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From my UK perspective, perhaps the best way to “prevent the next Timothy McVeigh” is to crack down on the over-armed libertarian (although some are also anti-semitic /white supremacists) "militiamen" compounds which populate hilltops in places (...) (23 years ago, 13-Jun-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) Isn't that supposed to be what set McVeigh off in the first place (Waco, Ruby Ridge)? (23 years ago, 13-Jun-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) What "set McVeigh off" may well have been the paranoia which surrounds these events. You should not forget that McVeigh and those at Ruby Ridge had links with libertarian white supremacists. The fact that the FBI has been clumsy in the past, (...) (23 years ago, 13-Jun-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) Idaho...?! I've been to Idaho, these folks don't offer much threat. Are you sure you didn't mean Michigan? Besides, most of the white supremacists I've come across tend to be John Bircher folks... Just helping you fan the flames... Cheers, - (...) (23 years ago, 13-Jun-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) Which compounds are these? I'm not familiar with any such "libertarian" compounds. ++Lar (23 years ago, 13-Jun-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) Which "libertarian" white supremacists were these? The viewpoints are totally incompatible. That's twice in this thread you've made this false connection. ++Lar (23 years ago, 13-Jun-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) Which "libertarian" white supremacists were these? The viewpoints are totally incompatible. That's twice in this thread you've made this false connection. ++Lar (23 years ago, 13-Jun-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) It is based the a serialisation of a book by Jon Ronson : (URL) read serialisation of the book and heard an interview with him in the BBC. He is clear that those who were at Ruby Ridge and Waco are "heroes of the libertarian movement". (...) (23 years ago, 14-Jun-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) I may well. My US geogrphy is poor. (...) OK, who is john bircher? Scott A (...) (23 years ago, 14-Jun-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) Do these poeple not all tend to group together in readiness for the day the FBI comes to get them and take away their rights? Scott A (...) (23 years ago, 14-Jun-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) 100% (23 years ago, 14-Jun-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) Avoiding the question I think. Interestingly, I searched for "militia libertarian racist" on google and it came up with this site: (URL) you search that page for occurrences of "libertarian" you will see that I was not all wrong. Scott A (23 years ago, 14-Jun-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) Yes and no. "Coloured" (sic: colored <g>) is a really poor term that isn't particularly used in America. It carries the implication that europeans are "normal" and others are not. In the sense Larry meant it, I agree. But in the sense that you (...) (23 years ago, 14-Jun-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) Thanks for the pointer. Scott A (...) (23 years ago, 14-Jun-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) Well, heck--you've met pretty much the entire Party. (URL) Dave! (23 years ago, 14-Jun-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) Why? Was the message of the SCLC less valid because SCLC members were mostly black? Was the message of AIM less valid because AIM was mostly native american? I resent the implication that groups need to be "ethnically balanced" to have valid (...) (23 years ago, 14-Jun-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) Ok, what is SCLC or AIM? (...) How do you know that we are more white - you only assume (as I do). Scott A (...) (23 years ago, 14-Jun-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) Ok, what is SCLC or AIM? (...) How do you know that we are more white - you only assume (as I do). That is not really the question (LUGNET does not attempt to represent the views of society). The question is : Why is the LP so "white"? Scott A (...) (23 years ago, 14-Jun-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) Since I share Bruce's misgivings on this subject, I'll mention a few thoughts, too. The validity or invalidity of the LP's views is, of course, wholly independent of the racial, cultural, age, or gender makeup of the party, but that's not what (...) (23 years ago, 14-Jun-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) American groups working for political or social change. What exactly they were advocating isn't important to my point. (...) No, I count noses in fest pictures. It may be an invalid inference from that to the makeup of lugnet as a whole but (...) (23 years ago, 14-Jun-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) Let's dig into that a bit... Is that an accurate supposition? That is, *are* there things that are "good for you" that you wouldn't necessarily choose to do? We know that's true in the individual case, right? I know that exercising more and (...) (23 years ago, 15-Jun-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) I would like to be the judge of that. (...) Hmm. So you are keeping a count? What sort of a person would do that? It is not a thing I worry about. (...) Not much more. I have been to 1 fest. I think the makeup was ~10-20% scottish, and (...) (23 years ago, 15-Jun-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) I have no idea what the SCLC is, so I have no real opinion on it. (...) One could argue that you are using your memebership fee to invest in a Libertarian future. Your fellow members may hope for a return on that investment in the longer or (...) (23 years ago, 15-Jun-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) Indeed. The notion that a bunch of white guys can sit around constructing a libertarian dreamland which will be on benefit to all is a complete anathema to me. Scott A (23 years ago, 15-Jun-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) I *don't care* what the makeup of LUGNET or the hobby is. I never said I did. I just said it wasn't the same as the overall population. When you challenged me I went off and counted noses at that point in order to see if my hunch was right. It (...) (23 years ago, 15-Jun-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: The Libertarian National Socialist Green Party (was Libertarian SPAM (Propaganda))
