CAD Development : 2542


CAD / Development / 2542

i admit i was wrong —Jonathan Wilson

i admit i was wrong in trying to do so many parts so fast. i will take the groups suggestion that i work ion one part untill it is really ready then start on the next one. the first part i will do is the baseplate 32 x 32 raised with ramp. then i (...) (25 years ago, 13-Aug-99, to lugnet.cad.dev)

Re: i admit i was wrong —Tamyra Teed

(...) do i have to do the rounded edges to get the part in? if not then ---...--- This is the stuff we are talking about.. the above sentence.. you are already looking for the easy way to do the part.. that's NOT how these are done.. the parts are (...) (25 years ago, 13-Aug-99, to lugnet.cad.dev)

Re: i admit i was wrong —John Bauman

Mookie wrote in message <37B39C10.DD9E29FA@w...tt.net>... <SNIPPED flame> (...) Any Idea how to do this on Outlook express? (25 years ago, 13-Aug-99, to lugnet.off-topic.geek)

Re: i admit i was wrong —John Bauman

Found it. John Bauman wrote in message ... (...) (25 years ago, 13-Aug-99, to lugnet.off-topic.geek)

Re: i admit i was wrong —Todd Lehman

(...) Tamy, I agree, and I think this is becoming a serious problem. In fact, I just learned from Joshua Delahunty tonight via a private email that he has stopped reading this group because of Jonathan. This is a quote -- with permission: JD> [...] (...) (25 years ago, 13-Aug-99, to lugnet.cad.dev, lugnet.admin.general)

Re: i admit i was wrong —Jonathan Wilson

(...) I will do the following as of right now. 1. Stop asking for parts, help with parts, models, help with models and related questions (e.g. is this part in ldraw questions). 2. Start using capital letters and checking the spelling of messages 3. (...) (25 years ago, 13-Aug-99, to lugnet.cad.dev)

Re: i admit i was wrong —Todd Lehman

(...) Can I make a couple other constructive suggestions?-- 6. Think more, post less. 7. Stop being rude and disrespectful to people. Messages like these: (3 URLs) have the long-term cumulative effect of everyone either despising you or ignoring (...) (25 years ago, 13-Aug-99, to lugnet.cad.dev)

Re: i admit i was wrong —Eric Kingsley

In lugnet.cad.dev, Todd Lehman writes: Snip of what appears to be some thoughtful reflection by Jonathan (...) I want to add one here... (URL) was in reply to... (URL) post here Jonathan was totally uncalled for in my oppinion and showed a lack of (...) (25 years ago, 13-Aug-99, to lugnet.cad.dev)

Re: i admit i was wrong —Jonathan Wilson

(...) what I was asking was not for more parts I was asking 1.If I could finish a part he had started 2.If he has submitted parts he had already made for voting 3.What set numbers used a part he had already made (25 years ago, 13-Aug-99, to lugnet.cad.dev)

Re: i admit i was wrong —Larry Pieniazek

Jonathan, you might try responding directly to that rather lengthy append using interspersed quotes instead of leaving all of it there, then not responding to any of it, or at least not very much of it. I think one thing people are on you about is (...) (25 years ago, 14-Aug-99, to lugnet.cad.dev)

Re: i admit i was wrong —Tim Courtney

(...) I agree 100% here. Jonathan, that was completely rude, arrogant, selfish, and inconsiderate. I know Tore's situation somewhat by talking to him. HOW DARE YOU put your SELFISH desire for LDRAW PARTS you CAN'T even make properly above his (...) (25 years ago, 13-Aug-99, to lugnet.cad.dev)

Re: i admit i was wrong —Selçuk Göre

<Snip> (...) now. (...) Yes, his messages somehow boring and generally no point to go. BUT, he doesn't use any profanity, and made nothing against the black book. He even tries to contribute some and recently climbs some necessary steps, too, which (...) (25 years ago, 13-Aug-99, to lugnet.cad.dev, lugnet.admin.general)

Re: i admit i was wrong —Todd Lehman

(...) He has used profanity at least once (what I would call profanity), but that's beside the point. Just because someone hasn't broken any written rules (i.e., the Terms of Use), doesn't mean that they haven't violated tacit principles or canons (...) (25 years ago, 13-Aug-99, to lugnet.cad.dev, lugnet.admin.general)

Re: i admit i was wrong —Todd Lehman

(...) OK, here's the analogy. Imagine that there is this magnificent glass building in a pleasant corner of town. It's ten stories tall with clear windows going up all the sides and covering all the insides. The rooms inside are all sorts of neat (...) (25 years ago, 13-Aug-99, to lugnet.cad.dev, lugnet.admin.general)

Re: i admit i was wrong —Jeff Boen

<Very large, but *very* respectful snip!> (...) wow! my friend Todd, you are a wordsmith... that was great J (25 years ago, 13-Aug-99, to lugnet.cad.dev, lugnet.admin.general)

Re: i admit i was wrong —Tom McDonald

(...) bad, (...) [...] Very nice analogy. This is how restaurants, neighborhoods, dance/night clubs et. al. of all kinds start losing patronage and favor. It all starts with "I'll do what I want in here", which BTW can include the attitude of the (...) (25 years ago, 13-Aug-99, to lugnet.cad.dev, lugnet.admin.general)

Re: i admit i was wrong —Todd Lehman

(...) Hmm. Wow. Deep. Yeah, what Tom said. Can things be broken into levels? tasks assigned (via voluntary cooperation)? Are there sub-tasks which could be accomplished by beginners or apprentices just as well as by masters? What's that word? (...) (25 years ago, 13-Aug-99, to lugnet.cad.dev, lugnet.admin.general)

Re: i admit i was wrong —Tom McDonald

(...) Thanks Todd. The way I see it is that he has plenty of enthusiasm, but just isn't cut out for the part-designing facet of Legodom. But as the CLSotW has pointed out, there are 1,060 ways to connect 3 8-stud bricks, so there's got to be a way (...) (25 years ago, 13-Aug-99, to lugnet.cad.dev, lugnet.admin.general)

1060 ways to connect 3 bricks (was Re: i admit i was wrong) —Bram Lambrecht

(...) so (...) Those 1060 connections are just considering right angle, studs up connections, though. As we all know by now, that isn't the only way to think: With 2x4 *bricks* only, you can't do much more than studs up, but you can still rotate (...) (25 years ago, 14-Aug-99, to lugnet.cad.dev)

