LEGO Direct : 3462


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what makes a legend? —

Brad Justus

We're having a debate here in the ABS-paved halls of LEGO Direct that I'd like to throw open to the community. The topic is: what makes a LEGO Legend a legend? Or, more precisely, if we cannot bring back a set precisely as it was (or pretty darn (...) (23 years ago, 19-Oct-01, to lugnet.lego.direct) !!

Re: what makes a legend? —Matthew Gerber

(...) <snip> (...) <snip> (...) <snip> (...) I think the best way to illustrate your point here, Brad, is to point out the 1974 helicopter instructions on page 16 of the September-October 2001Mania Magazine. I personally thought that this "re-do" of (...) (23 years ago, 19-Oct-01, to lugnet.lego.direct)

Re: what makes a legend? —Pedro Silva

(...) Thank you! I am always glad to help any way I can! (...) (Snipped) (...) Yes... But don't tell me you destroyed the molds! :-( (...) Ok, here goes my opinion: As for metal-axle wheelsets, the replacement is ok (old axles might get rusty... I (...) (23 years ago, 19-Oct-01, to lugnet.lego.direct)

Re: what makes a legend? —Richard Morton

Hi Brad, I think Matthew has pretty much got it bang on here - I agree that the helicopter instructions were great in the Mania magazine. The new version of the model had the same spirit as the original one, even though some of the bricks were (...) (23 years ago, 19-Oct-01, to lugnet.lego.direct)

Re: what makes a legend? —Lars Brandt

A "Legend" is in the eye of the beholder. That being said, here are my beholdings: There are two types of "Legends". One, a set I owned that was great to build, great to look at, great to play with. The second type (the more important one), is a set (...) (23 years ago, 19-Oct-01, to lugnet.lego.direct)

Re: what makes a legend? —Jonathan Wilson

(...) I would be more than happy to accept changes in a set if it ment that we would be able to see classics. Even such major replacements as changing a train set to run on 9v track would be more than acceptable, if it ment we were able to purchase (...) (23 years ago, 19-Oct-01, to lugnet.lego.direct)

Re: what makes a legend? —Melody Brown

(...) Hi Brad, in my own personal thoughts, to me, a LEGO Legend is a typical classic set with (this does all depend on certain ways of looking at it, mind you) maybe pieces that are hard to get in any other set, such as the Guarded in does come (...) (23 years ago, 19-Oct-01, to lugnet.lego.direct)

Re: what makes a legend? —Bob Parker

In lugnet.lego.direct, Brad Justus writes: snip (...) snip (...) Well, here's my 2¢: Because I really really like older Lego sets compared to newer sets, I personally would be willing to allow MANY changes to take place. If you were to release one (...) (23 years ago, 19-Oct-01, to lugnet.lego.direct)

Re: What makes a legend? —Richard Noeckel

(...) Some specifics would help… If your alluding specifically to Space sets predating 1980 then we could easily determine which particular sets would likely be chosen for the 2002 up-coming Legends line. With this finite list and our resources we (...) (23 years ago, 20-Oct-01, to lugnet.lego.direct)

Re: What makes a legend? —Jeff Findley

(...) I'd guess that compromises would include: No old style TV antenna on the top of the mini-base. This I could live without. I always thought it looked kind-of silly anyway. Just replace it with a straight antenna (use one like the two on top of (...) (23 years ago, 24-Oct-01, to lugnet.lego.direct)

Re: What makes a legend? —Richard Marchetti

(...) Yeah, I don't think of that one as a big loss in the age of cable, unless you were going for that 1950s-1970s look in a town MOC or something. (...) Actually, the crater plate probably exists. See this 1996 set in the database: (URL) No old (...) (23 years ago, 24-Oct-01, to lugnet.lego.direct)

Re: What makes a legend? —James Stacey

Hurrah - I totally agree if one piece should be brought back this is it. unfortunately what people seem to have forgotten is that the visors on the knights in the yellow castle have probably also gone and they are kinda integral to the feel of the (...) (23 years ago, 25-Oct-01, to lugnet.lego.direct)

Re: What makes a legend? —Jeff Findley

(...) I had forgotten about this, but I think you may be right. Playing with these sets as a kid, I remember breaking many of these old style helmets. The common failure mode was the chin strap's inability to withstand the compressive force of a 40 (...) (23 years ago, 26-Oct-01, to lugnet.lego.direct)

Re: what makes a legend? —Mike Walsh

"Brad Justus" <legodirect@lego.com> wrote in message news:GLH3tC.Iw@lugnet.com... (...) [ ... snipped ... ] (...) and (...) mistakes (...) [ ... snipped ... ] (...) I am still thinking about how to answer all of your questions but in the meantime, (...) (23 years ago, 20-Oct-01, to lugnet.lego.direct)

Re: what makes a legend? —Geoff Gray

(...) My initial thought is "do not cross out an entire group. You may find some sets are more readily reproduced than others". Having said that, I have no problem living with stickers for printed pieces. I also have no problem with substituting (...) (23 years ago, 20-Oct-01, to lugnet.lego.direct)

Re: what makes a legend? —Ed Jones

(...) I can definitely live without the metal-axle wheels - others may not. But its the design of the buildings of those sets that is great and why they should be reissued. The loss of a metal axle is not a show stopper for me. (...) In reality, no. (...) (23 years ago, 20-Oct-01, to lugnet.lego.direct)