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(...) These ones: From (URL) Libertarian National Socialist Green Party is in part based upon the work of the Libertarian party from whom we gain appreciation for the individual spirit and independence from a morally-judgmental, active government. (...) (23 years ago, 15-Jun-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) I did not challenge you. This is all noise, BUT saying "I count noses in fest pictures" make it sound like you do it all the time. I'm glad you don't. (...) This is all noise, BUT where did you get the averages from? (...) It does for the LP (...) (23 years ago, 15-Jun-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) Dave voiced some concerns, which I addressed. Your contribution, on the other hand, consists of "why why why why why why". I had a 3 year old who did that, but he grew out of it. ++Lar (23 years ago, 15-Jun-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) You don't know the answer to his/her questions either? tut. tut. You are full of opinion, but you seldom wish to justify it. Perhaps you need to think a little deeper, rather that doing a simple cut 'n' paste with LP dogma? Answer my points (...) (23 years ago, 15-Jun-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) Let's start with an very very easy one: From: (URL) It was, at least for the 20+ fests, meetings, events, (...) Scott: This is all noise, BUT where did you get the averages from? =*= Next we will do a very easy one. Scott A (23 years ago, 15-Jun-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) Not going to play this game any more, sorry. I've justified my assertion that LUGNET members are more white and more male than the averages to my satisfaction, and surely to the satisfaction of any reasonable person. If it's not to *your* (...) (23 years ago, 15-Jun-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) Why does LUGNET (in general) attract well educated white males? From my observations, Larry is right. LUGNET does not represent the statistical make-up of the countries in which it resides. Is this due to education? Economical status? (...) (23 years ago, 15-Jun-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) Like I say Larry, you are full of opinion which you just cannot justify. All I am asking for, on this one, is a simple reference – but you are simply unable to mange it. (...) ...another insult - how adult. (...) I think it is a fair question (...) (23 years ago, 15-Jun-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: The Libertarian National Socialist Green Party (was Libertarian SPAM (Propaganda))
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(...) If these guys are Libertarians, then Tony Blair ought to be running for the chair of the Tories. Putting a word in your name doesn't make you that word. (...) If these guys are Greens, then Robert Byrd ought to be stumping for the presidential (...) (23 years ago, 15-Jun-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) It may be that that is the adult lego market? (...) Indeed. I think that starting point for looking at the background of the users of Lugnet is to look at the users on the internet and of Lego. Looking at Lugnet alone is useless in my opinion. (...) (23 years ago, 15-Jun-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) South Coast Liesure Club? Sunny California Libertarian Clique? Advanced Ideas Mechanics? Accuracy in Media? Asian Internet Marketing? I don't speak initial. Well, solved the second with my Apache buddy literally walking by as I was typing (...) (23 years ago, 15-Jun-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) Yup, that's pretty much it - and let me add that I don't regard the Libertarian Party as a white supremacist group in the slightest. I'd said what I did in part because I think the Libertarian Party *for it's own benefit* needs to address the (...) (23 years ago, 15-Jun-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) lol. If you understood UK politics you would know you have just shot yourself in the foot. (...) You are not reading the text I quoted. Think a little deeper Larry. From their platform: (URL) autonomy to the citizen Revert to authority of (...) (23 years ago, 15-Jun-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) Are you implying a causative relation between higher education and some realization that the Libertarian Party is the "correct" path? I'm not trying to misread you, but I want to understand if this is what you're asserting. Regardless (and (...) (23 years ago, 15-Jun-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) Southern Christian Leadership Conference. Pivotal in the anti segregation movement. (...) I think, stated that way, it's a fair enough (but not particularly important) question. I don't know "the answer" but I advanced my theory already. To (...) (23 years ago, 15-Jun-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) I doubt they have LP support! (...) What are you saying? Are you saying those "People currently on welfare" are the ones not joining the LP? i.e. "People currently on welfare" are all but white males? Scott A (...) (23 years ago, 15-Jun-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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<snipping> (BTW, before I start, SCLC was the movement originally led by Martin Luther King, Jr. - the Southern Christian Leadership Conference.) (...) Notice that this answer is waaaaay over-simplified. Please don't attack me on demographics, etc. (...) (23 years ago, 15-Jun-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) If that were the sum of the problem, then we chould just have Iron Man fix it for us. And where's HYDRA in all of this? Dave! FUT OT.FUN (23 years ago, 15-Jun-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) It would seem to me that you don't think it particularly important is an illustration of the problem. (...) And long term detriments may not be visible to all the Libertarian Party members. I did give a specific example (Libertarians allowing (...) (23 years ago, 15-Jun-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) Nick Fury, Agent of Shield, would seem to be the better bet. I was wondering if anyone would catch the reference. :-) Bruce (23 years ago, 15-Jun-01, to lugnet.off-topic.fun)
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(...) I accept that you don't think it's important, and I accept also your assertion that you would be willing to have society "start from scratch" (ie: with everyone truly equal) if it meant that Libertopia could be realized. (URL) In that way, you (...) (23 years ago, 15-Jun-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) Shiri, you're a woman--you have no place in a discussion of white male rule. Take off your shoes and return to the kitchen, please. (the preceding draconian chauvinism was brought to us on the basis that Shiri has repeatedly demonstrated her (...) (23 years ago, 15-Jun-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) Dave, you just made my day. ;-) Gotta run! -Shiri (23 years ago, 15-Jun-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) Thanks - I just never connect the initials to the group. :-) (...) It's a pretty good analogy that isn't quite right. Libertarians tend to be white, male, and middle-to-upper-middle class. That isn't rich. Shouldn't the rich be Libertarians if (...) (23 years ago, 15-Jun-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) No, I'm just alluding to the fact that certain individuals are attracted to certain types of groups. Nothing more. (...) I can't debate anything regarding the LP. I'm largely ignorant to it's political agenda and demographic, which seem to be (...) (23 years ago, 15-Jun-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Dave Schuler writes: <concern for long term viability under demographic skewing> Fair enough. However the long term viability of the LP as a party isn't that important to me, per se. While I am quite ready to throw (...) (23 years ago, 