 | | Re: Why start with Iraq? - (Re: Iraq, Dictators, and Peace)
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(...) It would probablly benefit the Iraqi people a great deal. Personally I would have expected the United Nations to get rid of Sadam 2 years ago when he had about 12,000 Kurds (an ethnic miniority in Iraq) murdered in gas chambers. (...) Oh sure (...) (23 years ago, 22-Sep-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Is this an overreaction and a violation of rights?
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In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Frank Filz writes: We MUST avoid letting paranoia destroy our freedom. (...) It's a little late to be thinking like that. Millions of dollars have been handed over for hightech security just for this purpose. Here in (...) (23 years ago, 22-Sep-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Is this an overreaction and a violation of rights?
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I was just reading this news item: (URL) think it is extremely scary that a woman has been arrested on the sole evidence of a surveillance camera, and her sister is being charged with accessory to a crime. While the incident caught on tape might (...) (23 years ago, 22-Sep-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Why start with Iraq? - (Re: Iraq, Dictators, and Peace)
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(...) Let's be real clear that such a foreign policy is likely NOT in the interest of the people of the U.S. -- far from it. By contrast, it may very well be in the interest of people like Bush, Jr. and his type. But tell ya what, Scott -- you reign (...) (23 years ago, 21-Sep-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Why start with Iraq? - (Re: Iraq, Dictators, and Peace)
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(...) If one has to start somewhere, Iraq is a pretty good place to start. Of course, one has to question Dubya's reasons (and complete lack of backing up his rhetoric with any thing like facts) for starting in the first place. (...) It's good for (...) (23 years ago, 21-Sep-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Why start with Iraq? - (Re: Iraq, Dictators, and Peace)
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(...) Which is what I wrote. I also said the United Nations should be doing it. (...) Its as good as anyplace to start. I also said EVERY dictatorship should be eradicated. Did you even read the post? -Mike Petrucelli (23 years ago, 21-Sep-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Why start with Iraq? - (Re: Iraq, Dictators, and Peace)
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(...) Why start with Iraq? Why try to overthrow democracy in Central America? Why support Musharraf in Pakistan? Why fund human rights abuses in Israel? Why make excuses for the Saudi's? Why back “democracy” in Kuwait? Why make a sponsor of (...) (23 years ago, 21-Sep-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Iraq, Dictators, and Peace
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Maybe I read you wrong...I thought you were pointing out that someone had suggested liberation, while someone else shrugged it off and I hadn't heard anything of the sort... (23 years ago, 21-Sep-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Iraq, Dictators, and Peace
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(...) need (...) can (...) Yeah, that's the problem. Wouldn't it be nice if our great grandchildren could call themselves citizens of Earth. It would be a costly endevor to say the least, but it could be done. Liberating the people and educating (...) (23 years ago, 21-Sep-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Iraq, Dictators, and Peace
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(...) Sure it's a great idea, but are we really going to make life better for them? Are we going to replace the entire government and force industry to establish a suitable minimum wage? Are we going to force the new government to spread the wealth (...) (23 years ago, 21-Sep-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Those stupid liberal judges are at it again!
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(...) So an armed citizenry is not an implied threat? (...) You are completely missing the point. When (not if) the government becomes corrupt to the point that it is no longer a democracy, it is time for the people to invoke their second amendment (...) (23 years ago, 21-Sep-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Those stupid liberal judges are at it again!
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(...) That's a reasonable objection, but I think the essential point remains regardless of my incomplete and anecdotal listing, especially remembering the fact that previous debates here have been disembowelled by pointing out that "correlation (...) (23 years ago, 21-Sep-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Iraq, Dictators, and Peace
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Lets see the fastest way to achieve World Peace would be to nuke the entire planet. The world would be a peace. The best way to acheive World Peace would be for the United Nations to systematiclly eliminate any and all non-democratic governments and (...) (23 years ago, 21-Sep-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: weasels are eating my flesh...
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I forgot about Carnivore! (see how quickly important stuff is forgotten when you're so busy trying to live your life?) Didn't they change the name to Magic Lantern? Or something like that? To tone down the voracious sounding "Carnivore"? (23 years ago, 21-Sep-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | weasels are eating my flesh...
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(...) With the technology (similar to that of) Carnivore, it could have happened already, web crawling spiders may well have already taken down the names of everyone who ever posted to this newsgroup as potential subversives. How's that for a cheery (...) (23 years ago, 21-Sep-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | American soldiers in Canada...
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I don't have a source available; I was wondering if anyone else has heard/read about American military forces joining with Canadian to "protect" the Northern coasts against terrorist infiltration. The idea worrys me. I've actually considered getting (...) (23 years ago, 21-Sep-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Those stupid liberal judges are at it again!
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(...) "here" == lugnet.off-topic.debate not merely this particular thread. Our republic is broken, at least to some extent, I gave you 3 examples of why, out of many many many more possible ones. That's completely on topic to where this thread is (...) (23 years ago, 21-Sep-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Those stupid liberal judges are at it again!
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(...) I was just thinking, this last bit is the answer to the claim that we are stick on an outdated piece of paper. If the 2nd really is not appropriate as originally intended, then lets change it. The Constitution tells us how to change it. If a (...) (23 years ago, 21-Sep-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Those stupid liberal judges are at it again!