Re: i admit i was wrong —Tim Courtney

(...) How bout some help on rudimentary tasks on ldraw.org? There's a lot of stuff that needs to be done that is menial minimum-wage type stuff. Note: 'minimum wage' is an expression - no one's gettin paid here :) -Tim <>< (URL) timcourtne ICQ: (...) (25 years ago, 13-Aug-99, to lugnet.cad.dev, lugnet.admin.general)

Re: i admit i was wrong —Jonathan Wilson

(...) kl.net? As time permits I will ldraw as much of the castle sub theme (and then others) as possible, given the parts available to me for use. (e.g. the recent creation of the large 6090 baseplate has allowed me to ldraw that set) (25 years ago, 14-Aug-99, to lugnet.cad.dev, lugnet.admin.general)

Re: i admit i was wrong —Tim Courtney

(...) I'd say not. I'm looking more for things along the lines of gathering links, making sure stuff works, making pages which are not content-critical. LDrawing sets in large volume is nice, but its not something considered 'giving someone an (...) (25 years ago, 14-Aug-99, to lugnet.cad.dev, lugnet.admin.general)

Re: i admit i was wrong —Larry Pieniazek

(...) Why not? I think that Ldrawing sets is indeed useful. But then, my perspective is that of a consumer of instructions, not a creator of them, and I certainly know that I do not have the time nor the interest to get deep into part creation. I am (...) (25 years ago, 14-Aug-99, to lugnet.cad.dev, lugnet.admin.general)

Re: i admit i was wrong —Tim Courtney

(...) LDrawing sets is useful, I'm not disagreeing. But the thing is Jonathan has stockpiled bunches and bunches of these LDrawn sets and will just submit a flood of them without editing out his own 'parts' first. I'm more concerned with adhesion to (...) (25 years ago, 14-Aug-99, to lugnet.cad.dev, lugnet.admin.general)

Re: i admit i was wrong —Larry Pieniazek

Tim, You need to fix that bug in your poster SW that is not referencing quite correctly! :-) I keep having trouble finding your replies. Well, found it so here I am. To net it out, I agree with you, mostly, on this. (and I tend to think of you and (...) (25 years ago, 14-Aug-99, to lugnet.cad.dev, lugnet.admin.general)

Re: i admit i was wrong —Tamyra Teed

(...) Same here, I probably should have said that a little more clearly :) (...) That's what I meant when I said that.. if no one would have ever told me that Tim wasn't an "adult" a never would have guessed otherwise, Same with Bram, though I don't (...) (25 years ago, 14-Aug-99, to lugnet.cad.dev, lugnet.admin.general)

Re: i admit i was wrong —Tim Courtney

(...) <puffs his chest out with pride> ;) (...) I couldn't agree more. One, I'm definitely not a parent :) and Two, I'm a teenager and am annoyed to death of (little) kids (c'mon, we've all been there). Now obviously, Jonathan isn't a *little* kid. (...) (25 years ago, 15-Aug-99, to lugnet.cad.dev, lugnet.admin.general)

Re: i admit i was wrong —Jonathan Wilson

(...) i am from austraila and i am 18 and studying at university. (25 years ago, 15-Aug-99, to lugnet.cad.dev, lugnet.admin.general)

Re: i admit i was wrong —Christian Holtje

(...) Dear Jonathan; You *must* really want to be a part of this group to keep posting, but you really should use the shift key. I'm not sure what your plans are, but your actions concern me and are driving a large portion of this group's active (...) (25 years ago, 15-Aug-99, to lugnet.cad.dev)

Some excellent advice (Re: i admit i was wrong —Larry Pieniazek

The Doctor What wrote: <snip> Not to be terse, but the subject says it all. I've not seen you around here before recently, so in case no one's said it yet, welcome to LUGNET, and nice job on the advice. Thanks. (we all could (yes, even me, otherwise (...) (25 years ago, 15-Aug-99, to lugnet.cad.dev)

Re: Some excellent advice (Re: i admit i was wrong —John Neal

(...) Yes, I concur, but I have a question for you, Doc. Did you used to play second base for Bud Abbott?;-) All seriousness aside, this isn't RTL, and although a few folks here are known by nicknames, they have been around and everyone *knows* (...) (25 years ago, 15-Aug-99, to lugnet.cad.dev)

Re: Some excellent advice (Re: i admit i was wrong —Larry Pieniazek

(...) Just turn on "view all headers" in Netscape or other modern newsreader(1) and you will see. X-Real-Life-Name: Christian Holtje So no, he's not in violation of norms or rules, settle down, cobber. PS, this probably should be followed up in (...) (25 years ago, 15-Aug-99, to lugnet.general)

Re: Some excellent advice (Re: i admit i was wrong —Naji Norder

(...) His post _did_ have his real name in it: Christian Holtje. Perhaps your news reader didn't display the proper identity field. (I think there was a similar discussion several months ago. The name is hidded in the x-reallife-name field or (...) (25 years ago, 15-Aug-99, to lugnet.general)

Re: Some excellent advice (Re: i admit i was wrong —John Neal

(...) Naji- "Who's on first. What's on second. I don't know is on third" "That's what I'm trying to find out, the man on first." "Who" "The man on first" "Who" "The man playing first base" "That's the man's name" "Whose name" "That's right" "Look, (...) (25 years ago, 15-Aug-99, to lugnet.general)

Re: Some excellent advice (Re: i admit i was wrong —Christopher Masi

(...) Time for Wopner. Christopher (25 years ago, 16-Aug-99, to lugnet.off-topic.fun)

Re: Some excellent advice (Re: i admit i was wrong —John Neal

(...) I did not know that part about "view all headers":-) Learn something new every day! So now I can say, "Welcome, Christian!":-) (...) Hey, I got your hardware right here, pal;-) Actually, I *did* buy the Gateway P3 450 mz blah blah blah. (...) (25 years ago, 15-Aug-99, to lugnet.general)

Re: Some excellent advice (Re: i admit i was wrong —Christian Holtje

(...) I believe I am abiding by the letter, if not the spirit. If you notice, the mail list (and I believe the news group) headers show who I "really" am: X-Real-Life-Name: Christian Holtje In addition, the web list is even more explicit: From: The (...) (25 years ago, 15-Aug-99, to lugnet.general, lugnet.cad.dev)

