you suppose that this is how MEGABLOKS does it? I've noticed for years that their "white" is more "white" than LEGO "white," but I never knew the underlying reason. Is there a simple, reliable way to discern the (...) (20 years ago, 6-May-04, to lugnet.general, lugnet.lego, FTX)                            Re: Color Change - Final Update —David Laswell             (...) Absolutely. Different plastics have different natural colors. Some start out clear, others start out white, and those are basically the only colors that can achieve a true white (since hobby shops generally only sell white styrene, I'd guess (...) (20 years ago, 6-May-04, to lugnet.general, lugnet.lego, FTX)                            Re: Color Change - Final Update —Jan-Albert van Ree           (...) Density (PS is lighter IIRC, check with Google or something), strength (ABS is more resistant to bending and such) or surface (PS is a bit porous, try a microscope or high-power magnifying glass) (20 years ago, 6-May-04, to lugnet.general, lugnet.lego)                        Re: Color Change - Final Update —Thomas Stangl         (...) You can ask this, after they switched dark grey, just to make it look WORSE with virtually every other color made? -- Tom Stangl *(URL) Visual FAQ home *(URL) Visual FAQ Home (20 years ago, 6-May-04, to lugnet.general, lugnet.lego)                        Re: Color Change - Final Update —David Laswell         (...) *sigh* I'm doing my best to be optimistic about this, just like when I'm hoping that this whole "universal color" thing isn't just something they came up with to milk free AFOL PR out of the fact that they might never have intended to make any (...) (20 years ago, 6-May-04, to lugnet.general, lugnet.lego)                    Re: Color Change - Final Update — Jake McKee       (...) I'm going to be answering some of the questions brought up in this thread as best as I can throughout the day and week. But let me say that I take issue with that idea that I "spin" anything. I don't try to, nor do I feel like I spin or in any (...) (20 years ago, 5-May-04, to lugnet.general, lugnet.lego)                      Re: Color Change - Final Update —Bryan Kinkel         "Jake McKee" <jacob.mckee@america.lego.com> wrote in message news:Hx918L.CEz@lugnet.com... (...) anything I (...) Yes, it will most likely be upsetting. But it is my personal belief that we just have not heard the whole story as to how and why this (...) (20 years ago, 5-May-04, to lugnet.general, lugnet.lego)                        Re: Color Change - Final Update —Don Heyse         (...) Yes, please share. I noticed there was never an official denial to the rumor that the real reason was so TLC could recycle blue ABS into the greys, and red ABS into the browns in order to save money. Is this the real reason why you can't go (...) (20 years ago, 5-May-04, to lugnet.general, lugnet.lego)                        Re: Color Change - Final Update — Jake McKee           (...) Consider this an official denial. :) Jake --- Jake McKee Community Liaison LEGO Community Development (20 years ago, 5-May-04, to lugnet.general, lugnet.lego)                            Re: Color Change - Final Update —Jindrich Kubec             (...) Jake, how long would it take to present us with some real reason for doing the change? I can accept something like this: some higly positioned **** in the management thought it was a great idea. There was nobody brave enough to tell him that (...) (20 years ago, 5-May-04, to lugnet.general, lugnet.lego)                                  Re: Color Change - Final Update —Larry Pieniazek               (...) Why not? There are always ways to get things. There are always fans that would help out friendly, helpful people in other countries if asked nicely. But thread hijacking, especially hijacking really busy threads that are apparently bringing (...) (20 years ago, 5-May-04, to lugnet.general, lugnet.lego)                                Re: Color Change - Final Update —Jason Spears               (...) Just because you and some others don't accept that Marketing thought it was a good idea to change the colors doesn't make it not the "real reason". (...) I'm sure that some people within the company thought it was a bad idea. But those people (...) (20 years ago, 5-May-04, to lugnet.general, lugnet.lego, lugnet.admin.general, FTX)                                Re: Color Change - Final Update —Leonard Hoffman             (...) If you accept this theory - then what would make you think Jake is brave enough to publically rebuke said highly positioned ****? If everyone else is afraid, then they have good reason to be afraid (meaning=fired) - and I'd rather have Jake (...) (20 years ago, 6-May-04, to lugnet.general, lugnet.lego)                                Re: Color Change - Final Update —Jindrich Kubec             (...) Because there were some fires in the top management recently, so it's non-zero probability the person is not there or not in that high position ;-) (20 years ago, 6-May-04, to lugnet.general, lugnet.lego)                            Re: Color Change - Final Update —Ka-On Lee           (...) OK... that what is the real reason for the change? Please don't tell me TLC is applying patent for the new colour... :p And why can't TLC switch back for the mean line, but can still produce old colour if needed? If the new colour is really (...) (20 years ago, 6-May-04, to lugnet.general, lugnet.lego)                        Re: Color Change - Final Update —Jan-Albert van Ree           (...) You can't simply "mix" ABS like that. The colors will never blend 100% and you'll get swirling patterns such as McDonalds "Flurry" icecreams :) -- Jan-Albert van Ree (20 years ago, 5-May-04, to lugnet.general, lugnet.lego)                            Re: Color Change - Final Update —David Laswell           (...) Yes you can. It's done all the time. Any color of ABS can be easily recycled into black, because the carbon used to color it will overpower any other dyes. Other colors are entirely dependant upon what you want to recycle them into. You can't (...) (20 years ago, 6-May-04, to lugnet.general, lugnet.lego)                            Re: Color Change - Final Update —Aaron Muhl             What colors do you grind up and mix to get Purple Dave? :D "Purple Dave" <purpledave@maskofdestiny.com> wrote in message news:Hx9uMx.15LG@lugnet.com... (...) recycled (...) dyes. (...) into. (...) and/or (...) exactly (...) exactly (...) Once (...) (...) (20 years ago, 6-May-04, to lugnet.general, lugnet.lego)                                Re: Color Change - Final Update —David Laswell             (...) I'm actually quite partial to the standard LEGO purple, though I've noticed that the Throwbot limbs aren't the same shade as all of the other pieces, and they've used three slightly different shades of purple rubber (two shades for purple (...) (20 years ago, 6-May-04, to lugnet.general, lugnet.lego)                            Re: Color Change - Final Update —Jan-Albert van Ree           (...) Wow.... I've been an intern for 4 months at a Dutch injection moulding company but I never knew it was possible, apart from the black (as has been done for years with car bumpers and such) But unless you do this in HUGE quantities, how can you (...) (20 years ago, 6-May-04, to lugnet.general, lugnet.lego)                            Re: Color Change - Final Update —David Laswell           (...) That's part of the problem. You do get much greater accuracy as you increase the size of the batch. It's also probably a lot easier to do with sheet extrusion than with injection molding, where you have a constant flow of a large amount of (...) (20 years ago, 6-May-04, to lugnet.general)                        Re: Color Change - Final Update —Erik Olson         (...) Now that you got your official denial, consider: Lego makes more black bricks than they do gray bricks. In the recycling article they said recycled plastic goes into black bricks. (20 years ago, 6-May-04, to lugnet.general, lugnet.lego)                        Re: Color Change - Final Update —Don Heyse         (...) I'm not sure what you're trying to tell me. Please explain further. Or maybe I just need some coffee. I really wish they would just tell us the real business decision behind the change. Then we could move on. (20 years ago, 6-May-04, to lugnet.general, lugnet.lego)                        Re: Color Change - Final Update —Don Heyse         (...) Oh wait, I think I get it now. Maybe the first question was too specific. Let's make it a game of it and see if we can gather a few more "official denials". How about 20 questions? Was there a cost savings component in the decision to change (...) (20 years ago, 6-May-04, to lugnet.general, lugnet.lego)                    