 | | mindstorms NXT —Lee Magpili
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| | | check out www.mindstorms.com/press lego just put out a press release all about the NeXT version of mindstorms, they put a whole spec out on it.. heres a bit from the article explaining the specs LEGO MINDSTORMS NXT highlights include: • All-new NXT (...) (18 years ago, 5-Jan-06, to lugnet.announce) !!
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| | | | | Re: mindstorms NXT —Adrian Egli
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| | | | | (...) Might want to try this link- (URL) (18 years ago, 5-Jan-06, to lugnet.robotics)
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| | | | | | | Re: mindstorms NXT —Jonathan Wilson
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| | | | | | | Now this I like. The most important thing for LEGO is to make the thing open. Complete documents for the following should be on the LEGO mindstorms web site somewhere: The physical pinout and makeup of the new wire jacks (looks similar to RJ45 or (...) (18 years ago, 5-Jan-06, to lugnet.robotics)
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| | | | | | | Re: mindstorms NXT —Jonathan Wilson
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| | | | | | | I do wonder what microprocessor they are using in this thing. They mention 32-bit which (to me) suggests something from the ARM family (common in embedded platforms like PDAs, mobile phones, portable game consoles like the Gameboy Advance and (...) (18 years ago, 5-Jan-06, to lugnet.robotics)
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| | | | | | | Re: mindstorms NXT —Rob Hendrix
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| | | | | | Yet another link: (URL) stuff. :) -Rob www.brickmodder.net (18 years ago, 5-Jan-06, to lugnet.robotics)
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| | | | | Re: mindstorms NXT —Eric Sophie
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| | | | | (...) BEST NEWS I HEARD ALL DAY! e (18 years ago, 5-Jan-06, to lugnet.robotics)
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| | | | | | | Re: mindstorms NXT —Eric Sophie
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| | | | | | (...) A small side note to my jubilation: While I usually never critique the efforts of the Lego Company, mostly because I am sure scores of corporate brainy brains consider many of the issues us fans mull over, I do have one small gripe about the (...) (18 years ago, 6-Jan-06, to lugnet.robotics)
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| | | | | | | | Re: mindstorms NXT —Steve Lane
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| | | | | | (...) I completely disagree. Their is no need for studs on the NXT. It's sleek, and modern the way it is. I don't think I've ever used the studs on the RCX for a moc. I love the I-pod styling. And the components should have studs. (...) Lego could (...) (18 years ago, 6-Jan-06, to lugnet.robotics, FTX)
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| | | | | | | | Re: mindstorms NXT —Eric Sophie
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| | | | | | (...) Your POV, my POV. (...) Your POV, my POV. (...) Cool idea! (...) Don't ya know? (...) e (18 years ago, 6-Jan-06, to lugnet.robotics)
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| | | | | | | | mindstorms NXT —Mr S
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| | | | | | I'm sure that I'm not the only one doing this, but how many other people are looking at the pics and trying to figure out how to put those motors into their existing designs? How many have figured it out or even figured out better ways to use those (...) (18 years ago, 6-Jan-06, to lugnet.robotics)
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| | | | | Re: mindstorms NXT —Robin Werner
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| | | | | (...) Wow that looks so cool and it looks like an ipod! Can't wait to get my hands on one... They need a pre-order link, I’d order one now:) Robin W GFLUG (18 years ago, 5-Jan-06, to lugnet.robotics)
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| | | | | | | Re: mindstorms NXT —Robin Werner
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| | | | | | | Here is more on the Mindstorms NXT... (URL) W GFLUG (18 years ago, 5-Jan-06, to lugnet.robotics)
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| | | | | | | | | Re: mindstorms NXT —dan miller
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| | | | | | | | | all I can say is, Wow. Kudos to anyone who had a hint about this and kept mum. And we were all griping that they had dropped the ball! Again: Wow. (...) ___...___ Yahoo! DSL – Something to write home about. Just $16.99/mo. or less. dsl.yahoo.com (18 years ago, 5-Jan-06, to lugnet.robotics)
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| | | | | | | | | Re: mindstorms NXT —Chris 'Xenon' Hanson
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| | | | | | | | (...) Presumably, this is a test. If you know how to apply, you might be considered. (...) (18 years ago, 5-Jan-06, to lugnet.robotics)
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| | | | | | | | | | Re: mindstorms NXT —Paul Gyugyi
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| | | | | | | | (...) Not hard - You just have to click on a box at (URL) and fill out a form. (18 years ago, 5-Jan-06, to lugnet.robotics)
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| | | | | | | Re: mindstorms NXT —Kyle McDonald
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| | | | | | (...) It does look cool. My only first reaction is that it looks like there are only 3 motor and 3 sensor ports (plus one ultrasonic port?) on this new one just like the original RCX. Hopefully though since it's a much more intelligent brick, and (...) (18 years ago, 5-Jan-06, to lugnet.robotics)
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| | | | | Re: mindstorms NXT —Ondrew Hartigan
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| | | | | (...) (URL) Wow! I’m not sure of what to say. It looks like they decided to start using phone cord for wire, which is actually a good idea I think. I’m a little disappointed in the over stylization though. What ever happened to good old fashioned (...) (18 years ago, 5-Jan-06, to lugnet.robotics, FTX)
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| | | | | | | Re: mindstorms NXT —Ray Sanders
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| | | | | | | (...) The slide on the Wired article mentions that it is a 6-wire digital cable. I can't remember if RJ-11 can do 6-wire. It might be something between RJ-11 and RJ-45. Impressive regardless. Ray (18 years ago, 5-Jan-06, to lugnet.robotics, FTX)
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| | | | | | | | | Re: mindstorms NXT —Simon Bogaert
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| | | | | | | | | RJ11 indeed does 6-wire. Normal phone cord only has 4 metal contacts in place, but there's space for another two... Regards, SuSEQ aka Simon Bogaert ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ray Sanders" (...) (18 years ago, 5-Jan-06, to lugnet.robotics)
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| | | | | | | | | | | Re: mindstorms NXT —Philippe Hurbain
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| | | | | | | | | | (...) RJ11, yes. But not standard type: if you look closely the cable retainer is uncentered... Philo (18 years ago, 5-Jan-06, to lugnet.robotics)
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| | | | | | | | | | | | Re: mindstorms NXT —Simon Bogaert
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| | | | | | | | | | | You're right... But if the other dimensions are still within close range of those of a RJ11, I guess roll-your-own connectors can 't be that hard... Regards, Simon ----- Original Message ----- From: "Philippe Hurbain" (...) (18 years ago, 5-Jan-06, to lugnet.robotics)
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | Re: mindstorms NXT —Kyle McDonald
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| | | | | | | | | | | | (...) Actually the offcenter connector has a name already. If I recall correctly it was RJ-12. 6 wires, off center. I think DEC used them on keyboards and serial ports on VT-xx0 terminals a long time ago. I'm pretty sure they can still be found. (...) (18 years ago, 5-Jan-06, to lugnet.robotics)
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | Re: mindstorms NXT —John Barnes
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| | | | | | | | | | | | (...) I am sure that safety was the reason. But I checked out the old DEC connectors and I think they were polarized to the opposite side! grrrrrr JB (18 years ago, 5-Jan-06, to lugnet.robotics)
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | Re: mindstorms NXT —Philippe Hurbain
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | (...) Yes, quite easily! but... (...) ...from connectors drawings and LEGO images, I think that John is right. grrrr! I scoured AMP online catalog - phew :P - and found nothing with the latch on the right side. Standard RJ connector with filed (...) (18 years ago, 6-Jan-06, to lugnet.robotics)
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Re: mindstorms NXT —John Barnes
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | (...) Yes, I plan on trying that. Since the connectors fit flush into the receptacle, a simple structure of half wide beams may be able to be placed in such a way as to hold the connectors in place. JB (18 years ago, 6-Jan-06, to lugnet.robotics)
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | Re: mindstorms NXT —Rob Hendrix
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | (...) Well, if LEGO is encouraging third party involvement, then I would assume they wouldn't mind releasing information on how to get these connectors (reverse MMJ?). -Rob www.brickmodder.net (18 years ago, 6-Jan-06, to lugnet.robotics)
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Re: mindstorms NXT —Mark Bellis
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | (...) I read this on (URL) : ---...--- Raphael Jacquot Says: January 6th, 2006 at 4:03 pm. Those connectors are in fact strandard. they are the DEC 6c (similar to RJ-12 with offset catch) for instance, available here: (URL) it comes up right, the (...) (18 years ago, 6-Jan-06, to lugnet.robotics)
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | Re: mindstorms NXT —Tim Byrne
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| | | | | | | | | | | | (...) It just dawned on me, and I'm not sure if this has been suggested yet but… It would be simple to take the LEGO connectors and attach a standard socket to it (such as RJ11) thus making an adaptor so standard plugs could be used in making custom (...) (18 years ago, 11-Jan-06, to lugnet.robotics)
