 | | Re: Did animals have rights before we invented rights?
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(...) Yes, I have asked it already, and yes, you've tried to answer it-- however, I either did not understand your response, or I find you to be in error for ever disagreeing with Larry about the issue. So, either please clarify by answering the (...) (23 years ago, 9-Jul-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: More LP S P A M : (was Re: Scary Survey results about the US First Amendment)
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(...) I ask this as a flat question, without intentionally hidden rhetoric: Is there another country of comparable size, population, and demographic and financial diversity that has a predominant and demonstrably successful privatized educational (...) (23 years ago, 9-Jul-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Conspiracy theories: little green men
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(...) yup, i think that was him. I looked around some more for my link, but I think i might not have actually saved it. In fact, I might have found it somewhere around Lugnet, but am not sure where to start looking, it has been a couple of months (...) (23 years ago, 9-Jul-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: More LP S P A M : (was Re: Scary Survey results about the US First Amendment)
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(...) Each to his own I suppose. (...) What is you could not afford it? (...) Private industry is just as bad as the government... in my opinion. Look at how wrong the private sector got the dot.coms (...) We are back to where we started - you still (...) (23 years ago, 9-Jul-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: More LP S P A M : (was Re: Scary Survey results about the US First Amendment)
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(...) Are you sure that the child will be corrupted? I would rather that the child be exposed to the realities of life so that it can form its own opinion on what is right/wrong. IF the parents are doing their job, then the child should be (...) (23 years ago, 9-Jul-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Did animals have rights before we invented rights?
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(...) Forget hidden meanings. I shall settle for a meaning. ;0 Scott A (...) (23 years ago, 9-Jul-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: More LP S P A M : (was Re: Scary Survey results about the US First Amendment)
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(...) So you would rather that kid was corrupted, than some sort of age check system was used? (...) Such as? Protecting children is what I expect government to do before almost anything. I expect government to supply children with free healthcare (...) (23 years ago, 9-Jul-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Did animals have rights before we invented rights?
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(...) My statement is exactly what it is. I try not to put hidden meanings behind my words. It keeps life simpler. -Duane (23 years ago, 9-Jul-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Conspiracy theories: little green men
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(...) I've read that quote--I think it was this guy: (URL) this article doesn't show the quote. (...) There was, of course, that awful movie "Wag the Dog." Dave! (23 years ago, 9-Jul-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: More LP S P A M : (was Re: Scary Survey results about the US First Amendment)
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(...) That's the parent's duty - not mine, or the governments for that matter either. I would rather the government do something useful, not tell me what I can/cannot say, or what my children can/cannot see or hear. If a parent can't keep track of (...) (23 years ago, 9-Jul-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Conspiracy theories: men on the moon
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heh, I enjoyed watching "capricorn one". I hope no one is taking this thread as direct challenge. Though I am a believer in the moon landings, I understand that it is possible (though unlikely) that I could have been led astray. (...) (23 years ago, 9-Jul-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Did animals have rights before we invented rights?
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(...) I would have thought that was evident. Rather than just saying "I agree", I thought your statement had more substance? Scott A (...) (23 years ago, 9-Jul-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Did animals have rights before we invented rights?
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(...) I do not speak American English. ;) (...) I think Larry did that last week did he not? Look here: (URL) you read it, you will see it was actually in a reply to YOU. It is a few messages above this one. Next time, take the time to think before (...) (23 years ago, 9-Jul-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: More LP S P A M : (was Re: Scary Survey results about the US First Amendment)
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(...) Personally, I would think it is bad that any group is "working hard as we speak to ensure US kids can be exposed to porn and violence." - call me a prude if you wish. (...) What if a kid has a parent that does not care - is that OK? What if (...) (23 years ago, 9-Jul-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Conspiracy theories: little green men
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In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Daniel Jassim writes: <snip> (...) There is link somewhere in my favorites folder that I cannot find at the moment (this folder is dire need of organizing) which offers a cite about a creationist who would not believe a (...) (23 years ago, 9-Jul-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Conspiracy theories: men on the moon
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I am highly appreciative for sites such as this. Often they can explain better thatn myself the differece between scientific fact and personal biased speculation... I took the liberty of reading several articles on that site thoroughly absorbed (...) (23 years ago, 9-Jul-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: on topic?
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my post here was emotional I suppose. The thread "is this sexism?" has changed topic several times now and did not seem to be a bother, at least not for me. Then a personal argument sprung up where someone became irritated that the topic had changed (...) (23 years ago, 9-Jul-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Did animals have rights before we invented rights?
