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In lugnet.admin.general, "Selçuk <teyyareci>" <sgore@nospam.superonline.com>
writes:
> Yes, his messages somehow boring and generally no point to go. BUT, he
> doesn't use any profanity, and made nothing against the black book.
He has used profanity at least once (what I would call profanity), but
that's beside the point.
Just because someone hasn't broken any written rules (i.e., the Terms of
Use), doesn't mean that they haven't violated tacit principles or canons
particular to some sub-group.
I want to make it clear that I would fully support any motion of ostracism
in any group where it is clear that the group's general welfare is in
danger.
Naturally, there is a provision for this in the Terms of Use:
"Although we hope that everyone can play well together, we must
reserve the right to allow or to refuse access to this site to
anyone, for any reason, with or without prior warning or explanation."
This allows for drastic measures -- including ostracism -- if necessary for
the common good. The common good of a group, IMHO, is always more important
than any one person's liberties within that group. And that's the issue
here.
You might say that I -could- just kick someone off if I thought they were
being a dork, but this is inconsistent with my morals. I never have done
this and very likely never ever would.
On the other hand, the .cad.dev group moved here from the L-CAD mailing
list, and, like many groups here, it is its own entity with its own
group-mind. If *it* decided that someone should be kicked off (maybe
through a motion for a 2/3 popular majority vote or something), or be issued
an ultimatum to comply with local principles and canon, then I would take
that recommendation very seriously and follow it, plain and simple.
> He even
> tries to contribute some and recently climbs some necessary steps, too,
> which shows an improvement on the way.
What does it matter when someone can make parts 3% or 30% or 300% better
than they did six months earlier when they are causing turmoil and anguish
in the process? -- when they are discouraging others (actively or passively)
from participating and having fun?
> If anyone considers leaving a group
> just because of a boring and irritating participant, it's his/her own
> problem I think.
I think so too -- but only to a certain point. One person upset all alone,
that's one thing. I think we're talking 10 or 20 or more upset people in
this case. That's a whole different ballgame.
I was shocked, by the way, at the NELUG meeting the other night, when
someone who didn't even follow the .cad groups closely had noticed and was
complaining about Jonathan. It might have been due to the upsets in the
starwars group, I can't recall.
> There is many possibilities like killfile or just marking
> anything from him as read. I don't think most of the people read everything
> on the server, so just do as the same what you do for the messages that you
> are not interested in.
Killfiles (a.k.a. "bozo files") don't solve problems, they only sweep
problems under rugs.
Killfiles were invented as a workable way to sweep problems under rugs on
Usenet, where ostracism is not possible.
Killfiles aren't even really a good way to sweep something under the rug --
they only suppress posts by people who have been killfiled; they don't
suppress quoted material in replies by other people. So you still see a lot
of the mess. And you miss it when they post something in reply to something
you wrote. That's not good.
(OK, this might not be true if you have a super-advanced killfile processor,
but show me one built into a popular newsreader that's that smart.)
> Smelling bad and looking bad are not the same things. If someone smells bad,
> you sure want him/her to go out and never come back without taking a bath,
> since you can't make all the other people squeeze their noses. But if
> somebody has a harmless but stupid and irritating clothes, just looking at
> the other side is the way to go.
That's a nice analogy, but it doesn't apply. The situation here is more
like someone has walked into a room where things are trying to get done, and
they sit there and muck things up -- asking annoying questions all the time,
treating people rudely, and making ridiculous demands.
It's not fun to think of newsgroups as social entities with social problems,
but that's a fact of their existence.
> For the grammar of his messages, yes it is very irritating, too, but besides
> the above also applies here, just think about the very near future of the
> Lugnet when a flood of non-adults arrives here. I can't managed to see more
> than a handful of teens using appropriate punctuation in their messages
> (especially from US..:-).
Someday if/when a flood of non-adults arrives here, a communications medium
other than NNTP news may be a more attractive solution for that demographic
segment.
--Todd
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Message has 2 Replies:
 | | Re: i admit i was wrong
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| (...) OK, here's the analogy. Imagine that there is this magnificent glass building in a pleasant corner of town. It's ten stories tall with clear windows going up all the sides and covering all the insides. The rooms inside are all sorts of neat (...) (25 years ago, 13-Aug-99, to lugnet.cad.dev, lugnet.admin.general)
| | | Re: i admit i was wrong
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| (...) This was me. I thought I would try and give you all my feelings on what I have seen from the outside. I am an LDraw user and like to follow lugnet.cad.dev but I rarely if ever post there. I have also seen Jonathan on other groups as well and (...) (25 years ago, 13-Aug-99, to lugnet.cad.dev, lugnet.admin.general)
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Message is in Reply To:
| | Re: i admit i was wrong
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| <Snip> (...) now. (...) Yes, his messages somehow boring and generally no point to go. BUT, he doesn't use any profanity, and made nothing against the black book. He even tries to contribute some and recently climbs some necessary steps, too, which (...) (25 years ago, 13-Aug-99, to lugnet.cad.dev, lugnet.admin.general)
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