Re: what makes a legend? —Larry Pieniazek

In lugnet.lego.direct, Brad Justus writes: Other people have posted some great ideas but one I wanted to toss out is to use the Lugnet set database as one data source. A large number of people have already voted on what sets they like there, and I (...) (23 years ago, 20-Oct-01, to lugnet.lego.direct)

Re: what makes a legend? —Kai Brodersen

<snip> (...) Very Old Space Sets!!!!!! (23 years ago, 20-Oct-01, to lugnet.lego.direct)

Re: what makes a legend? —Scott Sanburn

Brad & All, (...) Thanks for the honor, sir! : ) (...) Hmm... it really depends on the set. Some sets, which are pretty easy to replicate in terms of parts selections, a few parts either changed or modified is fine.I think most of the LUGNET (...) (23 years ago, 20-Oct-01, to lugnet.lego.direct)

Re: what makes a legend? —John P. Henderson

(...) Heehee! Actually, since I never bought the Wild West Native sets, and I already have many Castle sets, the addition of this "Barbarian Horse" was strangely welcome in my collection... (...) Hey! Now there's an idea... Imagine having a (...) (23 years ago, 23-Oct-01, to lugnet.lego.direct)

Re: what makes a legend? —Sheree Rosenkrantz

(...) Might some consideration also be given to bringing back some accessory sets to complement the "Legend sets" already released and the others which are to come? I am thinking about the highly desired and "Fabled" if not "Legendary" Cypress Tree (...) (23 years ago, 20-Oct-01, to lugnet.lego.direct)

Re: what makes a legend? —William R. Ward

(...) This would depend on the individual set in question. I suspect you'd have a hard time reproducing the crater plates and landing-pad plates from old space sets, but even without any plates, or with plain grey plates, I think a Galaxy Explorer (...) (23 years ago, 20-Oct-01, to lugnet.lego.direct)

Re: what makes a legend? —Allan Bedford

(...) I hope the Wayback Machine has settings for the 70's. :) (...) Are you referring to the 2x4 black bricks with the 'plug in' wheels that could go on the long or short sides? Or are you meaning the 2x2 black bricks with the preinstalled smaller (...) (23 years ago, 20-Oct-01, to lugnet.lego.direct)

Re: what makes a legend? —Dan Dickerson

How about a book of legends? Reprint the old contruction manuals from sets in the 60s - 80s in one large book. Sets that you cannot/will not reissue, so that the book won't compete with your own products. The plans on Brickshelf are generally not (...) (23 years ago, 20-Oct-01, to lugnet.lego.direct)

Re: what makes a legend? —Allan Bedford

(...) A terrific idea Dan. 'The Ultimate Instruction Book'. A companion piece to 'The Ultimate LEGO Book'. (...) But why not put a reasonable price on it? LEGO already puts a premium price on every brick we buy. The work on these instructions is (...) (23 years ago, 20-Oct-01, to lugnet.lego.direct)

Re: what makes a legend? —Larry Pieniazek

(...) ?? I have never found this to be the case, can you provide some examples? Brickshelf scans are typically at very very high resolution. As good or better as the print quality itself and images printed from them are as good as any reproduction (...) (23 years ago, 20-Oct-01, to lugnet.lego.direct)

Re: what makes a legend? —Ronan Webb

I think the point is that to work with the (excellent) brickshelf instructions usually requires being able to print in hi res at some point. This is not always an option. RW (...) (23 years ago, 21-Oct-01, to lugnet.lego.direct)

Re: what makes a legend? —Dan Dickerson

(...) #398 USS Constellation is missing step #15. There are several others with problems, but I can't remember exactly which ones. It is often the Technic plans that are not clear. As Ronan Webb said, the problem is in the printing. High resolution, (...) (23 years ago, 23-Oct-01, to lugnet.lego.direct)

Re: what makes a legend? —Mike Walsh

"Dan Dickerson" <dickersn@earthlink.net> wrote in message news:GLnGCG.424@lugnet.com... [ ... snipped ... ] (...) front (...) doing (...) I would love to see LEGO make older instructions and Idea books available for download from their web site as (...) (23 years ago, 23-Oct-01, to lugnet.lego.direct)

Re: what makes a legend? —Tim David

(...) The scans on brickshelf are a useful reference and i have found them very useful, but you can't, for example lie in bed and read them and dream (bout all i do when it comes to lego!) <snip> (...) To download and print out costs time and money (...) (23 years ago, 24-Oct-01, to lugnet.lego.direct)

Re: what makes a legend? —Ronan Webb

I'm sure a 'series' of reprints would sell well. RW (...) (23 years ago, 21-Oct-01, to lugnet.lego.direct)

Re: Book of Legends —David Gregory

The book of legends is a GREAT idea. Maybe they could even make a whole encyclopedia style set of chronologically arranged instructions. (Yeah, right. Just call me the king of wishful thinking.) Another more realistic posibility would be a legends (...) (23 years ago, 23-Oct-01, to lugnet.lego.direct)

Re: what makes a legend? —Kevin Salm

(...) Personally, I don't know how to answer the above questions--it hurts my head. But I am going to stir up the sentiment that we do NOT need Legends or any other Lego set to be re-released. What has already been done as far as reissuing sets (...) (23 years ago, 20-Oct-01, to lugnet.lego.direct)