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(...) Funny, my dictionary here at work (The American Heritage 3rd edition) gives this definition: Neither moral nor immoral Try dictionary.com and see what you come up with. (or should I do the legwork for you?) Tell you what, I'll mail you my (...) (23 years ago, 9-Jul-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: More LP S P A M : (was Re: Scary Survey results about the US First Amendment)
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(...) What's wrong with that? Are you advocating limits on speech rights? If you don't want your kids exposed to porn and violence - monitor what they are watching. Just because the US is a democracy doesn't mean the the individual household has to (...) (23 years ago, 9-Jul-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Did animals have rights before we invented rights?
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(...) I'm saying that I agree with Larry. Do you think I'm disagreeing? What are you looking for here? (...) (23 years ago, 9-Jul-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Lobster Bisque (was: Did animals have rights before we invented rights?)
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(...) "Meat related agricultural..." Seems a little vague to me, but I think I understand what you are getting at from the rest of the thread. You'll also have to bear with me since I am at work and am unwilling to go to either site while at work. (...) (23 years ago, 9-Jul-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Did animals have rights before we invented rights?
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(...) Interestingly, my thesaurus give these replacements for “amoral”. Unprincipled Unethical Dishonourable Unscrupulous *Immoral* Scott A (...) (23 years ago, 9-Jul-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Did animals have rights before we invented rights?
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(...) You have asked this already. I have answered it already. (...) I think we tend to group socially with those who have morals which match our own. (...) Your own values are your own. We are all individuals. (...) A great deal. (...) Yes (...) It (...) (23 years ago, 9-Jul-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | More LP S P A M : (was Re: Scary Survey results about the US First Amendment)
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When did the polling take place? What group was polled – age/sex/ethnic background? What order were the questioned asked in? Was any supplemental information given? How was the poll undertaken - telephone / face-to-face/via the web? Were any other (...) (23 years ago, 9-Jul-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Lobster Bisque (was: Did animals have rights before we invented rights?)
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(...) Perhaps it is time it was brought into the 21st century? Much of it is based on the English bill of rights which dates back to 1689. Scott A (...) (23 years ago, 9-Jul-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: What is spam? (was Re: Scary Survey results about the US First Amendment
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(...) How right you are. But pasting all this LP crap into LUGNET is one step away from pasting adds for chocalte bars or cars. There are real issue out their which are worth talking about - your selfish breed of politics is not. It often surprises (...) (23 years ago, 9-Jul-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Did animals have rights before we invented rights?
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(...) I do not think that "lack" is strong enough to suggest that. But, even if it is I still think it is negative. (...) I have. Scott A (...) (23 years ago, 9-Jul-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Did animals have rights before we invented rights?
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(...) I already have. Like I said before, read before you post. Scott A (...) (23 years ago, 9-Jul-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Did animals have rights before we invented rights?
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(...) Are you saying the dictionary larry quoted is wrong? Are you saying the one I quoted is wrong? Scott A (...) (23 years ago, 9-Jul-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Scary Survey results about the US First Amendment
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(...) Larry is right. Read on through the thread and you will see that I have indeed changed my mind. -Duane (23 years ago, 9-Jul-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Conspiracy theories: men on the moon
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In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Kirby Warden writes (in part): (...) I'll come out on this one. I love the film, Capricorn One [1]. I believe the hoax theory is plausible [2], and I even doubted the veracity of the moon landing for a few days a couple (...) (23 years ago, 9-Jul-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Conspiracy theories: little green men
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In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Daniel Jassim writes (in part): (...) Actually, I think the consprirists only believe the moon landings themselves were faked, not the space program, nor the earth orbits. They seem to believe that we have orbited the (...) (23 years ago, 9-Jul-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: on topic?
