 | | Re: It's All About Control (was: Re: Possession)
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(...) I don't think I mentioned the gov't takig over the entertainment industry--I was talking about people getting paid what they're worth, or what their product is worth. Paying Arnold 20 mil to star in a movie that makes 15 mil in total isn't the (...) (21 years ago, 24-Jun-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: It's All About Control (was: Re: Possession)
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(...) The free market only works between natural persons, once you allow fictitious persons (i.e. deathless corporations) into the marketplace you have killed freedom of trade and replaced it with the heavy gravity of monopolistic leviathans with (...) (21 years ago, 24-Jun-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | It's All About Control (was: Re: Possession)
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(...) Here is a great example of some profound fundamental differences between the Right and Left. Anytime you talk of "implementing" something, what you really mean is for the government to take it over and control it. That in my mind is not the (...) (21 years ago, 24-Jun-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: Possession
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(...) The problem with that is the "creative" accounting the studios use to show that movies don't actually make money. Spider-Man grossed over $400 million and yet the studio told Stan Lee that it barely broke even. (URL) Many things have to (...) (21 years ago, 24-Jun-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: Possession
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(...) Yeah, elsewhere in this thread I mentioned the same thing. If one considers the elmination of the middlemen publishers/distributors then the creator reaps the ENTIRE reward of what is being offered by the Library. Let's say an artist creates a (...) (21 years ago, 24-Jun-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: Possession
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(...) I would like to see a revolution in the entire entertainment field based on something like this. Instead of paying an actor 20 mil to make a picture, pay the actor(s) based on the revenue that the motion picture makes (a la Nicolson in (...) (21 years ago, 24-Jun-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: Possession
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(...) Well, there's even more to it than that. Whether retail outlet or library, real world buildings as stores of information provide jobs for a whole plethora of other people: salesclerks, maintenance persons, cashiers, librarians, contractors, (...) (21 years ago, 22-Jun-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: Possession
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"Christopher Weeks" <clweeks@eclipse.net> wrote in message news:HGvwK1.wIv@lugnet.com... (...) library (...) media to (...) charge (...) licensed (...) case. (...) were (...) and into (...) not (...) could (...) user) (...) works (...) would (...) (...) (21 years ago, 22-Jun-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Possession
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(...) Do IP rights have to be bought the way they are now? The reason this library idea is very cool is because it follows the law of today, yet gets more media to more people...right? Why not just set up this giant media database but charge (...) (21 years ago, 22-Jun-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: Possession
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(...) No argument there, it was just an example of wealth from someone whose supposed career is making music. Her real career is more truthfully hypnotizing youth culture with her boobs so that they buy into a fake Barbie & Ken music fantasy of (...) (21 years ago, 22-Jun-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: Possession
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"richard marchetti" <blueofnoon@aol.com> wrote in message news:HGuL5F.1xox@lugnet.com... (...) defeat fair (...) there is (...) I say DRM is bad because I just can't imagine a form of DRM that doesn't expand outwards away from the purposes outlined (...) (21 years ago, 21-Jun-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Possession
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Tom: I found much of your post deeply interesting and thought provoking. Your idea of the giant archive/database is truly compelling and shows the enormous flaw in the many schemes that publishers are pursuing. Sure, the publishers are pursuing the (...) (21 years ago, 21-Jun-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: Swift was Right! (He just named the wrong people...)
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(...) Hmmmmm, is it morbid just to like a big kaboom? I like the kaboom of fireworks. Admittedly, .22 are a simple crack, a 9mil is more of a bang, and you have to get into something bigger than that to even rate a boom much less a kaboom! But yes, (...) (21 years ago, 21-Jun-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: Swift was Right! (He just named the wrong people...)