15-Jun-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) Doubt away, Thomas. You'd be wrong, though, if you thought that the LP was in favor of government mandated segregation. (...) Just giving off the cuff examples of some classes of people or organizations that might benefit from change but are (...) (23 years ago, 15-Jun-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) Might have missed the conclusion of that thread if it was in a different thread but haven't seen a demonstration of how this is actually detrimental (to anyone other than the business owner foolish enough to do it) yet. (...) (URL) queen of (...) (23 years ago, 15-Jun-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) Oh, I'm able, all right. I could just go to the UN site or wherever and quote demographics. I'm just unwilling to continue to spar with you about the assertion that LUGNET is demographically more white and more male than the norm because it's (...) (23 years ago, 15-Jun-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) Four messages back from the one I'm typing now. You haven't seen a demonstration of how this is detrimental?!? Did you miss the reasons for the civil rights movement? Ensuing riots in reaction to racism? I pointed out earlier that you get that (...) (23 years ago, 15-Jun-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) \ (...) Water vapor. Bruce (we'll skip the dicussion on light absorbtion and leave it for some anal-retentive type) :-) (23 years ago, 15-Jun-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) Oh, me too. I just don't see it as following from allowing (not requiring) businesses (with no barriers to entry) to choose who to serve. Jim Crow laws REQUIRED businesses to discriminate. ++Lar (23 years ago, 15-Jun-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) *Some* did. Note the first one listed here: (URL) I'm sure you know that businesses that *wanted* to discriminate were behind those laws - typifying all businesses in these states as innocent victims isn't exactly accurate. My point was that (...) (23 years ago, 15-Jun-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) On the topic of disenfranchisement... I feel pretty disenfranchised. Bush can take his 600 bucks and stick it. (...) "No person or corporation shall require any white female nurse to nurse in wards or rooms in hospitals, either public or (...) (23 years ago, 15-Jun-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) But it's not simply of matter of whether or not a restaurant will choose to serve "coloreds:" Businesses will be able to choose whether or not to hire people on basis of any bigoted notion they can think of. Further, because it can be quite (...) (23 years ago, 15-Jun-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) To which case are you alluding? Dave! (23 years ago, 15-Jun-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) A random thought just jumped into my head... Where would the civil rights movement be had the segregationist states NOT used the National Guard to attempt to quell the demonstations? Recently (actually on my way to the April Baylug meeting), I (...) (23 years ago, 15-Jun-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) Ruby Ridge. (23 years ago, 15-Jun-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) One thing that I saw as interesting, though I haven't explored the meaning completely, but the chair of the North Carolina Libertarian Party is a woman. She was also their candidate for governor. Of course in the picture on this page: (URL) (...) (23 years ago, 15-Jun-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) This is ploughed ground, but I'll revisit it. First, I think there would be a good amount of support for schools for the underpriviledged. In fact, in a free market, companies ought to want to support schools for all. Why? The more educated (...) (23 years ago, 15-Jun-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) Thanks! It was the neutral, non-partisan summation that confused me. 8^) Dave! (23 years ago, 15-Jun-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) That's not a bad assessment, but I think it applies more at the national level than at the level of any sub-national business or industry. Ploughed ground, to be sure, but to date the Libertopian argument hasn't been convincingly put forth. (...) (23 years ago, 15-Jun-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) The world is changing, regardless, though. Rather arrogant of them, eh, not to care what conclusions we come to here? Peace and freedom, in general, are winning. ++Lar (23 years ago, 15-Jun-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) "Them" who? The world at large? I'm not sure what you're referring to. Dave! (23 years ago, 15-Jun-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Libertarian Propaganda (was incorrectly referred to as SPAM)
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(...) Yes. The world at large not taking LUGNETters opinions into account! The very idea. :-) (23 years ago, 15-Jun-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) Well no wonder you feel disenfranchised - the American people rejected Dubya both on a majority and plurality base, and he's still the president. :-( But on a greater level, you feel disenfranchised because the political philosophy you support (...) (23 years ago, 15-Jun-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) Hey, you're making fun of my pseudo-seriousness! Now *I'm* disenfranchised! Dave! (23 years ago, 15-Jun-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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<snip> (...) Nitpicking here - that's not true. The public school system and the requirement to attend it were formed in the late 19th century. The general public wanted kids out of the cheap working force, because they were depressing wages for (...) (23 years ago, 15-Jun-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) This is one of my problems with the Libertarian Party. All that sounded good on paper. I like it...in theory. Unfortunately, it's doubtful that it will happen in reality. Businesses are all too often focused on the *now*, the next quarter, (...) (23 years ago, 15-Jun-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) That's not exactly true. It may not be mustering votes, but like I said, it doesn't have to win elections, per se. Peace and freedom ARE winning. So I can feel disenfranchised for my own reasons. (...) Preventing racism and requiring it are (...) (23 years ago, 15-Jun-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) Fascinating! Do you have a cite for that? Should be interesting reading. ++Lar (23 years ago, 15-Jun-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: The Libertarian National Socialist Green Party (was Libertarian SPAM (Propaganda))