Re: i admit i was wrong —Tom McDonald

(...) <snipped good "Dear Jon" letter> Many good points, said in a good way. Unfortunately, I think it's all a bit too late. All these points have been mentioned before by several folks for awhile now. But thanks for saying them anyway. And welcome (...) (25 years ago, 15-Aug-99, to lugnet.cad.dev)

Re: i admit i was wrong —Tim Courtney

(...) Yeah, I'm annoyed by it too. I quick glanced over my program's (Eudora Pro 4.2) options and couldn't see anything connected to the problem with my replies to the group. That's why I'm including your personal email address in this message, and (...) (25 years ago, 14-Aug-99, to lugnet.cad.dev, lugnet.admin.general)

Re: i admit i was wrong —Larry Pieniazek

(...) Yes. I think it's time to call the question among the stalwarts and take whatever action is decided on. We're belaboring the point now. (don't ask me for my opinion, BTW, I'm not a cad stalwart, so don't count for what cad.dev decides...) (...) (25 years ago, 15-Aug-99, to lugnet.cad.dev, lugnet.admin.general)

Re: i admit i was wrong —John Neal

(...) Wax on, wax off. <sorry> (...) (25 years ago, 15-Aug-99, to lugnet.cad.dev, lugnet.admin.general)

Re: i admit i was wrong —Selçuk Göre

(...) Sorry, but I can't snip this masterpiece. Nice anology?..No!..This is wonderful...:-) I can see your point, of course (it is not possible after reading this). Actually, I could already see it before my post, too. You are of course right, but (...) (25 years ago, 14-Aug-99, to lugnet.cad.dev, lugnet.admin.general)

Re: i admit i was wrong —Eric Kingsley

(...) This was me. I thought I would try and give you all my feelings on what I have seen from the outside. I am an LDraw user and like to follow lugnet.cad.dev but I rarely if ever post there. I have also seen Jonathan on other groups as well and (...) (25 years ago, 13-Aug-99, to lugnet.cad.dev, lugnet.admin.general)

Re: i admit i was wrong —John Neal

QOTD? (...) ;John (...) (25 years ago, 15-Aug-99, to lugnet.off-topic.fun)

Re: i admit i was wrong —Adam Howard

(...) Hi Todd, It seems like some people may be on the verge, but I don't believe anyone else has really left the group. I think they would let you know if they had as a curtesy like Joshua did. I've noticed over the past month that there haven't (...) (25 years ago, 13-Aug-99, to lugnet.cad.dev, lugnet.admin.general)

Re: i admit i was wrong —Todd Lehman

(...) There's no way to vote out a whole person if that person has repeatedly demonstrated an inability to create parts that pass?? Why would you not want to silence a noise at its source? I don't understand. (...) So put the burden on everyone at (...) (25 years ago, 13-Aug-99, to lugnet.cad.dev, lugnet.admin.general)

Re: i admit i was wrong —Don Heyse

(...) Sometimes this is the only solution. A while back you yourself forced me to make a fix at my end for something I still believe should be fixed at the source. OK, I accepted that and I still read the newsgroups and occasionally make a lame (...) (25 years ago, 13-Aug-99, to lugnet.cad.dev, lugnet.admin.general)

Re: i admit i was wrong —Mike Stanley

(...) Actually, he did provide a workaround on the server end. (URL) use it all the time. In fact, that is the link *I* use to access Lugnet via the web. (25 years ago, 13-Aug-99, to lugnet.cad.dev, lugnet.admin.general)

Re: i admit i was wrong —Don Heyse

(...) be (...) here) (...) than (...) Yeah, but it uses frames. I hate frames. I tried the power user link but then I couldn't save any bookmarks. They all come out with the poweruser link. I suppose I could have asked for more help with the (...) (25 years ago, 13-Aug-99, to lugnet.cad.dev, lugnet.admin.general)

Re: i admit i was wrong —Adam Howard

Todd Lehman <lehman@javanet.com> wrote in message news:37b3f4c3.121015...net.com... (...) That (...) Todd, I think you're making this too personal. Vote against a part not a person. (...) it (...) group (...) I honestly don't know what to do here. (...) (25 years ago, 13-Aug-99, to lugnet.cad.dev, lugnet.admin.general)

Re: i admit i was wrong —Todd Lehman

(...) I thought parts were created by people. If you vote against a person, you effectively vote against a whole collection of parts all at once, which seems to me a much more efficient way to filter out rubbish. But I should stop questioning the (...) (25 years ago, 13-Aug-99, to lugnet.cad.dev, lugnet.admin.general)

Re: i admit i was wrong —John VanZwieten

Todd Lehman <lehman@javanet.com> wrote in message news:37b46f3c.152373...net.com... (...) Any part author can tell you the reason for this. Part authoring is such a slow and sometimes painful process that the thought of excluding someone who is (...) (25 years ago, 13-Aug-99, to lugnet.cad.dev, lugnet.admin.general)

Re: i admit i was wrong —Todd Lehman

(...) Adam, I hate to beat a dead horse, but I neglected to point out perhaps the most significant flaw with the "kids at school" way of looking at this. I agree, enthusiasm is a great thing!! And it goes a *loooong* way toward fostering effective (...) (25 years ago, 14-Aug-99, to lugnet.cad.dev, lugnet.admin.general)

Re: i admit i was wrong —Mike Stanley

(...) I did, months ago. That's one of the reasons my mirror of the L-CAD updates are usually a few days behind the main site - I don't find out about them (or anything else having to do with LDraw) until Terry e-mails me. (25 years ago, 13-Aug-99, to lugnet.cad.dev, lugnet.admin.general)

Re: i admit i was wrong —Tim Courtney

(...) Mike, I sympathize with you. Jonathan really t's me off too. Its sad that his rude arrogance caused you to leave. -Tim <>< (URL) timcourtne ICQ: 23951114 Rubber chickens are the best applied use of polystyrene to date. Get paid to surf the (...) (25 years ago, 13-Aug-99, to lugnet.cad.dev, lugnet.admin.general)

Re: i admit i was wrong —Frank Filz

I don't read lugnet.cad.dev, but I still see enough annoying traffic from Jonathan. In fact, he even has made demands of me (he asked once about instructions for a set, of which I happened to have enough copies I was willing to MAIL him a copy, his (...) (25 years ago, 13-Aug-99, to lugnet.cad.dev, lugnet.admin.general)