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Why would we say that? At least a few, if not many, US states have SHALL issue laws for CCW permits. Including my new home state, FL. File for a permit, pass a test, and they can't deny you the permit if you are not a felon or mentally unbalanced. (...) (21 years ago, 21-Jun-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Yahoo Sucks
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(...) No, I have read the ToS, twice, and I am sure it is not a violation. And I was sure the point of the internet was to connect all web pages anywhere in the world, and not to discourage doing so. (...) Freedom of speech. (...) What do I do? Go (...) (21 years ago, 20-Jun-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Issues with Yahoo
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(...) You know what, I am sorry about what I wrote. I was just really angry at the time, and I would usually never write it in a Lugnet post, or anywhere for that matter. (...) Before or after the Yahoo takeover? I've heard Geocities went downhill (...) (21 years ago, 20-Jun-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: I don't know, I just thought it was funny (and vaguely debatable..)
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(...) I was listening to the DJ on Q107 this morning... He was joking around and told a few 'newfie' jokes. Then a song, then he comes back laughing... "Just got an e-mail from someone who didn't want his name mentioned. The e-mail goes on to say (...) (21 years ago, 20-Jun-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Yahoo Sucks
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"David Koudys" <dkoudys@redeemer.on.ca> wrote in message news:HGs841.9Fu@lugnet.com... (...) having (...) to do (...) part (...) web (...) LOL... "you suggest I look at something else..." Well, yeah!!! ;) Nah, see the real problem is that I didn't (...) (21 years ago, 20-Jun-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Yahoo Sucks
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"richard marchetti" <blueofnoon@aol.com> wrote in message news:HGsF9B.1CsM@lugnet.com... (...) nightmare of (...) you (...) some (...) Icann (...) No they certainly are not clean uninstalls! I never could get rid of the browser bar. Every time I (...) (21 years ago, 20-Jun-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Yahoo Sucks
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"Scott Costello" <scottcos@spamfree.yahoo.com> wrote in message news:HGsJD5.1yGJ@lugnet.com... (...) what (...) You know, that's an interesting point. I should look at the Mac installation instructions more often for things like that... It's kind (...) (21 years ago, 20-Jun-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: I don't know, I just thought it was funny (and vaguely debatable..)
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"David Koudys" <dkoudys@redeemer.on.ca> wrote in message news:HGsCoH.zI3@lugnet.com... (...) on (...) I'd like to counter that with "Evil will always triumph over Good because Good is Dumb." -- Dark Helmet, "Space Balls" (21 years ago, 20-Jun-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Swift was Right! (He just named the wrong people...)
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(...) A very interesting link - thank you, Richard. I shall use it for future reference. After some really superficial reading, I can now at least pretend to know why the term "common law" is so... uncommon to me: according to one of the earlier (...) (21 years ago, 20-Jun-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: Swift was Right! (He just named the wrong people...)
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(...) So children living there are responsible for their parents choice of having a job there? If a little girl gets a fractured leg and her parents are poor, does this mean she is responsible and that she deserves not to be treated for her injuries (...) (21 years ago, 20-Jun-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Swift was Right! (He just named the wrong people...)
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(...) Well yes it did. Look at the thread going on. Added something to the debate? You bet ! As for your comments, I won't even answer them. I guess you are better suited than me to know what is a cheap shot. I stand by what I said : your comment (...) (21 years ago, 20-Jun-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Yahoo Sucks
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(...) I wasn't involved in the setup, I know the answer was found in the Mac installation section. If anyone is interested email me and I will find out what we did. Scott C. (21 years ago, 20-Jun-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Yahoo Sucks
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Once you have your initial screenname, pass, etc. you never need to install their junk again, the problem is getting the initial information. I dunno, our customer service person refused to provide us with or create such information in another (...) (21 years ago, 20-Jun-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Must See NY Times Advert
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Antiwar groups turn their focus to Bush (URL) ''One president said I did not have sex with that woman' and he got impeached,'' said Representative Jose E. Serrano, Democrat of New York. ''Another president lied to the American people, to Congress, (...) (21 years ago, 20-Jun-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: Yahoo Sucks
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Agree with all that, but let me warn you MSN is worse. We signed up with the SBC Yahoo DSL service here at the office, but we were able to use a router and some creativity to sneak around having to install all their extra garbage. Scott C. (21 years ago, 20-Jun-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Possession
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(...) Gonna answer Tom later in the day, but for now I wanted to point out the first DVD I have ever seen advertised for the film in question as seen here: (URL) And yes, I already bought one. Hopefully, it's not just another scam despite that fact (...) (21 years ago, 20-Jun-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: Yahoo Sucks
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Wow! Truer words were never posted. It was like one long horrible nightmare of software I didn't want or need just to sign on for the first time, just as you have written. And the uninstalls are not too clean no matter what. I ran some anti-virus (...) (21 years ago, 20-Jun-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | I don't know, I just thought it was funny (and vaguely debatable..)