Re: Color Change - Final Update —Mark Riley       (...) Jake, You chose to take the worst possible meaning of "spin" (despite my winking smiley) and I am sorry for that. The definition I intended was merely the interpretation of facts to put the best possible face on a bad situation. That doesn't (...) (20 years ago, 5-May-04, to lugnet.general, lugnet.lego)                Re: Color Change - Final Update —Ted Michon       Jake- Very good news! Thanks. Light and dark grays are our favorite colors for making large real-world models. Here is what would keep us building for a long time to come in dark gray: 1x1 bricks 1x2 bricks 1x3 bricks 1x4 bricks 1x6 bricks 1x8 (...) (20 years ago, 5-May-04, to lugnet.general, lugnet.lego, FTX)                    Re: Color Change - Final Update —Adrian Egli       (...) First- a "thank you" to Jake for giving us this update. What Ted has said here matches my thoughts. For my creations, plain o'l retangular sizes are what matter to me the most. As long as I can get the old color, I'm happy. The detailing parts (...) (20 years ago, 5-May-04, to lugnet.general, lugnet.lego, FTX)                Re: Color Change - Final Update —Johannes Koehler       Hello! (...) Fine. Becoming aware of something usually is a good first step into a better direction. (...) Yeah, great! We (the AFOLs) fight against those new colours and you (TLC) make them even more solid and declare them made for eternity? (...) (20 years ago, 5-May-04, to lugnet.general, lugnet.lego)                      Re: Color Change - Final Update — Jake McKee         (...) ...and ensuring issues like this don't happen again. (...) Only if you choose to view it that way. (I tend to be a "on the bright side...." kind of guy) To me, this is the AFOLs saying something (we're upset that things changed suddenly), and (...) (20 years ago, 5-May-04, to lugnet.general, lugnet.lego)                        Re: Color Change - Final Update —Anthony Sava           (...) With all due respect, Jake, this doesn't make me feel better. Saying 'Oops, it'll never happen again' doesn't really mean anything to me, because the change has already happened. If LEGO changes the colors again, what do I care, I don't plan (...) (20 years ago, 5-May-04, to lugnet.general, lugnet.lego)                              Re: Color Change - Final Update —Johannes Koehler           Hello! (...) And so is mine. Thanks, Anthony! Bye Jojo (20 years ago, 5-May-04, to lugnet.general, lugnet.lego)                        Re: Color Change - Final Update —Dave Schuler           (...) It might be worth noting that this doesn't suggest that TLG will actually take AFOL input into consideration--merely that TLG won't make the change without AFOL input. The input might easily be ignored, but TLG can still claim to have accepted (...) (20 years ago, 5-May-04, to lugnet.general, lugnet.lego)                            Re: Color Change - Final Update —Don Heyse             (...) Ah, good to see you finally "noticed the color change". ;^) (20 years ago, 5-May-04, to lugnet.general, lugnet.lego)                                Re: Color Change - Final Update —Dave Schuler             (...) Doh! Uh, well, er, I just, um, wanted to stay current re: LEGO developments. Hey, you're supposed to be in ot.debate! What are you doing here? Dave! (20 years ago, 5-May-04, to lugnet.general, lugnet.lego)                            Re: Color Change - Final Update — Jake McKee             (...) Wow. That's harsh. Jake --- Jake McKee Community Liaison LEGO Community Development (20 years ago, 5-May-04, to lugnet.general, lugnet.lego)                                Re: Color Change - Final Update —Dave Schuler               (...) Heh. Well, what can I say? I tend to be an "on the dark side" kind of guy... Harsh, perhaps--but is my assessment inaccurate? Aside from the bottom line, corporations love nothing as much as preserving wiggle room. Dave! (20 years ago, 5-May-04, to lugnet.general, lugnet.lego)                                      Re: Color Change - Final Update — Jake McKee               (...) I suppose, you could be right, but I think it misses the entire point of why we would ask for feedback in the first place. Why would we even bother to ask if we didn't think we would somehow use it? The point of us agreeing to include AFOLs (...) (20 years ago, 5-May-04, to lugnet.general, lugnet.lego)                                    Re: Color Change - Final Update —Bryan Kinkel                 "Jake McKee" <jacob.mckee@america.lego.com> wrote in message news:Hx9Aox.251s@lugnet.com... (...) themselves. Jake, then why can't we hear from TLC, the people driven company, why they thought reversing 20+ years of product design was "good." ? We (...) (20 years ago, 5-May-04, to lugnet.general, lugnet.lego)                                    Re: Color Change - Final Update —Dave Schuler               (...) I should take a moment to thank you for your courtesy in addressing my concerns, since I flatter myself to think that you might know my MO here on LUGNET, so I'm hardly the biggest income source for TLG. Thank you. I don't mean to lay a big (...) (20 years ago, 5-May-04, to lugnet.general, lugnet.lego)                                    Re: Color Change - Final Update — Jake McKee               In lugnet.general, Dave Schuler wrote: [sniparoo] (...) I understand the point, but I don't exactly follow it. The only way that sales are boosted by paying attention to AFOL feedback is with the AFOL market. There really isn't a way we can take (...) (20 years ago, 5-May-04, to lugnet.general, lugnet.lego)                                    Re: Color Change - Final Update —Dave Schuler                 (...) I guess I'm thinking about it like this (and please correct me if I'm wrong): AFOL's are among the most die-hard fans of the brand (low flight-risk) AFOL's account for a low percentage of overall sales (low dollar-risk) Kids (& non-AFOL (...) (20 years ago, 5-May-04, to lugnet.general, lugnet.lego)                                    Re: Color Change - Final Update —Mike Petrucelli                 (...) I know you mean well, (read: don't take this personal) but I completely disagree with this. I know for a fact the the only thing that has changed in my 'wants' since I was 8, is the quantity. AFOLs are AFOLs because we were addicted as kids. (...) (20 years ago, 5-May-04, to lugnet.general, lugnet.lego)                                    Re: Color Change - Final Update —Tracey Greenwood                 (...) Jake, I feel people may be cynical due to the experience of being "short-changed" by other large companies. Take eBay, for example. they always like to give the impression they are listening and "taking the community's ideas on board", when (...) (20 years ago, 5-May-04, to lugnet.general, lugnet.lego)                                        Re: Color Change - Final Update — Jake McKee                 (...) Yeah, I can understand this. You make a good point. (...) See, this is where I scratch my head. I'm not sure what more I can do to convince people, or prove to people that we do listen. We've developed tons of products that are extremely AFOL (...) (20 years ago, 6-May-04, to lugnet.general, lugnet.lego)                                        Re: Color Change - Final Update —Marc Nelson, Jr.                   (...) You mean besides reversing the color change? Marc Nelson Jr. (20 years ago, 6-May-04, to lugnet.general, lugnet.lego)                                        Re: Color Change - Final Update —Christian Treczoks                   (...) Yes, you listened to us in this respect, and we are thankful for what TLC did here. And it propably sold good, too. (...) Because the mistake itself, the way how the issue was handeld, the results that have been drawn and the suicidal "we (...) (20 years ago, 6-May-04, to lugnet.general, lugnet.lego)                                        Re: Color Change - Final Update —Don Heyse                   (...) All that was very good. Thank you! But you do realize the color change makes all those good things less compatible with your new products. Right? (...) I'm curious. I'm not sure I caught it in all the talk, but what exactly is the mistake (...) (20 years ago, 6-May-04, to lugnet.general, lugnet.lego)                                        Re: Color Change - Final Update —Gregory Muri                   <big snip> (...) I do (...) First Jake, it is not something you can do. It is something that Lego as a company has to do. Return to the original colors and make them the "universal" from this point forward. Accept and realize that this mistake is on (...) (20 years ago, 6-May-04, to lugnet.general, lugnet.lego)                                          Re: Color Change - Final Update —Leonard Hoffman                   (...) Some people won't ever be convinced - but I'd like to say this: The very fact of this question, this thread, and this discussion all supports one thing: TLG listens to the Fans. Jake is a paid professional who's sole job (it seems) is to argue (...) (20 years ago, 6-May-04, to lugnet.general, lugnet.lego) !                                         