Re: i admit i was wrong —Tim Courtney

(...) And use a signature??? That pisses people off too. How about ignoring peoples' constructive posts about your behavior, like this one: (URL) received no response or apparent change on your part (and took up a good 45 minutes of my busy life to (...) (25 years ago, 13-Aug-99, to lugnet.cad.dev)

Re: i admit i was wrong —Jonathan Wilson

(...) I will use captial letters in future, OK. I did not know it pissed people off so much. Also i do not have the skills to do the rounded edges on the baseplate part and the other baseplates do not have the edges so I will assume that they are (...) (25 years ago, 13-Aug-99, to lugnet.cad.dev)

Re: i admit i was wrong —Steve Bliss

(...) How could you *not* know? People have been blasting you about it for weeks. The lack of capitalization in your messages is not a major peeve for me[1], but I was very aware that it annoyed many other people. (...) So get them. Look at how the (...) (25 years ago, 13-Aug-99, to lugnet.cad.dev)

Re: i admit i was wrong —Bram Lambrecht

(...) don't (...) part[2], (...) the (...) Type 5 lines would make up for the lack of edge lines on curved edges, wouldn't they? (But I won't pretend that I know anything about using type 5 lines :/ ) Also, as more and more people raytrace their (...) (25 years ago, 13-Aug-99, to lugnet.cad.dev)

Re: i admit i was wrong —John VanZwieten

Bram Lambrecht <braml@juno.com> wrote in message news:19990813.073557...uno.com... (...) The type 5 lines only show up at the outer edges. There still would be no edgeline extending the length of the edge between the top and side faces, simply (...) (25 years ago, 13-Aug-99, to lugnet.cad.dev)

Parts for LDraw or parts for POV-Ray? (was: Re: i admit i was wrong) —Steve Bliss

(...) I disagree on this point. LDraw parts should be primarily focused on optimizing rendering in LDraw-tools. Among other things, this means that small-radius curved edges are better drawn as sharp edges. Heck, when you get right down to details, (...) (25 years ago, 13-Aug-99, to lugnet.cad.dev)

Re: Parts for LDraw or parts for POV-Ray? (was: Re: i admit i was wrong) —John VanZwieten

Steve Bliss <blisses@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message news:37b46776.174180...net.com... (...) Perhaps we should take this debate to a more appropriate group: lugnet.cad.dev.on-topic :-) (...) In general the cut-off for details is 1 LDU, or so (...) (25 years ago, 13-Aug-99, to lugnet.cad.dev)

Re: Parts for LDraw or parts for POV-Ray? —Leonardo Zide

(...) Good idea, we shouldn't be discussing this in lugnet.flame.flame :) and Steve said: (...) I've done that to LeoCAD a few months ago, when you export a file to POV-Ray it first searches the LGEO library for the parts and then if it cannot find (...) (25 years ago, 13-Aug-99, to lugnet.cad.dev)

Re: Parts for LDraw or parts for POV-Ray? —Steve Bliss

(...) I'd give that one a hearty "Heck, Yes!" :) Except I never did come up with a decent working version of Rayshade/Netshade. I finally settled for the POV- Ray port of L3G0. Even made a few parts for myself. :) No rounded edges, though. :( In (...) (25 years ago, 13-Aug-99, to lugnet.cad.dev)

Re: Parts for LDraw or parts for POV-Ray? —Jonathan Wilson

(...) There are parts in l3go and mabie even in lgeo that are not in ldraw yet. I think that before a merge of lgeo and l3go is done then the l3go parts not in ldraw should be done in ldraw.That way there would be nothing in the combined library (...) (25 years ago, 14-Aug-99, to lugnet.cad.dev)

Re: Parts for LDraw or parts for POV-Ray? —Bram Lambrecht

(...) each (...) I agree with joining libraries, but the creators of the libraries might not, especially when parts are in both libraries. Then which do you keep? It may also take a lot of effort to match the scale, coordinate system, and insertion (...) (25 years ago, 14-Aug-99, to lugnet.cad.dev)

Re: Parts for LDraw or parts for POV-Ray? —Paul Gyugyi

(...) I don't care, really. I'm still wondering why we needed those newfangled L*P tools, anyways. :) I've always been amused at how everyone who creates a part library uses a totally wron^H^H^H^Hdifferent coordinate system and names the pieces (...) (25 years ago, 14-Aug-99, to lugnet.cad.dev)

Re: Parts for LDraw or parts for POV-Ray? —Todd Lehman

(...) What was the rationale motivating the hammer on BriCad? --Todd (25 years ago, 14-Aug-99, to lugnet.cad.dev)

Re: Parts for LDraw or parts for POV-Ray? —Leonardo Zide

(...) TLG sent the author a letter saying that they had the copyrights over the bricks/studs and if he didn't remove his pages he would be sued. The author got so disappointed that he left the net. Leonardo (25 years ago, 14-Aug-99, to lugnet.cad.dev)

Re: Parts for LDraw or parts for POV-Ray? —Todd Lehman

(...) Did Carsten ever post a copy of the letter or anything like that? Anyone know what year/month this was? How about what country he lived in at the time? Very odd... Obviously (er, apparently) TLG has lightened up considerably since then. --Todd (25 years ago, 14-Aug-99, to lugnet.cad.dev)

Re: Parts for LDraw or parts for POV-Ray? —Joshua Delahunty

(...) IIRC (this would be from e-mail he sent me that I almost certainly no longer have, and is stuff I know because I was making an attempt to port it to a Windows version): - It was LEGO Germany - The dispute was over TLG's rights to "studded (...) (25 years ago, 15-Aug-99, to lugnet.cad.dev)

Re: Parts for LDraw or parts for POV-Ray? —Leonardo Zide

(...) You are probably more correct than me, I've never been able to talk to Carsten and I've never been able to use BriCad, Unix was very hard to install at that time and I wasn't a programmer (didn't knew much about computers). (...) You're right, (...) (25 years ago, 15-Aug-99, to lugnet.cad.dev)