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | Re: mindstorms NXT —Steve Bliss
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| | | | | | | | | | | | (...) Well, the press-kit renderings show the motors have sockets. The only shot I could find of the back of a sensor is an un-connected touch(?) sensor on the Tribot. It's pointed toward the floor, underneath another touch sensor mounted below the (...) (18 years ago, 11-Jan-06, to lugnet.robotics)
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| | | | | | | | | | | | Re: mindstorms NXT —Juergen Stuber
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| | | | | | | | | | Hi Philippe, (...) we have uncentered RJ11 on DSL splitters here in Germany. But I never saw them other than on the end of a special cable, and they won't fit into my crimp tool. Cheers Jürgen (18 years ago, 5-Jan-06, to lugnet.robotics)
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| | | | | | | | | Re: mindstorms NXT —Russell Nelson
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| | | | | | | | Ray Sanders writes: > The slide on the Wired article mentions that it is a 6-wire digital > cable. I can't remember if RJ-11 can do 6-wire. It might be > something between RJ-11 and RJ-45. Impressive regardless. RJ-13 is 6-wire. (18 years ago, 7-Jan-06, to lugnet.robotics)
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| | | | | | | Re: mindstorms NXT —Matthew Ruschmann
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| | | | | | (...) You can connect some technic bricks to the sides and have studded bricks very easily. Studless design allows you to access the batteries, display, and buttons much easier. Also technic connection are significantly stronger than the old (...) (18 years ago, 5-Jan-06, to lugnet.robotics, FTX)
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| | | | | Re: mindstorms NXT —Stefan Garcia
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| | | | | *drool* I'ma buyin' one fer sure. -Stefan- (18 years ago, 5-Jan-06, to lugnet.robotics)
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| | | | | Re: mindstorms NXT —Daniel Jackson
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| | | | | (...) Darn it, you beat me to posting this! :-P Anyway, I can't WAIT until this is released. I help my local elementary school every year with the FIRST LEGO League competition, so hopefully they will use this kit. I will more than likley save up (...) (18 years ago, 5-Jan-06, to lugnet.robotics)
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| | | | | | | Re: mindstorms NXT —Gyl Midroni
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| | | | | | | (...) Is this going to be totally incompatible with the old Mindstorms?? That would be devastating to people with investments in the existing system. Gyl (18 years ago, 5-Jan-06, to lugnet.robotics)
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| | | | | | | | | RE: mindstorms NXT —jim
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| | | | | | | | -----Original Message----- From: news-gateway@lugnet.com [mailto:news-gateway...ugnet.com] On Behalf Of Gyl Midroni Sent: Thursday, 5 January 2006 11:13 PM To: lego-robotics@crynwr.com Subject: Re: mindstorms NXT (...) Is this going to be totally (...) (18 years ago, 6-Jan-06, to lugnet.robotics)
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| | | | | | | | | | RE: mindstorms NXT —Mr S
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| | | | | | | | | I'm not sure about other AFOLs, but I'm not purist and have been considering (quite energetically) adding an Atmel ARM7 board to my robot, interfacing to the RCX via I2C/IR (from Mindsensors.com) and using BT or USB just changes the interface issue (...) (18 years ago, 6-Jan-06, to lugnet.robotics)
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| | | | | | | | | | Re: mindstorms NXT —Chris 'Xenon' Hanson
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| | | | | | | | (...) Nothing about the new system appears to be electrically compatible. I suspect that someone will make an electronic bridge device. Obviously, being LEGO, it is all mechanically compatible. (...) (18 years ago, 6-Jan-06, to lugnet.robotics)
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| | | | | | | RE: mindstorms NXT —Jonathan Spitz
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| | | | | | | Wow, that really looks very cool and as someone already said, kudos to the few that followed that NDA to the line, that's a BIG secret to keep for a mindstorms fan. Now we know who to blame for the things we don't like ;D . Anyway, I don't want to (...) (18 years ago, 5-Jan-06, to lugnet.robotics)
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| | | | | | | | | Re: mindstorms NXT —Chris 'Xenon' Hanson
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| | | | | | | | (...) Speculation: I think we're looking at some sort of i2c-like type interface here, where you'll find continuous power on one of the pairs and the other two pairs being used as some sort of high-speed digital bidirectional full-duplex or (...) (18 years ago, 5-Jan-06, to lugnet.robotics)
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| | | | | | | | | | Re: mindstorms NXT —Matthew Ruschmann
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| | | | | | | | (...) I will speculate with you here. If I was a betting man, I would bet that they just made 3 of them "motor" ports because of power limitations. I highly doubt they used USB. Of course, you could always plop a usb hub into that port and make your (...) (18 years ago, 5-Jan-06, to lugnet.robotics)
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| | | | | | | Re: mindstorms NXT —Ray Sanders
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| | | | | | (...) from the botmag page... "A special version for school and institutional use is also releasing later this year." (URL) (and better) than the consumer version ? Ray (18 years ago, 6-Jan-06, to lugnet.robotics)
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| | | | | | | | Re: mindstorms NXT —Jordan Bradford
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| | | | | | (...) That probably just means it will have 1. a more powerful programming environment, just like the ROBOLAB software in the Mindstorms for Schools sets is better than the RCX Code software that ships with Mindstorms 2.0 sets. 2. specific sets for (...) (18 years ago, 8-Jan-06, to lugnet.robotics)
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| | | | | | | | Re: mindstorms NXT —Ignacio Martinez Vazquez
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| | | | | | (...) I bought my mindstorms from pitsco to save $50... (cost $150) (18 years ago, 8-Jan-06, to lugnet.robotics)
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| | | | | | | | Re: mindstorms NXT —Jordan Bradford
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| | | | | | (...) I'm talking about stuff like this: (URL) for the start-up pack, which is for eight paired students. The Team Challenge with USB set is $200, and you get four of them. That's still just $800, so there's another $450 worth of stuff. 4 extra (...) (18 years ago, 8-Jan-06, to lugnet.robotics)
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| | | | | Re: mindstorms NXT —Luca Bortolotti
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| | | | | (...) WOW!!!...!!! But... Is there any sort of retro-compatibility??? Luca (18 years ago, 5-Jan-06, to lugnet.robotics)
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| | | | | | | Re: mindstorms NXT —Stefan Garcia
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| | | | | | The Wired magazine article says no backward compatibility, apparently because they're using digital wire, new language, new everything, pretty much. -Stefan- (18 years ago, 5-Jan-06, to lugnet.robotics)
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| | | | | Re: mindstorms NXT —Kevin L. Clague
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| | | | | (...) <snip> (...) Wow! Very cool! I want two to start with! Kev (18 years ago, 5-Jan-06, to lugnet.robotics)
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| | | | | | | Re: mindstorms NXT —Allen Foster
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| | | | | | Just out of interest, who'd going to sell their old Mindstorms stuff. According to the Wired article, the new NXT series sets won't be compatible with the old Mindstorms stuff which is a bit alarming. It makes me wonder if it is worth holding onto (...) (18 years ago, 5-Jan-06, to lugnet.robotics)
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| | | | | | | | Re: mindstorms NXT —Gyl Midroni
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| | | | | | | (...) My main worry is that the programming interfaces for the new and the old systems won't be able to co-exist on the same computer system, so if you want to use your old RCX you have to program it on different PC from the one you use for the new (...) (18 years ago, 5-Jan-06, to lugnet.robotics)
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| | | | | | | | | Re: mindstorms NXT —Luca Bortolotti
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| | | | | | | | | (...) And where are the studs???...??? It looks 100% liftarms to me (18 years ago, 5-Jan-06, to lugnet.robotics)
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| | | | | | | | | | | Re: mindstorms NXT —Matthew Davidson
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| | | | | | | | | | I guess 'digital wire interface' implies the output from the sensor itself is digital? The RCX inputs are analog and the A/D occurs inside the RCX, does it not? (18 years ago, 5-Jan-06, to lugnet.robotics)
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| | | | | | | | | | | | Re: mindstorms NXT —Ignacio Martinez Vazquez
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| | | | | | | | | | Maybe they're just making it sound better, but it'd certainly be better to have digital sensors... although homebrew will be harder. However, I don't think I'll be able to ask my dad for NeXT after the HuGE expense of the cnc machine... (...) (18 years ago, 5-Jan-06, to lugnet.robotics)
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| | | | | | | | | Re: mindstorms NXT —Stefan Garcia
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| | | | | | | | I don't see why you wouldn't be able to install both progs on one comp. People could use NCQ progs and stock Mindstorms on the same comp, after all. -Stefan- (18 years ago, 5-Jan-06, to lugnet.robotics)
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| | | | | | | | | | Re: mindstorms NXT —Gyl Midroni