Re: what makes a legend? —Tom Reed

(...) This goes along with my idea of doing them in different colors! I wouldn't mind seeing improvements on older set designs and I wouldn't mind seeing some sets based on older designs (but different). I agree that lego designers should be able to (...) (23 years ago, 20-Oct-01, to lugnet.lego.direct)

Re: what makes a legend? —Allan Bedford

(...) I both agree and disagree with you Kevin. I think the reissues are an incredibly good idea. The music industry has been doing this successfully for years. It allows some folks to finally get a copy of a 'classic' set even though they may not (...) (23 years ago, 20-Oct-01, to lugnet.lego.direct)

Re: what makes a legend? —John P. Henderson

(...) I too would say, "Why not do both?" I think the spirit of the Legends series is great. Even if slight mods are needed to re-produce, the idea that I can get certain older sets that I missed the first time around is thrilling to me. The Guarded (...) (23 years ago, 23-Oct-01, to lugnet.lego.direct)

Re: what makes a legend? —Jeff Findley

(...) This is a bad idea. If you don't stay close enough to the original, AFOL's will not like the set. If you don't Juniorize some of these sets enough, it won't be cheap enough to sell to kids (with parents who aren't AFOL's) at your local TRU. (...) (23 years ago, 25-Oct-01, to lugnet.lego.direct)

Re: what makes a legend? —John Neal

(...) Speak for yourself. I for one wouldn't mind at all, and would welcome changes, especially in the unique colors for elements area. If you don't Juniorize some of these sets enough, it (...) Remember, we are talking about LEGO *Direct*. They do (...) (23 years ago, 25-Oct-01, to lugnet.lego.direct)

Re: what makes a legend? —Duane Hess

This has been pointed out before. The more things change, the more they stay the same... (...) (23 years ago, 25-Oct-01, to lugnet.lego.direct)

Re: what makes a legend? —Kevin Salm

(...) I disagree with these arguments. If a product is good, people will buy it. Keep in mind, also, that Lego Direct does not sell in normal retail channels. They currently only sell via catalog for online or telephone ordering. Your assumptions (...) (23 years ago, 30-Oct-01, to lugnet.lego.direct)

Re: what makes a legend? —Tom Reed

(...) SNIP! (...) First off, I would like to tell you how great it is that Lego is listening to it's audience and taking steps to bring back and recreate some of the sets that we relish and desire. Thanks for all that you have done! How many toy (...) (23 years ago, 20-Oct-01, to lugnet.lego.direct)

Re: What makes a legend? —Richard Noeckel

(...) Indeed!!!!!!!! A dark Gray 6075 castle would be phenomenal. (URL) wouldn’t be a be in the Legends line, but instead a ‘re-mastered classic!’) And along with a service pack or minifig pack would be most excellent. (URL) (or) (URL) I honestly do (...) (23 years ago, 20-Oct-01, to lugnet.lego.direct)

Re: what makes a legend? —Geoffrey Hyde

"Brad Justus" <legodirect@lego.com> wrote in message news:GLH3tC.Iw@lugnet.com... [snip] (...) we're (...) order (...) plates, (...) of (...) different (...) so (...) How does not having the mold for an element affect it's reproducibility? I would (...) (23 years ago, 20-Oct-01, to lugnet.lego.direct)

Re: what makes a legend? —Larry Pieniazek

(...) Sure, there is SOME way (...) But that's it. Cost. This is a low budget operation and molds are not cheap. Precision tolerances are pricey. I have heard numbers batted around that I have a bit of faith in even though they were speculation... (...) (23 years ago, 20-Oct-01, to lugnet.lego.direct)

Re: what makes a legend? —Allan Bedford

(...) The solution here seems obvious... and free. Use more plain old regular bricks in the design of future sets. No need for new molds. No debates over specialized/juniorized parts. And best of all, more good old fashioned bricks with which to (...) (23 years ago, 24-Oct-01, to lugnet.lego.direct)

Re: what makes a legend? —Larry Pieniazek

(...) "every problem has a simple solution. Unfortunately, it's often wrong" Just thought I'd toss that out to ponder. (...) Great advice in general. Not a valid response to Geoffrey who is asking "why can't we have this part back that we don't have (...) (23 years ago, 24-Oct-01, to lugnet.lego.direct)

Re: what makes a legend? —Scott Sanburn

To All, Something to think about in terms of mold cost. When I worked in a plastic injection molding plant in Fowlerville, Michigan, a few moons ago, they were making molds for various hard plastic parts for various customersd, such as Ford. A (...) (23 years ago, 24-Oct-01, to lugnet.lego.direct)

Re: what makes a legend? —Allan Bedford

(...) Strange quote. The way I've heard it is, "The best solution is often the simplest one." Maybe I should stop hanging around software engineers. :) (...) I wasn't really trying to answer Geoffrey's question. My apologies if it seemed that I was. (...) (23 years ago, 24-Oct-01, to lugnet.lego.direct)

Re: what makes a legend? —Lindsay Frederick Braun

(...) <and later> (...) That's been my reading of the subject. LD has to go to the feeding trough as an intruding tendril of the company, rather than as its lifeblood--in a sense, it's a shoot off of the main vine that continues to get stronger, but (...) (23 years ago, 24-Oct-01, to lugnet.lego.direct)