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And how does this in ANY way make the Libertarian Party like the LNSGP? Taking a splinter group (hell, I wouldn't even call this a splinter group of the LP) and making the assumption that the main party is like the splinter group is so colossally (...) (23 years ago, 15-Jun-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) So what you are saying is that someone of one ethnicity can't think up ideas that benefit people outside of that ethnicity? Scott, THINK about what you type before you do so, this is making you look extremely stupid. (...) You haven't (...) (23 years ago, 15-Jun-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) This isn't a cite, but I'd heard the same thing and was reluctant to voice it, since I couldn't document it. And what did I say about fascinating?! Dave! (23 years ago, 15-Jun-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) No problem. I wouldn't know myself, if I hadn't just ended a year with an excellent U.S History class. :-) My teachers, both this year and last, were really amazing and I doubt I will forget what I learned any time soon. (...) Hmmm. Very good (...) (23 years ago, 15-Jun-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) Scott, Some of your inferences are going beyond asinine. I'll stop there, because all I'll do is give you the satisfaction of getting a rise out of someone, which is all you seem to want to do here. If you have a middle name, you should change (...) (23 years ago, 15-Jun-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Libertarian SPAM (Propaganda)
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(...) Um, who would that be? We don't have any of *those* here, do we? :-) PS, I think you spelled absorption wrong. :-) ++Lar (23 years ago, 15-Jun-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Libertarian SPAM (Propaganda)
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(...) True dat... but we are trying very hard to establish that not everyone currently unhappy with the U.S. government is necessarily libertarian and you ain't helping. :-) ++Lar (23 years ago, 15-Jun-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Libertarian SPAM (Propaganda)
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(...) Here's info for England: (URL) Education Act for England (one for Scotland followed soon after) established a national system of primary schools for children up to age 12; in 1880 attendance at primary school was made mandatory." I can't find (...) (23 years ago, 15-Jun-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Libertarian SPAM (Propaganda)
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But companies would want well-educated employees no matter WHERE they came from, and would most likely contribute on both the local AND national level. For a simple, real world example, look at Silicon Valley as a whole - finding qualified (...) (23 years ago, 15-Jun-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Libertarian SPAM (Propaganda)
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(...) Cool, found it! It's good to be the king! From: (URL) England and America, the evidence shows that majority literacy was achieved under the largely market-based systems of the early 19th century, and that the spread of completely tax-funded (...) (23 years ago, 15-Jun-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Libertarian SPAM (Propaganda)
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In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Matthew Gerber REGALLY PROCLAIMS: (...) YOU ARE the king of Cites. What a great cite. It seems to be saying that mandatory schooling didn't work. That seems to be somewhat anti-dogmatic (if you accept NEA dogma anyway). (...) (23 years ago, 15-Jun-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Libertarian SPAM (Propaganda)
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(...) More important--I'd like to know where she had an excellent US History class. Not in the US, I'd wager. 8^( Dave! (23 years ago, 15-Jun-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Libertarian SPAM (Propaganda)
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(...) Unless it was a private school, no bet. <GD&R> ++Lar (23 years ago, 15-Jun-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Libertarian SPAM (Propaganda)
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(...) I pointed out the real difference between your two examples - you consistently refuse to address it. (...) The scenario in regards to Jim Crow is the state government gave you an excuse to allow the segregated busing you wanted (you not being (...) (23 years ago, 15-Jun-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Libertarian SPAM (Propaganda)
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(...) Allow me to elucidate: the LP claims that it aims to help all society, yet the overwhelming majority of LP members are middle class white males. If, as has been asserted, the LP really is (or will be at some indeterminate future time) for the (...) (23 years ago, 15-Jun-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Libertarian SPAM (Propaganda)
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(...) I don't refute the King's cite, but I'd be interested to know precisely what "evidence shows that majority literacy was achieved under the largely market-based systems of the early 19th century," and what the "majority" represented. If it was (...) (23 years ago, 15-Jun-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Libertarian SPAM (Propaganda)
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(...) I in no way, shape, or form was lumping you in with Scott. I would never do that to you, Scott is in a class all by himself. (...) Retract away, Dave! (see, I can pull a ++Lar too!) Scott seems to want to state that a predominantly white male (...) (23 years ago, 15-Jun-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Libertarian SPAM (Propaganda)
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(...) Well, I am not a big fan of them either, but I was referring to the National Education Association, my apologies, I figured it would be clear from context... So don't burn the wrong wrongheaded group by mistake! (or is that miss-stake?) (...) (...) (23 years ago, 15-Jun-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Libertarian SPAM (Propaganda)
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(...) Nice! Anyone can use Dave! in a sentence--the real art comes in making it appear that my ! naturally wound up at the end! (...) Well, in that case, you're a big silly doofus-head. See? I can be inflammatory, too! 8^) (I think I've over-stepped (...) (23 years ago, 15-Jun-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Libertarian SPAM (Propaganda)
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(...) Um, that's not a Lar (0) I don't think, as while there ARE Doubting Thomases (1) I don't know of any Retracting Daves (2). 0 - much less a ++Lar 1 - prominent Figures of Speech 2 - and the image there is one I'd just rather not get into, er, (...) (23 years ago, 15-Jun-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Libertarian SPAM (Propaganda)
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(...) White as snow, despite my efforts to gain a tan (curse my Irish/German/ Ukrainian blood!) but I'm only barely middle class--could I still get in? Dave! (23 years ago, 15-Jun-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Libertarian SPAM (Propaganda)
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(...) That comment was bang on, as they say in the UK. Nicely worded, Dave! (...) Yes, what is it with you today? First the whole stoking a fire under the NEA without regard to which one, then this inflammatory thing? I'm burning to know what is (...) (23 years ago, 15-Jun-01, to lugnet.off-topic.fun)
