Subject:
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Re: Parts for LDraw or parts for POV-Ray?
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Newsgroups:
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lugnet.cad.dev
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Date:
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Sun, 15 Aug 1999 17:44:42 GMT
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Viewed:
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1376 times
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Leonardo Zide wrote:
>
> Joshua Delahunty wrote:
> >
> > IIRC (this would be from e-mail he sent me that I almost certainly no
> > longer have,
> > and is stuff I know because I was making an attempt to port it to a
> > Windows version):
>
> You are probably more correct than me, I've never been able to talk to
> Carsten and I've never been able to use BriCad, Unix was very hard to
> install at that time and I wasn't a programmer (didn't knew much about
> computers).
You continue to amaze, Leonardo. To have not been a programmer that
recently, and to have come up with LeoCAD and make it work so well,
it shocks me a little (in a good way). :)
> > - The dispute was over TLG's rights to "studded trade dress" (my take on
> > it was that his output looked TOO close to instructions -- especially
> > his solid colored stud sides)
>
> You're right, I remember that there was something related to the stud
> trade dress (this was discussed a long time ago in the L-CAD list). It's
> good to know that TLG have changed their mind and don't care about what
> we do.
I wouldn't go that far. In fact, I'd caution that we be VERY careful
NOT to believe that for a moment. TLG cares very much about what's
done here, I'm sure, and the moment this effort steps out of hobbiest
"mode" and starts to even APPEAR to affect profits or step onto a
profit center, whether they've developed it yet or not, the developers
of this project with be _sure_ to hear about it.
> > - I asked him at that point if I could still get the BriCAD 0.75 sources
> > from him,
> > but he said he no longer had them; though I would have been welcome to
> > them.
> > I don't have btopia sources either.
>
> If I remember correctly, the sources where available at his page
> (before he removed it) but I'm not sure.
At this point in my narrative, the 0.75 sources were long gone, the
web site had been taken down (because of the letter) to be replaced
once btopia had been stabilized and was ready to realize. He hadn't
kept a snapshot of this spot in the development, so couldn't give me
back the 0.75 sources, which as I said were actually more developed
than btopia was at that point.
> > - The version most of us knew (0.75 +/-) ran under Linux, using
> > X-Windows
> > - The app was really cool, the first of its kind, and looked really
> > really
> > nice; but Carsten was a student when he wrote it, so it had some
> > learning-curve
> > "features"
>
> Are there any professional developers writing this kind of
> applications here ? I'm not even a computer science student so I can be
> excused for having some many bugs. :)
Being a CS student CERTAINLY does not make one a decent software
engineer, nor does having been a lifelone "hacker" (or, if you
prefer "coder"). Good design simply takes lots of pratice coupled
with a sincere review of one's code by talented peers over time (or,
for that matter, self-review of one's own code over time -- this
helps us to realize for ourselves what are important design decisions).
> > - Take the previous three points, combine them with the facts that we
> > wanted the source to compile to multiple platforms and have identical
> > features, and it went into high flux when he decided to rearchitect
> > it into btopia, and you can imagine that the Windows version never
> > really got anywhere. I was waiting for a stable release of btopia
> > that never came, and it didn't seem worth it once he quit the
> > project since I didn't like the way btopia had changed (he actually
> > pulled some features out to redo them, and they never got added
> > back).
>
> It's not difficult to have all features work the same way in multiple
> platforms, you only need to plan everything before you start.
You're reiterating my point for me (though you cut point number 1 of
3). The code started as Amiga code, transmigrated to Linux and X
(which aren't even close to the way Amiga does things), and I was
trying to add in Windows functionality to the system, which had been
developed as a student's side project over time.
I'm not saying that students don't do good coding, but they usually
don't have the time or experience to sit down for a good design at
the start. More often, an idea germinates, some initial success
with the idea leads to an interesting framework around the idea,
and then features are added one-at-a-time on a whim and the
application just snowballs. Rarely is there time or interest in
taking what should have been a simple proof-of-concept or prototype
and starting over with a clean, well-thought out and (most importantly)
extensible design. [Unfortunately, I might add, much of the software
in the professional arena suffers from this methodology as well]
Trying to fit Windows code into the structure he created would have
meant adding an X<->Windows layer. I tried to get him to genericize
some interfaces, so it would be easier to architect other windowing
systems into the program, but that was an uphill battle (understandable,
as he hardly had time to work on the features he wantd to).
> From my
> personal experience, removing features to redo them later is not a good
> idea, you end up choosing the ones you don't like to write and keep
> doing other stuff instead. :)
Yes, but he felt he needed to rearchitect in order to keep the LEGO
Germany lawyers at bay, and he was making an attempt to start with a
cleaner design, as I've said he should have done earlier. Too bad
the Real World got in the way. :-P
> PS: It's good to know you're back, I didn't care about all this JW talk
> until I knew you left the group.
Thanks. At least this shoot-off topic from the discussion has had
some interesting results (or perhaps will). Go Paul! :-)
-- joshua
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Message is in Reply To:
 | | Re: Parts for LDraw or parts for POV-Ray?
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| (...) IIRC (this would be from e-mail he sent me that I almost certainly no longer have, and is stuff I know because I was making an attempt to port it to a Windows version): - It was LEGO Germany - The dispute was over TLG's rights to "studded (...) (25 years ago, 15-Aug-99, to lugnet.cad.dev)
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