Re: what makes a legend? —Steve Demlow

(...) Lego Direct cannot, as a matter of policy, create new molds for its sets, so it has a big impact. (This is a totally different restriction than that of using existing molds with new colors, as has already been done in LD sets.) One specific (...) (23 years ago, 21-Oct-01, to lugnet.lego.direct)

Re: what makes a legend? —John P. Henderson

(...) Actually, I recall trying to adapt different helmet and hairstyles to older sets, and I have sometimes found that they did not fit. Certain hairstyles in Town can only be used in vehicles that have sunroofs or no roof, and in Space certain (...) (23 years ago, 23-Oct-01, to lugnet.lego.direct)

Re: what makes a legend? —Richard Marchetti

(...) Pardon me, but how do you know this? I'd like to see a reference for this statement. Has Brad, or someone else, stated this emphatically somewhere before? -- Hop-Frog (23 years ago, 24-Oct-01, to lugnet.lego.direct)

Re: what makes a legend? —Matthew Gerber

(...) Oh man...I remember seeing a post where Brad did say this (at BrickFest™), but I'll be darned if I can remember where/who. Larry might be the one to remember...he may have been the one who posted it originally. Brad did mention not having old (...) (23 years ago, 24-Oct-01, to lugnet.lego.direct)

Re: what makes a legend? —Larry Pieniazek

(...) Is that a TM or an SM? GRIN. (...) I cannot confirm or deny that Brad said this. (...) ++Lar (23 years ago, 24-Oct-01, to lugnet.lego.direct)

Re: what makes a legend? —John Neal

(...) Richard is correct in questioning this, because it isn't true. LD can do just about anything it wants, but within certain boundaries. Brad could initiate a new theme, but the process to do that is long and time consuming (years). They could (...) (23 years ago, 24-Oct-01, to lugnet.lego.direct)

Re: what makes a legend? —Richard Marchetti

(...) Yeah, but in this case I am trying to raise the specter of element molds now gone, and not necessarily worry about "new" elements or themes. There seems to be at least an assertion that LD will not reproduce molds for elements from the past in (...) (23 years ago, 24-Oct-01, to lugnet.lego.direct)

Re: what makes a legend? —Matthew Gerber

(...) While I see your point, Richard, I think the crux of the matter, and perhaps the ultimate answer to Brad's original question is this: In order to keep development/marketing costs down for LEGO Direct, rather than trying to figure out what (...) (23 years ago, 24-Oct-01, to lugnet.lego.direct)

Re: what makes a legend? —John Neal

(...) 15K sounds cheap-- more like twice that. Remember, LD is *direct*, and doesn't have the luxury of a huge market (like retail). LD can release a set with no new parts and could sell merely 1,000s and be profitable, but a new theme needs to sell (...) (23 years ago, 24-Oct-01, to lugnet.lego.direct)

Re: what makes a legend? —Steve Demlow

(...) John and I were both there and heard Brad say the same thing (unless John knows something I don't, which may well be true) but apparently we have different interpretations. I took Brad's comment about "no new molds" to mean that it was part of (...) (23 years ago, 25-Oct-01, to lugnet.lego.direct)

Re: what makes a legend? —John Neal

(...) Maybe you know something I don't! Are you referring to Brad's visit to the GMLTC (which I *missed* because I was out of town?) but apparently we have (...) I am not disagreeing with Steve-- it isn't relevant, really, from where the policy (...) (23 years ago, 25-Oct-01, to lugnet.lego.direct)

Re: what makes a legend? —Steve Demlow

(...) Yep - I assumed you were referring to the same event, but obviously not. (...) We can hope!! (And, buy, to encourage the hope in a concrete way. ;) Steve (23 years ago, 25-Oct-01, to lugnet.lego.direct)

Re: what makes a legend? —Jeff Findley

(...) My suggestion was to use the newer-style space/town helmet with a clear visor. The old, non-visor, helmets are a more retro look, but they were *very* fragile. I think less than half of my old style helmets survived. The thin piece below the (...) (23 years ago, 25-Oct-01, to lugnet.lego.direct)

Re: what makes a legend? —Ronald Vallenduuk

There's a load of reactions here already, so I'll keep it short. I't very hard to give an overall verdict on replacement parts. I mean, almost invisible changes, like the minifig heads, would be hard to object to. In fact, even the 2x4 basic brick (...) (23 years ago, 20-Oct-01, to lugnet.lego.direct)

Re: what makes a legend? —Amy Hughes

Two things that make a classic for me: a good design and interesting, useful, versatile pieces. I don't care about the wheels as long as the new design looks good, but a club car without the cool windows isn't a club car. Had you not been able to (...) (23 years ago, 20-Oct-01, to lugnet.lego.direct)

Re: what makes a legend? —Magnus Lauglo

First off, let me thank you for going out to the lego community like this and actually asking us what we think about this. It shows us you are aware of us as a relevant source for opinions. My other great hobby apart from lego is that I am a huge (...) (23 years ago, 20-Oct-01, to lugnet.lego.direct)

Re: what makes a legend? —Ben Gatrelle

(...) I have to disagree with this. For me, one of the things that make this set a Classic/Legend is those horses you had to build yourself. I would even balk at, but could accept, the change in the knights' helmets and the requisite change in the (...) (23 years ago, 21-Oct-01, to lugnet.lego.direct)