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| | | | | | | | (...) It sounds simple, but Mindstorms has never been very friendly with things like ports and interrupts. If both systems are installed and competing for the same computer resources..... trouble will occur. If they over-write each others' DLLs, (...) (18 years ago, 5-Jan-06, to lugnet.robotics)
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| | | | | | | | Re: mindstorms NXT —Brian Davis
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| | | | | | | (...) Not me. From the press release it looks like this new NXT is going to outclass the RCX, but that doesn't mean I won't play with the "old" stuff a whole lot as well - I've not come near the limits of it as yet (I'm fine tuning my 3T robot as I (...) (18 years ago, 5-Jan-06, to lugnet.robotics)
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| | | | | | | | Re: mindstorms NXT —Simon Bogaert
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| | | | | | | If this new sensor interface indeed is digital and indeed has an "open" protocol, there will soon enough be some eletronics engineer designing an interface or a multiplexer for the old sensors... Lego won't be the one providing that interface, I (...) (18 years ago, 5-Jan-06, to lugnet.robotics)
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| | | | | | | | Re: mindstorms NXT —Ross Crawford
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| | | | | | (...) Yeah it woulda been nice if the new one had IR as well and be able to control the "legacy" bricks. I'm sure the old ones will find a myriad of uses doing simpler jobs like moving cows heads on train layouts ;) (...) Well, I hope they are also (...) (18 years ago, 5-Jan-06, to lugnet.robotics)
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| | | | | | | | Re: mindstorms NXT —Matthew Davidson
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| | | | | | | (...) Interesting scenario. Perhaps someone can work up a homebrew bluetooth to IR repeater. Sound crazy? I'll believe anything after what I've seen people accomplish with the RCX, extending it with gameboys and such. I'm sure there are existing (...) (18 years ago, 5-Jan-06, to lugnet.robotics)
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| | | | | | | | | Re: mindstorms NXT —Jordan Bradford
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| | | | | | | | (...) I thought of this yesterday. If I end up as one of the 100 people who get it early, I'll connect a LEGO USB tower to the NXT USB port and see if I can get the NXT to control the tower. I assume I'll need a USB type-A to type-B converter. As (...) (18 years ago, 6-Jan-06, to lugnet.robotics, FTX)
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| | | | | | | | | | RE: mindstorms NXT SDK —Dick Swan
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| | | | | | | | | In lugnet.robotics, Jordan Bradford wrote: On Jan 5, 2006, at 8:21 PM, Ross Crawford wrote: I'm hoping it's just a matter of hacking the USB driver in the Mindstorms SDK. Which SDK would that be? (18 years ago, 6-Jan-06, to lugnet.robotics)
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| | | | | | | | | | | Re: mindstorms NXT SDK —Jordan Bradford
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| | | | | | | | | | (...) (URL) The Ghost communication stack and API would have to be implemented in the NXT. That's actually what I meant when I said "driver." A custom driver for the tower would probably have to be written for the tower to run from within the NXT. I (...) (18 years ago, 6-Jan-06, to lugnet.robotics, FTX)
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| | | | | | | | | | Re: mindstorms NXT —Simon Bogaert
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| | | | | | | | If Lego obeys the USB standard and uses fullsize receptacles, it'll be a "B" type connector on the NXT. Hence, you'd need a B-male to A-female cable, which is "illegal" according to the USB standards. You might hack up your own, but that's (...) (18 years ago, 6-Jan-06, to lugnet.robotics)
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| | | | | | | | | | Re: mindstorms NXT —Philippe Hurbain
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| | | | | | | | | (...) Indeed, see this image, also clearly showing motor connectors : (URL) (from the article now available here (URL)) (...) An USB On The Go (host+slave) chip is not so expansive. But a host software stack is much more complex, and would expose (...) (18 years ago, 6-Jan-06, to lugnet.robotics, FTX)
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| | | | | | | | | | | Re: mindstorms NXT —Luca Bortolotti
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| | | | | | | | | | (...) Just as lego says: What is the usability of the USB port in the NXT brick? The USB port is a "slave" which means that it can only communicate with USB "master" ports, e.g. computers. The usage of the USB port is for fast download from PC to (...) (18 years ago, 7-Jan-06, to lugnet.robotics, FTX)
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| | | | | | | | | | Re: mindstorms NXT —Jordan Bradford
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| | | | | | | | (...) You mean like one of these? ;) (URL) (...) I've read the replies to this post, but I'll respond here. As far as the cable is concerned, the plug type is irrelevant; it's just a standard. The real determination of "master" and "slave" happens (...) (18 years ago, 8-Jan-06, to lugnet.robotics, FTX)
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| | | | | | | | | | hitechnic compass —dan miller
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| | | | | | | | I know everyone is psyched about the NXT, but on another topic-- does anyone have experience with the new compass sensor from Hitechnic? In particular, I'm wondering what chip they use, and how sensitive it is to non-horizontal placement. Also, can (...) (18 years ago, 8-Jan-06, to lugnet.robotics)
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| | | | | | | | | | Re: hitechnic compass & NXT —Steve Hassenplug
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| | | | | | | | (...) I got one a little while ago. It's pretty cool. With that, and one rotation sensor, I was able to make a robot that could navigate a pre-defined course around my house. I'm not sure what chip is used, but I doubt you'll get better accuracy (...) (18 years ago, 10-Jan-06, to lugnet.robotics)
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| | | | | | | | Re: mindstorms NXT —Matthew Ruschmann
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| | | | | | (...) Actually, the RCX outputs 0's and 1's to power the motors as it is right now. It uses Pulse Width Modulation (PWM). Basically for 1/3 power 1/3 of the pulse is 1 and the other 2/3 is 0. For full power, the signal is all 1. This creates a (...) (18 years ago, 5-Jan-06, to lugnet.robotics)
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| | | | | | | | Re: mindstorms NXT —Yann Vernier
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| | | | | | | (...) I doubt that will do what you want. The RCX motor ports are equipped with motor drivers - ICs that can provide rather a lot of current, switch direction, and even short circuit the port. The digital wires would be I/O, not meant for noticeable (...) (18 years ago, 6-Jan-06, to lugnet.robotics)
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| | | | | | | | | Re: mindstorms NXT —Ross Crawford
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| | | | | | | | (...) I see no other wires into the motors, which means all the current is coming from that one connection. Whether or not there is separate supply and control lines in that connector is debatable until we get our hands on one - I would prefer not, (...) (18 years ago, 6-Jan-06, to lugnet.robotics)
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| | | | | | | | | | Re: mindstorms NXT —Ray Sanders
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| | | | | | | | (...) From the LEGO NXT FAQ... "An electric motor whose speed or position is controlled by a closed loop feedback circuit that can sense its position. The speed of the motor is measured by a tachometer. The tachometer produces a voltage that is (...) (18 years ago, 8-Jan-06, to lugnet.robotics)
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| | | | | | | | Re: mindstorms NXT —John Barnes
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| | | | | | (...) I think that saying the RCX outputs 0's and 1's to the motor may be a bit misleading with respect to considerations of digital signalling. It is true that the CPU inside the RCX creates a logic level (1's and 0's) PWM signal intended for the (...) (18 years ago, 6-Jan-06, to lugnet.robotics)
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| | | | | Re: mindstorms NXT —Ka-On Lee
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| | | | | Robot Magazine: (URL) much technical detail but have pictures and video of 3 other models. From the Developer Program page, the new unit still use 6 AA battery: (URL) (18 years ago, 5-Jan-06, to lugnet.robotics)
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| | | | | | | Re: mindstorms NXT —Steve Bliss
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| | | | | | (...) that source? Forget the USB-powered coffee mug hotplate -- I want to run my MINDSTORMS on USB! Steve (18 years ago, 6-Jan-06, to lugnet.robotics)
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| | | | | | | | Re: mindstorms NXT —Ka-On Lee
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| | | | | | | (...) Powered USB port can deliver up to (URL) 5V and 500mA>, so that is insufficent for LEGO motors. (18 years ago, 6-Jan-06, to lugnet.robotics, FTX)
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| | | | | | | | Re: mindstorms NXT —danny staple
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| | | | | | (...) While I realise you mean USB powering the NXT, one thing that also sprang to mind is would it be possible to get the NXT in some cases to act as a USB host as opposed to a device. This would depend on how much of its USB stack is implemented (...) (18 years ago, 6-Jan-06, to lugnet.robotics)
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| | | | | Re: mindstorms NXT —John Gerlach
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| | | | | (...) This is SO cool. Kudos to Lego, and kudos to the folks who could keep this secret while they worked on it! Sign me up for at least two of them... :-) JohnG, GMLTC (18 years ago, 5-Jan-06, to lugnet.robotics)
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| | | | | Re: mindstorms NXT —Marc Nelson Jr.