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| | Re: Libertarian SPAM (Propaganda)
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(...) Ummmm? Not sure where to go here. Let's do this: (URL) can't copy the text out of the PDF file and put it here, so you'll have to go read it yourselves. Here's the gist: In 1813, Connecticut passed law to get businesses to educate their child (...) (23 years ago, 15-Jun-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Libertarian Suntan
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(...) Limit that to Ukrainian. I can get a tan. Irish/German/Dutch. Of course, this is all relative, since my wife and son can sit out in the sun all day and never burn. Bruce (23 years ago, 15-Jun-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Libertarian SPAM (Propaganda)
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Define Middle Class ;-) MC varies widely depending on the COL in your area. In the vast majority of the US, I'd be considered MC from my salary. Here in Sillycon Valley, I'm far from it - I couldn't even begin to afford a house in any way. (...) -- (...) (23 years ago, 15-Jun-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Libertarian SPAM (Propaganda)
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(...) Well, I can't do everything for you, but you might want to check out the book review that the cite points to: (URL) the book that review is about: "Market Education: The Unknown History", Coulson, Andrew J. (1999) ...and possibly the books (...) (23 years ago, 15-Jun-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Libertarian SPAM (Propaganda)
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(...) I think you're numbers on layoffs are a bit off... 10s of thousands of workers daily is quite a few. In Libertopia, there would certainly be no regulation of schools. Of course schools would vary all over the map as to how good an education (...) (23 years ago, 16-Jun-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Libertarian SPAM (Propaganda)
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(...) Sorry, should have said "announcing the laying off of tens of thousands of workers daily"...and I don't mean in total! Look at this from today's TechTV news: (URL) said it will take a $830 million restructuring charge, which is associated with (...) (23 years ago, 16-Jun-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | A piece of U.S. history (was: Re: Libertarian SPAM (Propaganda))
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Whew! What a long post. I've been typing for almost an hour. So careful, great ramble ahead, and the footnotes are almost as long as the post itself. ;-) (...) Matt already found some stuff for you and all, I just wanted to say that I didn't really (...) (23 years ago, 16-Jun-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Libertarian SPAM (Propaganda)
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(...) Uh, what *did* you say about fascinating? -Shiri (23 years ago, 16-Jun-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Libertarian SPAM (Propaganda)
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(...) Here: (URL) C. (23 years ago, 16-Jun-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: A piece of U.S. history (was: Re: Libertarian SPAM (Propaganda))
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In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Shiri Dori writes: <One of the best posts I've ever seen, especially in .debate...read it, seriously!> Shiri, 1) I want to give you a high-five, but can't figure out how to do it through the computer. 2) Give me the name (...) (23 years ago, 16-Jun-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: A piece of U.S. history (was: Re: Libertarian SPAM (Propaganda))
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<grinning and blushing at the same time> (...) Yeah, that's a tough one. ;-) (...) Hehe. It's Newton North High-School (NNHS), a public school. Your only problem would be the rent/house price in the town, probably. Sky-rocketing. Scary. -Shiri (23 years ago, 16-Jun-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Libertarian Suntan
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(...) I burn fairly readily, but that's not what annoys me. What annoys me is that, after burning to Crayola red one day, the next day I'm back to killer-whale-belly-white, with no transition hue. Always been that way. Dave! (23 years ago, 16-Jun-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Libertarian Propaganda (was incorrectly referred to as SPAM elsewhere in the thread)
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(...) Let's stipulate that, for the sake of discussion. What can be done? Or that is, how far can the LP go? Remember that the LP is the "Party of Principle". A lot of big internal spats happen because some action or message is proposed which seems (...) (23 years ago, 16-Jun-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Libertarian SPAM (Propaganda)
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(...) You are wrong. Youch, an insult! (...) Youch, an insult! Go back and read the 1st message in this thread, you will see this whole "debate" is a troll. BTW - I have no middle name. Scott A (...) (23 years ago, 18-Jun-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Libertarian SPAM (Propaganda)
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(...) So where do Dave and I differ on this? How is there a class is difference between our views? (...) Where did I say that? Where? I think they are less likely too. I think any ideas they would have would be treated very sceptically. But I do not (...) (23 years ago, 18-Jun-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Libertarian SPAM (Propaganda)
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(...) So where would that outlook stand on this story: (URL) (...) (23 years ago, 18-Jun-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Now: Women Was: Libertarian SPAM (Propaganda)
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(...) Us "women" do understand the message. You think I have time to be active in the Libertarian party? I'm too danged busy fighting all the other stereotypes out there, such as, I'm supposed to be the size of Kate Moss and all the other starving (...) (23 years ago, 18-Jun-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Now: Women Was: Libertarian SPAM (Propaganda)
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(...) This is a good example of poor snipping. Let me restore the salient portion to the above (before my name, immediately follwing the rest): "A fear by them that they *think* they *do* understand the Libertarian message (it's legit for businesses (...) (23 years ago, 18-Jun-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Libertarian SPAM (Propaganda)
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(...) Actually... Although water and the sky appear blue for the same reason, it is not directly related to water itself (in vapour or liquid form). Oxygen, nitrogen, and water molecules are all approximately the same size, which happens to be just (...) (23 years ago, 18-Jun-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Now: Women Was: Libertarian SPAM (Propaganda)