Re: Parts for LDraw or parts for POV-Ray? —Joshua Delahunty

(...) You continue to amaze, Leonardo. To have not been a programmer that recently, and to have come up with LeoCAD and make it work so well, it shocks me a little (in a good way). :) (...) I wouldn't go that far. In fact, I'd caution that we be (...) (25 years ago, 15-Aug-99, to lugnet.cad.dev)

Re: Parts for LDraw or parts for POV-Ray? —Steve Bliss

On Sun, 15 Aug 1999 00:28:15 GMT, Joshua Delahunty <dulcaoin@alumni.cse.ucsc.edu> wrote: [Update on the story of BriCAD and Carsten Gnoerlich] Thanks for the information, Joshua. I hadn't heard of btopia. Heck, the last thing I knew, I was (...) (25 years ago, 15-Aug-99, to lugnet.cad.dev)

Re: Parts for LDraw or parts for POV-Ray? —Tamyra Teed

Snipped most of the message... ok.. all of it.. :-) I have some thoughts on why TLG hasn't thought about trying to shut this down... I'm sure they already know the group as a whole isn't very happy with them. To turn around, and try to shut down a (...) (25 years ago, 16-Aug-99, to lugnet.cad.dev)

Why TLG doesn't have a leg to stand on anymore. —Christian Holtje

Despite the dire Subject line, I am only refering to good things for people who author "lego" software. There are the PR problems that Mookie mentioned, but there is more than that. Lego has lost the IP rights in several countries (due to time). (...) (25 years ago, 16-Aug-99, to lugnet.cad.dev)

Re: Why TLG doesn't have a leg to stand on anymore. —Leonardo Zide

(...) I thought that most countries have signed the same agreement about copyright laws, making the laws the same almost everywhere (in about 200 countries at least). (...) Or you could find a place that doesn't have copyright laws and put the (...) (25 years ago, 16-Aug-99, to lugnet.cad.dev)

Re: Why TLG doesn't have a leg to stand on anymore. —John Bauman

Leonardo Zide wrote in message <37B811B3.16EA370B@c...com.br>... (...) Reminds of hearing that all windows -emulation projects (like WINE) should be moved to australia because you are allowed to reverse engineer there. (...) (25 years ago, 16-Aug-99, to lugnet.cad.dev)

Reverse engineering (Was: Why TLG doesn't have a leg to stand on anymore.) —Jacob Sparre Andersen

(...) You have (as I read the law) been allowed to do that in EU for a few years now. Play well, Jacob ---...--- -- E-mail: sparre@cats.nbi.dk -- -- Web...: <URL:(URL) -- ---...--- (25 years ago, 17-Aug-99, to lugnet.cad.dev)

Re: Why TLG doesn't have a leg to stand on anymore. —Christian Holtje

(...) Copyright laws are pretty the much the same for the reasons you list, with a few exceptions. However, lego cad programs don't infringe on *any* copyrights, only Trademarks and (possibly, but not likely) intelectual property rights. (...) It (...) (25 years ago, 16-Aug-99, to lugnet.cad.dev)

Re: Parts for LDraw or parts for POV-Ray? —Leonardo Zide

(...) If you liked the Windows version, you're going to be even more amazed when the Linux version is ready. :) I just hope that someone else gets impressed and offers me a job... (I'm going to graduate this semester and I realized I don't want to (...) (25 years ago, 16-Aug-99, to lugnet.cad.dev)

Re: Parts for LDraw or parts for POV-Ray? —Paul Gyugyi

(...) I have BriCAD 0.83 source, and possibly the earlier 0.75 source, in archive, if Carsten would like to have them. -gyug (25 years ago, 20-Aug-99, to lugnet.cad.dev)

Re: Parts for LDraw or parts for POV-Ray? —Joshua Delahunty

(...) Gee, hath my memory deceived me? Maybe it WAS 0.83 source I wanted (I think I had 0.75 source). Carsten wasn't interested, I was. I wanted to at least bring the functionality of BriCAD (as opposed to btopia) to Windows, and perhaps build it (...) (25 years ago, 21-Aug-99, to lugnet.cad.dev)

Re: Parts for LDraw or parts for POV-Ray? —Steve Bliss

(...) I don't think TLG has changed much since then. I also think TLG was blowing some smoke, and Carsten gave up too easily. I'm pretty sure Carsten could have made some cosmetic changes to satisfy TLG. Steve (25 years ago, 15-Aug-99, to lugnet.cad.dev)

Re: Parts for LDraw or parts for POV-Ray? —Bram Lambrecht

(...) I didn't place all 10,000 parts separately, though. Thanks to Jacob's fractal landscape generator, I was able to convert a contour map and a color map of the Fallingwater landscape into a DAT file. To create the contour map, I first scanned (...) (25 years ago, 14-Aug-99, to lugnet.cad.dev)

Re: Parts for LDraw or parts for POV-Ray? —Paul Gyugyi

(...) are one of the hardest things to make, IMO). I did a fractal terrain thing on my jade outpost model. (URL) ended up with a set of 32x32 "terrain" baseplates at varying resolution. One trick is to only include the visible bricks, and group (...) (25 years ago, 14-Aug-99, to lugnet.cad.dev)

Re: Parts for LDraw or parts for POV-Ray? —Ryan Dennett

(...) (URL) (...) (Waterfalls (...) That is a very interesting scene. Really hard to describe :) Ryan "God is always polishing my personality, giving me new things to work on. Since I've become a Christian, my whole perception of life has changed." (...) (25 years ago, 14-Aug-99, to lugnet.cad.dev)

Re: Parts for LDraw or parts for POV-Ray? —Bram Lambrecht

(...) Yep. Jacob Sparre Anderson has created a fractal landscape generator. It works in two steps, first you create a PGM bitmap (in an image editor, or using Jacob's fractal generator), then you convert the PGM to LDraw. Sorry, I don't have the URL (...) (25 years ago, 14-Aug-99, to lugnet.cad.dev)

Re: Parts for LDraw or parts for POV-Ray? —Steve Bliss

(...) "Leveraging the LDraw knowledge-base" :p (...) Isn't that something? I think it would make much more sense if everyone built their library using some obscure, *nix-based (that's a bit redundant) raytracing program. Steve (25 years ago, 15-Aug-99, to lugnet.cad.dev)