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| | | | | (...) (URL) Slashdotted>. Marc Nelson Jr. (URL) Marc's Creations>> (18 years ago, 5-Jan-06, to lugnet.robotics, FTX)
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| | | | | Re: mindstorms NXT —Ram Meenakshisundaram
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| | | | | OK MUP members, spill the beans :-) We know who you are :-) How do you connect multiple motors now? Also, what type of processor is it, speed, and memory?? Thanks, Ram PS: I REALLY WANT ONE! (18 years ago, 5-Jan-06, to lugnet.robotics)
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| | | | | | | Re: mindstorms NXT —Brian Davis
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| | | | | | | (...) Since the known MUP members haven't added a whole lot yet, I suspect that the NDA mentioned in the Wired article is (sadly) still in effect. But still, there's a lot to see in those juicy pictures and the wealth of specifications in the LEGO (...) (18 years ago, 5-Jan-06, to lugnet.robotics)
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| | | | | | | | | Re: mindstorms NXT —Mr S
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| | | | | | | | Well, I suppose that the speculation will begin any moment now, but a digital I/O with 6 lines could be enough for power, ground, tx, rx, clock, and signal ground.... wonder what type of interface it actually is? Bluetooth is good! Not as much range (...) (18 years ago, 5-Jan-06, to lugnet.robotics)
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| | | | | | | | | | Re: mindstorms NXT —Ray Sanders
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| | | | | | | | (...) I *hope* that they use of BT will allow one control source (like my iBook ;) to control multiple NXT units simultaneously. The mind boggles ! Ray (18 years ago, 6-Jan-06, to lugnet.robotics)
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| | | | | | | Re: mindstorms NXT —John Barnes
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| | | | | | | (...) The NDA is still firmly in place. And they know where we live ;) But, I am very interested by your multiple motor question however. Why do you need to connect multiple motors? JB (18 years ago, 5-Jan-06, to lugnet.robotics)
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| | | | | | | | | Re: mindstorms NXT —John Gerlach
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| | | | | | | | | (...) To make multiple things move! Duh! (that's a joke, people!) I'd like to see if I could hook one of these things up to 'standard' 9volt stuff - lights, sound elements, technic motors, *trains*... JohnG, GMLTC (18 years ago, 5-Jan-06, to lugnet.robotics)
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| | | | | | | | | Re: mindstorms NXT —Ram Meenakshisundaram
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| | | | | | | | | (...) How would you create a rover-based robot with just three motors? I want to design more complex rovers other than the two-wheeled plus caster designs. Something like the shrimp for instance. The old rcx allows you to connect multiple motors to (...) (18 years ago, 5-Jan-06, to lugnet.robotics)
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| | | | | | | | | | | Re: mindstorms NXT —Ram Meenakshisundaram
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| | | | | | | | | | | (...) Hope its possible to create an I2C port using the sensor ports. Its a shame they didnt create an I2C port for daisychaining sensors. Or is the sonar port a I2C port.... Ram (18 years ago, 5-Jan-06, to lugnet.robotics)
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | Re: mindstorms NXT —Chris 'Xenon' Hanson
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| | | | | | | | | | | | (...) My conclusion that the bus is multipurpose stems from the evidence that there is a speed sensor (optoencoder of some sort?) on the motors. I presume that means that the motor ports have both output (motor control) and input (sensor feedback). (...) (18 years ago, 5-Jan-06, to lugnet.robotics)
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | Re: mindstorms NXT —John Barnes
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| | | | | | | | | | | | (...) I do hope so :) As the wired article pointed out, we didn't get everything we asked for. But there are features we did ask for and got. So just as soon as the shackles come off .... JB (18 years ago, 6-Jan-06, to lugnet.robotics)
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | Re: mindstorms NXT —Chris Magno
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| | | | | | | | | | | | (...) will that be before Aug 2006? (18 years ago, 6-Jan-06, to lugnet.robotics)
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | Re: mindstorms NXT —John Barnes
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | (...) Ask the guy with the keyring. (18 years ago, 6-Jan-06, to lugnet.robotics)
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | Re: mindstorms NXT —Larry Pieniazek
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| | | | | | | | | | | | (...) Stop hassling the "Sensor Sensei" ... Grin. (I bet it really gets you going that Steve got a connect4 bot into his pic. No, more seriously I think we all want to know as soon as people are allowed to tell. (URL) is pretty darn cool news. (...) (18 years ago, 6-Jan-06, to lugnet.robotics)
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| | | | | | | | | | | Re: mindstorms NXT —John Barnes
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| | | | | | | | | | | (...) So you parallel motors on the same port to do different things? As opposed to using a single motor mechanically coupled to different things? Is this as a result of a single motor not being powerful enough? Or because the two paralleled motors (...) (18 years ago, 5-Jan-06, to lugnet.robotics)
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | Re: mindstorms NXT —Ross Crawford
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| | | | | | | | | | | | (...) Or they are far enough apart or in a difficult arrangement so that a mechanical link is impractical. (eg: moving WRT each other.) ROSCO (18 years ago, 5-Jan-06, to lugnet.robotics)
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | Re: mindstorms NXT —Ram Meenakshisundaram
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| | | | | | | | | | | | (...) Right. You cant always do things mechanically as it would complicate the design and might be too far apart. Also, sometimes a single motor doesnt have enough power, so doubling it up helps.... Ram (18 years ago, 5-Jan-06, to lugnet.robotics)
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| | | | | | | | | | | Re: mindstorms NXT —Rob Hendrix
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| | | | | | | | | | (...) I agree with this part of your statement. I'd like to be able to connect other things besides motors to the outputs, and I've noticed that so far it appears as if you won't be able to daisy chain things like touch sensors on the inputs. That's (...) (18 years ago, 6-Jan-06, to lugnet.robotics)
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| | | | | | | | | | | | Re: mindstorms NXT —William Grant
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| | | | | | | | | | -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 (...) Those connectors aren't proprietary! They are common RJ11 phone plugs/sockets! They can be got at any electronics store, so they are much easier to get than the previous ones. Is this Lego being (...) (18 years ago, 6-Jan-06, to lugnet.robotics)
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| | | | | | | | | | | | Re: mindstorms NXT —John Barnes
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| | | | | | | | | | | (...) Can you possibly go visit one of these stores, confirm that the necessary offset latch is on the correct side and provide us with part numbers. This is really important information! JB (18 years ago, 7-Jan-06, to lugnet.robotics)
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | Re: mindstorms NXT —Mark Bellis
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| | | | | | | | | | | | (...) I posted this information earlier: (URL) (18 years ago, 7-Jan-06, to lugnet.robotics)
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | Re: mindstorms NXT —Rob Antonishen
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| | | | | | | | | | | | (...) Here is a sample of the DEC RJ12 connector: (URL) like the same connection. -Rob A> (18 years ago, 8-Jan-06, to lugnet.robotics)
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | Re: mindstorms NXT —John Barnes
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| | | | | | | | | | | | (...) Except the new Lego connector has the latch on the opposite side I think. JB (18 years ago, 8-Jan-06, to lugnet.robotics)
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | Re: mindstorms NXT —Rob Hendrix
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| | | | | | | | | | | | "John Barnes" <barnes@sensors.com> wrote in message news:Isr07J.1rvn@lugnet.com... (...) I'm with JB on this one. The press release photos (unless they are backwards!!) clearly show that clip being on the opposite side. -Rob www.brickmodder.net JB (18 years ago, 8-Jan-06, to lugnet.robotics)
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | Re: mindstorms NXT —Mark Bellis
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| | | | | | | | | | | | (...) On brightening up a picture looking into the ports, I see you're right about where the connector key is. Looking on Google, I found that other people cut the key off normal RJ12 connectors in order to use them with RJ12 DEC MMJ sockets: (URL) (...) (18 years ago, 8-Jan-06, to lugnet.robotics)
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| | | | | | | | | | | | Re: mindstorms NXT —William Grant
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| | | | | | | | | | | (...) Well, I stand corrected. They look just like RJ11, yet they are not. Oops. >_< William. (18 years ago, 7-Jan-06, to lugnet.robotics)
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | Re: mindstorms NXT —Ignacio Martinez Vazquez
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| | | | | | | | | | | | I bet they are regular motors, but the NXT senses back EMF to know how fast the motor is going. I wonder why they are so bulky, then... Also, stupid request: I hope the buttons on the NXT don´t take too much strength, because I don´t want to tear (...) (18 years ago, 7-Jan-06, to lugnet.robotics)
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | Re: mindstorms NXT —Ignacio Martinez Vazquez
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| | | | | | | | | | | | Umm sorry, I gotta work on my writing. Disregard the repetition of "also". Also :P, I wonder how long till they make a C language for NXT. I think there´s a thread on this I haven´t read. (...) (18 years ago, 7-Jan-06, to lugnet.robotics)
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| | | | | | | | | | | | Re: mindstorms NXT —Jonathan Wilson
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| | | | | | | | | | (...) Wrong. They are not RJ11. They appear to be RJ12 (with 6 wires) with an offset catch thing Someone said they might be the same as an old DEC connector but someone else has said that the DEC connector has the catch on the opposite side to the (...) (18 years ago, 7-Jan-06, to lugnet.robotics)
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| | | | | | | | | Re: mindstorms NXT —Simon Bogaert
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| | | | | | | | Well, 3 motors/output ports never were enough... (at least, when the bot wasn't big enough for multiple RCX's, or if you don't own more than one) I guess that's something that won't change easily... :) Off course, there's all sorts of workarounds to (...) (18 years ago, 5-Jan-06, to lugnet.robotics)
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| | | | | | | | | | Re: mindstorms NXT —John Barnes
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| | | | | | | | (...) If you look at the picture of the new motor, you may notice that the orange disk with the cross axle hole in the center appears to be a single piece with four pin holes in addition. This might give the impression that the available torque may (...) (18 years ago, 6-Jan-06, to lugnet.robotics)