Re: Color Change - Final Update —Johannes Koehler                   Hello! (...) Yes, by doing all the mentioned above you gave us sugar. But by changing the greys and brown you stole our bread. Bye Jojo (20 years ago, 6-May-04, to lugnet.general, lugnet.lego)                                        Re: Color Change - Final Update —Thomas Stangl                   (...) This question simply proves that you aren't. This thread has had several people mention that the problem isn't that you're refusing to admit the mistake. The problem is that you refuse to back out of it and switch back to the old colors. (...) (20 years ago, 6-May-04, to lugnet.general, lugnet.lego)                                            Re: Color Change - Final Update —Jeff Shiner                     (...) Boy... you folks just don't get it do you. Changing colours is a business decision!!! The fact that TLG decided to keep the new colours simply can not possibly indicate that they did not listen to AFOLs... only that they believe the new (...) (20 years ago, 6-May-04, to lugnet.general, lugnet.lego)                                            Re: Color Change - Final Update —Frank Filz                     "Tom Stangl, VFAQman" <talonts@vfaq.com> wrote in message news:409AA24C.CFA08D...faq.com... (...) can I do (...) people (...) The problem (...) "Cementing (...) Hmm, by this logic then, I could claim TLC hasn't been listening since 1991 when they (...) (20 years ago, 6-May-04, to lugnet.general, lugnet.lego)                                            Re: Color Change - Final Update —Anders Isaksson                     (...) Throw a lot of bricks in old and new colors in a heap on the floor, and then let in a number of kids and take note of which pieces are used first, and most. Mixing old and new gray *really* makes the old look 'dirty', the new are much (...) (20 years ago, 7-May-04, to lugnet.general, lugnet.lego)                                                Re: Color Change - Final Update —Dave Schuler                     (...) It's fairly obvious that TLG's goal of profit is the main motivation for the change. To use an example like your own, tell a focus-group-kid that she has five dollars to spend on a either of two sets, one of which has 10 pieces, while the (...) (20 years ago, 7-May-04, to lugnet.general, lugnet.lego)                                            Re: Color Change - Final Update —Jeff Szklennik                   (...) SNIP (...) howbout this?: (URL) Jeff (20 years ago, 10-May-04, to lugnet.general, lugnet.lego, FTX)                                        Re: Color Change - Final Update —James Brink                   (...) Jake, All the sets you have listed in this post (and another previous one) were great additions for the AFOL. Many thanks to whoever was responsible for bringing them to us! I don't think anyone would disagree that AFOL treatment was at an all (...) (20 years ago, 6-May-04, to lugnet.general, lugnet.lego)                                        Re: Color Change - Final Update —Wesley Davis                   (...) I can't help but cynically joke (by rearranging words) that LEGO has embraced the "4+" community and shunned the minifig this year. Since you're in apology-mode anyway... (...) Keep the all of the wood-like pieces the old brown (Barrels, (...) (20 years ago, 7-May-04, to lugnet.general, lugnet.lego)                                            Re: Color Change - Final Update —Jason Maxwell                     (...) I agree, anything that should be made out of wood should be available in the old color. The old brown looks more like actual wood to me than the new one. Along with that things like 1x1 brown cylinders and 2x2 round bricks and plates for use (...) (20 years ago, 7-May-04, to lugnet.general, lugnet.lego)                                            Re: Color Change - Final Update —Jonathan Wilson                   (...) Perhaps just keep the 10040 on as a "permanent" item in the old colors... Would that satisfy pirate builders? (20 years ago, 8-May-04, to lugnet.general, lugnet.lego)                                        Re: Color Change - Final Update —James Wilson                 In lugnet.general, Jake McKee wrote: -snippage- (...) Jake, I've resisted jumping in and flogging the dead horse, but I also want to add my voice to the chorus. Sorry - this isn't as organized as I would like, but I have tired-head. You don't need (...) (20 years ago, 7-May-04, to lugnet.general, lugnet.lego, FTX) !                                     Re: Color Change - Final Update —David Laswell               (...) AFOLs contribute a lot of free advertising about LEGO product by doing shows, running websites, and helping parents/kids out in the toy aisles. The tone of that advertising is very much dependant on how well our concerns are being addressed. (...) (20 years ago, 6-May-04, to lugnet.general, lugnet.lego)                                    Re: Color Change - Final Update — Jake McKee               (...) Agreed, and if you stand around me in person more than 10 minutes, you'll probably hear at least 3 big "thank you!" for that. But I don't think I did a good job of explaining my point. I'm not saying that AFOLs are not worth listening to. I'm (...) (20 years ago, 6-May-04, to lugnet.general, lugnet.lego)                                    Re: Color Change - Final Update —David Laswell               (...) Ah, I see now. You were trying to say that the only market that cares strictly about the commitment to listen to AFOL feedback is the AFOL market itself, which I can agree with. Noone else has any reason to care why you did something so much (...) (20 years ago, 6-May-04, to lugnet.general, lugnet.lego)                                Re: Color Change - Final Update —Thomas Stangl             It's not harsh. It's just a clear statement of what *could* happen. Judging by this color debacle, it's not much of a stretch, either. I have yet to see a clear Business Case answer for the color change. Everything stated to date has been pretty (...) (20 years ago, 6-May-04, to lugnet.general, lugnet.lego)                            Re: Color Change - Final Update —Jeff Shiner           (...) I don't agree with that statement. It clearly means that AFOL input WILL be taken into consideration. Clearly that does not mean that TLG won't make changes contradictory to the wishes of the AFOL community... nor should it. TLG will make its (...) (20 years ago, 6-May-04, to lugnet.general, lugnet.lego)                        Re: Color Change - Final Update —Jan-Albert van Ree         (...) But how can we trust those words, if you already broke those words, despite your corporate values and such? Sorry Jake, but apart from changing the stud dimension LEGO committed one of the worst mistakes any such company could make and it (...) (20 years ago, 5-May-04, to lugnet.general, lugnet.lego)                          Re: Color Change - Final Update — Jake McKee         In lugnet.general, Jan-Albert van Ree wrote: <Frustration Warning!> (...) First off, when did I (or anyone from LEGO) ever previously say we were locking colors and no changes would ever be made? I don't recall ever having done that. And I'm not (...) (20 years ago, 5-May-04, to lugnet.general, lugnet.lego) !                         