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(...) I think there are many pressures on men too. Modern man does not just go out and to a bit of huntin' and gatherin' - he also has to do all other sorts of other stuff. Both men & women are hounded by media images of what we should (...) (23 years ago, 18-Jun-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Now: Women Was: Libertarian SPAM (Propaganda)
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(...) Easy to ignore them, not so easy to deal with all the other people in the world/society around you that do not ignore them. And in fact buy into it. (...) Count? As in 2 plus 2 is 5? <grin> (...) As some one who lives within spitting distance (...) (23 years ago, 18-Jun-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Libertarian SPAM (Propaganda)
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(...) "(we'll skip the dicussion on light absorbtion and leave it for some anal-retentive type)" (restored snip) I knew some anal-retentive type would take the bait.... :-) Bruce (23 years ago, 18-Jun-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Libertarian SPAM (Propaganda)
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(...) Wow. A delayed reaction insult. It was just sitting there saying "don't touch me". Scott A (23 years ago, 18-Jun-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Libertarian SPAM (Propaganda)
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(...) ? But I didn't even mention absorption! Blathering on about absorption when discussing a phenomenon that is entirely due to scattering - now THAT would be anal-retentive. ;) Jeff J (23 years ago, 18-Jun-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Libertarian SPAM (Propaganda)
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Larry Pieniazek wrote in message ... (...) All (...) Really? (...) I am not asking what you *could* do, I am asking what you *did* do. (...) Nope, this is an illustration of how hard it is to get you to justify yourself on an exceedingly minor (...) (23 years ago, 18-Jun-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Is the sky blue in Libertopia
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(...) You're only proving my point. :-) Beside, the sky isn't blue. Bruce (lost somewhere in the SoCal haze) (23 years ago, 18-Jun-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Now: Women Was: Libertarian SPAM (Propaganda)
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<Important message: Please bear in mind that my questions are meant to be rhetorical, and not attacking. I am a white male, but I am not about keeping the woman down. Thank You.> (...) You are? Says who? Who will refuse to speak to you if you're (...) (23 years ago, 18-Jun-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Libertarian SPAM (Propaganda)
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In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Bruce Schlickbernd writes: <snip> I think you raise some good points but I'm not sure how to proceed since we seem a ways a part. As with Shiri's post about working conditions, I am not going to claim that things are not (...) (23 years ago, 18-Jun-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Libertarian Propaganda (was incorrectly referred to as SPAM elsewhere in the thread)
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In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Larry Pieniazek writes: <snip> ** bump ** (from UBB boards, the practice of replying to something that you hoped would get a reply so that the thread floats to the top of the list of things again) (23 years ago, 18-Jun-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Libertarian SPAM (Propaganda)
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** bump ** (23 years ago, 19-Jun-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Libertarian SPAM (Propaganda)
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(...) But I am sure that there would be many who would be willing to pay a premium to send their kids to a "whites only" school or use other whites only services. With your text above, we return to the LP's dilemma. The LP is made up of a membership (...) (23 years ago, 19-Jun-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Libertarian SPAM (Propaganda)
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(...) Please provide a cite where I said this. I don't claim EVERY problem can be solved better, (For example the problem of your obdurateness is no doubt insoluble under any system) just that the aggregate of all problems would be solved better, on (...) (23 years ago, 19-Jun-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Libertarian SPAM (Propaganda)
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You ought to wait 2-3 days, at least, before bumping... (...) discriminate at all. Not enough facts in the story to judge what is going on in this particular case. Not an important enough case, really, to justify my trying to research it further to (...) (23 years ago, 19-Jun-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Libertarian SPAM (Propaganda)
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Tom answered you quite adequately already. You, however, don't seem to grasp just how ridiculous you look for repeatedly asking me to justify my opinion that LUGNET is more white and more male than the averages when everyone else in the thread has (...) (23 years ago, 19-Jun-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Libertarian SPAM (Propaganda)
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(...) Yet again, you have snipped my points rather than respond to them. (...) It is my perception. I may set aside time to find a quote later. (...) Youch, another insult! (...) Is this a mantra thing?? (...) Perhaps you should read this (again): (...) (23 years ago, 19-Jun-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Libertarian SPAM (Propaganda)
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(...) At least one person was found guilty. Fact enough. Is your line not that the proprietor should be free allow skin colour to decide the level of service s/he provides? That s/he should be allowed to humiliate a fellow citizen purely because of (...) (23 years ago, 19-Jun-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Libertarian SPAM (Propaganda)
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(...) Really? (...) I am not asking you to justify that - not even anything near that difficult. As I said before, I am only trying to get you to justify your statements. I have became tired of all your unsubstantiated facts and hollow opinion. (...) (23 years ago, 19-Jun-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Now: Women Was: Libertarian SPAM (Propaganda)
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(...) The media says I should be. And I think the explosion of eating disorders among teen age girls says that they are getting the message. I personally ignore all advertising. I'm a marketers nightmare. I don't believe or pay attention to any ads (...) (23 years ago, 19-Jun-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Libertarian SPAM (Propaganda)
