Subject:
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Re: Did animals have rights before we invented rights?
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Newsgroups:
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lugnet.off-topic.debate
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Date:
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Mon, 9 Jul 2001 17:00:07 GMT
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Viewed:
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1049 times
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In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Scott Arthur writes:
> In lugnet.off-topic.debate, David Eaton writes:
> > So, you think that the lion's morality cannot be judged as it does not exist
> > within any moral framework? Or do you mean to say that we simply don't know
> > if that framework exists or not? If the former, I think your disagreement
> > with Larry is potentially flawed. If the latter, then your agreement with
> > Chris's initial statement is off.
>
> You have asked this already. I have answered it already.
Yes, I have asked it already, and yes, you've tried to answer it-- however,
I either did not understand your response, or I find you to be in error for
ever disagreeing with Larry about the issue. So, either please clarify by
answering the above (don't just copy/paste-- I've phrased the above
differently so as to potentially understand your response better) or admit
that you were too quick to discount Larry's assessment of your own position.
> > So judging people is "more ok" when judging those you know well? I.E. family
> > and friends vs. strangers? Against what moral standard should they be judged?
>
> I think we tend to group socially with those who have morals which match our
> own.
So the reason it's "more ok" to judge family/friends is because your moral
codes are likely to be very similar? Hence, you're agreeing with me that
*IF* you *COULD* judge someone by *THEIR* *OWN* moral code, you'd be correct
to do so?
> > > > If so, what place is it of yours to tell me to keep my moral judgements to
> > > > myself? Is it not "wrong" of you (incorrect, not immoral-- unless you
> > > > *mean* immoral) to place such a judgement?
> > >
> > > I am not say you should keep you moral judgements to yourself, I am saying
> > > you should not judge others based on your own morals.
> >
> > I should not judge others based on my own morals? Why not?
>
> Your own values are your own. We are all individuals.
You failed to answer the question. The question is what is the CONSEQUENCE
of judging others based on your own morality? Are you morally wrong to do
so? Are you conceited? Are you incorrect? Or so you simply have the
potential to be incorrect? Or the potential to be conceited and/or wrong?
What happens if I judge you according to my own morality? For what reasons
should I not do it? What's my motivation for not doing so?
> > #1: What is the necessary difference between individual morality and
> > societal morality?
>
> A great deal.
Really? I don't think there's any *necessary* difference whatsoever,
excepting that it's emergence is from multiple individual moral codes. The
end product of a social morality (I hold) has the potential to be as correct
or flawed as an individual morality. Besides, you again didn't answer the
question. I asked "what" not "how many".
> > I don't think so. For instance, I can moralize on you and say something you
> > did is immoral. However, because of my particular beliefs, my assessment is
> > based on my perception of your own moral code. And as such, I allow myself
> > to be wrong, hence "cancelling out" conceit as far as I'm concerned.
> > Basically, the more you're willing to admit you're wrong, the less conceited
> > you are. If I *insist* that you're immoral, that's conceited. If I *think*
> > you're immoral, I'm not conceited. Or perhaps merely not *so* conceited.
>
> It sounds like you are now agreeing with my criticism of Larry?
Which criticism is that? You have so many :)
> > So we *can* pass judgement on societies, but we're conceited for doing so,
> > just like when passing judegement on others, yes?
>
> We may well be conceited. I am sure those who we dictate feel we are.
We *may* be conceited for doing so? So there's a chance we aren't, and a
chance we are, yes? What are the factors? What's the difference between
someone who's conceited in this regard and someone who's not? Is it as I
said above, to which you suggested that we were agreeing?
DaveE
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