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| | | | | | | | | | Re: mindstorms NXT —Ross Crawford
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| | | | | | | | (...) Sure, but that's only a benefit if you're attaching it direct to shatever needs the high torque. If you need some kind of transmission (which will probably be often with such big motors) the advantage is lost. ROSCO (18 years ago, 6-Jan-06, to lugnet.robotics)
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| | | | | | | | | | Re: mindstorms NXT —John Barnes
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| | | | | | | | (...) This is, of course, true. However, I would point out the general construction of rear engined race cars typically include the transmission and engine as a single unit which also forms part of the vehicle structure. With the apparent (...) (18 years ago, 6-Jan-06, to lugnet.robotics)
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| | | | | | | | | | Re: mindstorms NXT —Simon Bogaert
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| | | | | | | | | Personally, I think of the four extra "technics" holes as an added plus, not exactly a necessity... But then again, I'm not as seasoned a builder as you all are... :) Now, when you're talking car-like vehicles, I'd like to point some issues. First (...) (18 years ago, 6-Jan-06, to lugnet.robotics)
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| | | | | | | | | | Re: mindstorms NXT —Simon Bogaert
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| | | | | | | | That's what I've been asking before... ;) Since USB is completely host-centric, a simple client device (such as the lego nxt) cannot directly speak to another client device. You'd really need a USB host, being most commonly a home computer. I know (...) (18 years ago, 6-Jan-06, to lugnet.robotics)
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| | | | | | | Re: mindstorms NXT —Matthew Ruschmann
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| | | | | | | (...) If these lines are purely digital communication lines, adding additional motors will be easy via a multiplexor attached to one of the RJ11 output. Building the multiplexor (or any custom sensors) may not be as easy though. It looks like you (...) (18 years ago, 5-Jan-06, to lugnet.robotics)
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| | | | | | | Re: mindstorms NXT —Mike Walters
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| | | | | | I'm embarrassingly new to Mindstorms. My first Mindstorms system (RIS 2.0) was purchased just two weeks ago. I'm still very much a novice. With that in mind...I have a few observations/questions of my own: 1) I'm stunned by this announcement! After (...) (18 years ago, 6-Jan-06, to lugnet.robotics)
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| | | | | | | | Re: mindstorms NXT —Timothy Carl Buchheim
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| | | | | | | (...) My hope is that this is some sort of bus system which will allow someone (possible LEGO itself) to make a "hub" which you could use for this. There are three ways to do this: the hub could do the logic operations itself (perhaps with a switch (...) (18 years ago, 6-Jan-06, to lugnet.robotics, FTX)
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| | | | | | | | | Re: mindstorms NXT —Timothy Carl Buchheim
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| | | | | | | | (...) I was just thinking .. the rumors about this year's trains are that they'll be remote controlled battery-powered units (probably so LEGO can use cheaper track without the metal conductors) .. those would fit the bill exactly. Bluetooth (...) (18 years ago, 7-Jan-06, to lugnet.robotics, FTX)
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| | | | | | | | | | Re: mindstorms NXT —John Barnes
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| | | | | | | | (...) Well, I am pretty sure the control for the trains is IR. That's what Jake said and that is what the little black bump is on the side of the trains. I am sure TLG will do their Manas type IR serial interface, with message packets at different (...) (18 years ago, 7-Jan-06, to lugnet.robotics, FTX)
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| | | | | | | | Re: mindstorms NXT —Brian Davis
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| | | | | | (...) Don't worry, that has nothing to do with you being new to all this - we all are! Well, all but a luckey few... (...) I doubt it will be completely abandoned. After all, the first thing I want is to kludge a way to interface a NXT with and RCX, (...) (18 years ago, 6-Jan-06, to lugnet.robotics)
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| | | | | | | | Re: mindstorms NXT —Rob Antonishen
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| | | | | | (...) I threw my name in as one of the 100 early testers (who here hasn't :) and one of the questions was on FLL involvement, and a willingness to write FLL documentation. That leads me to think that they are definitely considering extending the NXT (...) (18 years ago, 8-Jan-06, to lugnet.robotics)
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| | | | | | | | Re: mindstorms NXT —Brian Davis
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| | | | | | (...) The NXT FAQ addresses this question - it says that both the RCX and NXT will *both* be allowed in the 2006 FLL season. That should make for some very interesting decisions and comparisions. It also suggests to me that along with the MUPs we (...) (18 years ago, 8-Jan-06, to lugnet.robotics)
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| | | | | | | | Re: mindstorms NXT —dan miller
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| | | | | | | If they're looking to the future, I would expect it to be a digital bus, much like something my robo-club has been thinking about. It could be I2C or CANN-based, or proprietary (unlikely). Six wires makes sense -- ground, bi-directional signal (2 (...) (18 years ago, 8-Jan-06, to lugnet.robotics)
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| | | | | | | | | Re: mindstorms NXT —Titus Gabriel Petrut
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| | | | | | | | (...) I just saw Lego's definiton of a servo motor. It resembles a industry servo, not a hobby servo. In the hobby servo, the closed loop is done in the servo electronics, but in the industry servo, the closed loop is done in the controller. (...) (18 years ago, 8-Jan-06, to lugnet.robotics)
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| | | | | | | | | | Re: mindstorms NXT —dan miller
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| | | | | | | | (...) This all makes some sense, though it seems strange to put a digital board in the servos, but not do the control there. In any case, I think my first project will be to figure out how to use the USB port to connect the NXT to a more powerful (...) (18 years ago, 8-Jan-06, to lugnet.robotics)
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| | | | | | | | | | Re: mindstorms NXT —Kevin L. Clague
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| | | | | | | | (...) I was wondering if one could make a two port host device with its own power source (battries). It could be relatively simple, where one host port polls the device port of the NXT to find out if there is anything to do, and then the second host (...) (18 years ago, 8-Jan-06, to lugnet.robotics)
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| | | | | | | | | | Re: mindstorms NXT —John Barnes
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| | | | | | | | (...) So you are saying you have a sort of mini-host acting as a bridge between connected devices like a NXT and something else. That sounds like an interesting idea ..... I think one of the reasons why hosts are tricky and devices are easier is (...) (18 years ago, 8-Jan-06, to lugnet.robotics)
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| | | | | | | | | | Re: mindstorms NXT —Jason S. Mantor
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| | | | | | | | | John Barnes wrote: I was wondering if this might be (...) I think I have one : ) It's an HP Jornada 820. Runs CE from ROM, but people are busily hacking at getting Linux to run on it. It's a nice little machine and I suspect the perfect device to (...) (18 years ago, 8-Jan-06, to lugnet.robotics)
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| | | | | | | | | | Re: mindstorms NXT —Kevin L. Clague
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| | | | | | | | (...) Yes, this was what I was brainstorming of... (...) Yes, this is very true. If you always used A for the NXT then you'd still need device drivers for whatever is plugged into B. (...) Yes, as long as the WindowsCE has host capabilities. My (...) (18 years ago, 9-Jan-06, to lugnet.robotics)
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| | | | | | | | Re: mindstorms NXT —dan miller
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| | | | | | [apologies to Steve, I sent these to him instead of the list -- this is the only list I'm on that puts the last poster's email in the 'reply to' field] I've been playing with technics-dominated ideas for some time, but little things like this always (...) (18 years ago, 8-Jan-06, to lugnet.robotics)
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| | | | | Re: mindstorms NXT —Gordon Bentley
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| | | | | Generally looks pretty good, but there's a few issues. Those motors are great as long as you don't want to bury them inside a model so they're hidden. Think large cranes, backhoes, loaders, etc. Lego should remember that robots aren't the only thing (...) (18 years ago, 6-Jan-06, to lugnet.robotics)
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| | | | | | | Re: mindstorms NXT —Matthew Davidson
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| | | | | | (...) I suspect power is the primary limiting factor for 8 outputs. With Bluetooth, another NXT is your port expansion, is it not? The downside is bulk, but the entire package contains another power source as well. - matthew (URL) (18 years ago, 6-Jan-06, to lugnet.robotics)
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| | | | | Re: mindstorms NXT —Luca Bortolotti
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| | | | | Have you seen this video yet? (URL) VERY cool indeed :-) (18 years ago, 6-Jan-06, to lugnet.robotics)
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| | | | | Re: mindstorms NXT —Bob Kojima
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| | | | | I'm looking forward to stocking up on this new part: (URL) it is so hard to do 90 degree studless conections. i hope this part comes out in sets before august. service pack.... pick a brick... just dreaming.... bob (18 years ago, 6-Jan-06, to lugnet.robotics, FTX)
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| | | | | | | Re: mindstorms NXT —Jonathan Wilson
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| | | | | | (...) There is also this related part (URL) (18 years ago, 7-Jan-06, to lugnet.robotics)
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| | | | | Re: mindstorms NXT —Ka-On Lee
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| | | | | NXT Spec From (URL) Service FAQ> • 32-bit ARM7 microprocessor • 256 Kbytes FLASH, 64 Kbytes RAM • 8-bit microprocessor • 4 Kbytes FLASH, 512 Byte RAM • Bluetooth wireless communication • USB 2.0 port • 4 input ports, 6 wire digital platform • 3 (...) (18 years ago, 7-Jan-06, to lugnet.robotics, FTX)
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| | | | | | | Re: mindstorms NXT —John Barnes
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| | | | | | | (...) My thought exactly. Perfect opportunity to build an outboard speech recognition device using new technology speech recognition chips hooked to the new digital interface (whatever that turns out to be) to communicate recognition "hits" back to (...) (18 years ago, 7-Jan-06, to lugnet.robotics, FTX)
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| | | | | | | Re: mindstorms NXT —Chris 'Xenon' Hanson
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| | | | | | | (...) Niiice. (...) Interesting. I wonder if this is an H8? Maybe the NXT can emulate an RCX somehow? Doesn't seem like that would be all that valuable. Maybe I'm reading too much into it. (18 years ago, 7-Jan-06, to lugnet.robotics)