Re: Color Change - Final Update —Kelly McKiernan           (...) Jake, I for one really appreciate the considerable effort by yourself and LEGO in listening and responding to the feedback from a small group of consumers. I hope the negative responses here don't adversely affect future LEGO community (...) (20 years ago, 5-May-04, to lugnet.general, lugnet.lego)                              (canceled) —Kevin Salm                        Re: Color Change - Final Update —Anders Isaksson           (...) <My opinion> The 'natural' transition to the new colors would be to have as many different elements as possible available in the *new* colors as soon as possible (bulk, mixed packs, etc). As long as only a few different parts are available, (...) (20 years ago, 5-May-04, to lugnet.general, lugnet.lego)                        Re: Color Change - Final Update —Anders Isaksson           (...) Oh, and I forgot: It would be *very* handy to have a fuller list of 'frozen' colors, to know what to concentrate on... -- Anders Isaksson, Sweden BlockCAD: (2 URLs) (20 years ago, 5-May-04, to lugnet.general, lugnet.lego)                        Re: Color Change - Final Update —Adrian Egli           In lugnet.general, Jake McKee wrote: <<snipped>> (...) Let me say seeing this apology shows this AFOL that Lego does care about us. (...) No doubt there. The parts packs being offered now are a very good start IMO. By "locking" in certain parts in (...) (20 years ago, 5-May-04, to lugnet.general, lugnet.lego)                        Re: Color Change - Final Update —Jan-Albert van Ree           (...) Read Jojo's statement, that's pretty much my point of view as well... (...) They managed to back it up with reasonable facts and managed to convince people it was a better product (and at a similair price level, which in that case was (...) (20 years ago, 5-May-04, to lugnet.general, lugnet.lego)                        Re: Color Change - Final Update —David Laswell           (...) The simple answer is you didn't. Ever. Not in so many words, at least. However, to quote the last sentence on p16 of the 2002 LEGO Brand Guide, "All LEGO elements, whether produced in Denmark or Switzerland, in 1958 or 2001, are fully (...) (20 years ago, 6-May-04, to lugnet.general, lugnet.lego)                              Re: Color Change - Final Update —Johannes Koehler           Hello David! (...) Thanks. Bye Jojo (20 years ago, 6-May-04, to lugnet.general, lugnet.lego)                        Colour change: The best way to screw the Lego values —Christian Treczoks         Jake, Again, it is not against you but those who made the decision. (...) Just for reference, freshly from the lego.com site: "Quality for the LEGO Company is about product quality, ethical values and a consistency in all of our actions that (...) (20 years ago, 6-May-04, to lugnet.general, lugnet.lego)                    Re: Color Change - Final Update —Yaron Dori       (...) My thoughts exactly Yaron "Webrain" Dori (20 years ago, 5-May-04, to lugnet.general, lugnet.lego)                Re: Color Change - Final Update —Ken Nagel       (...) SNIP (...) This is fairly disheartening. Comming up with names like "Universal colors" is a big part of the financial problems Lego is having. Duplo for instance has been stuck with so many diffrent labels that many consumers can't find it if (...) (20 years ago, 5-May-04, to lugnet.general, lugnet.lego)                Re: Color Change - Final Update —Thomas Main       (...) The first item on your list of "good news" confuses me. Are you saying that these three colors are now instant classic colors and only they will remain unchanged? What about white, black, red, yellow, blue and green? Those are also core (...) (20 years ago, 5-May-04, to lugnet.general, lugnet.lego)                    Re: Color Change - Final Update — Jake McKee       (...) Easy now. Saying the three new colors are locked doesn't equate to others not being locked. It's a very good question about what colors are considered "universal" though, and I'll get back to you ASAP on that. (...) I didn't really mean to (...) (20 years ago, 5-May-04, to lugnet.general, lugnet.lego)                    Re: Color Change - Final Update —Markus Weber       (...) Jake: I recall a somewhat controversial (as always!) survey that you announced in the past few months. The main focus of it was Legends. We were asked to rate possible future Legends releases. There were also questions about potential future (...) (20 years ago, 5-May-04, to lugnet.general, lugnet.lego)                    Re: Color Change - Final Update —Benjamin Medinets       <snippage> (...) I agree. I careless for this color change issue more as I see what the colors look like. The only thing that I really find irritating about the colors is the decision to go with pasty skin tones instead of classic ones. That, and a (...) (20 years ago, 5-May-04, to lugnet.general, lugnet.lego)                Re: Color Change - Final Update —James Stacey       "Jake McKee" <jacob.mckee@america.lego.com> wrote in message news:Hx8uCD.19rs@lugnet.com... (...) likely be (...) train (...) which (...) you (...) I had a good think, purely and selfishly as a castle builder, armour, weapons etc, they will be fine (...) (20 years ago, 5-May-04, to lugnet.general, lugnet.lego)                Re: Color Change - Final Update —Larry Pieniazek       (snip) This is a fairly radical opinion, I guess, but I'm not convinced that the 9V track is one of the "key" pieces to keep in production in old dark grey. I know it's different but frankly, this is an area where reality DOES vary. Railroads (...) (20 years ago, 5-May-04, to lugnet.general, lugnet.lego)                    Re: Color Change - Final Update —Frank Filz         "Larry Pieniazek" <larry.(mylastname)@...areDOTcom> wrote in message news:Hx91Ap.Cx9@lugnet.com... (...) 9V (...) know (...) Railroads (...) concrete (...) Hmm, if we're going to do anything with the track, how about brown? New brown would be fine. (...) (20 years ago, 5-May-04, to lugnet.general, lugnet.lego)                        Re: Color Change - Final Update —Mike Walsh           "Frank Filz" <ffilz-lists@mindspring.com> wrote in message news:Hx922u.IIp@lugnet.com... [ ... snipped ... ] (...) minifigs (...) have (...) head (...) [ ... snipped ... ] We had a similar conversation at the NCLTC GATS show a couple of weeks ago. (...) (20 years ago, 5-May-04, to lugnet.general, lugnet.lego)                            Re: Color Change - Final Update —Tracey Greenwood           (...) I like my Lego people as classic yellow smilies too. I don't really like the new minifigs with different expressions and stuff. I like them yellow, smiling and maybe with sunglasses or a pirate face. But then I'm a 1970s-mid-90s kinda gal... (...) (20 years ago, 5-May-04, to lugnet.general, lugnet.lego)                        Re: Color Change - Final Update - Track —Mark Bellis           (...) Nooo...ooo! Chocolate brown track would be a total disaster! The track colour should emulate reality. Old dark grey for steel, old light grey for concrete or old brown for wood, but the new colours are totally unsuitable. Any change to the (...) (20 years ago, 5-May-04, to lugnet.general, lugnet.lego)                            Re: Color Change - Final Update - Track —Larry Pieniazek             (...) Why? I hear the WHINE, but I'm not hearing the WHY. WHY is this important, compared to other things (assume you're making a priority list here) Track varies in color in real life. It just *doesn't* make a high priority list of things in my (...) (20 years ago, 5-May-04, to lugnet.general, lugnet.lego)                                Re: Color Change - Final Update - Track —Jindrich Kubec               (...) That's your point of view - the consumer buys a product from LEGO. Other's point of view - the consumer buys a product from LEGO which belongs to SYSTEM. (20 years ago, 5-May-04, to lugnet.general, lugnet.lego)                                    Re: Color Change - Final Update - Track —Larry Pieniazek               (...) It's more than just *my* point of view, it's the law, at least in the US. There is typically no implied warranty of suitability to purpose or fitness that is attached to any good sold here. You would need an express warranty to have any (...) (20 years ago, 5-May-04, to lugnet.general, lugnet.lego)                                    Re: Color Change - Final Update - Track —David Koudys                 In lugnet.general, Larry Pieniazek wrote: <snip> (...) See, you sit around long enuf and it shows up :) Anyway, I completely agree with Larry--when you buy something, you own what you purchased, but that does not, in any way, shape or form imply (...) (20 years ago, 5-May-04, to lugnet.general, lugnet.lego)                                    Re: Color Change - Final Update - Track —Alfred Speredelozzi               In lugnet.general, Larry Pieniazek wrote: <snip> (...) Then why debate? You have continued this conversation far longer than it needs to be. Maybe one response if you really feel the urge, but honestly, I felt his claim that Lego owes him money so (...) (20 years ago, 5-May-04, to lugnet.general)                                Re: Color Change - Final Update - Track —Frank Filz               "Larry Pieniazek" <larry.