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(...) Well, I agree with the suggestion, but not for the same reason. Generally, I have no problem with threads changing subject, as long as the subject line points this out. However, as I use the web interface to post to Lugnet (most of the time), (...) (23 years ago, 9-Jul-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Conspiracy theories: men on the moon
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Here's a page that's highly biased against the hoax theory, but has links to lotsa stuff on both sides. ROSCO (...) (23 years ago, 9-Jul-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Dog in pool incident
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(...) I'm not deluded about it now. Perhaps I should say that I felt that way AT THE TIME (i.e. I thought I was teaching that jerk a lesson). I realize now as an adult that beating him up didn't somehow convince him to be a better person. More than (...) (23 years ago, 9-Jul-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Dog in pool incident
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(...) Dan, I'm all for how you handled that. 100%. But don't delude yourself. What you did settled your internal justicemeter. It tought the thug nothing about respect for animals. The best it could have possibly done was taught him that some people (...) (23 years ago, 8-Jul-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Conspiracy theories: men on the moon
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Nope, I don't do the converting thing. If someone doesn't agree with me on a topic, it doesn't disturb me in the least. However, I do enjoy being challenged, wheather I challenge myself, or find myself challenged by another force (people, (...) (23 years ago, 8-Jul-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Conspiracy theories: little green men
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i'm rather devided on the "want to believe" concept... ...the kid in me certainly thinks it a great idea to have aliens visiting Earth and leaving advanced technology... ...however, the realist in me doesn't think it would be such a hot idea to have (...) (23 years ago, 8-Jul-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Conspiracy theories: men on the moon
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(...) Well, sure! And that's a perfectly valid reason in and of itself, wasn't challenging that. Just wondering if you had something deeper in mind with the question, is all. (Some convertor used this question as an opener to try to convince me of (...) (23 years ago, 8-Jul-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Conspiracy theories: little green men
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Could the moon landings have been faked, of course. However, I believe they happened and seriously doubt there was a conspiracy regarding the matter. We know the rockets went up and we have the first hand accounts of the astronauts who rode them. (...) (23 years ago, 8-Jul-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Conspiracy theories: men on the moon
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(...) why not? aren't they debatable? (23 years ago, 8-Jul-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Conspiracy theories: men on the moon
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(...) Why ask about conspiracy theories? (23 years ago, 8-Jul-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Conspiracy theories: men on the moon
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In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Larry Pieniazek writes: <snip> (...) Ummm...why what? (23 years ago, 8-Jul-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Lobster Bisque (was: Did animals have rights before we invented rights?)
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|
(...) I think the mechanism being used so far (undercover employees reporting what they see) seems to be working fine for identifying problems. I am satisfied that this problem exists, just not as of yet clear on how endemic it is, nor clear that my (...) (23 years ago, 8-Jul-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Conspiracy theories: men on the moon
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(...) Beyond a shadow? I dunno. A shadow of doubt doesn't take much to support it. Beyond a reasonable doubt though, yes. (...) I share a trait with Dave! (see, got his name to be last in the sentence) I too will get into debates with people for no (...) (23 years ago, 8-Jul-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Conspiracy theories: men on the moon
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|
Is there anyone here who does not believe beyond a shadow of a doubt that men have indeed walked on the moon? I have spent some time in thought on this "conspiracy", and have decided, that I could never convince a skeptic that men have walked on the (...) (23 years ago, 8-Jul-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | bloody pictures
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Thank you Dan for providing the PETA link. Although the pictures and information on the site did not serve to change my cravings for beef products, it did serve to offer me a central source of information on the subject of animal cruelty and meat (...) (23 years ago, 8-Jul-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | on topic?
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the recent "debate" on animal rights/cruelty is "off-topic". The thread that this debate happens to be in, was originally about sexism in the work place. since someone kindly suggested to another that the "animal" debate should remain "on-topic", I (...) (23 years ago, 8-Jul-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | on the search for facts...
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I followed the PETA link that Dan provided. It was the first time I have ever been to the site and found it rather easy to navigate. Out of curiosity I even read an article specifically about animal abuse in rodeo. The article offered about a dozen (...) (23 years ago, 8-Jul-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Dog in pool incident
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(...) It happened when I was 16 years old. I was living in Michigan at the time and in the summer I made a trip to visit my family in California. Since my friends helped me get the pool running that summer, my mother agreed to let them swim there (...) (23 years ago, 8-Jul-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Lobster Bisque (was: Did animals have rights before we invented rights?)
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(...) I understand the motivation too, I think (who can be *sure* they understand the motivation of others?). But I cannot condone force initiation. We must exhaust the rule of law first before we get that extreme. I share your concern about farming (...) (23 years ago, 8-Jul-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Lobster Bisque (was: Did animals have rights before we invented rights?)
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(...) How do you mean 'only' Frank? I mean, you could just type an email to your senator and figure that you've done your part. That would be an alternative action. But it wouldn't do anything. You could picket in front of the place. That would be (...) (23 years ago, 8-Jul-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Lobster Bisque (was: Did animals have rights before we invented rights?)