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| | | | | | | Re: mindstorms NXT —Timothy P. Smith
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| | | | | | | (...) So- it's a 32-bit processor and an 8-bit? With both 512 bytes and 64k bytes of RAM? Wonder who wrote that spec? (18 years ago, 7-Jan-06, to lugnet.robotics, FTX)
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| | | | | | | Re: mindstorms NXT —William Grant
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| | | | | | (...) 64K RAM!? That's absolutely ludicrous! The RCX has 32kb entirely of programmable memory (if I remember correctly), and that is just alright. 64kb is not much space to work in at all in this era! Anyway, a dot-matrix display is nice, as is (...) (18 years ago, 7-Jan-06, to lugnet.robotics)
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| | | | | | | | Re: mindstorms NXT and memory —Michael Zapp
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| | | | | | | (...) Actually, 64K of RAM is quite a bit. You have to remember that with the RCX you had 32K for everything. With the NXT all of the program code will go into (and run directly from) the 256K of flash -- this includes things that take up the most (...) (18 years ago, 7-Jan-06, to lugnet.robotics, FTX)
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| | | | | | | | | Re: mindstorms NXT and memory —steve
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| | | | | | | | (...) It depends where your ambitions lie. If you want to analyse audio or video or map your environment somehow - then 64Kb is pathetically small. If all you want is something that's just a small step ahead of an RCX then it's plenty. Of course you (...) (18 years ago, 8-Jan-06, to lugnet.robotics)
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| | | | | | | | | | Re: mindstorms NXT and memory —Brian Davis
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| | | | | | | | | (...) Well, then let's hope there's some way we can increase the amount of memory availible. I don't know about the hard-wired aspect of adding memory, but with Bluetooth... anybody thinking about a Bluetooth external memory module? Perhaps we can (...) (18 years ago, 8-Jan-06, to lugnet.robotics)
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| | | | | | | | | | Re: mindstorms NXT and memory —Michael Obenland
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| | | | | | | | | Hi Steve, (...) Not so sure about that. I would try to use the bluetooth link and let my computer do the video, audio or mapping work. I did that kind of thing with the RCX and the IR connection and it was a nightmare sometimes, it only worked (...) (18 years ago, 8-Jan-06, to lugnet.robotics)
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| | | | | | | | | | Re: mindstorms NXT and memory —Stef Mientki
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| | | | | | | | | (...) Not all flash ram is slow, ferro flash ram (e.g. FRAM) has zero write cycle time. Stef (18 years ago, 8-Jan-06, to lugnet.robotics)
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| | | | | | | | | | | Re: mindstorms NXT and memory —Ignacio Martinez Vazquez
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| | | | | | | | | | (...) In the case of room mapping, would speed be so important? Isn't it it in the ms range? (A lot compared to an instruction cycle, but good enough for a moving bot) (18 years ago, 8-Jan-06, to lugnet.robotics)
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| | | | | | | | | | Re: mindstorms NXT and memory —Ignacio Martinez Vazquez
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| | | | | | | | (...) You could use a bit per square inch (18 years ago, 8-Jan-06, to lugnet.robotics)
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| | | | | | | | | | Re: mindstorms NXT and memory —steve
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| | | | | | | | (...) You could - but I might want to store more than one bit of information per square inch (eg a 'confidence' figure or a 'time since last mapped' number - or to store multiple maps so I can see how the map is changing over time). The point is (...) (18 years ago, 9-Jan-06, to lugnet.robotics)
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| | | | | | | | | | Re: mindstorms NXT and memory —Brian Davis
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| | | | | | | | | (...) I'm curious - I'm a physicist, not by any means a hardware type. What *is* a standard amount of on-board FLASH for a embedded system? The NXT uses some sort of ARM processor (what the heck does that stand for anyway?) - how FLASH-rish do these (...) (18 years ago, 9-Jan-06, to lugnet.robotics)
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| | | | | | | | | | | Re: mindstorms NXT and memory —Alexander Sack
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| | | | | | | | | | | (...) Since I'm an engineer, I will give you the standard engineering answer: Depends on the requirements! :-) (...) (URL) ARM architecture has been around for years and has been a very effective RISC based embeddded CPU core. That Wiki article does (...) (18 years ago, 9-Jan-06, to lugnet.robotics)
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | Re: mindstorms NXT and memory —steve
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| | | | | | | | | | | | (...) I would be inclined to guess that the ARM is just the CPU core implemented in the same chip as all the other stuff the NXT uses. One of the huge reasons for picking the ARM is that it's very well suited to being integrated into the same chip (...) (18 years ago, 9-Jan-06, to lugnet.robotics)
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | Re: mindstorms NXT and memory —Alexander Sack
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| | | | | | | | | | | | (...) Right but that's not what I'm really asking! :-)! I'm sure its a variation of an ARM7 chip which will implement the standard ARM ISA. However, with any ARM7 implementation it can be catered to a specific applications. From the ARM website: (...) (18 years ago, 9-Jan-06, to lugnet.robotics)
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | Re: mindstorms NXT and memory —steve
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| | | | | | | | | | | | (...) > NXT FAQ talks about playing music. You can play music quite easily without SIMD. (...) > NXT (a nice idea from the programmers standpoint). I know the J2ME KVM > can be as small as 128K. Well, you can run Java on an RCX... (URL) you (...) (18 years ago, 9-Jan-06, to lugnet.robotics)
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | Re: mindstorms NXT and memory —Jordan Bradford
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| | | | | | | | | | | | (...) Do you mean machine code (binary) or assembly language? I first learned assembly language programming on a MIPS chip (RISC). I've also done it on a Motorola 68HC11 (a microcontroller), and I've written both pure machine code and assembly (...) (18 years ago, 10-Jan-06, to lugnet.robotics, FTX)
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | Re: mindstorms NXT and memory —Alexander Sack
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| | | | | | | | | | | | (...) There the same. (...) I guess my last post didn't make it. Fundamentally, Steve is correct that RISC is typically more complex to program since it uses less general purpose registers and more complex instructions (it tries to do more per clock (...) (18 years ago, 10-Jan-06, to lugnet.robotics, FTX)
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | Re: mindstorms NXT and memory —Kevin L. Clague
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| | | | | | | | | | | | (...) Obviously you've not coded in machine language, or you'd know they are not. (...) You misunderstand RISC and CISC. CISC instructions often combine data memory references with arithmetic, logical, or brach capabilities. RISC machines do not. (...) (18 years ago, 10-Jan-06, to lugnet.robotics, FTX)
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | Re: mindstorms NXT and memory —Alexander Sack
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| | | | | | | | | | | | (...) If you are talking about the actual 1's and 0's that represent machine code then you are correct and I misinterpreted your last post, i.e. the binary. When people speak of binaries they are usually referring to something like an executable (...) (18 years ago, 10-Jan-06, to lugnet.robotics, FTX)
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | Re: mindstorms NXT and memory —Kevin L. Clague
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| | | | | | | | | | | | (...) Now you're talkin! I've never really done more than a half dozen instructions, unless it was a homework problem waaaaaaaay (and I really mean waaaaaaaay ;^) back in college. (...) I guess this is what CISC proponents say. I don't know that I (...) (18 years ago, 10-Jan-06, to lugnet.robotics, FTX)
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | Re: mindstorms NXT and memory —Alexander Sack
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| | | | | | | | | | | | (...) I totally agree! I stated this in another thread (or maybe this one) that assembly code on Intel is like Java Byte Code (but worse). I mean its not like you *really* know as a "high-level assembly programmer" exactly the order in which (...) (18 years ago, 10-Jan-06, to lugnet.robotics, FTX)
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| | | | | | | | | | | Re: mindstorms NXT and memory —steve
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| | | | | | | | | | (...) It depends on the application obviously...but thinking of consumer devices that cost around the same ballpark as the NXT and which are likely to be sold in similar quantities, we have PDA's, handheld games, MP3 players and digital cameras. * (...) (18 years ago, 9-Jan-06, to lugnet.robotics)
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| | | | | | | | | | | | Re: mindstorms NXT and memory —Ross Crawford
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| | | | | | | | | | | (...) It's also possible (likely?) that LEGO are using an already available ARM7 chip, such as (URL) or (URL) (18 years ago, 9-Jan-06, to lugnet.robotics)
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | Re: mindstorms NXT and memory —Kevin L. Clague
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| | | | | | | | | | | | (...) off the shelf makes a lot of sense. Think of the development costs of using ARM IP on a custom chip. Suddenly LEGO would become a hardware development group, and the costs would be really high. Even if they used PLAs, they would still have a (...) (18 years ago, 9-Jan-06, to lugnet.robotics)
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| | | | | | | | | | | | Re: mindstorms NXT and memory —dan miller
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| | | | | | | | | | | (...) Just FYI, I programmed an ARM chip over 10 years ago (so it must have been a less powerful one than this). The assembly code was surprisingly clean, simple, and powerful. ARM is a great architecture. Something like BrickOS with a GNU C (...) (18 years ago, 9-Jan-06, to lugnet.robotics)
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | Re: mindstorms NXT and memory —Kyle McDonald
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | (...) I agree. When the RCX was found to have limitations in the enthusiast community I can't say I blamed LEGO that much. With the RCX they didn't know they were going to have a market with hobbyists anywhere near that size. Now we have the NXT. (...) (18 years ago, 9-Jan-06, to lugnet.robotics)
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Re: mindstorms NXT and memory —Steve Lane
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | In lugnet.robotics, Kyle McDonald wrote: If there was a $400-$500 RCX available at (...) Just to play devils advocate for a minute, but you don't know how many adults need the upgraded version. Some of the truly hardcore users hang out here but they (...) (18 years ago, 9-Jan-06, to lugnet.robotics)
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | Re: mindstorms NXT and memory —Jordan Bradford