(mylastname)@...areDOTcom> wrote in message news:Hx93pr.vHI@lugnet.com... (...) need (...) brick (...) etc (...) I bet if you add this up, and add a good brick selection, you wind up in the several hundred parts range. (...) (20 years ago, 5-May-04, to lugnet.general, lugnet.lego)                                Re: Color Change - Final Update - Track —Mark Bellis             (...) I'm just eager that the track should not change *again*. OK, new light grey would be OK, and new dark grey tolerable at a push (it makes old dark grey look silly) but given that track pieces are some of the most expensive ones, changing them (...) (20 years ago, 5-May-04, to lugnet.general, lugnet.lego)                                RE: Color Change - Final Update - Track —Tamyra Teed             <SNIPPAGE> (...) the 9V (...) hobby! (...) but (...) was (...) that (...) I'm sorry, I just don't get this, When I look at a train layout, I'm not looking at the damn track... I'm looking at what's running on the track. And when you think about it, (...) (20 years ago, 6-May-04, to lugnet.general, lugnet.lego)                            Re: Color Change - Final Update - Track —Wesley Davis           Frank, I'm surprised you didn't mention one of the brown parts we love: Ship hulls. The primary problems with the new colors is that the new greys look like metal, not stone. In the same way, the old brown looks like wood. But a chocolate-colored (...) (20 years ago, 5-May-04, to lugnet.general, lugnet.lego)                            Re: Color Change - Final Update - Track —Mark Bellis           (...) Yes, old brown is wood, new brown is chocolate, sadly as much use for realistic modelling as a chocolate teapot. Rather edible looking too :) Mark (20 years ago, 5-May-04, to lugnet.general, lugnet.lego)                        Re: Color Change - Final Update —Ray Sanders           (...) Maybe.. but perhaps not. In some cases, BL sellers may have sufficient stock of older sets that they are waiting for things to sort out a bit. As an analogy.. some oil wells remain idle until the crude trading reaches a certain level. I think (...) (20 years ago, 5-May-04, to lugnet.general, lugnet.lego)                        Re: Color Change - Final Update —Ken Nagel         (...) SNIP Would that be "Classic" brown or the new "Universal" Mega-Blok looking brown? -Ken (20 years ago, 6-May-04, to lugnet.general, lugnet.lego)                    Re: Color Change - Final Update — Jake McKee         (...) What kind of detail parts? I'm hoping to put together a list that I can pass along. Thanks! Jake --- Jake McKee Community Liaison LEGO Community Development (20 years ago, 5-May-04, to lugnet.general, lugnet.lego)                        Re: Color Change - Final Update —Jason Spears           (...) Headlight bricks 1x1 round bricks basic plates & bricks in various sizes (as (URL) Ted mentioned>) 1x1x2 brick with hinge arches - 1x6, 1x6x2, 1x4, 1x8x2, 1x5x4, 1x3, 1x12x3 windows - 1x4x3 (brown) and the 1x2x2 2/3 with rounded top (all 3) (...) (20 years ago, 5-May-04, to lugnet.general, lugnet.lego, FTX)                          Re: Color Change - Final Update —Larry Pieniazek           (...) Mostly the modified plates and bricks that give you good greeblization. The plate-modifieds for starters... 1x1 plate with clips (all three kinds), 1x2 plates with handles, with rods, with offset studs 1x2 tile with rod, 1x2 tile with one stud (...) (20 years ago, 5-May-04, to lugnet.general, lugnet.lego)                            Re: Color Change - Final Update —Mike Petrucelli             Well ideally they would just go back to making everything in the original colors. I really wanted to like the new Spiderman and Harry Potter sets too. The mini-Star Destroyer set really irks me though. The perfect space accessory pack ruined by new (...) (20 years ago, 5-May-04, to lugnet.general, lugnet.lego)                            Re: Color Change - Final Update —Constantine Hannaher           (...) It is my unresearched opinion that the Bracket 1x2 - 1x4 2436 has NEVER appeared in dark gray. Perhaps that's a quality that could nudge it up in the list? Constantine (20 years ago, 6-May-04, to lugnet.general, lugnet.lego)                            Re: Color Change - Final Update —David Laswell           (...) Peeron supports your opinion. If we're getting into unproduced pieces, I've got a MOC that is now on permanent hiatus because I need four of these in classic light-grey: (URL) bought a bunch of pieces to complete the MOC, and I've just (...) (20 years ago, 6-May-04, to lugnet.general, lugnet.lego)                        Re: Color Change - Final Update —Frank Filz           "Jake McKee" <jacob.mckee@america.lego.com> wrote in message news:Hx92GJ.LJy@lugnet.com... (...) important, than (...) pass (...) Hmm, the problem is that there are probably >1000 parts that really need to be available in a color to allow good (...) (20 years ago, 5-May-04, to lugnet.general, lugnet.lego)                        Re: Color Change - Final Update —Johannes Koehler           Hello! (...) Well, you said "you can’t say 'the whole range of parts!'", so leave out this: (URL) and make all of the remaining parts available in the old colours. Make them also available not only in special bulk sets but in every set* you (TLC) is (...) (20 years ago, 5-May-04, to lugnet.general, lugnet.lego, FTX)                            Re: Color Change - Final Update —Mark Rideout           (...) Crap - that is the only piece that I really care about! ;) -mark (20 years ago, 6-May-04, to lugnet.general, lugnet.lego, FTX)                        Re: Color Change - Final Update —Richard Morton         "Jake McKee" <jacob.mckee@america.lego.com> wrote in message news:Hx92GJ.LJy@lugnet.com... (...) important, than (...) pass (...) 1 x 1 headlight bricks 1 x 2 jumper plates But Jake already knows this - I've been nagging for decent bulk amounts of (...) (20 years ago, 5-May-04, to lugnet.general, lugnet.lego)                        Re: Color Change - Final Update —John Riley           (...) Technic pins are generally hidden from view; their colors rarely matter (sole exception I've seen: the penny flag last year, where white technic pins were stars in the US Flag). Technic connectors, on the other hand... I look through my entire (...) (20 years ago, 5-May-04, to lugnet.general, lugnet.lego)                            Re: Color Change - Final Update —David Laswell           (...) They're usually hidden enough that light-bley shouldn't matter, but even just the pin tips on the blue/tan axle-pins stick out pretty bad compared to the old black/light-grey versions. Build a red TECHNIC creation and you'll see what I'm (...) (20 years ago, 6-May-04, to lugnet.general, lugnet.lego)                        Re: Color Change - Final Update —David Laswell         (...) They're just making the two axle-pins in blue (friction) and tan (non-friction). That's bad enough. The only pin that's ever been made in dark-grey is the 1.5 pin, and light-bley is close enough to light-grey that what few pins they'll (...) (20 years ago, 6-May-04, to lugnet.general, lugnet.lego)                    Re: Color Change - Final Update —Jan-Albert van Ree       (...) You HAVE to be joking.... there's NO railroad tie, either wood, concrete or whatever other material that has such a blue tone in it. They'd even do better to simply convert it to brown than to use the new dark grey color. -- Jan-Albert van Ree (20 years ago, 5-May-04, to lugnet.general, lugnet.lego)                Re: Color Change - Final Update —Mike Walsh       "Jake McKee" <jacob.mckee@america.lego.com> wrote in message news:Hx8uCD.19rs@lugnet.com... [ ... snipped ... ] (...) likely be (...) train (...) which (...) you (...) All five of the current 9v track elements should continue to be produced in the (...) (20 years ago, 5-May-04, to lugnet.general, lugnet.lego)                    Re: Color Change - Final Update —Frank Filz       (...) track (...) Hmm, BURPS. Actually, I think you could almost get away with the rectangular ones. The triangular ones aren't that useful in bulk. I did use a bunch in my cliff scene, but only because I wanted to conserve rectangular BURPS. If I (...) (20 years ago, 5-May-04, to lugnet.general, lugnet.lego)                    Re: Color Change - Final Update [padding,padding,padding,padding] —Thomas Garrison         (...) It is available in blue (URL) not as a service pack. The 48 x 48 baseplate is the most important choice for a part to have in gray, and it would be great to see service packs of that baseplate in gray, blue, and maybe tan, green, and clear. (...) (20 years ago, 5-May-04, to lugnet.general, lugnet.lego)                    Re: Color Change - Final Update —Jeff Shiner         (...) - SNIP - (...) Yes.. BURPS is a good suggestion. Most of us have enough old grey Lego to connect these together to make decent size hills. I think the same is true for the castle walls from another post (Anthony's I believe). To suggest that (...) (20 years ago, 5-May-04, to lugnet.general, lugnet.lego)                    Re: Color Change - Final Update —Dave Schuler         (...) That's a fine suggestion--I'd love to see (or perhaps love to sea) a modular ocean base a la the modular space base. I wouldn't even mind a green 48x48, while we're at it. And was it ever determined if the trans-white