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(...) I was trying to figure out how to say that, but I got hung up on how to actually do what you're suggesting Dan do. What about it? How would Dan, or I, substantiate claims of gross cruelty through negligence and intent? (...) Agreed. But do (...) (23 years ago, 8-Jul-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Lobster Bisque (was: Did animals have rights before we invented rights?)
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(...) I think there's a real difference between burning down a supposedly empty building (the reports I've read weren't "empty" buildings, and destroyed not just the potentially abusive research, but also research which did not use animals) and (...) (23 years ago, 8-Jul-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Lobster Bisque (was: Did animals have rights before we invented rights?)
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(...) I would assert that if you wish any success in encouraging people to change their views on the way animals are treated in this country that the onus is upon you to substantiate your claims. If the rest of us think that things are basically OK, (...) (23 years ago, 8-Jul-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Lobster Bisque (was: Did animals have rights before we invented rights?)
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(...) I don't think he was questioning the reasonability of your statement. He wanted you to cite some of the sources that you've used to come to that conclusion. Actually, I was reading the group yesterday when larry posted and went off to search (...) (23 years ago, 8-Jul-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Lobster Bisque (was: Did animals have rights before we invented rights?)
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(...) For the love of heaven, must we start a new thread as to define what a fact is? How about diatribe? Were there not enough facts given at these sites? The answers to your questions are often not right in front of you. Seek well and learn well. (...) (23 years ago, 8-Jul-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| |
| | Re: Pork chops anyone?
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|
(...) of them have cites). But they're better than the front page. (...) They appear to be hung off the media link. Not where I'd think to go first were I looking for facts. So no, in my exploring of a very busy and poorly laid out front page, I did (...) (23 years ago, 8-Jul-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Lobster Bisque (was: Did animals have rights before we invented rights?)
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(...) You assume too much. I did that already, or something close to it. Didn't like the quality of sites I found, and thought I'd just (without any aspersions being cast, which is why I just asked outright instead of prefacing it with "I already (...) (23 years ago, 8-Jul-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Lobster Bisque (was: Did animals have rights before we invented rights?)
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|
(...) What if it was an endorsement? Judge the motive before the deed. Sometimes certain causes lend themselves to extremes, so long as the innocent are not endangered. The worst fight I had in my life was when this guy threw my dog in my pool. I (...) (23 years ago, 8-Jul-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Pork chops anyone?
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(...) By all means, keep reading: (URL) you pass these up the first time around or are these reports the "rhetoric" you were talking about? Dan (23 years ago, 8-Jul-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Lobster Bisque (was: Did animals have rights before we invented rights?)
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(...) Well, perhaps I've lumped things together. It's something most of us do. On the other hand, I'm not so sure they "distance" themselves from ALF, they certainly mischaracterize the actions in this FAQ: (...) Or perhaps the not so harmless (...) (23 years ago, 8-Jul-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Lobster Bisque (was: Did animals have rights before we invented rights?)
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I wasn't born yesterday, my friend. The way I see it, Larry, you have a computer and are smart enough to research the issue of animal abuse (or lack of) for yourself. The fact that you haven't yet (and you admitted this) speaks to your lack of (...) (23 years ago, 8-Jul-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Pork chops anyone?
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|
(...) And it certainly wouldn't help the cruel treatment of other animals which aren't bred for meat. I don't have any links, but I volunteered at the RSPCA (Royal Society for Prevention of Cruelty to Animals) for several years, and have seen photos (...) (23 years ago, 8-Jul-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Slaughterhouse images
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Warning, not for the squeamish: (URL) (23 years ago, 8-Jul-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Visit to a slaughterhouse
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Warning, not for the squeamish: (URL) (23 years ago, 8-Jul-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Pork chops anyone?
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|
(...) I support investigation of this and prosecution if warranted. There are laws on our books against this sort of thing and they need to be enforced. PETA alleges this is pervasive and endemic, (which I'm not convinced they have shown, per se, (...) (23 years ago, 8-Jul-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Lobster Bisque (was: Did animals have rights before we invented rights?)
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(...) That's vandalism, which isn't quite as nonviolent a form of civil disobedience as some other ones, but it's small potatoes, I suppose. Actually hitting someone might be a bit of "assault", though. (...) I'm with you on this, Dan. Their FAQ (...) (23 years ago, 8-Jul-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Pork chops anyone?
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Warning, not for the squeamish: (URL) (23 years ago, 8-Jul-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Lobster Bisque (was: Did animals have rights before we invented rights?)