Re: Parts for LDraw or parts for POV-Ray? —Paul Gyugyi

(...) ^^^...^^^ (...) LOL. But remember, it was a *free* raytracing program, with more features than POV at the time. And it ran faster under Linux than the DOS version. -gyug (25 years ago, 20-Aug-99, to lugnet.cad.dev)

Re: Parts for LDraw or parts for POV-Ray? —Steve Bliss

(...) GNU free, or just no-price? It could have been worse--it could have only run on a BeBox. Steve (25 years ago, 20-Aug-99, to lugnet.cad.dev)

Re: Parts for LDraw or parts for POV-Ray? —Lutz Uhlmann

(...) First to make clear: L2P uses a library of parts, about 630 by the latest update L3P uses LDraw parts and converts them directly, as I know, so with L3P you can get all parts which are in your parts-directory. So the discussion shlul be about (...) (25 years ago, 16-Aug-99, to lugnet.cad.dev)

Re: Parts for LDraw or parts for POV-Ray? —Bram Lambrecht

(...) you (...) I know, but I was talking about the three libraries in the statement above, not L3P. (...) True. (...) Exactly. (...) This is exactly the reason for joining efforts: to handle all parts, yet use the best quality parts where possible. (...) (25 years ago, 16-Aug-99, to lugnet.cad.dev)

Re: Parts for LDraw or parts for POV-Ray? —Richard Bingle

(...) Both l2p and l3p have their advantages depending on the goal of the user. l3p is great if you want a rendered version of a model, no matter the parts. l2p is great if you want a more detailed/smooth render and the parts are available. Thanks (...) (25 years ago, 17-Aug-99, to lugnet.cad.dev)

Re: Parts for LDraw or parts for POV-Ray? —Richard Bingle

(...) Funny, after almost a year away from the lego ray-tracing world, I had just gotten back into it and had downloaded the latest versions of tools I had tried in the past, including leocad. I just spent the last couple of hours playing with (...) (25 years ago, 14-Aug-99, to lugnet.cad.dev)

Re: Parts for LDraw or parts for POV-Ray? (was: Re: i admit i was wrong) —Paul Gyugyi

(...) Any interest in LDLite-meets-L3G0? (25 years ago, 13-Aug-99, to lugnet.cad.dev)

Re: i admit i was wrong —Tim Courtney

(...) And you're showing a lot of attitude here. How much does it take for you to realize that something DOES piss people off? Ten posts? Twenty? Fifty?? Because people have been posting complaints about Your Arrogancy for months and months. And (...) (25 years ago, 13-Aug-99, to lugnet.cad.dev)

Re: i admit i was wrong —Larry Pieniazek

I just skimmed this whole thread while waiting for a compile. I certainly do not want to stand here and claim that I have never done things to annoy others and I certainly do not want to stand here and claim that JW doesn't need to change his ways, (...) (25 years ago, 13-Aug-99, to lugnet.cad.dev, lugnet.admin.general)

Re: i admit i was wrong —Tamyra Teed

I thought this mentoring thing was already done with him.. when it came to doing parts??? from what I've read.. I haven't checked any of them though.. it seems to have helped a little as far as his parts??? though it seemed as of the time he then (...) (25 years ago, 13-Aug-99, to lugnet.cad.dev, lugnet.admin.general)

Re: i admit i was wrong —Anders Isaksson

Mookie skrev i meddelandet <37B4507F.81B41AA8@w...tt.net>... (...) Well, throwing people out of the door is not the most pedagogic (w/sp?) way of teaching them, is it? -- Anders Isaksson, Sweden BlockCAD: (2 URLs) (25 years ago, 13-Aug-99, to lugnet.cad.dev, lugnet.admin.general)

Re: i admit i was wrong —Tamyra Teed

(...) I never said anything about doing that... I even said Time will tell at the end of the message. Though.. to that question.. here's another answer... When your employer asks you many times to do something, and you still don't do it how they (...) (25 years ago, 13-Aug-99, to lugnet.cad.dev, lugnet.admin.general)

Re: i admit i was wrong —Larry Pieniazek

(...) Here in the US, yes. Unfortunately that is not the case in all of Europe, though. And we're talking about volunteerisim here. Just as a side point I almost destroyed an entire club once trying to apply the way the working world works to (...) (25 years ago, 14-Aug-99, to lugnet.cad.dev, lugnet.admin.general)

Re: i admit i was wrong —Todd Lehman

(...) For sociological reasons, yes? --Todd (25 years ago, 14-Aug-99, to lugnet.cad.dev, lugnet.admin.general)

Re: i admit i was wrong —Larry Pieniazek

(...) For logical reasons. To be fired, you have to be employed, or at least there has to be some sort of fixed arrangement that you can be dismissed from (you can be fired from a volunteer job, but you can't be "fired" from hanging around the (...) (25 years ago, 14-Aug-99, to lugnet.cad.dev, lugnet.admin.general)

Re: i admit i was wrong —Adam Howard

Larry Pieniazek <lar@voyager.net> wrote in message news:37B5A8FA.53861C...ger.net... (...) This is the type of thing I've been worried about. Is this doing more harm or good. I am a relatively new part author (1 year of experience). I'm working on a (...) (25 years ago, 15-Aug-99, to lugnet.cad.dev, lugnet.admin.general)

Re: i admit i was wrong —Tom McDonald

(...) Absolutely. It goes on frequently in the world. (...) Ideally, it should be for the good of both. Hurting another's feelings isn't the issue (though it happens), and it never should be when there are things to be gained by both sides in a (...) (25 years ago, 15-Aug-99, to lugnet.cad.dev, lugnet.admin.general)

Re: i admit i was wrong —Todd Lehman

(...) Well, yes and no, right? * Yes in the sense that "ostracism" means (1) "a method of temporary banishment by popular vote without trial or special accusation practiced in ancient Greece" and (2) "exclusion by general consent from common (...) (25 years ago, 15-Aug-99, to lugnet.cad.dev, lugnet.admin.general)

Re: i admit i was wrong —Todd Lehman

(...) BTW, if the group does decide to hold a vote on this, I'll be sitting on the sideline -- I won't be casting a vote on this. For the record, however -- and this is only my opinion having followed this very closely since its inception -- I do (...) (25 years ago, 15-Aug-99, to lugnet.cad.dev, lugnet.admin.general)

