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In lugnet.cad.dev, Todd Lehman writes:
> In lugnet.cad.dev, lehman@javanet.com (Todd Lehman) writes:
> > [...]
> > In lugnet.admin.general, "Selçuk <teyyareci>" <sgore@nospam.superonline.com>
> > writes:
> > > Smelling bad and looking bad are not the same things. If someone smells • bad,
> > > you sure want him/her to go out and never come back without taking a bath,
> > > since you can't make all the other people squeeze their noses. But if
> > > somebody has a harmless but stupid and irritating clothes, just looking at
> > > the other side is the way to go.
> >
> > That's a nice analogy, but it doesn't apply. The situation here is more
> > like someone has walked into a room where things are trying to get done, and
> > they sit there and muck things up -- asking annoying questions all the time,
> > treating people rudely, and making ridiculous demands.
> > [...]
>
> OK, here's the analogy.
[...]
Very nice analogy. This is how restaurants, neighborhoods, dance/night clubs
et. al. of all kinds start losing patronage and favor. It all starts with
"I'll do what I want in here", which BTW can include the attitude of the
management. I don't see this with Lugnet's management, but it's prevelant on
RTL. The environment degrades from the ideal and people leave. The place
eventually becomes a dive, or mediocre at best.
This place is too good to lose. And while I don't contribute how to build
super-complicated things like Mindstorms stuff or Supercar gearing, I don't
want any Lugnet group to be run by Lego newbies, unless it's a group called
lugnet.newbies, and even then newbies shouldn't be in charge there. While I
read a few things and learn, I don't post stuff unless I know I can contribute
in a quality way, hopefully leaving the group better than I found it.
As far as the cad.dev group situation goes (or even cad.* for that matter)
I've largely stayed away from posting and am waiting for the dust to clear
either way. I've been asked why I haven't participated in this discussion.
This is because I haven't been asked to do so and also because I rarely visit
the cad.* groups, I feel I'm not informed enough. But because Todd has asked
in this group, I will say that the current flap has kept me from becoming any
more involved in cad.*, and currently, I wouldn't recommend the group to
someone new.
[...]
> In fact, fewer visitors have begun to stop by the ninth floor lately because
> of all the stick figures. Somehow, the stick figures just don't have the
> same appeal as the masterpieces. What's worse, some of the masters
> themselves have begun to show up less frequently, and some have even begun
> not to show up at all. They just can't bear the thought of someone drawing
> stick figures all over the place. The person drawing the stick figures was
> even overheard once berating a master for taking his jolly old time on a
> masterpiece. How absurd.
I have to admit I visit less now.
> The people who frequent the ninth floor have talked to the stick-figure
> artist many, many times about quality, attitude, love of the figure, and
> devotion to the craft. They've even offered helpful hints and constructive
> feedback many times, but and while it seems to help a little, it just
> doesn't seem to help enough. Sometimes the stick figures do end up with a
> little flesh on them, but most of the time they just end up with two heads,
> an especially short arm, or extra toes.
>
> Is there any solution to this problem?
Yes, actually there is. I hear that some of the masters actually discuss their
techniques and their sage advice, as well as advanced techniques from time to
time, and all who want to absorb that knowledge can do so. They give
instructions on etiquette too. The fact is anyone is welcome to lurk and learn
anywhere in the building they want. It's too bad though that the art of
lurking and learning isn't practiced more.
> Obviously, everyone could simply ignore all the stick-figures and the
> stick-figure artist. How reasonable is that? Some of the masters have
> decided that they can't ignore it, and that they're happier just leaving.
Yup. Back to that patronage thing I mentioned above.
> Or, everyone could get together and pose an ultimatum to the stick-figure
> artist, asking him to knock it off -- to pursue a different field, or to
> somehow magically improve straight to the master level overnight.
Even young Kane on "Kung Fu" couldn't do that.
> Or, everyone could get together ask the building manager to request the key
> back to the rooms on the ninth floor. Since all of the rooms in the
> building are glass, taking away a key to a room doesn't mean that someone
> still can't watch what goes on in the room and learn from watching; it just
> means that someone simply can no longer go in to a room and jump around and
> make a fuss or mess things up. They're left to sit on the outside looking
> in, so that the masters can get back to focusing on what they do best and
> enjoy most: creating works of art, unfettered by the frustration of working
> with a stick-figure artist in the room.
>
> This is how I see it.
Should apprentices be required to clean the windows to foster a love of the
place? Maybe some other chore?
-Tom McD.
when replying, when you can take the spamcake from my hand, it will be time
for you to leave.
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Message has 3 Replies:
 | | Re: i admit i was wrong
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| (...) Hmm. Wow. Deep. Yeah, what Tom said. Can things be broken into levels? tasks assigned (via voluntary cooperation)? Are there sub-tasks which could be accomplished by beginners or apprentices just as well as by masters? What's that word? (...) (25 years ago, 13-Aug-99, to lugnet.cad.dev, lugnet.admin.general)
| | | Re: i admit i was wrong
|
| (...) How bout some help on rudimentary tasks on ldraw.org? There's a lot of stuff that needs to be done that is menial minimum-wage type stuff. Note: 'minimum wage' is an expression - no one's gettin paid here :) -Tim <>< (URL) timcourtne ICQ: (...) (25 years ago, 13-Aug-99, to lugnet.cad.dev, lugnet.admin.general)
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Message is in Reply To:
| | Re: i admit i was wrong
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| (...) OK, here's the analogy. Imagine that there is this magnificent glass building in a pleasant corner of town. It's ten stories tall with clear windows going up all the sides and covering all the insides. The rooms inside are all sorts of neat (...) (25 years ago, 13-Aug-99, to lugnet.cad.dev, lugnet.admin.general)
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