Subject:
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Re: Did animals have rights before we invented rights?
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Newsgroups:
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lugnet.off-topic.debate
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Date:
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Mon, 9 Jul 2001 17:11:24 GMT
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Viewed:
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1308 times
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In lugnet.off-topic.debate, David Eaton writes:
> In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Scott Arthur writes:
> > In lugnet.off-topic.debate, David Eaton writes:
> > > So, you think that the lion's morality cannot be judged as it does not exist
> > > within any moral framework? Or do you mean to say that we simply don't know
> > > if that framework exists or not? If the former, I think your disagreement
> > > with Larry is potentially flawed. If the latter, then your agreement with
> > > Chris's initial statement is off.
> >
> > You have asked this already. I have answered it already.
>
> Yes, I have asked it already, and yes, you've tried to answer it-- however,
> I either did not understand your response, or I find you to be in error for
> ever disagreeing with Larry about the issue. So, either please clarify by
> answering the above (don't just copy/paste-- I've phrased the above
> differently so as to potentially understand your response better) or admit
> that you were too quick to discount Larry's assessment of your own position.
I think we should not compare our morals with the lion’s decision making
process.
>
> > > So judging people is "more ok" when judging those you know well? I.E. family
> > > and friends vs. strangers? Against what moral standard should they be judged?
> >
> > I think we tend to group socially with those who have morals which match our
> > own.
>
> So the reason it's "more ok" to judge family/friends is because your moral
> codes are likely to be very similar?
i think "judge" is rather strong a word.
> Hence, you're agreeing with me that
> *IF* you *COULD* judge someone by *THEIR* *OWN* moral code, you'd be correct
> to do so?
If they wanted you to - yes.
>
> > > > > If so, what place is it of yours to tell me to keep my moral judgements to
> > > > > myself? Is it not "wrong" of you (incorrect, not immoral-- unless you
> > > > > *mean* immoral) to place such a judgement?
> > > >
> > > > I am not say you should keep you moral judgements to yourself, I am saying
> > > > you should not judge others based on your own morals.
> > >
> > > I should not judge others based on my own morals? Why not?
> >
> > Your own values are your own. We are all individuals.
>
> You failed to answer the question. The question is what is the CONSEQUENCE
> of judging others based on your own morality?
The consequence is that it annoys them.
> Are you morally wrong to do
> so? Are you conceited? Are you incorrect? Or so you simply have the
> potential to be incorrect? Or the potential to be conceited and/or wrong?
> What happens if I judge you according to my own morality? For what reasons
> should I not do it? What's my motivation for not doing so?
Why do you neet motivation for *not* doing somthing?
>
> > > #1: What is the necessary difference between individual morality and
> > > societal morality?
> >
> > A great deal.
>
> Really? I don't think there's any *necessary* difference whatsoever,
> excepting that it's emergence is from multiple individual moral codes.
There is not necessary a difference, but I expect there will be one.
> The
> end product of a social morality (I hold) has the potential to be as correct
> or flawed as an individual morality. Besides, you again didn't answer the
> question. I asked "what" not "how many".
Do you want a list?
>
> > > I don't think so. For instance, I can moralize on you and say something you
> > > did is immoral. However, because of my particular beliefs, my assessment is
> > > based on my perception of your own moral code. And as such, I allow myself
> > > to be wrong, hence "cancelling out" conceit as far as I'm concerned.
> > > Basically, the more you're willing to admit you're wrong, the less conceited
> > > you are. If I *insist* that you're immoral, that's conceited. If I *think*
> > > you're immoral, I'm not conceited. Or perhaps merely not *so* conceited.
> >
> > It sounds like you are now agreeing with my criticism of Larry?
>
> Which criticism is that? You have so many :)
Perhaps the one which started this?
>
> > > So we *can* pass judgement on societies, but we're conceited for doing so,
> > > just like when passing judegement on others, yes?
> >
> > We may well be conceited. I am sure those who we dictate feel we are.
>
> We *may* be conceited for doing so?
It is a term of phrase - I am agreeing with you.
Scott A
> So there's a chance we aren't, and a
> chance we are, yes? What are the factors? What's the difference between
> someone who's conceited in this regard and someone who's not? Is it as I
> said above, to which you suggested that we were agreeing?
>
> DaveE
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