was officially available? (...) (20 years ago, 5-May-04, to lugnet.general)                        Re: Color Change - Final Update —Paul Sinasohn         Speaking of baseplates, U agree that 48 x 48 in Trans-clear would be fantastic (I could easily buy a couple dozen). But more importantly, can we have some BROWN large baseplates?? The 32 x 32 baseplate in brown was only available in one set (#232), (...) (20 years ago, 5-May-04, to lugnet.general)                        Re: Color Change - Final Update —Paul Sinasohn         Ooops - *** I *** agree. I can't speak for you. (...) Paul Sinasohn LUGNET #115 BAYLUG / BAYLTC (20 years ago, 5-May-04, to lugnet.general)                    Re: Color Change - Final Update —Kelly McKiernan       (...) I'll add my voice in with Frank and Mike on this one. The bulk tubs in the new color (as some suggest, maybe even with Castle-specific parts) would be an excellent way to get the new colors into circulation. Maybe as a S@H exclusive or (...) (20 years ago, 5-May-04, to lugnet.general, lugnet.lego)                    Re: Color Change - Final Update —Jason Spears         (...) Adding my voice to this, a new bulk castle tub would be fantastic. Bulk as in 3 cents per part, or lower mind you. Also, if adding the cost of the tub made the set prohibitive, I still think it would sell if packaged otherwise. Those tubs are (...) (20 years ago, 5-May-04, to lugnet.general, lugnet.lego, FTX)                    Re: Color Change - Final Update —Larry Pieniazek       (...) Yes! The 6 packs that were done for us recently used up 6 SKUs. We've been told in the past that there's an SKU shortage. Bulk tubs use up a LOT less SKUs than their equivalent in service packs, ne? Run off 2 or 3 bulk tubs with a decent (...) (20 years ago, 5-May-04, to lugnet.general, lugnet.lego, FTX)                    Re: Color Change - Final Update —Mike Petrucelli       (...) I can't help but see the irony in getting something like this. We have wanted things like this for a while but if we were to get them now it would be to build up a stock of the new colors. It would definitely help with accepting and being able (...) (20 years ago, 5-May-04, to lugnet.general, lugnet.lego, FTX)                Re: Color Change - Final Update —Daniel Barrett       Thank you for the follow up on this issue Jake. As for what to continue to produce in the classic gray's and brown please review this closely: (URL) Daniel (20 years ago, 5-May-04, to lugnet.general, lugnet.lego)                    Re: Color Change - Final Update —Thomas Stangl       Yes, and release it in an "Old Gray" colored tub, as pictured! Better yet, use the OLD glue for the labels - the new stuff doesn't peel off easily like the old, resorting to chemical use to remove them, resulting in dull sides to the tubs. None of (...) (20 years ago, 5-May-04, to lugnet.general, lugnet.lego)                Re: Color Change - Final Update —Tony Hafner       (...) Please add: 48x48 baseplates -- Tony Hafner www.hafhead.com (20 years ago, 5-May-04, to lugnet.general, lugnet.lego)                Re: Color Change - Final Update —Ronald Borchert       (...) So maybe the fact that many AFOLs will not buy these rubbish colours for having no mud in their collections bears some good news for you. I think you will agree that i.e. a clear castle-wall in unique grey looks much better than a wall with (...) (20 years ago, 5-May-04, to lugnet.general, lugnet.lego)                Re: Color Change - Final Update —Avery Christy       Hello Jake, I know that you have heard a lot of... concerns, but I would like to add some praise along with my input. I am glad that TLC has decided to retain the gray, brown, drk gray colors. I was terribly afraid that TLC had done away with these (...) (20 years ago, 5-May-04, to lugnet.general, lugnet.lego)                Re: Color Change - Final Update —John Riley       In lugnet.general, Jake McKee wrote: <VERY LARGE SNIP> Hi Jake, Well, I know you've been reading this thread; I've seen a few responses already. I think there are two reasons why AFOLs are angry and/or upset with the color change: (1) The new colors (...) (20 years ago, 5-May-04, to lugnet.general, lugnet.lego)                    Re: Color Change - Final Update —John Radtke       (...) I want to emphasize (2) as well with respect to the future of classic colors vs. new colors. Whatever classic color parts may be supplied it is of utmost importance to clearly identify them. This was obviously done with the limited edition (...) (20 years ago, 5-May-04, to lugnet.general, lugnet.lego)                Re: Color Change - Final Update —Jeff Findley       (...) I'm shocked no one has asked the following question: Just which colors are "universal" and which colors aren't? I'm assuming from what you write that non-universal colors can be changed, from time to time. As an AFOL, it would be great to know (...) (20 years ago, 5-May-04, to lugnet.general, lugnet.lego)                    Re: Color Change - Final Update —Tracey Greenwood       (...) A few of us asked way back at the beginning of the thread this very question... Tracey (20 years ago, 5-May-04, to lugnet.general, lugnet.lego)                    Re: Color Change - Final Update —Jeff Findley       (...) I don't know how I missed that. Anyway, I'm really hoping that Lego decides to let the AFOL community know what colors are "universal" and what colors are not. I personally thought that the grays would be "universal" since they've been around (...) (20 years ago, 6-May-04, to lugnet.general, lugnet.lego)                    Re: Color Change - Final Update — Jake McKee       (...) I mentioned yesterday (but has probably gotten lost in the multitude of posts) that I'm working on getting this. I hope to publish an update today, but it may be Monday as there is a Danish holiday tomorrow, and it's already getting late in (...) (20 years ago, 6-May-04, to lugnet.general, lugnet.lego)                Re: Color Change - Final Update —David Weiler-Thiessen       In lugnet.general, Jake McKee wrote: Hi Jake Thx for the update. Sounds like LEGO is trying to make the best of a situation that went bad unintentionally. (...) Regarding the service packs. While I appreciate the gesture, I'm not sure it is (...) (20 years ago, 5-May-04, to lugnet.general, lugnet.lego)                Re: Color Change - SLOPES WANTED —Kevin Salm       The solid news is appreciated. Personally, I still don't believe that the Lugnet community knows the true reasons for the color change. Also, I don't think we have heard of the "good" effects these changes were supposed to produce. I have been (...) (20 years ago, 5-May-04, to lugnet.general, lugnet.lego, FTX)                    Re: Color Change - SLOPES WANTED —Larry Pieniazek         (...) Good catch! I agree, a well rounded pack including concave and convex corners and caps, in each of the popular slope factors (33, 45, 75), and another one with the basic slopes themselves, would be well received. (20 years ago, 5-May-04, to lugnet.lego, FTX)                      Re: Color Change - color names —David Gregory         (...) Awesome naming method! I had just gotten used to calling old/classic Grays & Browns "True Gray" & "True Brown," and the new grays and browns "false gray" and "false brown." I like your nomenclature better though. I think I'll start using it. (...) (20 years ago, 6-May-04, to lugnet.lego, FTX)                        Re: Color Change - color names —David Laswell           (...) Why stop there? Call it Nazi Death-Slaver Grey and you get the whole spectrum. (20 years ago, 6-May-04, to lugnet.lego, FTX)                            Re: Color Change - color names —Kelly McKiernan           (...) OK, now that's just over the line. Assigning a color as "Nazi" is bad enough, but adding "Death Slaver" to it pushes it over. Don't like the color change? Fine. But I personally take exception when someone associates a relatively minor change (...) (20 years ago, 6-May-04, to lugnet.lego, FTX)                            Re: Color Change - color names —Markham Carroll             "Kelly McKiernan" <kelly@anagrafyxx.com> wrote in message news:Hx9zyp.13J@lugnet.com... (...) Isn't it even worse when certain Nazis take a few newsgroup posts a little too seriously? ;) It's not like someone's really going to connect LEGO with (...) (20 years ago, 9-Apr-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)                            Re: Color Change - color names —Mark Riley             (...) FYI, you might find this post of interest: (URL) Though I get the impression that "Wehrmachtsgrau" doesn't necessarily imply "Nazi" but military or army gray, instead. At least Babel Fish says it means "Armed forces-grey". Mark (20 years ago, 6-May-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)                            Re: Color Change - color names —David Laswell           (...) It was intended in a sarcastic vein, which I appear to have failed to adequately express. I fully understand the logic behind calling it "Nazi grey" (I actually prefer "gun-metal grey"), on the basis that it's reported to be very close to the (...) (20 years ago, 6-May-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)                        Color Change - color names - a more serious note —Lindsay Frederick Braun         (...) I have been having a bit of trouble with the Bricklink convention, that is the use of "bluish grey" (less with "reddish brown" however). It seems to me like a better solution would be to call them *cold* greys--which they really do seem to me (...) (20 years ago, 9-May-04, to lugnet.lego)                    Re: Darned color issue won't leave my small mind alone... —Aaron West       -Snip!