Re: what makes a legend? —John Rudy

(...) Ben et All, I'm sorry to disagree with you here, Ben, but I can't stand a classic spaceman with a newer style helmet. If a Galaxy Explorer or some other classic was released with the new helmets instead of the thin chins, I'd be throughly (...) (23 years ago, 21-Oct-01, to lugnet.lego.direct)

RE: what makes a legend? —Doug Finney

(...) I have my own particular parts hang-ups too, but helmets aren't among them. But to my way of thinking, I'd much rather be able to buy a new Galaxy Explorer with new-style helmets and have to track down old helmets on Brickbay than buy a used (...) (23 years ago, 22-Oct-01, to lugnet.lego.direct)

Re: what makes a legend? —James Brown

(...) Ditto. I suspect most AFOLs would rather have a Legend that is 99% accurate than not have a Legend at all. thanks, James (23 years ago, 22-Oct-01, to lugnet.lego.direct)

Re: what makes a legend? —Michael Dallaston

(...) I think this too. I'm an original space fan and the thought of them walking around with big chunky helmuts disgusts me (not as much as Jack Stone, though!) Also re: wheels - Many of the classic space and Blacktron sets came with those large (...) (23 years ago, 22-Oct-01, to lugnet.lego.direct)

Re: what makes a legend? —Lindsay Frederick Braun

(...) Eh, I'd be fine with BT-I having those helmets. The actual helmets they sported were the same, IIRC. (...) They already are compatible with something else--the Technic axle. That is, if you and I are thinking of the same tyres: (URL)Finally, I (...) (23 years ago, 23-Oct-01, to lugnet.lego.direct)

RE: what makes a legend? —Bram Lambrecht

(...) They are already compatible with them. See M-Tron: (URL) (...) (URL) LEGO great? --Bram Bram Lambrecht bram@cwru.edu www.bldesign.org (23 years ago, 23-Oct-01, to lugnet.lego.direct)

Re: what makes a legend? —John P. Henderson

(...) Wow. I feel a generation gap coming on. Only just now, part way into the new millenium and half way through this thread, did I recognize the fact that the old style helmet is no longer available! I have so many of them in my collection, I (...) (23 years ago, 23-Oct-01, to lugnet.lego.direct)

Re: what makes a legend? —Tim David

<snip> (...) <snip> Well me too, i always thoughts that they just added various visors/face masks etc to the existing helmet, i'll hav to have a look. mind you i did notice that the originals are a bit fagile Tim (23 years ago, 24-Oct-01, to lugnet.lego.direct)

Re: what makes a legend? —Matt Hein

Well, I would think it to be a good idea if LEGO released accessory kits to go along with the legend theme. The voting thing is okay, but I'm looking for a re-release of a classic space set and more castle sets! Anyways, keep it up! You're doing a (...) (23 years ago, 20-Oct-01, to lugnet.lego.direct)

Re: what makes a legend? —Jeff Findley

(...) Actually, it would be cool if along with the Ledgends sets there were acessory packs created at the same time as the sets. For example, if there were pieces in some older sets that weren't used in newer sets, but the molds still exist, the (...) (23 years ago, 25-Oct-01, to lugnet.lego.direct)

Re: what makes a legend? —Steve Bliss

(...) Something like the one in this set: (URL)? Steve (who woulda been *really* ecstatic if 6457 had included the female astronaut face) Bliss (23 years ago, 26-Oct-01, to lugnet.lego.direct)

Re: what makes a legend? —Jeff Findley

(...) That's it. Unfortunately, that appears to be a version you can't get in the US. If you enter set 6457 into the LEGO S@H web site, you get this ugly thing: (URL)Steve (who woulda been *really* ecstatic if 6457 had included the female (...) I (...) (23 years ago, 26-Oct-01, to lugnet.lego.direct)

Re: what makes a legend? —Richard Morton

Jeff, I have one of these in my collection and I have just been doing a bit of digging around to see ehich set it came from. There is one that is still current - 6458 (URL) bought this from lego shop at home just over a month ago, so they may still (...) (23 years ago, 26-Oct-01, to lugnet.lego.direct)

Re: what makes a legend? —Jorge Fernandez

(...) You have defined a LEGO Legend very well, any set that became a "landmark" is a good candidate, either because it was the first set in a theme or because it was a market success. I guess it depends on how dramatic the difference between the (...) (23 years ago, 20-Oct-01, to lugnet.lego.direct)

Re: what makes a legend? —Erik Olson

(...) Yuck! That would no longer be a window. Better to redesign it. Take this as a tricky case study in substitution. Recall: it's a 1x4x3 window space, with 6 red 1x1 windows in the middle flanked by yellow 1x1 rounds. A narrow red train window (...) (23 years ago, 20-Oct-01, to lugnet.lego.direct)

Re: what makes a legend? —Kevin Wilson

Brad Justus wrote in message ... (...) <snip> (...) are (...) we -- (...) details? I agree with those who have written that the spirit of the set is more important than the details of individual parts. Specifically, I don't care about the metal (...) (23 years ago, 20-Oct-01, to lugnet.lego.direct)

Re: what makes a legend? —John P. Henderson

(...) Great ideas! ...Although if they ran Nautica sets I would be bankrupt within a month... <silly grimace>... ...On the otherhand, I knew there was a reason I haven't spent money on the Metroliner yet. Ah, if only my harbor could have yet another (...) (23 years ago, 23-Oct-01, to lugnet.lego.direct)