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"The rain it raineth on the just And also on the unjust fella, But chiefly on the just, because The unjust steals the just's umbrella." Just a quotation I saw on another website. Dave K (21 years ago, 20-Jun-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Orrin Hatch: Software Pirate?
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(...) Arrrrr, but where would we be wi'out Robert Newton's scenery-chewin' iconic pyrate performance, ya swab! Pronouncin' our Rs as Hs like some dandified lubber, 'stead of pronouncing 'em so far back in our throats that we near swallow 'em, that's (...) (21 years ago, 20-Jun-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: Swift was Right! (He just named the wrong people...)
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(...) Sorry, you haven't refuted much of anything in this debate, you can't just dismiss Jefferson as irrelevant and consider that a refutation. In essence, that's what you're doing. (21 years ago, 20-Jun-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: Yahoo Sucks
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(...) Really? I went with the local cable company's cable modem, and besides having DHCP running (it was from all my years of LAN network games) I didn't have to do a thing to my PC. Plug it in, and et voila! Internet at high speed. Oh, and with (...) (21 years ago, 20-Jun-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Swift was Right! (He just named the wrong people...)
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(...) You da man!!! (21 years ago, 20-Jun-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Swift was Right! (He just named the wrong people...)
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In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Larry Pieniazek wrote: <snip> (...) Sorry Larry, I 'm calling you on this one. All points thrown at me, acknowledged and refuted, as far as I can see, and went beyond. And yet the points I made were ignored, dismissed (...) (21 years ago, 20-Jun-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Not so secret vices Was Re: Secret Vices (was Re: Swift was Right!)
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In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Richard Marchetti wrote: <snip> (...) Ooops, ftx fomratted! For me -Commodore products, 'specially the 64 -Sailor Moon and Utena -Babylon 5 -Karen McDougall -watching Clooney in "Oh Brother..." -pre "ILM" sci fi movies (...) (21 years ago, 20-Jun-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Not so secret vices Was Re: Secret Vices (was Re: Swift was Right!)
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In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Richard Marchetti wrote: <snip> (...) For me -Commodore products, 'specially the 64 -Sailor Moon and Utena -Babylon 5 -Karen McDougall -watching Clooney in "Oh Brother..." -pre "ILM" sci fi movies like "The Day the Earth (...) (21 years ago, 20-Jun-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: Possession
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"richard marchetti" <blueofnoon@aol.com> wrote in message news:HGrsA7.BA2@lugnet.com... (...) animated (...) own it (...) friend (...) seeing as (...) the (...) A fascinating case. Personally, I say you own it since you payed money for it, but I (...) (21 years ago, 20-Jun-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Orrin Hatch: Software Pirate?