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(...) Yep... the molecules in the atmosphere are the ones causing the sky's blue appearance. That's also why the sun appears yellow on the background of the sky (blue and yellow are complementary/opposite on the RGB scale, which is what our eyes (...) (23 years ago, 19-Jun-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Nor any drop to drink
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(...) That's not at all true--there's a toilet down the hall with blue water, and it's indoors. (...) <cap ish> adj. of or pertaining to a cape Dave! (23 years ago, 19-Jun-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Nor any drop to drink
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(...) LOL... I was gonna say something like "unless you have food coloring in *your* water"... I wouldn't drink anything that looked blue, but maybe Chris's dog would. I don't think it's good form to drink out of toilets, even for dogs! (...) (...) (23 years ago, 19-Jun-01, to lugnet.off-topic.fun)
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| | Re: Libertarian SPAM (Propaganda)
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(...) Yes, the racism was at least party government sponsored. But I think it is a mistake to blame some government bogeyman rather than admitting that it was a reflection of the electorate. And yes, there was pressure put on businesses and (...) (23 years ago, 19-Jun-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Now: Women Was: Libertarian SPAM (Propaganda)
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(...) Katie, Sounds to me like you just have bad luck on finding men ;-) Men AND women should realize that they are NOT going to change their spouse in any major way. And there are men out there that like to cook, you just need to look harder - or (...) (23 years ago, 19-Jun-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Now: Women Was: Libertarian SPAM (Propaganda)
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(...) Idunno, faced with the prospect of eating my wife's cooking or learning to cook myself, I chose the latter. Don't complain about the moose-turd pie unless you are willing to become the cook. :-) Bruce (23 years ago, 19-Jun-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Self-made diet
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(...) Mmmm.... Culinary auto-cannibalism! Dave! (23 years ago, 19-Jun-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Self-made diet
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(...) I'd think that the stuffing would be the most difficult part! Matt (In a white wine sauce, and truffles) (23 years ago, 19-Jun-01, to lugnet.off-topic.fun)
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| | Re: Self-made diet
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(...) This, coming from the guy with the tough-guy mob name! Dave! (23 years ago, 19-Jun-01, to lugnet.off-topic.fun)
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| | Re: Now: Women Was: Libertarian SPAM (Propaganda)
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(...) It took my wife nearly four years, but she finally got me to pick my socks up off of the living room floor. Of course it might have been the fact that she taped them to a ceiling light fixture just as company was arriving.... :-) Anyway... My (...) (23 years ago, 19-Jun-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Self-made diet
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(...) HEY! *Those* parts are considered a DELICACY! LOL! Matt (23 years ago, 19-Jun-01, to lugnet.off-topic.fun)
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| | Re: Self-made diet
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(...) Famous explorer Ferdinand Feghoot and his son landed on one of the Hawaiian islands in the pacific. The natives threw a feast in his honor. It was beautiful under the setting tropical sun, the gentle surf, the dancing girls. Picking through (...) (23 years ago, 19-Jun-01, to lugnet.off-topic.fun)
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| | Re: Self-made diet
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(...) Ummm...and just HOW did he know that? 8?) Matt (Seared a golden brown and smothered in grilled onions and mushrooms) (23 years ago, 19-Jun-01, to lugnet.off-topic.fun)
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| | Re: Self-made diet
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(...) Experience. He was a politician - they enjoy devouring their opponents. Bruce (marinated in sweet-and-sour sauce and flame broiled) (23 years ago, 19-Jun-01, to lugnet.off-topic.fun)
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| | Re: Now: Women Was: Libertarian SPAM (Propaganda)
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(...) any (...) Amen! (...) or (...) Can't eat out. I live in the country, the nearest "town" is 11 miles away and only has *2* so called restaurants. Interesting thread though....... I eat soup out of a can and my dogs eat chicken, and fresh (...) (23 years ago, 19-Jun-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Now: Women Was: Libertarian SPAM (Propaganda)
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(...) Great idea! You wouldn't have lasted four years here though. My dogs would have just eaten all your socks in that time. You wouldn't have to worry about learning to wash them though, you'd just be buying new ones all the time :-) (...) (...) (23 years ago, 19-Jun-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Self-made diet
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(...) Anyone know where I can invest in a super-dooper king sized version of the George Foreman Grill? Adrian (marinated in one of Mr. Yoshida's Unique and Exciting sauces, served with a side of steamed bok choi those cute little baby carrot cobs) (23 years ago, 19-Jun-01, to lugnet.off-topic.fun)
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| | Re: Now: Women Was: Libertarian SPAM (Propaganda)
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(...) I learned other ways from my mom that work a little better than those rubber thingies (we had those also). On a brand new jar, a well placed spoon does wonders to release the pressure. On an absolutely stuck jar, my mom had this adjustable (...) (23 years ago, 19-Jun-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Self-made diet
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(...) Ya know, that's exactly the first thing I wondered. I mean, if he didn't *know* what human meat tasted like, wouldn't he have said "Hmm. Tastes like chicken."? ;) James (pressure-cooked until tender, and soaked in a sweet & sour pineapple (...) (23 years ago, 19-Jun-01, to lugnet.off-topic.fun)
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| | Re: Now: Women Was: Libertarian SPAM (Propaganda)
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In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Duane Hess writes: <snip...> (...) My wife says that opening jars is the only other reason women keep men around. ;) James (who probably does less than his "fair share" of the workload, but his wife keeps claiming she's (...) (23 years ago, 19-Jun-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Now: women and tools!