Re: what makes a legend? —Mark Herzberg

Just my opinion, but, whatever you do, at least in the case of town, make sure it's a unique set. Not another police or fire station. Try to think Main Street/6390 (<<--My #1), Public Works Centre/6383, Holiday Airport/6395, Weekend Home/6370, etc. (...) (23 years ago, 20-Oct-01, to lugnet.lego.direct)

Re: what makes a legend? —Shawn Gibson

In regards to your question, I feel certain changes such as wheels and stickers are totally accaptable, as long as the reason for the change is explained before hand. The only changes I would be against are changes in the colour of pieces (I (...) (23 years ago, 20-Oct-01, to lugnet.lego.direct)

Re: what makes a legend? —Eric Lanteigne

(...) I would have to say that what made Lego such a great toy in the 80s was the level of sophistication in the design. That sophistication is why you have a huge adult follow up these days. This is how kids play: the get the toy, examine it (...) (23 years ago, 21-Oct-01, to lugnet.lego.direct)

Re: what makes a legend? —John Neal

(...) <snip> A great question. To me, it has a lot less to do with nostalgia, and more with set complexity. I do understand the current catch-22 that TLC is facing these days with its juniorization policy of sets (feeling the need to hook younger (...) (23 years ago, 21-Oct-01, to lugnet.lego.direct)

Re: what makes a legend? —Allan Bedford

(...) Short, sweet and to the point. You summed up the entire problem in your last sentence. LEGO buyers are BEGGING for good quality sets. (...) The point that I think often gets lost here is not *keeping* the sets together forever (you're right, (...) (23 years ago, 21-Oct-01, to lugnet.lego.direct)

Re: what makes a legend? —Scott Lyttle

(...) No more metal axle wheel sets? NOT A PROBLEM!!! Sticker versus decorated items--this seems to be an issue. As someone with a manufacturing engineering degree (and a brother who's in the printing business), and the fact that you can't produce (...) (23 years ago, 21-Oct-01, to lugnet.lego.direct)

Re: what makes a legend? —Mike Timm

(...) Changes that keep the spirit and character of a set 'alive' are fine (i.e. the wheels and the hollow studs on the minifig head). To use another's example, making a #375/6075 Yellow Castle with the various wall bricks are not. I'd have to go (...) (23 years ago, 21-Oct-01, to lugnet.lego.direct)

Re: what makes a legend? —John Gerlach

(...) Oh my, such a simple question, but with so many complicated ways to answer! This is like asking 'what makes a good wine', or 'what makes a good movie'... Good pieces, sure - but not everyone buys a set just for the pieces. Some people buys (...) (23 years ago, 21-Oct-01, to lugnet.lego.direct)

Re: what makes a legend? —Allan Bedford

(...) Brad, It would appear that the LUGNET community (as would be expected) has come through with dozens of responses to your questions. I'm sure it goes without saying, but I do hope you folks realize how fortunate you are to have this much free (...) (23 years ago, 22-Oct-01, to lugnet.lego.direct) !

Re: what makes a legend? —Mike McKee

First, let me say that although some of my comments regarding 10000, 10001, & 10002 may have, in the past, sounded a little nit-picky, LEGENDS RULES in every way! Thank you! I’ve posted some of my nit-picky comments to the forum so that the (...) (23 years ago, 22-Oct-01, to lugnet.lego.direct)

Re: what makes a legend? —Reinhard "Ben" Beneke

In lugnet.lego.direct, Brad Justus writes: First let me answer your very first question out of the subject line: "what makes a legend?" In my eyes a legend has at least one out of the following two characteristic qualities: - it is standing far over (...) (23 years ago, 22-Oct-01, to lugnet.lego.direct)

Re: what makes a legend? —Dave Lovelace

The Legend idea was thrilling to me in June. I've since had some time to realize how bad it is, though. Problems: 1) Your mail-order-only / internet market is a bunch of older people like me who already have five Galaxy Explorers and thirteen Yellow (...) (23 years ago, 22-Oct-01, to lugnet.lego.direct)

Re: what makes a legend? —John P. Henderson

(...) I hate to argue against a fellow AFOL, but I've collected since 1978 and I have neither of the sets you mention. In those younger years, I was lucky to get one copy of a small or mid-size set in those themes. So, my point is, there are some in (...) (23 years ago, 23-Oct-01, to lugnet.lego.direct)

Re: what makes a legend? —Allan Bedford

(...) Ummm, is this true? Aren't there any kids out there without access to a Toys-R-Us who perhaps count on the Shop At Home catalog to fulfill birthday and Christmas lists? If the Shop At Home stuff is just for adults, then why don't they put out (...) (23 years ago, 24-Oct-01, to lugnet.lego.direct)

Re: What makes a legend? —Richard Noeckel

Very nicely said Allen! I kinda feel sorry for the Lego development team who create Jack Stone. Cause everybody seams to be targeting their irritation towards this particular line. Although this angst is justified and has merit, it appears that (...) (23 years ago, 24-Oct-01, to lugnet.lego.direct, lugnet.general)

Re: What makes a legend? —Larry Pieniazek

(...) So much for Pirates, then. :-) Pirates respect no borders and repell all boarders. What's a good pirate ship without some boarders? XFUT .fun (23 years ago, 24-Oct-01, to lugnet.lego.direct, lugnet.general, lugnet.off-topic.fun)