Re: i admit i was wrong —Tom McDonald

(...) A common priviledge here on lugnet is being able to post to any group, which would be revoked if the vote is against him. Exclusion from social acceptance could be achieved by no one answering his posts even with an "I don't know/don't (...) (25 years ago, 15-Aug-99, to lugnet.cad.dev, lugnet.admin.general)

Re: i admit i was wrong —Todd Lehman

(...) Whoops! There are two #5's up there, eh? :o) By the second #5, I really meant the lugnet.starwars group in particular, although other people may have discovered other areas of related concern, disgust, or disappointment. For instance, there's (...) (25 years ago, 15-Aug-99, to lugnet.cad.dev, lugnet.admin.general)

Re: i admit i was wrong —Tim Courtney

(...) About these voting options, the votes for a more severe restriction should carry over to a less severe restriction if that particular restriction recieves the 2/3 majority votes. For example: 25% vote for removal from lugnet.* 50% vote for (...) (25 years ago, 16-Aug-99, to lugnet.cad.dev, lugnet.admin.general)

Re: i admit i was wrong —Larry Pieniazek

I support what you are trying to do in the voting but it may be more straightforward to present a series of up/down propositions and commentary that the broader ones will supercede the narrower ones if passed. (...) Larry Pieniazek larryp@novera.com (...) (25 years ago, 16-Aug-99, to lugnet.cad.dev, lugnet.admin.general)

Re: i admit i was wrong —Todd Lehman

(...) That doesn't follow. The choices aren't mutually exclusive, are they? I thought these were separate, independently voted-upon percentages. If so, then they can't be combined mathematically as described above. Consider: If you had 95% vote for (...) (25 years ago, 17-Aug-99, to lugnet.cad.dev, lugnet.admin.general)

Re: i admit i was wrong —Larry Pieniazek

If you post a message along the lines of "I'm trying to make the crossbow and I am having trouble getting the intersection of where the loop folds into the stock, here's what I tried to do 1. bla 2. bla 3. bla That worked for me when I intersected (...) (25 years ago, 15-Aug-99, to lugnet.cad.dev, lugnet.admin.general)

Re: i admit i was wrong —Steve Bliss

(...) Suggestions for asking questions: Be as specific as possible. In this case, you are working on a specific detail, so you could post the part, with the problem-areas marked by comments: 0 *** The following 4 lines don't work right *** <bad line (...) (25 years ago, 15-Aug-99, to lugnet.cad.dev, lugnet.admin.general)

Re: i admit i was wrong —Adam Howard

Thanks for all the suggestions. I believe I have solved this problem, but I will use everyone's suggestions when I need to post a question in the future. Thanks, Adam Steve Bliss <blisses@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message (...) (25 years ago, 16-Aug-99, to lugnet.cad.dev, lugnet.admin.general)

Re: i admit i was wrong —Tim Courtney

(...) *Shift* Key Tom.... :) (Or is it ;-) ) :P (and call me stupid cause its only on my way to pressing the send button that I found the 'yanospamhoo' - where's the spamcake? Spamcaaaaake! Spamcaaaaake!!) -Tim <>< (URL) timcourtne ICQ: 23951114 (...) (25 years ago, 16-Aug-99, to lugnet.off-topic.fun)

Re: i admit i was wrong —Tim Courtney

At 10:26 PM 8/13/99 , Larry Pieniazek wrote: snip a good analogy... (...) I think too hastily would have been in February. But now is long past due. He has been asked and told and demanded time upon time to change his mannerisms, his floods of (...) (25 years ago, 14-Aug-99, to lugnet.cad.dev, lugnet.admin.general)

Re: i admit i was wrong —Bryce McGlone

(...) First I feel that I must apoligize to the Lugnet group. I am new here and have made several smart alec comments about Jonathan. I did not appreciate the scope of the problem nor the seriousness of the Lugnet users. That said I would like to (...) (25 years ago, 14-Aug-99, to lugnet.cad.dev, lugnet.admin.general)

Re: i admit i was wrong —Tim Courtney

(...) [...] Bryce, excellent post, thanks for sharing. I think when someone who recently joined the group sees a large problem here like the rest of us, its really time to do something about it. And I don't think any harm was done by your 'smart (...) (25 years ago, 14-Aug-99, to lugnet.cad.dev, lugnet.admin.general)

Re: i admit i was wrong —Todd Lehman

(...) You seem to suppose that everyone who's willing to learn some craft is worth taking the time to teach that craft. Whatever happened to independent learning? --Todd (25 years ago, 13-Aug-99, to lugnet.cad.dev, lugnet.admin.general)

Re: i admit i was wrong —Anders Isaksson

Todd Lehman skrev i meddelandet <37b47be5.155614673@...et.com>... (...) of (...) I didn't _suppose_ anything, I just wrote down a gut reaction. When a group starts throwing people out, it's the beginning of group decay. Some people will always be on (...) (25 years ago, 14-Aug-99, to lugnet.cad.dev, lugnet.admin.general)

Re: i admit i was wrong —Tamyra Teed

Ok... I think this is getting off the beaten track some here... I don't think anyone minds Jonathan asking questions... what they do mind is the tone of his messages. Which he's been called one more than once.. I also don't think anyone would mind (...) (25 years ago, 14-Aug-99, to lugnet.cad.dev, lugnet.admin.general)

Re: i admit i was wrong —Bram Lambrecht

(...) Correct, we're almost the exact same age. I think the difference is less than a week. (Tim, wasn't your birthday late February (mine's March 4) --Bram Bram Lambrecht / o o \ BramL@juno.com ---...---oooo-----(_...o---...--- WWW: (URL) (25 years ago, 14-Aug-99, to lugnet.cad.dev, lugnet.admin.general)

Re: i admit i was wrong —Tim Courtney

(...) Yeah, that's right. Mine is February 27th. -Tim <>< (URL) timcourtne ICQ: 23951114 Commonwealth Edison: What do you do with OUR power? Get paid to surf the web! Visit: (URL) (25 years ago, 14-Aug-99, to lugnet.cad.dev, lugnet.admin.general)

Re: i admit i was wrong —Ryan Dennett

(...) difference is less (...) March 4) (...) And then mine's March 14(2 years later) so we have three bdays within about two weeks time. Ryan "We're here to serve God, glorify Him, and share his light with others." Avery Johnson (25 years ago, 15-Aug-99, to lugnet.cad.dev, lugnet.admin.general)