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"richard marchetti" <blueofnoon@aol.com> wrote in message news:HGrJ2o.1H9o@lugnet.com... (...) the (...) at (...) things (...) of (...) has (...) ordinary (...) exclusive (...) I read an interesting slashdot article not too long ago about a (...) (21 years ago, 20-Jun-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Yahoo Sucks
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"Larry Pieniazek" <lpieniazek@mercator.com> wrote in message news:HGr3ML.1r2s@lugnet.com... (...) are (...) and (...) I absolutely despise yahoo, but for even more reasons. My family has sbc-yahoo dsl. To start, it requires that you have a 300 MHz (...) (21 years ago, 20-Jun-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Jurisdiction and Hypocrisy
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Belgium Gets War Crimes Cases Against Bush/Blair (URL) BRUSSELS - Belgium said on Thursday it had received lawsuits against President Bush and British Prime Minister Tony Blair under a controversial war crimes law. But it said it had forwarded the (...) (21 years ago, 20-Jun-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Will they do the right thing and follow through?
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Senate Panel Passes Bill to Overrule FCC Media Ownership Rules (URL) The questions remain: What was Powell Jr. trying to do and what was his motivation? -- Hop-Frog (21 years ago, 20-Jun-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: Swift was Right! (He just named the wrong people...)
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(...) More on defining the term "common law," see: (URL) Hours of reading would result from following the various links. Probably worth it too! -- Hop-Frog (21 years ago, 20-Jun-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Possession
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Hey Y'all: I have some scenarios for you... I just bought a VHS tape on eBay of "Neo-Tokyo" (a compilation of 3 animated shorts). Now it looks as if the seller is MIA and me with no tape. Do I own it already, or not until I specifically take (...) (21 years ago, 20-Jun-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: Orrin Hatch: Software Pirate?
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(...) What's not to understand? He's a politician, right? Ergo, he's for sale. And yes, my conclusion is a gross generalization that tends to be true, IMNSHO. -- Hop-Frog (21 years ago, 20-Jun-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: Orrin Hatch: Software Pirate?
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(...) What really has me confused about this whole thing is that Orrin Hatch a year ago called for a more flexible interpretation of the whole music copywrite laws so that file sharing would be allowed. I don't understand his flip-flop, and I (...) (21 years ago, 20-Jun-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: Yahoo Sucks
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(...) Is that against their ToS? It sounds like you believe that it actually is. (...) What 1st amendment rights are you referring to in this context? (...) Is this in accordance with their documented process? (...) Lost forever? You have no backups (...) (21 years ago, 20-Jun-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Issues with Yahoo
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(...) Check the LUGNET Terms of Service.... ((URL) ) specifically point 5 of discussion group terms and conditions... (...) Nope. (...) Nope. (...) Wrong again. Check your assumptions. (21 years ago, 20-Jun-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Orrin Hatch: Software Pirate?
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Orrin Hatch: Software Pirate? (URL) Sen. Orrin Hatch (R-Utah) suggested Tuesday that people who download copyright materials from the Internet should have their computers automatically destroyed. But Hatch himself is using unlicensed software on his (...) (21 years ago, 20-Jun-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: Swift was Right! (He just named the wrong people...)
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(...) No there aren't. Canada, Britian, and Austrailia all have civilians with "hunting" guns. While those are not as effective for combat, they are still useable in that fashion. Throughout history there is no such thing as a democracy where only (...) (21 years ago, 20-Jun-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Swift was Right! (He just named the wrong people...)
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(...) I think I will agree with Lar+ here. -but, I don't think we (Dave and myself) are going to convert any of you...you percive a need to have a security blanket, that we feel is unneeded, and unwarrented. As long as we are free to talk about it, (...) (21 years ago, 20-Jun-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: Yahoo Sucks
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(...) If you care, just today Yahoo deleted my e-mail and Geocities account and web page, for no apparant reason. They claim I have violated their TOS, but I am certain I have not. Unless they refer to the fact that on my links page, I have placed (...) (21 years ago, 20-Jun-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: Yahoo Sucks
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(...) What the hell is this, a Yahoo PR statement? Looks like the same crap I get when I make a comment to Yahoo about themselves. You work for Yahoo or something? You obviously have never had a site, free or not, hosted by Geocities. (21 years ago, 19-Jun-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: Yahoo Sucks
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(...) I disagree. I do not hate Yahoo. I admire them. Customer support costs money, and it costs a LOT of money to do well. That they can give you any at all for a free to you service, for an advertiser supported service, and still make money is (...) (21 years ago, 19-Jun-03, to lugnet.off-topic.geek, lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Secret Vices (was Re: Swift was Right!)