- (...) I wonder what the Crayola company would have said about this. I think that the proper terms are definitely not the same as the old, but as you have said have new names. It's as though we are being "Enron-ed" by LEGO into accepting that (...) (20 years ago, 9-May-04, to lugnet.lego, FTX)                    Re: Darned color issue won't leave my small mind alone... —David Laswell       (...) "Look: new colors!" They do it all the time, especially on the 64-crayon box (I can't remember exactly how often they do it, but the box always has some sort of graphic designed to catch your attention when they rotate new colors in). Of (...) (20 years ago, 9-May-04, to lugnet.lego, FTX)                Re: Color Change - Final Update —Mark Bellis       (...) Thanks for listening and understanding. Sorry your ears are taking a bashing! You're doing better than other companies would do. Please explain the "good thinking" though. IMHO "good thinking" would be to make future new colours more realistic (...) (20 years ago, 5-May-04, to lugnet.general, lugnet.lego) !                     Re: Color Change - Final Update —Kevin Blocksidge       In lugnet.general, Mark Bellis wrote: (and it bears repeating) (...) (snipping of more great ideas) I agree with all of this. Very well written, Mark. There is really nothing else for me to add. Jake, listen up! ~Kevin Blocksidge (20 years ago, 5-May-04, to lugnet.general, lugnet.lego)                Re: Color Change - Final Update —Paul Sinasohn       (...) I look forward to the list of 'universal' colors! (...) I'd like to see train wheelsets (trucks)(2878c01) and decorative sides (2871) maintained in the old gray color. It would be nice to have some variety for train modeling. I agree that the (...) (20 years ago, 5-May-04, to lugnet.general, lugnet.lego)                Re: Color Change - Final Update —Jan-Albert van Ree       (this is pretty much a translation of what I wrote on 1000steine.de already) (...) Sorry I can't see ANY good news, all I see is a big PR blurb in a desparate attempt to regain some lost ground. (...) So much for your corporate values then.... (...) (20 years ago, 5-May-04, to lugnet.general, lugnet.lego)                  Re: Color Change - Final Update —Aaron West       I thank you for continuing to advance this news to us. I suppose it's really not so bad, as long as LEGO colors don't bounce all over the rainbow range every few years. Given enough time, I will be able to build a collection of the said colors in (...) (20 years ago, 5-May-04, to lugnet.general, lugnet.lego)                Re: Color Change - Final Update —Matt Sekerak       Well, Jake, I admire your willingness to again appear before a mob to weather another volley. Those above you at TLC can learn a great deal from your genuine devotion to the product and its loyal (until now) users. I believe TLC has made its (...) (20 years ago, 5-May-04, to lugnet.general, lugnet.lego, FTX)                    Re: Color Change - Final Update —Matt Sekerak       okay, strike from the record the second blunder about not admitting the bad decsion. I'm reading apologies, pardom me. (20 years ago, 5-May-04, to lugnet.general, lugnet.lego, FTX)                Re: Color Change - Final Update —Jim Foulds       Jake, I have been quiet on the color issue since it was announced because I have been trying to determine how it would personally affect the hobby for me. This is my conclusion: I support Lego because I enjoy it for what it is, a good product that (...) (20 years ago, 5-May-04, to lugnet.general, lugnet.lego)                  Re: Color Change - Final Update —David Kohrman       (...) snip (...) snip (...) Thank you for the update. Being classified as universal colors really doesn't matter to me. I have no use for the new gray given their inorganic nature and it really wouldn't matter to me if they changed years from now. I (...) (20 years ago, 5-May-04, to lugnet.general, lugnet.lego)                Re: Color Change - Final Update —Leonard Hoffman       Jake, First let me say thank you again and again for all your time and patience dealing with what seems to be an endless number of cranky old weirdos. Okay, now to the nasty stuff. (...) Honestly, every time I open a new set with New Grey - the (...) (20 years ago, 5-May-04, to lugnet.general, lugnet.lego)                  Re: Color Change - Final Update —James Brink       Jake, Thanks for the update! (...) This doesn't really make sense to me. What's the point of having mottled looking light/dark grey trains running on a nicely matched dark grey track? Since the color change is permanent, start producing all elements (...) (20 years ago, 5-May-04, to lugnet.general, lugnet.lego)                Re: Color Change - Final Update —Adam Murtha       In lugnet.general, Jake McKee wrote: //SNIP// (...) Ok, what parts HAVE TO stay the old greys? And we can't say "everything"? How about everything but technic, because I don't buy technic and some of them seem to enjoy the new colour? What does Lego (...) (20 years ago, 5-May-04, to lugnet.general, lugnet.lego)                Re: Color Change - Universal Colours —Jeff Shiner       Jake, That brings about an interesting question that may have already been asked. What are the universal colours? Some seem obvious to me... but what about green or tan? Thanks, - Jeff (20 years ago, 5-May-04, to lugnet.general, lugnet.lego)                Re: Color Change - Final Update —Scott E. Sanburn       Jake & All, (...) First, thanks for posting information for us on this subject, I am sure you feel like drinking pink fluid sometimes when you do. : ) Seriously, I know a lot of people in the clubs I am involved with are upset about this, as I think (...) (20 years ago, 5-May-04, to lugnet.general, lugnet.lego)                Re: Color Change - Final Update —David Laswell       (...) Given your position, that would pretty much require having to resign, wouldn't it? (...) So did the thought process... (...) I hereby dub this the "Understatement of the Millennium". (...) Clearly "dark purple" is not a "universal" color. ;) (...) (20 years ago, 5-May-04, to lugnet.general, lugnet.lego, FTX)                Re: Color Change - Final Update —Bill Vollbrecht       (...) Thanks Jake, for once again reaching out to the community. I understand how the company works, and I am glad to hear that they are allowing some parts to be continued in the old colors! Having said that, I think the following would be great to (...) (20 years ago, 5-May-04, to lugnet.general, lugnet.lego)                Re: Color Change - Final Update —Ross Crawford       Wow! looks like I missed all the fun! I guess there's disadvantages being upside-down after all... (...) I think the main thing most AFOLs are worried about is unintentional changes, and bad quality, as seen in the new Knights Bus. Also I'd be (...) (20 years ago, 6-May-04, to lugnet.general, lugnet.lego)                Re: Color Change - Final Update —Ondrew Hartigan       (...) I figured as much. Oh well what can I do about it except stop purchasing brick or act like a spoiled 5yr old. Personally I don't want to do either so you can consider this a positive reply to your post (...) well that's an understatement (...) (20 years ago, 6-May-04, to lugnet.general, lugnet.lego)                Re: Color Change - Final Update —Jeff Szklennik       In lugnet.general, Jake McKee wrote: SNIP (...) Leave ALL colors untouched from now on. I can understand producing more or less of certain colors a year for manufacturing restraints, spicing up designs or producing other parts in rarer colors, but (...) (20 years ago, 6-May-04, to lugnet.general, lugnet.lego)                Re: Color Change - Final Update —Daniel Warren       (...) Personally, for myself, the only problem the new colors represent is storage. I cannot possibly mix