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| | | | | | | | | | | | (...) You forget LEGO already did that with the Scout in the Robotics Discovery Set. But perhaps it was too limited for people to want to buy it. If the NXT has a memory expansion slot inside it that would satisfy quite a few people I think. (18 years ago, 10-Jan-06, to lugnet.robotics, FTX)
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| | | | | | | | | | | | Re: mindstorms NXT and memory —Brian Davis
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| | | | | | | | | | | (...) Well, there's a significant cost above and beyond the electronics here. The NXT *might* be comparable to a PDA, but tossing in 500+ precision-molded little plastic parts probably drives the cost up considerably (heck, just from buying sets I (...) (18 years ago, 9-Jan-06, to lugnet.robotics)
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | Re: mindstorms NXT and memory —Rob Antonishen
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| | | | | | | | | | | | (...) I keep hearing this (and reading in the official press releases) but having recently shopped for a cell phone, I can tell you that everyone available here (Ontario) that I can find has the bluetooth crippled to it will ONLY talk to bluetooth (...) (18 years ago, 9-Jan-06, to lugnet.robotics)
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | Re: mindstorms NXT and memory —Yann Vernier
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | (...) Ouch, that's bad. Here in Sweden I can confirm that bluetooth phones with other features are around - for instance, my own phone can sync, and others can be used to remote control toys. Apart from the Ericsson car, I found TV output and (...) (18 years ago, 9-Jan-06, to lugnet.robotics)
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | Re: mindstorms NXT and memory —Kyle McDonald
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | (...) One (Verizon) of the 2 top carrier's in the US tried to cripple the bluetooth in at least one model, and it created a large PR storm. I"m not sure whether they changed their position on that model or on future models but I havne't heard as (...) (18 years ago, 9-Jan-06, to lugnet.robotics)
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | Re: mindstorms NXT and memory —steve
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | (...) That's because you can actually catch a phone virus via bluetooth (it's not very secure). My wife's phone caught one - and it was a pain to get rid of. (...) Well, not NIL - but less likely than perhaps you might like. However, it's gonna be (...) (18 years ago, 9-Jan-06, to lugnet.robotics)
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | Re: mindstorms NXT and memory —Steve Hassenplug
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | (...) every place that talks about the NXT also talks about "Bluetooth technology that allows your robot to communicate with external devices such as mobile phones". (URL) Personally, I REALLY think controlling a NXT bot with a cellphone will be (...) (18 years ago, 10-Jan-06, to lugnet.robotics)
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Re: mindstorms NXT and memory —Jordan Bradford
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | (...) Or with a GameBoy Advance with the wireless link peripheral (uses Bluetooth). It's not a common piece of hardware, but some of the newer Pokemon games come with it. I think about 15 games support it currently. Anyway, my GBA is one thing I'll (...) (18 years ago, 10-Jan-06, to lugnet.robotics)
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Re: mindstorms NXT and memory —Andrew Cross
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | (...) That sounds pretty interesting as a GBA is a decent controller compared to celphone buttons. But, is there a programming language that covers enough celphones? This would make that project more practical for the range of impact. There is (...) (18 years ago, 11-Jan-06, to lugnet.robotics)
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Re: mindstorms NXT and memory —Philippe Hurbain
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | (...) Probably a gear reduction, similar to the RC motor: (URL) (18 years ago, 11-Jan-06, to lugnet.robotics)
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | Re: mindstorms NXT and memory —Jonathan Wilson
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| | | | | | | | | | | | (...) Blame the phone companies. (Verizon is probobly the worst offender but others are guilty too) I know of many hacks where people have re-enabled features (including such things as bluetooth address book sync and bluetooth file transfer) that (...) (18 years ago, 10-Jan-06, to lugnet.robotics)
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| | | | | | | | | | | | Re: mindstorms NXT and memory —Kevin L. Clague
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| | | | | | | | | | | (...) Well, *any* machine is harder to program at machine code level. If you mean assembly, I diagree. I spent the first 18 years of my career on IBM mainframes, and the last 5 on SPARC machines. They each have their advantages and disadvantage from (...) (18 years ago, 9-Jan-06, to lugnet.robotics)
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | Re: mindstorms NXT and memory —Yann Vernier
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | (...) That could have something to do with the fact that the x86 architecture is extremely low on registers, pretty much all of which have special functions (CX for counting, BX for addressing, AX:DX for multiplications, SI+DI for memory copying). (...) (18 years ago, 9-Jan-06, to lugnet.robotics)
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Re: mindstorms NXT and memory —Chris 'Xenon' Hanson
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | Another possibility for the grinder bunch is seeing if the onboard flash chip can be SMT desoldered and replaced with a larger capacity model with the same pinout. I'm assuming there will be various third-party OSes to run on NXT pretty quickly, so (...) (18 years ago, 9-Jan-06, to lugnet.robotics)
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | Re: mindstorms NXT and memory —Alexander Sack
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| | | | | | | | | | | | (...) Kevin, does that have to be true though? I'm wondering if a better strategy would have been to sell the NXT Core kit at a slight loss but try to make it up on expansion sets? (sort of like the game console market) Give the NXT more (...) (18 years ago, 9-Jan-06, to lugnet.robotics)
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | Re: mindstorms NXT and memory —Steve Bliss
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| | | | | | | | | | | | (...) I doubt it -- for game consoles, the computer is useless without the 'expansion sets'. For Mindstorms, most consumers will be happy with the basic product; expansion sets are add-ons, not required purchases. I don't see a way to transform (...) (18 years ago, 9-Jan-06, to lugnet.robotics)
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | Re: mindstorms NXT and memory —Alexander Sack
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| | | | | | | | | | | | (...) That's a really good point. I suspect LEGO feels that the basic, core set should cover all the bases to make access to Mindstorms/NXT easier for kids and their parents. Though there still maybe avenues in the future to offer a more advanced (...) (18 years ago, 9-Jan-06, to lugnet.robotics)
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| | | | | | | | | | | | Re: mindstorms NXT and memory —Ignacio Martinez Vazquez
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| | | | | | | | | | (...) And GPS... *drools* But the bot must be outdoors :( (18 years ago, 10-Jan-06, to lugnet.robotics)
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| | | | | | | | | | Re: mindstorms NXT and memory —Ignacio Martinez Vazquez
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| | | | | | | | | (...) Yup. For my solution, you need ugly byte operation. Not good for a 10 year old. Still, with these robots you often design the environment to suit your limitations (eg. smaller room) (18 years ago, 9-Jan-06, to lugnet.robotics)
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| | | | | | | | | | Re: mindstorms NXT and memory —Mike Walters
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| | | | | | | | (...) Where did the 128Kb number come from? First of all, whether it is standard or not, I like to use a capital "B" to indicate bytes (or spell out byte) and a small 'b' to indicate bits. So, based on the Lego NXT Faq, the NXT brick has 256KB(ytes) (...) (18 years ago, 9-Jan-06, to lugnet.robotics)
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| | | | | | | | Re: mindstorms NXT —John O'Keefe
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| | | | | | I am not very familiar with the NXT platform but as it sounds now could you possibly plug a USB Flash memory stick into the USB port (or connector) on the NXT and use it for data storage? - John (...) (18 years ago, 8-Jan-06, to lugnet.robotics)
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| | | | | | | | Re: mindstorms NXT —John Barnes
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| | | | | | | (...) Isn't there an inherent problem with this idea? If the NXT is a slave device, it is a power consumer, right? That would imply that if you connected a USB storage device, the device would not get power, since the NXT won't have been designed to (...) (18 years ago, 8-Jan-06, to lugnet.robotics)
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| | | | | | | | Re: mindstorms NXT —steve
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| | | | | | (...) As we currently understand things, the USB port is a 'slave' port - not a 'master' - so you can plug the NXT into a PC - but you can't plug things like thumb drives into the NXT because that would be plugging a 'slave' USB device into another (...) (18 years ago, 9-Jan-06, to lugnet.robotics)
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| | | | | | | | Re: mindstorms NXT —Alexander Sack
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| | | | | | (...) Right, see my other post about ARM7 and USB (I wish I knew how to link it but this web interface is killing me!). The biggest issue is one of the devices would have to implement a host constoller interface and a USB storage class driver. (...) (18 years ago, 9-Jan-06, to lugnet.robotics)
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| | | | | | | | RE: mindstorms NXT vs the Competition —Dick Swan
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| | | | | | | I'm somewhat bemused by the comments on limited memory, CPU capacity, features, etc on the new NXT brick. At $250 it fits right in the middle range of the other popular consumer hobbyist robotics kits which range in price from $100 to $500. These (...) (18 years ago, 9-Jan-06, to lugnet.robotics)
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| | | | | | | | | Re: mindstorms NXT vs the Competition —Rob Antonishen
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| | | | | | | | (...) I hadn't looked at the Scribbler prior to this post... and I am stunned at how much their programming language (Scribbler Program Maker GUI) resembles the original RIS software: (URL) I'm guessing that they designed theirs on the "success" of (...) (18 years ago, 9-Jan-06, to lugnet.robotics, FTX)
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| | | | | | | | Re: mindstorms NXT —Orion Pobursky
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| | | | | | (...) It's simple. For a message in plain text (i.e. not FTX) simply paste your link, the Lugnet web interface automatically inserts hyperlink code. -Orion (18 years ago, 9-Jan-06, to lugnet.robotics)
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| | | | | Re: mindstorms NXT —John Barnes
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| | | | | (...) and this; (URL) me ! JB (18 years ago, 7-Jan-06, to lugnet.robotics)
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| | | | | | | Re: mindstorms NXT —Chris Magno
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| | | | | | | (...) It could be they just felt sorry for you and Steve and all the flack you would/will be getting. ;) Too bad Jin Sato could not be got a hold of, He would have been a valuable asset to the MUP. Chris (18 years ago, 7-Jan-06, to lugnet.robotics)