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(...) In an attempt to take this thread about Koreans eating their own kind into an even weirder direction, I present y'all with some of my secret vices and guilty pleasures: 00. Anything choreographed by Bob Fosse -- The Aloof! 01. Almost anything (...) (21 years ago, 19-Jun-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: Swift was Right! (He just named the wrong people...)
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(...) Who's the very best???? I ask you, who? You know I am! There is no one better than I am at ending a sentence with Dave! No one! (21 years ago, 19-Jun-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Swift was Right! (He just named the wrong people...)
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(...) Humanity, yes. Most people are good and kind and honest and want only to live their lives unmolested, living by the golden rule or by the wiccan rule or by libertarian principles (even if they can't articulate any of them clearly, that's still (...) (21 years ago, 19-Jun-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: Swift was Right! (He just named the wrong people...)
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(...) Point ceded. (...) Hey, it had to happen eventually. Nice use of Dave! with the parentheses, by the way. Dave! (21 years ago, 19-Jun-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Swift was Right! (He just named the wrong people...)
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(...) How many virtual Timmies can dance on the head of a pin... (since you asked) (snip the rest because... well, because you're right, darn it, Dave!) (21 years ago, 19-Jun-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Swift was Right! (He just named the wrong people...)
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(...) Sure, it's been discussed, but what hasn't been discussed? And it's not like the entire argument is stagnant, either; my opinion has evolved somewhat through several revisitings of the gun control debate, just as others have come to understand (...) (21 years ago, 19-Jun-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Swift was Right! (He just named the wrong people...)
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In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Richard Marchetti wrote: <snip for comedic effect> (...) lol, I quickly scanned that first sentence and came up with something entirely different;-) JOHN (21 years ago, 19-Jun-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: Swift was Right! (He just named the wrong people...)
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(...) Okay, let me get this straight -- you are angry that I have patience that these things will work themselves out peacefully and without the need for violence and revolution? So what you are arguing is that I can only be pro-gun if I happen to (...) (21 years ago, 19-Jun-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: Swift was Right! (He just named the wrong people...)
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(...) My doubts are on record--the guys policies are morinic at best and he should be booted out of office. Once all the 'facts' are exposed, you will see "Iraqi-gate" for what it is--a fiasco right from the start--botched intelligence, (...) (21 years ago, 19-Jun-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: Swift was Right! (He just named the wrong people...)
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(...) You are very correct that my anecedotal examples might not always be the best. You are also correct that this bum was not a threat, he actually was pretty nice, giving me directions after I tossed him some coins (although with my ignorance of (...) (21 years ago, 19-Jun-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Swift was Right! (He just named the wrong people...)
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(...) Okay, and I am "delusional" because I trust in the wisdom of Thomas Jefferson and the whole of the Founding Fathers of my country? Who knew?! Do you know what the word "delusional means? It can be defined as: a false belief strongly held in (...) (21 years ago, 19-Jun-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: Swift was Right! (He just named the wrong people...)
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(...) So do I, as whole. I'm talking about Shrub -- a guy that has the whole world on the edge of it's collective seat. Who'll be next in our drive towards empire? Who's going to be preemptively nuked? I'm supposed to think that world is a great (...) (21 years ago, 19-Jun-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: Swift was Right! (He just named the wrong people...)
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(...) Not really--you can't debate with someone who is not willing to listen, or at worst, delusional. So on this particular debate, we're done. (...) And your gun in your house will prevent that how? But brought up again and not dealt with. (...) (21 years ago, 19-Jun-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: Swift was Right! (He just named the wrong people...)