them in with the old colors. What I don't like is how the new Strata 1000pc tub comes with the stupid lime, orange and light blue colors. It (...) (20 years ago, 6-May-04, to lugnet.general, lugnet.lego)                    Re: Color Change - Final Update —David Laswell       (...) If the roads are only 4-wide, the cars will clip each other as they drive past in opposing lanes (ask Steve Ringe how much of a problem that is). Also, not everyone builds 4-wide cars. The only one I've ever built uses the 5-wide twin (...) (20 years ago, 6-May-04, to lugnet.general, lugnet.lego)                    Re: Color Change - Final Update —Daniel Warren       (...) So what you're saying is only on sets like Spiderman, Harry Potter, Star Wars and the new Ferarri ones will this be in affect? Wasn't aware of the above, thanks. (...) And sometimes they even use the same sculpt on multiple figures (Lalime of (...) (20 years ago, 6-May-04, to lugnet.general, lugnet.lego)                    Re: Color Change - Final Update —David Laswell       (...) That's what we've been told. Licensed characters (SW, HP, Spiderman, Dora, etc.) and real-world personalities (Ferrari drivers). Of course, with how badly the NBA minifig 3-pack sold, you have to wonder why the retail chains would still be (...) (20 years ago, 6-May-04, to lugnet.general, lugnet.lego)                Re: Color Change - Final Update —Marc Nelson, Jr.       I'm glad to hear that TLC might continue service packs in the original colors. Could you give us an idea of how the current original-color packs are doing, sales-wise? This is what I would like to see continue to be sold in the original colors: (...) (20 years ago, 6-May-04, to lugnet.general, lugnet.lego, FTX) !!                 Re: Color Change - Final Update (some ideas) —Jonathan Wilson       (...) Personally, I think that the best way to go is to take the 6 main themes (Castle, Space, Town, Train, Pirates, Technic) and figure out, for each of them, what parts builders of those themes most want (and for each part, whether they want old (...) (20 years ago, 6-May-04, to lugnet.general, lugnet.lego)                Re: Color Change - Final Update —John Gerlach       (...) Bah... I'm simply leaning towards finding a different hobby to spend my money on. I've got enough bricks to continue to build for a while, but after that maybe I'll just stop buying your products. There are a few sets that I think are pretty (...) (20 years ago, 6-May-04, to lugnet.general, lugnet.lego)                    Re: Color Change - Final Update —Jan-Albert van Ree       (...) My sentiments exactly. About 5 years ago I packed up my h0 layout, due to time shortage and high cost. Right now LEGO is almost as expensive and I'll have loads more time now that I won't be doing much MOC's anymore either. (20 years ago, 6-May-04, to lugnet.general, lugnet.lego)                Re: Color Change - Final Update —Bruce Schlickbernd       (...) Bummer. (...) Translation: it will embarrass too many people to change back, and now we guarantee that we won't change back and embarrass them! (Humor alert! Do not take seriously! Jusss...ssst teasing...) :-) (...) Really basic bricks: (...) (20 years ago, 6-May-04, to lugnet.general, lugnet.lego)                Re: Color Change - Final Update —Reinhard "Ben" Beneke       [snipped lots of not positive blabla] (...) I do not feel understod at all. If this is your final update, you have finally lost a consumer, a big fan, a big supporter and promoter. My buys for this years sets is less than 1% of what I bought in the (...) (20 years ago, 6-May-04, to lugnet.general, lugnet.lego)                    Re: Color Change - Final Update —Matthew J. Chiles       (...) Ben and also John Gerlach have summed up how I feel exactly. Goodbye Lego - it was a great 30 years, and I'll still enjoy my existing collection. But I sure won't be able to be a big supporter, fan, promoter or consumer any more. You let us (...) (20 years ago, 7-May-04, to lugnet.general, lugnet.lego)                Re: Color Change - Final Update —Michael DeRosa       In lugnet.general, Jake McKee wrote: First, Jake, let me say that I really appreciate you keeping this communication with the AFOLs going. I feel utterly betrayed by TLC as a loyal customer and from their behavior thus far regarding some of the (...) (20 years ago, 6-May-04, to lugnet.general, lugnet.lego)                Re: Color Change - Final Update —Todd Lehman       (...) Monorail track. --Todd (20 years ago, 6-May-04, to lugnet.general, lugnet.lego)                      Re: Color Change - Final Update —Jeff Findley         (...) You assume that the monorail will be coming back. Do you know something I don't know, or is this an example of whishful thinking? :-) I'd love for the Monorail to come back. I've got the expansion track set (bought long ago at a Toys R Us on (...) (20 years ago, 6-May-04, to lugnet.general, lugnet.lego)                    Re: Color Change - Final Update —Jan-Albert van Ree         (...) OMG, ROTFL! That absolutely is the most funny reply I've seen in this thread :D (20 years ago, 6-May-04, to lugnet.general, lugnet.lego)                    Re: Color Change - Final Update —Aaron West       (...) Oh, since you're at it: Tall Spruce Trees. -Aaron- (20 years ago, 9-May-04, to lugnet.general, lugnet.lego)                    Re: Color Change - Final Update —David Laswell       (...) You want grey trees? ;P (20 years ago, 9-May-04, to lugnet.general, lugnet.lego)                Re: Color Change - Final Update —stephen gralinski       I have to say I am not happy with the final outcome. But, if Lego is serious about makeing a select few parts avaible in the old color schem I could live with the followling: 1) train track 2) 1 x 2 brick 3) 1 x 4 brick 4) 2 x 2 brick 5) 2 x 4 brick (...) (20 years ago, 6-May-04, to lugnet.general, lugnet.lego)                Re: Color Change - Final Update —Ley Ward       Hello Jake, First to respond to your request: At a minimum, I would request all bricks, plates and slopes in all three classic colours. I would further stand behind the requests others have made for specialty pieces. I would add the new pieces which (...) (20 years ago, 6-May-04, to lugnet.general, lugnet.lego, FTX)                Re: Color Change - Final Update —Paulo Renato       Hi Jake, I didn't bought any of the 2004 sets and i think i will not. I'm really frustrated with this color change. I was thinking what - apart for changing back the colors (the wiser move: if there's anything worst than making a mistake it is not (...) (20 years ago, 7-May-04, to lugnet.general, lugnet.lego)                Re: Color Change - Final Update —Fredrik Christiansen       Keep the original grey colors for - the minifig torso/arms/legs colors - all the train parts (tracks, doors, windows, etc - all the basic bricks and plates (as sold in the bulk packs) - the 48x48 building plate I have not posted anything yet (...) (20 years ago, 7-May-04, to lugnet.general, lugnet.lego)                Re: Color Change - Final Update —Marck Franssen       With respect to the old light grey, I cannot figure out which set cannot be build in the new light grey. I like the new light grey much better. When I can, I will probably sell all my old light grey parts and obtain new light grey parts. This (...) (20 years ago, 8-May-04, to lugnet.general, lugnet.lego)                Re: Color Change - Final Update —Rocco J. Carello       (...) Jake, thanks for the update. I appreciate your efforts in communicating with us, and I see you take a lot of unnecessary abuse on here because of it. Anyway, I believe you are asking the wrong question here. I don't think there is a part that (...) (20 years ago, 9-May-04, to lugnet.general, lugnet.lego)                Re: Color Change - Final Update —Steven Lane       (...) Would that be an old grey coloured bunker or a new grey coloured bunker? Steve (20 years ago, 9-May-04, to lugnet.general, lugnet.lego)                Living with the Color change —Eric Brok       Yes we do have a life besides the hobby, and in the grand scheme of life the Color Change is trivial. But within the realm of our hobby, the change is severely annoying on a daily basis, probably for years to come. That's why the issue can't be 'put (...) (20 years ago, 9-May-04, to lugnet.general, lugnet.lego, lugnet.color, FTX)                Re: Color Change - Final Update —Jules Pitt     Dear Jake, I'm sure you have likely had your fill of AFOLs micromanaging TLCs business, but I really can't resist here. There are two things off the top of my head that I hope that you and TLC will consider: 1. Master Builders get any part in any (...) (20 years ago, 11-May-04, to lugnet.general, lugnet.lego)

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