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| | | | | | | Re: mindstorms NXT —Jordan Bradford
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| | | | | | (...) They also seem to have pulled the 2.0 kits out of the store completely. That's even more surprising. (18 years ago, 8-Jan-06, to lugnet.robotics)
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| | | | | pwering the NXT —Gyl Midroni
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| | | | | (...) I know that I am second guessing people who clearly know more than me, but what is wrong with the following idea relating to powering it. Make the RCX in two parts. One is the diplay/CPU (A). The other is the power sources (B). B plugs into A, (...) (18 years ago, 8-Jan-06, to lugnet.robotics)
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| | | | | | | Re: pwering the NXT —Brian Davis
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| | | | | | | (...) Yes, that would make sense to me. The only thing I can think of that recommends against it is use by kids. With both assemblies in one case, the kid can't loose the batteries. Consumers are used to their toys (and, for that matter, their (...) (18 years ago, 8-Jan-06, to lugnet.robotics)
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| | | | | | | | | Re: pwering the NXT —Chris Magno
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| | | | | | | | (...) We dont know if it was taken out due to cost, OR due to the number of problems it had caused there customer service dept. I recall several posts from people claiming to have fried there units because they had plugged some non-acceptable power (...) (18 years ago, 8-Jan-06, to lugnet.robotics)
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| | | | | | | | | | Re: pwering the NXT —danny staple
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| | | | | | | | (...) There is soemthing about that seems very, very likely. What they could do is a moulded, polarised connector, something that is their own, but not too hard for a real tinkerer to copy if they wanted to, and make sure the spec is well known. (...) (18 years ago, 9-Jan-06, to lugnet.robotics)
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| | | | | | | | | | Re: pwering the NXT —Chris Magno
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| | | | | | | | | (...) Oddly enough, have you seen this: (URL) way down it says that the NXT will have a: Rechargeable battery system Will the "battery system" be a preshrunk battery pack with some connector on it to plug into the NXT? Could a hacker then find that (...) (18 years ago, 10-Jan-06, to lugnet.robotics)
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| | | | | | | | | | Re: pwering the NXT —Christian Treczoks
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| | | | | | | | (...) I consider that unlikely because of the power requirements of the Motors and the NXT unit. I don't know how much the new motors pull, but the "old" motors took 250mA @ 9V under load. According to the USB specs, the port should provide 500mA @ (...) (18 years ago, 10-Jan-06, to lugnet.robotics)
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| | | | | | | Re: pwering the NXT —Christian Treczoks
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| | | | | | (...) OK. Take a NXT brick and turn it over. Have a closer look at its underside. You'll notice a curious breakout in the casing of the battery pack. It has the right size for a little coaxial power plug like the one used for the 9V trains. All it (...) (18 years ago, 10-Jan-06, to lugnet.robotics)
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| | | | | | | | Re: pwering the NXT —Brian Davis
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| | | | | | | (...) I think several hundred of us would just *love* to do that. One small problem... how did you get to? Pleeeease... (...) Well, that would be very handy. Restoring one of the number one requested items dropped from the 1.0 brick would be a good (...) (18 years ago, 10-Jan-06, to lugnet.robotics)
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| | | | | | | | | Re: pwering the NXT —Christian Treczoks
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| | | | | | | | (...) I always wanted to say that: "I could tell you, but then I would have to kill you" ;-) Yours, Christian (18 years ago, 11-Jan-06, to lugnet.robotics)
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| | | | | | | | | | Re: pwering the NXT —Steve Hassenplug
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| | | | | | | | (...) Brian, If it makes you feel any better, the information has been tracked back to it's source, and it's a long way from where you live. Steve (18 years ago, 11-Jan-06, to lugnet.robotics)
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| | | | | | | | | | NXT question: port allocation —dan miller
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| | | | | | | | Question for the in-the-know crowd -- does the NXT have 3 motor ports and 4 sensor ports, or 7 general-purpose ports? IOW, could you connect 4 motors and only 3 sensors? (18 years ago, 11-Jan-06, to lugnet.robotics)
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| | | | | | | | | | Re: NXT question: port allocation —Steve Hassenplug
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| | | | | | | | | (...) I'm sure I've read there are 3 motor ports, and 4 sensor ports. But, things may not be that black and white. Remember, each motor has a rotation sensor built in. However, the pictures do show motors connected to port A, B & C, and sensors (...) (18 years ago, 11-Jan-06, to lugnet.robotics)
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| | | | | | | | | | | Re: NXT question: port allocation —Andrew Cross
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| | | | | | | | | | (...) Amuzingly, "4" is missing from Lego's model images (which are rendered) but is there for the live teenager shots. Could it be a "special" plug for the ultrasonic sensor? I hope not. (18 years ago, 11-Jan-06, to lugnet.robotics)
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| | | | | | | | | | Re: NXT question: port allocation —Chris Magno
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| | | | | | | | Is it my poor memory, OR did the first communication from lego say that it was 3 in and 3 out, PLUS the Ultrasonic sensor. In the rendered pics of the NXT, it has output pots 1 -3 labeled, but the 4th is not. always questions, and silence from Ralph (...) (18 years ago, 11-Jan-06, to lugnet.robotics)
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| | | | | | | | | | Re: NXT question: port allocation —Steve Hassenplug
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| | | | | | | | | (...) I'm pretty sure you won't find any place that says 3in+3out. The rendered pictures do show 1 unmarked port. What about this (actual photo?): (URL) (18 years ago, 11-Jan-06, to lugnet.robotics)
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| | | | | | | | | | Re: NXT question: port allocation —David Schilling
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| | | | | | | | (...) Maybe they're too busy playing with some new robotics system or another? :-) -- David Schilling (18 years ago, 12-Jan-06, to lugnet.robotics)
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| | | | | | | | | | Re: NXT question: port allocation —Chris Magno
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| | | | | | | | (...) So, Dave. Glad to hear from you. What have you built? You too Ralph. I know you read this. :) Chris (18 years ago, 12-Jan-06, to lugnet.robotics)
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| | | | | | | | Re: pwering the NXT —Tim Byrne
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| | | | | | (...) Very interesting. Perhaps there is some plan to sell the NXT with a power adapter for the educational sets. Currently the RCXs that are with those Team Challenge Sets have the power adaptors. (It makes sense in a classroom to be able to plug (...) (18 years ago, 10-Jan-06, to lugnet.robotics)
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| | | | | | | | Re: pwering the NXT —Rob Antonishen
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| | | | | | (...) And a large portion of the current RCX in education use is as a data logger, not a mobile robotics platform. In this configuration, AC is a definite requisite. If they intend to offer a functional equivalent in the NXT (educational) then an AC (...) (18 years ago, 10-Jan-06, to lugnet.robotics)
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| | | | | | | | Re: pwering the NXT —Kevin L. Clague
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| | | | | | (...) Hopefully it will not be specifically tied to education, but merely an add-on option. Kev (18 years ago, 10-Jan-06, to lugnet.robotics)
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| | | | | | | | Re: pwering the NXT —Mark Bellis
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| | | | | | (...) The educational press release says that the educational set will have an AC adapter for its rechargeable battery system: (URL) (18 years ago, 12-Jan-06, to lugnet.robotics)
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| | | | | | | | Re: pwering the NXT —Kevin L. Clague
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| | | | | | | (...) <snip> (...) Then I hope it is also available as a simple add-on. Kev (18 years ago, 12-Jan-06, to lugnet.robotics)
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| | | | | | | | Re: pwering the NXT —Andrew Cross
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| | | | | | (...) "Rechargeable battery system" may still require take the battery out. But hopefully, we can recharge while it is in the unit. Thanks for the link. It had a "Soccer" robot and hints at redeveloping the engineering and scientific inquiry (...) (18 years ago, 12-Jan-06, to lugnet.robotics)
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| | | | | | | | Re: pwering the NXT —Chris Magno
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| | | | | | (...) Now this is an interesting link. some nice NXT pictures. and good speculation on powering the NXT (URL) (18 years ago, 13-Jan-06, to lugnet.robotics)
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| | | | | Re: mindstorms NXT —Tim Byrne
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| | | | | (...) I would like to personally thank LEGO for reaching out to the MUP members. First off, it was a brilliant move from a consumer market research standpoint. Second, I must applaud them for their choice of whom they invited to participate. I don’t (...) (18 years ago, 8-Jan-06, to lugnet.robotics, FTX)
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| | | | | Re: mindstorms NXT —John Barnes
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| | | | (...) Found this too; (URL) mention of; "a converter cable so existing LEGO robotics sensors and motors can be used with the NXT brick". JB (18 years ago, 14-Jan-06, to lugnet.robotics)
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| | | | | | Re: mindstorms NXT —Geoffrey Hyde
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| | | | | Even more interesting (and somewhat of concern) is this snippet from their FAQ page: Quote: "Exclusive to schools will accessories that allow them to use parts of their old kits with the new." WHAT?? Does that mean that the existing Mindstorms users (...) (18 years ago, 14-Jan-06, to lugnet.robotics)
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| | | | | | | Re: mindstorms NXT —Orion Pobursky
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| | | | | | (...) Probably not since most of the LEGO Education product line is available from the LEGO Education store: (URL) (18 years ago, 14-Jan-06, to lugnet.robotics)
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| | | | | | Re: mindstorms NXT —Kevin L. Clague
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| | | | (...) Wow! This is great news! Thanks for digging that up! Now I wonder if NXT has the current capabilities to drive those power-hungry RC racer motors. Kev (...) (18 years ago, 14-Jan-06, to lugnet.robotics)
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