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|
(...) It's not obvious to *me*. Always looking for the disagreement, eh? I ask for some reading material because I want to have an open mind and do some research and you conclude that I disagree apriori. (...) Not interested in *countering* it. I'm (...) (23 years ago, 8-Jul-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Lobster Bisque (was: Did animals have rights before we invented rights?)
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(...) PETA does this? That's news to me! I've heard of PETA protests where people threw pies and even animal blood on employees (mainly execs if I remember correctly) of fur makers and cosmetics companies that use animals for testing. Where did you (...) (23 years ago, 8-Jul-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Lobster Bisque (was: Did animals have rights before we invented rights?)
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(...) They are one of the most extreme "animal rights" organizations. While I do feel there probably are some bad practices with animals, I don't think blowing up buildings, burning buildings, and other such destructive (and possibly endangering (...) (23 years ago, 7-Jul-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Lobster Bisque (was: Did animals have rights before we invented rights?)
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(...) Why? Just curious. Dan (23 years ago, 7-Jul-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Lobster Bisque (was: Did animals have rights before we invented rights?)
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(...) I think some crop growing methods may be suspect also. Certainly there are situations of overuse of pesticides, and monoculture growing is probably not ideal either, but there's certainly less to potentially get up in arms about. (...) (...) (23 years ago, 7-Jul-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Lobster Bisque (was: Did animals have rights before we invented rights?)
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|
>>In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Daniel Jassim writes: >> >>Seeing how horrid our agricultural practices are... (...) Then I'll rephrase it: "Seeing how horrid much of America's meat related agricultural practices are, in my opinion,..." Is that more (...) (23 years ago, 7-Jul-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Lobster Bisque (was: Did animals have rights before we invented rights?)
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|
(...) Do you have any cites for this? You've said it a few times, it may be time to take a closer look. I feel the need for a bit of reading on this topic so if you have some site cites that you feel present the case in a reasoned way, that would be (...) (23 years ago, 7-Jul-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| |
| | Re: FOTM/LOTM (Loss of the Month) Some thoughts...
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|
(...) WARNING! Compartmentalized Dork-dom ahead! ;] Larry, I'm not sure why you're so convinced this isn't a .general topic. The discussion was about general "market goings-on" for LEGO. By its "charter", lugnet.off-topic.debate is for non-LEGO (...) (23 years ago, 7-Jul-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, lugnet.admin.general)
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| | Re: Ownership
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(...) Really? I just thought it was just an extension of man's territorial nature (maybe no different than dogs pissing on trees to mark territory). (...) Yeah, at what point can it be called exploitation? I think there is such thing as collective (...) (23 years ago, 7-Jul-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Lobster Bisque (was: Did animals have rights before we invented rights?)
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Frank: Try envisioning the greater ethic behind my statement about ownership and maybe you'll appreciate it more. I think by picking it apart and making it overly technical, you've missed the greater lesson. If you want to disagree with the notion (...) (23 years ago, 7-Jul-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Lobster Bisque (was: Did animals have rights before we invented rights?)
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(...) Really? That's something I didn't know (but then again I dislike all seafood anyway so I know very little about it). Just out of curiousity, how does it make them poisonous? Is there some sort of drastic chemical change that happens when (...) (23 years ago, 7-Jul-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Scary Survey results about the US First Amendment
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(...) Keep reading. I think he came to grips with that contradiction and changed his viewpoint a bit. Very laudable! (23 years ago, 7-Jul-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Ownership (was: Lobster Bisque (was: Did animals have rights before we invented rights?))
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(...) I've been having a crisis of faith over the past several months and tried to bring it up unsuccessfully once before, but this ties into it. To get to the point, I'm having trouble justifying ownership. The entire notion of ownership actually. (...) (23 years ago, 7-Jul-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Scary Survey results about the US First Amendment
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(...) Uh Duane...it appears as if you are saying that you're glad that the first ammendment was violated by restricting the press, but you'd never want to see the press restricted. What gives? Chris (23 years ago, 7-Jul-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Lobster Bisque (was: Did animals have rights before we invented rights?)
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(...) Sure you were. Weren't you purposely neglecting to consider the source of the food? :-) Chris (23 years ago, 7-Jul-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Lobster Bisque (was: Did animals have rights before we invented rights?)
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(...) Hmm, since we've been playing with taking interpretations to extremes to see how they work out, a technique which I wholeheartedly endorse... - Can you justify your ownership of anything metal? The metal was "found". - Can you justify your (...) (23 years ago, 7-Jul-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Validity testing (was: Did animals have rights before we invented rights?)