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(...) And yet I'm the one attributed to the guy with the beard with the sign 'the end is near'. I'm not the one that has to get over myself. I'm not the one who doesn't understand society at large. Narrow minded people who justify their irrational (...) (21 years ago, 19-Jun-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: Swift was Right! (He just named the wrong people...)
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(...) Hmmm, in the main I hope to raise questions -- not assert "truths" that I admittedly don't have real evidence of from my particular vantage point. I don't have truths, I have anecdotes -- but I do think it's closer to truth than what is (...) (21 years ago, 19-Jun-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: Swift was Right! (He just named the wrong people...)
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(...) Gee -- that's pretty offensive to me. Run out of ideas for arguments or something, Kooties? Too bad we can't propel ourselves 100 years into the future and see how the U.S. is turning out under the rule of near despots with the collective (...) (21 years ago, 19-Jun-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: Swift was Right! (He just named the wrong people...)
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(...) "Koresh wannabe" ??? Oh, get over yourself. Koresh was innocent of anything except bad judgement in thinking that he and his followers could peaceably coexist in the local community, and bad judgement in thinking that because he had good (...) (21 years ago, 19-Jun-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: Swift was Right! (He just named the wrong people...)
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(...) Wonderful solution, and I can tell you have no idea what you are talking about. Do you know how hard it is to fight the power? I have done it, and won some and lost most. Not fun, not at all. I'd provide more details but actually it's my own (...) (21 years ago, 19-Jun-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Richard Marchetti wrote: <snip> (...) There it is. Koresh wannabe. We're done. Dave K (21 years ago, 19-Jun-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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(...) Gee, condescend much? I have no problem if you want to stick your head out and place it neatly on the chopping block of history, just don't ask me to do the same thing. That's really the crux of the problem: you have your opinion and I have my (...) (21 years ago, 19-Jun-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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(...) You know, appealing to ideas in a Jeffersonian mold is an appeal to authority, and as perhaps "THEE" central philosophical figure of the foundations of my country, I consider Jefferson an authority whose wisdom is not easily overcome -- and (...) (21 years ago, 19-Jun-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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(...) Did those "right to bear arms" people decide to do what you think you would, and use those arms? no, they didn't. Therefore, the arms were irrelevant at best. (...) You take them to court. You take them to the highest court you can. There have (...) (21 years ago, 19-Jun-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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(...) I don't live "without freedom" or in a "tinpot dictatorship". Get over yourself. Face the facts--there are *democracies* that work without the citizens being armed. And yet you can't deal with that one. You;re doing an end-run around the (...) (21 years ago, 19-Jun-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Scott Costello wrote: I don't have a real problem with your overall assertion, but you attempt a few points that really don't benefit your argument: (...) You're suggesting that your wife should have brandished her (...) (21 years ago, 19-Jun-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) That reasoning isn't entirely sound, and it omits relevant factors. If there are fifty deaths-by-hammer, then we need to ascertain how many hammers were involved. If one guy went on a hammering spree with one ball-peen, then the elimination of (...) (21 years ago, 19-Jun-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) We're not? Are you sure about that? I'm not. (21 years ago, 19-Jun-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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(...) Did you even read my post? The gun owners were the first group of Jews rounded up for precisely that reason. (...) Words on paper (laws) protect me less than the police do. Police do not stop crime over 99 percent of the time. They simply (...) (21 years ago, 19-Jun-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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(...) Now come on. Pay attention. (URL) (...) Please get your facts straight. In tin-pot dictator type countries only the government and police have guns. That is why they can oppress and enslave their people. (...) Exactly we have guns too. (...) (...) (21 years ago, 19-Jun-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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(...) I was looking for a spot to jump in to this debate too, and I don't know if this is it, but what the heck I will butt in anyway. I know and understand the Jeffersonian arguement that citizens need to be armed against an oppressive government, (...) (21 years ago, 19-Jun-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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(...) No, by definition a criminal is exactly that. However, see the hammer argument, and the fact that the majority of murders are committed