Subject:
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Re: Swift was Right! (He just named the wrong people...)
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Newsgroups:
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lugnet.off-topic.debate
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Date:
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Wed, 18 Jun 2003 21:40:58 GMT
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Viewed:
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2405 times
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In lugnet.off-topic.debate, David Koudys wrote:
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In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Richard Marchetti wrote:
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In lugnet.off-topic.debate, David Koudys wrote:
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What it does do is reduce the number of fatalities/injuries from bullets.
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Lots of things can kill you -- like automobiles for example. We keep
dangerous things around because they are useful -- like automobiles for
example. People can be taught to use dangerous yet useful things without
harm to anyone, or at least with greatly reduced risk to others -- like
automobiles for example.
How is a gun any different?
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What’s the purpose of a car--to get me to my job, to get me home, to wash on
Saturday and watch it rained upon on Sunday. What’s the purpose of a knife?
To open boxes, cut my food, chop the cabbage I threw into my crock pot
yesterday. What’s the primary purpose of a bat? To hollow out and put cork
in it, to hit a little ball out of a park, to beat my carpet and get the
dust/dirt out of it. What’s the primary function of wsooden chopsticks--to eat
east Asian food, to build log cabins whilst waiting for the food to arrive.
What’s the purpose of a gun? What’s the *primary* purpose of a gun? What’s
the intent of the gun owner when he’s weilding a gun. What is it? To look
good? My uncle has a musket from our little war b/w our two countirs
displayed on his mantle. So yeah, I guess a purpose of a gun is to look
good. However, I rather doub that my uncles gun could be used to shoot
someone (considering it’s been rendered inoperative after sitting under the
water that long, as well as the fact that it has concrete in the barrel.)
Protection? Tell that to the neighbour who just had his wife shot by the gun
stolen out of your house. Oh wait, then we’re back to the primary function
of a gun, and that is to *shoot* something--target, animal, person.
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Yes. Protection. Why do you give an example of an unintended use of a gun? By
that reasoning we should ban driving due to all of the auto related fatalities
(far more BTW than deaths by handguns...)
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Stop with the “Well axes kill.” It’s not germaine. It’s a straw man, it’s
whatever you want to call it--an axe is used to hew wood, cut rope,
whataveyou. Axe manufacturers aren’t thinking that, “hey, we’re making these
axes to cause bodily harm on people”. Guns, well, that’s their *intended*
use.
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By the same token, gun manufacturers aren’t thinking that, “hey we’re making
these guns but somebody might steal one and use it to cause bodily harm on
people.” The intended use is deterrent. Protection. Nobody wants to kill
anyone. Just mind your own business and things will be fine.
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You might argue that the apparent utility of the gun does not compensate
sufficiently for it’s supposed danger to others -- but that’s about all you
can say about it. We would rate it’s utility differently -- and that is the
crux of the disagreement. You cannot imagine a use for a gun that outweighs
its risk to others. I believe that the mere presence of guns in the hands
of the many keeps fascism and totalitarianism at bay, while at the same time
protecting people in their homes.
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God help me, I’m siding with Hop-Frog! :-/ ;-)
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I don’t have to try to imagine utility of a gun outweighing the danger--it
doesn’t exist. In not one instance does the utility outweigh the danger.
Specific examples “Hey, I shot that guy before he shot my wife!” But if the
guy didn’t have a gun in the first place... that’s all I’m saying.
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This is reality, Dave. There will always be guns no matter how hard you try to
destroy them all.
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As long as you cannot guarantee that the gun will stay in law abiding hands,
then all guns outta the pool.
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Again, your wish is pure fantasy. All your efforts to control guns will only
result in the disarming of law-abiding citizens, that’s it!
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Freed slaves learned quickly that freemen beared arms. While it is said
that many slaves lived good lives as slaves, let’s not forget that putting a
slave to the whip or selling off his/her loved ones was not an uncommon
practice. How could such a thing happen? Because we allowed the existence
of a class of persons for whom civil liberties did not exist. When they
were freed, they learned that they sometimes had to back up their newfound
freedoms with exclamation point provided by a gun or rifle.
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True, but that’s history--Israelites were freed from Egypt--I don’t see them
carrying around bronze spears.
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I believe the weapon of choice today is the Uzi;-)
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History is great, but know that it’s history
and times change. Symbols of freedom are great, but then we’re elevating the
gun to a symbol. This is rhetoric that fails to take in account the
evolution of society. Now freedom is covered by law, not by the gun,
therefore the gun is not needed. The idea that the ruling power can take
away your freedom is also irrelevant--they could take away your freedom
whether you have a gun or not.
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You are hopelessly naive and simply a clueless idealist.
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There was a time when gold was the currency of choice because it was worth
something. Gradually, paper money was used in lieu of gold, but there was
gold to back it up. Today there is only money, and the ‘belief’ in ourselves
that this money is worth what it is--‘real’ gold is no longer needed to back
it up. The time for guns, like gold as official currency, has passed.
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See previous statement.
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I understand your arguments about guns, and I am not without sympathy.
Sadly we live in a world where guns mean freedom -- the last hope of
preventing political enslavement.
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Guns != freedom. Guns=death. Cute fuzzy rhetoric doesn’t change
reality--reality is that guns kill people--that’s their intended function.
Take away the guns and the gun related homicides stop.
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Once again, Dave, reality is that guns will never go away! That is reality.
Deal.
JOHN
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