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(...) For the sake of staying within what I consider dubious givens, I would say that it was impossible for you to acquire ownership of sentient (the real meaning, not your vernacular one) beings (cows) without excercising some kind of 'might makes (...) (23 years ago, 7-Jul-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: 3 Question (was: Did animals have rights before we invented rights?)
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(...) Don't I do this by discussing concepts of morality with you? (...) Do you mean the ability to conceive of morality and the lack there of, and different sets of morals? Or do you mean the tendency to act in a way that we consider moral? (...) (...) (23 years ago, 7-Jul-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Lobster Bisque (was: Did animals have rights before we invented rights?)
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(...) Honest question-- is this possible? I know that killing lobsters "incorrectly" makes them poisonous to eat. (...) Completely agree. However, since I don't kill my own cows, I feel quite morally distant from the act of their death-- But I (...) (23 years ago, 7-Jul-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Lobster Bisque (was: Did animals have rights before we invented rights?)
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(...) I say if you must eat them, at least kill them swiftly before tossing them in the boiling water. Why miss opportunities to be humane? It's good self discipline and shows character, in my opinion. For example, when an old and sick or dying pet (...) (23 years ago, 7-Jul-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Lobster Bisque (was: Did animals have rights before we invented rights?)
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(...) It was a combination of things. I think I've demonstrated by now that I can't help leaping into the argumentative fray, so when the opportunity presented itself to go head-to-head with an apologist of such a... litigious cul--I mean, religion, (...) (23 years ago, 7-Jul-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Lobster Bisque (was: Did animals have rights before we invented rights?)
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(...) Forget the magically appearing bus-- what I find totally amazing is that you actually spent 90 minutes with a Scientology recruiter! What did they do, bar the door shut? Maggie C. (23 years ago, 6-Jul-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Lobster Bisque (was: Did animals have rights before we invented rights?)
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(...) I'm certainly not saying Scientology is a cult. I would never say Scientology is a cult. Anyone who would say Scientology is a cult is nuts. No sir, Scientology definitely is no cult in my book. (...) Actually, while it's not high cinema, I (...) (23 years ago, 6-Jul-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Lobster Bisque (was: Did animals have rights before we invented rights?)
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(...) He'd tell you that you actualised your desire and voila, a bus. Or something like that. Warning, be very careful discussing this particular, ahem, well, whatever it is they are. I hear they have some majorly powerful lawyers and I'd rather (...) (23 years ago, 6-Jul-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Lobster Bisque (was: Did animals have rights before we invented rights?)
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(...) Gasp! You've read the super-secret extra-litigation copyrighted Operating Thetan documents? Don't you know that you can't properly appreciate those until you've been Declared Clear? You'd better take back that Undeserved and Inaccurate (...) (23 years ago, 6-Jul-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Lobster Bisque (was: Did animals have rights before we invented rights?)
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(...) Blasphemy! Who will protect us from Xenu (not The Warrior Princess) if not L. Ron? Dave! (23 years ago, 6-Jul-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Lobster Bisque (was: Did animals have rights before we invented rights?)
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(...) It was quite clearly a sign from God that Scientology is in fact stupid. DaveE (23 years ago, 6-Jul-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Lobster Bisque (was: Did animals have rights before we invented rights?)
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(...) Interestingly (or maybe not--you tell me), something analogous happened to me a few years ago during a one-on-one meeting with a Scientology "Advocate" (or whatever their brainwashers are called). Eventually I got sick of the crazy rhetoric (...) (23 years ago, 6-Jul-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Lobster Bisque (was: Did animals have rights before we invented rights?)
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Ok, I noticed something odd while mulling over the topic on my way home last night... While I admitted elsewhere that I agree to a certain degree of immorality for eating meat, but that it was negligible, I'm actually not sure that's the case-- at (...) (23 years ago, 6-Jul-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Validity testing (was: Did animals have rights before we invented rights?)
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(...) Very disappointing. You guys never insulted each other either. :-) Try to do better next time Dave! (23 years ago, 6-Jul-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Validity testing (was: Did animals have rights before we invented rights?)
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In lugnet.off-topic.debate, David Eaton writes: : (...) To-may-to, to-mah-to, I guess! The difference in our view seems to come down to this: I support a "transitional range" within which distinction is made between one state and another (be it (...) (23 years ago, 6-Jul-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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