by people who KNOW each other. And Alcohol is often a factor...it's harder to kill someone with a set of (...) (21 years ago, 19-Jun-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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(...) Again with the "Jeffersonian" speak. I would point out that Jefferson livd 200+ years ago and some of the ideas from that time may not be valid today. Again (and again and again) it is your national forces that's protecting your 'freedom and (...) (21 years ago, 19-Jun-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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(...) Protection through deterrence. Ask any criminal whom they would rather robb-- an armed person or an unarmed person. Of course it's true that guns can be lethal-- that is precisely why they are effective deterrents. (...) You are assuming that (...) (21 years ago, 19-Jun-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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Okay, fine -- if your point is that the purpose of a gun is to kill or destroy a thing, then that's basically an undisputed fact. That it is the only utility of the gun is a separate matter. I still think that the gun's power for destruction is the (...) (21 years ago, 19-Jun-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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(...) Peace without freedom is oppression and/or slavery for "the good of society." (...) Except that most of the Black Market guns come from overseas smuggling, not domestic theft. It is cheaper, easier, and safer on a large scale. -Mike Petrucelli (21 years ago, 19-Jun-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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(...) You're right, I should know to phrase things better. All of the data I have seen everywhere (save the occasional pro-gun loony website that shows a positive benefit to greater availability of guns) shows there is no correlation between the (...) (21 years ago, 19-Jun-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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(...) Well, besides being logical and such, there would be less deaths by hammers if there were less hammers. Just as, as John points out, there would be less deaths by cars if there were less cars. Do I need a study to show me the infallible logic (...) (21 years ago, 19-Jun-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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(...) Maybe I just haven't seen the right studies or something, but you have no real proof or data to support that statement, do you? It's just fuzzy anti-gun speak that doesn't deal with actual issues but with imagined public safety protections. I (...) (21 years ago, 19-Jun-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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(...) Lets look at homicides due to guns in each situation, shall we? Because you saw something somewhere and the 'whole arguement is completely invalid'? Mike, you're better than that. Dave K (21 years ago, 19-Jun-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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(...) Reading comprehension 101--the purpose of a car is not to cause any harm. The purpose of a gun is. If you want to weigh in on *accidental* deaths of automobiles, then we're off on a differnt topic. Shooting someone with a gun is not an (...) (21 years ago, 19-Jun-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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This is a kind of digression, I think...this thread seems to be going all over the place. =) (...) Which provides support for the idea of socialized medicine, because if the health services needed to recover from an injury are free they cannot be (...) (21 years ago, 19-Jun-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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(...) You ask *any* politician--"Hey Mr. 'We voted you in', do you worry that when you make bad decisions in office you will probably get shot *because of* your bad decisions?" I think Mr Politician is more worried about his walking around in (...) (21 years ago, 19-Jun-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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(...) You might want to double check that number, because it would mean that the murder rate increased since the UK imposed tight gun control laws. Not exactly supportive of your argument. Basiclly all of the data I have seen shows there is no (...) (21 years ago, 19-Jun-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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(...) Yes, autos do cause far more deaths than guns. However, they seem to have far more use too. (...) "just mind your own business". Please do so...and stop insiuating that you can stop something that you are unlikely to ever be a part of. (armed (...) (21 years ago, 18-Jun-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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(...) Do you honestly beleive that a criminal is using a registered gun in the first place? By the way, just a little history for you: Registered gun oweners were the first group of Jews rounded up by the Nazis. By the time they realized what was (...) (21 years ago, 18-Jun-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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(...) Yes. Protection. Why do you give an example of an unintended use of a gun? By that reasoning we should ban driving due to all of the auto related fatalities (far more BTW than deaths by handguns...) (...) By the same token, gun manufacturers (...) (21 years ago, 18-Jun-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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