Re: What makes a legend? —John Neal

(...) Let me take a stab at defending the Jack Stone line, and maybe we can get to the real issue at hand. First of all, I don't see or hear anyone ripping on the Duplo line as "juniorized", or "doesn't integrate well" into System. Why not? Because (...) (23 years ago, 24-Oct-01, to lugnet.lego.direct, lugnet.general)

Re: what makes a legend? —Jeff Findley

(...) The point is: 1. My Galaxy Explorer isn't complete since many pieces are long gone. 2. The instructions are trashed beyond all recognition. 3. Some of the pieces I do still have for it are scratched up. 4. It would be so great to get a brand (...) (23 years ago, 25-Oct-01, to lugnet.lego.direct)

Re: what makes a legend? —Jason J. Railton

(...) As a member of the Lego-buying community, can I just say how fantastic what you're doing is. I'll admit I haven't bought a Guarded Inn (yet)*, and I doubt I'll fork out for a Metroliner (my trains are all British steam-era customs), but just (...) (23 years ago, 22-Oct-01, to lugnet.lego.direct)

Re: what makes a legend? —Magnus Lauglo

Like most people here, I would prefer printed bricks instead of stickers. But if you are going to print on bricks, is it possible to do so a bit more precisely than on some of the Guarded Inn sets, which apparently had some printing problems on the (...) (23 years ago, 22-Oct-01, to lugnet.lego.direct)

Re: what makes a legend? —Paul Maxwell

Brad, I'm willing to accept any changes you have to make in order to get some of the old castle sets (including 1592 Castle Town Square or the Weetabix Castle). As for things like metel axles or ventless minifig heads... I have plenty. Paul (...) (...) (23 years ago, 22-Oct-01, to lugnet.lego.direct)

Re: what makes a legend? —James Simpson

(...) Brad: IMO, a Legend is a "best-of" in terms of quality, set design, elements selection, utility, and attractiveness. I personally don't mind if different non-juniorized parts have to be substituted, but it is very important to me that any (...) (23 years ago, 22-Oct-01, to lugnet.lego.direct)

Re: what makes a legend? —David Weiler-Thiessen

In lugnet.lego.direct, Brad Justus writes: Hi Brad (...) For starters, I think a lot of what makes a legend a legend depends on the age of the person being asked. I for one was born in '68, and started with LEGO when I was about 6-8 years old. For (...) (23 years ago, 22-Oct-01, to lugnet.lego.direct)

Re: what makes a legend? —Steve Tanner

I agree with the majority here in saying that as long as the "tone" and "feel" of the sets remains intact (without juniorization), then changing out of parts is fine. One thing though: please no stickers. They are just cheap and as has been (...) (23 years ago, 22-Oct-01, to lugnet.lego.direct)

Re: what makes a legend? —Erik L. Knopp

While I dmit to being a bit disturbed at the idea of substitutions being made (wheels, stickers or otherwise) I understand the reasons why it may have to be done. As for what set(s) should be done as Legends, I would like to suggest that some of the (...) (23 years ago, 22-Oct-01, to lugnet.lego.direct)

Re: what makes a legend? —John P. Henderson

(...) <big snip> As is evident by the 60+ messages in this thread already (in just a few days) I would say that this topic is very broad and almost every person in this forum has an opinion. That being said, I apologize now if I am about to simply (...) (23 years ago, 22-Oct-01, to lugnet.lego.direct)

Re: what makes a legend? —Jude Beaudin

<snipped all of it> Brad, See the above posts and one thing is clear, we want more legend sets. :-) As far as modifying design due to current limitations, use you common sense. We do not want a Galaxy Explorer without wings. ;-) But we do understand (...) (23 years ago, 22-Oct-01, to lugnet.lego.direct)

Re: what makes a legend? —Tim Courtney

"Jude Beaudin" <shiningblade@home.com> wrote in message news:GLMp57.GIG@lugnet.com... (...) sense. (...) ....nor do we want a Galaxy Enforcer without wings. -Tim (23 years ago, 22-Oct-01, to lugnet.off-topic.fun)

Re: what makes a legend? —Matthew Gerber

(...) Now, now Tim...let's not go opening THAT particular can of worms again! 8?) Matt (23 years ago, 22-Oct-01, to lugnet.off-topic.fun)

Re: what makes a legend? —Lindsay Frederick Braun

(...) That is an excellent idea for a space craft, Matthew. I think that I will use it my self. A can of worms does not need wings, and it can have guns and engines on all of the worms which are also super space worms and can fire in any direction. (...) (23 years ago, 23-Oct-01, to lugnet.off-topic.fun)

Re: what makes a legend? —Matthew Gerber

(...) LOL! Brilliant! (You'll hear from my lawyer) Matt (23 years ago, 23-Oct-01, to lugnet.off-topic.fun)

Re: what makes a legend? —Dave Johann

(...) Actually, it's Fnord...makers of the Clydesdale Hoverthing. See the following thread: (URL) Cheers! -Dave (23 years ago, 23-Oct-01, to lugnet.off-topic.fun)

Re: what makes a legend? —Kyle Keppler

(...) Muhahahahahahahhahaha. Oh my! --Kyle (URL) (23 years ago, 24-Oct-01, to lugnet.off-topic.fun)