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(...) Ah, women and tools. My favorite subject. I have several of the adjustable wrenches. Though I always use a screwdriver to pop open paint can lids, but it probably depends on what kind of paint can you're opening. I'm contemplating a new drill (...) (23 years ago, 19-Jun-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Self-made diet
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(...) Because we don't taste like chicken. Human flesh is refered to as "long-pig". Enjoy your pork. :-) Bruce (the other OTHER white meat, Mesquite slow-smoked) (23 years ago, 19-Jun-01, to lugnet.off-topic.fun)
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| | Re: Self-made diet
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Well, THIS thread will drive me to vegetarianism if nothing else will Maggie C. (who will not, however, give up her collection of leather goods) (...) (23 years ago, 19-Jun-01, to lugnet.off-topic.fun)
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| | Re: Self-made diet
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(...) Sorry Maggie! Just a rich little thread, seasoned generously with ideas from the comedy stylings of Monty Python and lightly toasted in the glow of The Hitchhikers Guide To The Galaxy, then poached to sublime perfection. Served with your (...) (23 years ago, 19-Jun-01, to lugnet.off-topic.fun)
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| | Re: Self-made diet
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(...) Which of course begs the question.... ;) (...) There was a billboard campaign in Saskatchewan for a while that got lots of laughs from people who read any of several other meanings into it. It showed a generic "ad-guy" with his generic (...) (23 years ago, 19-Jun-01, to lugnet.off-topic.fun)
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| | Re: Self-made diet
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(...) Ewwwwww........ (...) pork...but not in that way...aw, forget it!) BTW, this whole thread is now lent a *tiny* bit of realism, if you notice the following things: 1) Yes, the word pork takes on many different meanings when seen on the (...) (23 years ago, 19-Jun-01, to lugnet.off-topic.fun)
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| | Re: Self-made diet
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(...) Yikes! There isn't anything subtle about that billboard is there? Hehe. =) ~Nathan (23 years ago, 19-Jun-01, to lugnet.off-topic.fun)
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| | Re: Now: women and tools!
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(...) Go for the cobalt bits. (I think they're cobalt - can't remember) They are the ones with the gold color to them (or maybe that's the true color of money). I have a whole set and they work well on most everything, wood, metal, whatever. The (...) (23 years ago, 19-Jun-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Self-made diet
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(...) Haha! That's a great one - but I think they knew *exactly* what they were saying. Bruce (23 years ago, 19-Jun-01, to lugnet.off-topic.fun)
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| | Why the sky is blue (was: Re: Libertarian SPAM (Propaganda))
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(...) Well... the colour of the Sun will be subjective to how each individual perceives colour, but it's peak output definitely lies in the range that most people would call yellow. It is a whitish-yellow, because the Sun also radiates at all other (...) (23 years ago, 19-Jun-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Self-made diet
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(...) In terms of one common context, yes. In the context of this thread? ;) Or in other words, were there two people, or three in that billboard? James (23 years ago, 19-Jun-01, to lugnet.off-topic.fun)
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| | Re: Why the sky is blue (was: Re: Libertarian SPAM (Propaganda))
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(...) Art 101: large bodies of water take on the color of the sky. If the sky is gray, the water is gray, not blue. Lemme see.... (URL) down a bit - they even use the gray sky/gray water in the example. Bruce (Arrr...rrrgh! I've become (...) (23 years ago, 19-Jun-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Why the sky is blue
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(...) ... (...) ... This is off-topic for .debate! FUT .geek ++Lar (23 years ago, 19-Jun-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, lugnet.off-topic.geek)
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| | Re: Self-made diet
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(...) Carrots have cobs?? ;] KDJ (banana-nut loaf) ___...___ LUGNETer #203, Windsor, Ontario, Canada (23 years ago, 19-Jun-01, to lugnet.off-topic.fun)
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| | Re: Now: women and tools!
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Cobalt are a dark coppery brown. Titanium are gold. HSS are generally "natural", chrome, or black. If you drill all types of materials, it would be best to own HSS, Cobalt, Titanium, and a few carbide and diamond coated (still need to buy the (...) (23 years ago, 20-Jun-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Now: women and tools!
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(...) Me too. So where do you obtain these adjustable wenches? :-) Jason J Railton (23 years ago, 20-Jun-01, to lugnet.off-topic.fun)
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| | Re: Why the sky is blue
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(...) That is misinformation! Water DOES have an intrinsic blue colour: (URL) Learning" indeed! However, I must apologise for my earlier starement that the bluish tinge of water is due to scattering. It is due to selective absorption (there's the (...) (23 years ago, 20-Jun-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Why the sky is blue
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(...) "Why the *ocean* is blue" is not quite the same as the three sources you note, which all address "why *water* is blue". The phenomenom of the ocean taking on the color of the sky (in general) has been long observed and recorded by artists. (...) (23 years ago, 20-Jun-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Why the sky is blue
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(...) I've done so on many occasions, seriously trying to answer this very question (is the ocean blue, or is it reflecting the sky?) for myself. One tends to do this sort of thing when studying atmospheric science at the graduate level. There are (...) (23 years ago, 20-Jun-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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