Re: i admit i was wrong —Tim Courtney

(...) Heh cool :) Us Lugnet youngn's are all from around the same time of year :) (...) :) -Tim <>< (URL) timcourtne ICQ: 23951114 Commonwealth Edison: What do you do with OUR power? Get paid to surf the web! Visit: (URL) (25 years ago, 15-Aug-99, to lugnet.cad.dev, lugnet.admin.general)

Re: i admit i was wrong —Adam Howard

Tim Courtney <tim@zacktron.com> wrote in message news:4.2.0.58.199908...omm.com... (...) :) (...) Well I'm an old'un (28), but I was born on March 15th. :) Adam (25 years ago, 15-Aug-99, to lugnet.cad.dev, lugnet.admin.general)

Re: i admit i was wrong —John Neal

Mookie wrote: <snip> (...) <snip> Reminds me of a joke.... (...) (25 years ago, 15-Aug-99, to lugnet.off-topic.fun)

Re: i admit i was wrong —Tamyra Teed

JOHN! why do you always do that.. and don't tell us the joke????? Ok.. maybe it's not always you.. though everytime someone says that.. they don't tell us the joke :( I happen to like jokes! lots of them :) so.. wanna tell me in e-mail then (...) (25 years ago, 15-Aug-99, to lugnet.off-topic.fun)

Re: i admit i was wrong —Larry Pieniazek

I think I may have started that particular annoying thing here, since I've done it a few times, some of them before JN got here. So be mad at me. You just have to post asking for the joke. IRL it's polite to say "reminds me of a joke" and wait, (...) (25 years ago, 15-Aug-99, to lugnet.off-topic.fun)

Re: i admit i was wrong —John Neal

Ok, what do you call a woman with no a$$hole? <scroll to bottom> (...) Answer: "Single" (25 years ago, 16-Aug-99, to lugnet.off-topic.fun)

That touched a new bottom (was Re: i admit i was wrong) —Tom McDonald

(...) Do all puns gravitate to this subject? -Tom McD. when replying, spamcake races start today, doo dah, doo dah... (25 years ago, 16-Aug-99, to lugnet.off-topic.pun)

Re: That touched a new bottom (was Re: i admit i was wrong) —John Neal

(...) Don't assk me. I'm not an asstronomer. -John (...) (25 years ago, 16-Aug-99, to lugnet.off-topic.pun)

Re: i admit i was wrong —Todd Lehman

(...) OK, I'll go back and answer the question (with my own *opinion*, naturally!) even though it may have been a rhetorical question. No, throwing people out the door is *not* the most pedagogic way of teaching them. Of course not. (Pedagogic (...) (25 years ago, 14-Aug-99, to lugnet.cad.dev, lugnet.admin.general)

Re: i admit i was wrong —Tim Courtney

(...) True, but in this case throwing Jonathan out would not lead to factions. His posts have been an *entire group* annoyance and though many people have tried to help him throughout these months he has refused this help by his silence. It would be (...) (25 years ago, 14-Aug-99, to lugnet.cad.dev, lugnet.admin.general)

Re: i admit i was wrong —Todd Lehman

(...) Sure, that's always possible. On the other hand, perhaps they have finally let JW under their skin to the point that their emotions finally allow them to be rational and fair -- finally seeing the problem for what it is, in other words -- and (...) (25 years ago, 13-Aug-99, to lugnet.cad.dev, lugnet.admin.general)

Re: i admit i was wrong —John VanZwieten

Todd Lehman <lehman@javanet.com> wrote in message news:37b44e0d.143876...net.com... (...) Yup. When it's just things that annoy me a little, I overlook them as I have a rather high tolerance for such things. But when it begins to really harm the (...) (25 years ago, 13-Aug-99, to lugnet.cad.dev, lugnet.admin.general)

Re: i admit i was wrong —John VanZwieten

But what I really hate is people that can't figure out the line length settings on their newsreader! Sorry folks. -John Van John VanZwieten <john_vanzwieten@email.msn.com> wrote in message news:FGF37K.5D7@lugnet.com... (...) a rather high tolerance (...) (25 years ago, 13-Aug-99, to lugnet.cad.dev, lugnet.admin.general)

Re: i admit i was wrong —Tamyra Teed

I just figured it was the group.. you guys are more used to having to adjust your line lengths in order to post .dats.. so I kind of excused that :) there's a good reason.. and one I won't b*tch about :) Keep those .dats a flowing!!! Tamy (...) (25 years ago, 13-Aug-99, to lugnet.cad.dev, lugnet.admin.general)

Re: i admit i was wrong —Steve Bliss

Aaaaaaah. Now I stop scrolling back and forth. I was starting to get a bit seasick. ;) for everyone. Steve (...) (25 years ago, 13-Aug-99, to lugnet.cad.dev, lugnet.admin.general)

Re: i admit i was wrong —Larry Pieniazek

(...) The very fact that the question was asked and acknowledged as possible will in and of itself help matters a great deal, I feel. I shan't belabor it any more. (...) Hmm... was nodding my head. Then I jerked. Realised that there is a line (...) (25 years ago, 14-Aug-99, to lugnet.cad.dev, lugnet.admin.general)

Re: i admit i was wrong —Todd Lehman

(...) Indeed! BTW, if someone is being a major PITA in a group, does that in effect become a barrier to entry of sorts? :-/ (...) By "posting filters" I didn't quite mean barriers to -entry- (to beginning to participate, that is) -- although this (...) (25 years ago, 14-Aug-99, to lugnet.cad.dev, lugnet.admin.general)

Re: i admit i was wrong —Steve Bliss

(...) Must be one heck of a system, to compile that slowly. (...) Yes and no. I'm trying not to reiterate too much here. On other lugnet ng's, I'd be willing to say that jw is just annoying. But under lugnet.cad, he occasionally reaches the level of (...) (25 years ago, 13-Aug-99, to lugnet.cad.dev, lugnet.admin.general)

Re: i admit i was wrong —Larry Pieniazek

(...) I'm a fast reader. And it was a big system. And javac is slow. There's a reason my laptop has 192 meg of memory. But I digress. (...) Yes. Agreed. I ask so that people can nod their heads and say "no, I am calm. Action must be taken" The act (...) (25 years ago, 14-Aug-99, to lugnet.cad.dev, lugnet.admin.general)