Re: what makes a legend? —Jude Beaudin

(...) I knew you would catch that. :-) Jude (23 years ago, 23-Oct-01, to lugnet.off-topic.fun)

Re: what makes a legend? —Lars Brandt

After reading the other comments from other members, I think I actually have changed my mind a bit (I offered my comment on Friday, when you first posted your message, now I've had a weekend to think about it). The more I think about a Legend, I (...) (23 years ago, 22-Oct-01, to lugnet.lego.direct)

Re: what makes a legend? —John Neal

(...) Although I think Lars is being a bit extreme in calling a re-issue with less than 99% original parts dishonest (in advertising, I presume), he does bring up a very good point, to my way of thinking. Even if LD recreates every printed brick, (...) (23 years ago, 23-Oct-01, to lugnet.lego.direct)

Re: what makes a legend? —David Schilling

(...) I have to disagree a little with this only because I don't think that we should relegate the only sets issued 'in that vein' to being the half dozen 'Legends' that LEGO releases each year. I would hope instead, that as LEGO senses the (...) (23 years ago, 23-Oct-01, to lugnet.lego.direct)

Re: what makes a legend? —Reinhard "Ben" Beneke

In lugnet.lego.direct, John Neal writes: [snip] (...) those (...) Exactely! So if these are not the real legendary sets, it might be better to make them noticable copies. (...) to (...) them (...) I (...) Same with me and lots of others: I do not (...) (23 years ago, 23-Oct-01, to lugnet.lego.direct)

Re: what makes a legend? —Richard Marchetti

(...) To me the characteristics of a Legendary set would include excellent design (a graceful and ingenius configuration of elements), unique elements (elements rare in design), and useful elements (elements that probably belong in accessory packs). (...) (23 years ago, 23-Oct-01, to lugnet.lego.direct)

Re: what makes a legend? —Matthew Greene

(...) A legend is a model that is unique in design (for the time period) and beggs to be expanded, have a space port, castle village or town built around it. It is one that starts a whole line of story and truly expresses originality. If the spirit (...) (23 years ago, 23-Oct-01, to lugnet.lego.direct)

Re: what makes a legend? —Johannes Koehler

Hello! (I didn't read all of the answers given to Brad's posting, so it might be that some of my points have been brought by others already.) What makes a legend? First of all: The "legend" is the OLD set, the ORIGINAL. The new released sets are (...) (23 years ago, 23-Oct-01, to lugnet.lego.direct)

Re: what makes a legend? —Rich Moberg

(...) From my little corner one of two things can make a legend: 1) The original 'model' was creative, imaginative and showed off what you can do with the parts included (Guraded Inn, Redbeard Runner) 2) The original set contained enough variety and (...) (23 years ago, 24-Oct-01, to lugnet.lego.direct)

Re: what makes a legend? —Mark Klein

(...) It has taken me five severe revisions to answer this very difficult question. Each time I allowed myself to go off topic into the realm of what I wanted to see, and what I thought LEGO could do to improve their company, rather than answer the (...) (23 years ago, 25-Oct-01, to lugnet.lego.direct)

Re: what makes a legend? —John P. Henderson

(...) Well, IMO, for your first post that was extremely well written! And I too would agree that this is perhaps the most interesting general topic I have seen since my internet dark age ended several months ago... I look forward to Brad's future (...) (23 years ago, 25-Oct-01, to lugnet.lego.direct)

Re: what makes a legend? —Jeff Findley

(...) If you want to go "way back" to a set that's mostly built of generic bricks, I'd highly suggest 565 Moon Landing. Surely there would be compromises. As far as stickers go, this set had stickers anyway, so substituting a few more printed (...) (23 years ago, 26-Oct-01, to lugnet.lego.direct)

Re: what makes a legend? —Allan Bedford

(...) I think this is at least the 2nd vote for this set, in response to the original question. Anyone else want to jump in and support it? (URL) think this set would make a good reissue for several reasons: 1) It is historically significant. It (...) (23 years ago, 27-Oct-01, to lugnet.lego.direct)

Re: what makes a legend? —James Simpson

(...) They could include sticker flags for other countries. Lego is about imagination. Let a kid have a Dutch moon landing, or whatever. james (23 years ago, 28-Oct-01, to lugnet.lego.direct)

Re: what makes a legend? —Thomas Main

In lugnet.lego.direct, Allan Bedford writes: <snip> (...) re-releasing it in gray!! I would want it in gray more than the original in blue. -- Thomas Main main@appstate.edu (...) (23 years ago, 29-Oct-01, to lugnet.lego.direct)

Re: what makes a legend? —Larry Pieniazek

(...) If you were going to bring out ONE set from the bighead era this would be my vote. However it's too old to be of interest from a parts perspective. It would probably not make my top 10 most wanted list. (23 years ago, 29-Oct-01, to lugnet.lego.direct)

Re: what makes a legend? —George Haberberger

(...) had the most play value of any that I got. I might even buy it again. George (23 years ago, 30-Oct-01, to lugnet.lego.direct)

Re: what makes a legend? —Mark Koeberl

(...) What makes a legend a legend is the same as asking what makes a favorite a favorite. Elements that answer this question have been posted: (...) level of sophistication in the design. That sophistication is why you have a huge adult follow up (...) (23 years ago, 1-Nov-01, to lugnet.lego.direct)