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(...) to (...) But it's typical to assume that the factors which multiple study venues (in this case) fail to have in common are most likely trivial in their causative power when compared to a single factor that is common across the study. If a (...) (23 years ago, 20-Sep-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Those stupid liberal judges are at it again!
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(...) Sign me up for that! Darn solicitors--thank you but I already have one more credit card than I need (have a grande total of 1) I don't need any more newspaper subscriptions, I don't need my carpet cleaned, I don't need your magazine! Stop (...) (23 years ago, 20-Sep-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Those stupid liberal judges are at it again!
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In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Larry Pieniazek writes: <snip> (...) <snip> Gerrymandering? Brought up in this thread? Like h-e-double hockey sticks they have, Larry... Do a search in this *entire* thread and show me, up until this post of yours, when (...) (23 years ago, 20-Sep-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Those stupid liberal judges are at it again!
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(...) We put the Dot.Coms up against the wall! Telephone solicitors are next! Comrade Bruce Glorious Democratic Republic of Socialistic Libertarian Greens Where Everyone is Equal Except for Those of Us Who Drive Really Big German Cars and have T10 (...) (23 years ago, 20-Sep-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Those stupid liberal judges are at it again!
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(...) Larry is absolutely right on this. The system is set up to make it difficult for marginal parties to grow. Essentially, if you wish to gain any power, you need to subvert one of the existing parties through infilteration. The question is (...) (23 years ago, 20-Sep-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Those stupid liberal judges are at it again!
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(...) Actually, German Americans were interred also, here's one quick link: (URL) here's one about Italian internment: (URL) the way, these were the 1st links Google showed for +german +internment and +italian +internment I haven't read these sites (...) (23 years ago, 20-Sep-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Those stupid liberal judges are at it again!
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In lugnet.off-topic.debate, David Koudys writes: <snip> (...) Holy Hannah! I better start doing these things by e-mail instead of thru the web interface--sooo many type-o's in my last reply. My bad. Sorry 'bout that. I'll endeavour to proofread (...) (23 years ago, 20-Sep-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Those stupid liberal judges are at it again!
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(...) Well, it was a minor but--semantics--irrelevant to the discussion at hand. An *opinion*, a voice, a discourse is *protected* by the 1st. If I don't like your opinion--my tough cookies, just as if you don't like mine--your tough cookies. (...) (...) (23 years ago, 20-Sep-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Those stupid liberal judges are at it again!
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(...) It was the fact that they did not have guns that gave them power. If they had guns, some guy like bush would have called them "terrorists". (...) Is the Crucible not about the government/capitalist induced hysteria which led to McCarthy being (...) (23 years ago, 20-Sep-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Those stupid liberal judges are at it again!
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(...) One political science course? Well then, yes. (...) See, this is the part that just seems incredibly myopic if not just plain ignorant to anyone with any sense of world history and of U.S. history in particular. Y'know, those guys in the (...) (23 years ago, 20-Sep-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | for patriotism is indeed a double-edged sword (was Re: Those stupid liberal judges are at it again!)
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(...) Sorry, I did not mean to imply life is perfect for these groups - it is not anywhere near it. However, it has improved over the last 25 years in my view. (...) Yes. (...) I agree. I read this powerful quote in a Guardian letter today: "Beware (...) (23 years ago, 20-Sep-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Those stupid liberal judges are at it again!
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(...) Who can say? These guys are all ultimately poll-driven centrists -- it's just that the Bushes are also pointedly oil-obsessed, war-gods. (...) Hmmm, this is all very debatable. The lynching isn't widespread or performed without fear of (...) (23 years ago, 20-Sep-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Those stupid liberal judges are at it again!
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(...) First, it's your *elected* gov't. Due to screwups that people are trying to sweep under the carpet, and others are trying to *not* sweep under the carpet... is a wee bit of a fiasco. If every Florida citizen petitioned to have a revote, (...) (23 years ago, 20-Sep-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Those stupid liberal judges are at it again!
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(...) You're very good at the off-handed put-down aren't you--'doesn't have an informed opinion'? I think I'm just as informed as you. I took my poli-sci courses in university (tho a long time ago to be sure) and I read the articles that people post (...) (23 years ago, 20-Sep-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Those stupid liberal judges are at it again!
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(...) Are you saying that the Democrats would have made the same mistakes as the Republicans over the past 12 months and before? I'm yet to be convinced of that. Bush is governing by paranoia, I doubt AG would have done the same. (...) That is an (...) (23 years ago, 20-Sep-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Those stupid liberal judges are at it again!
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(...) I'll tell you what... if you want to explain a process, explain how it is that the US has two parties in power which are more similar than they are different, and which do everything they can to ensure that no other party or set of ideas can (...) (23 years ago, 20-Sep-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Those stupid liberal judges are at it again!
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(...) I fear you are misrepresenting my views. I can't think of any law that I view as "immoral", but I can list a few that I view as being "unjust" to me. However, I share this island with a lot of other people, and I am polite enough to respect (...) (23 years ago, 20-Sep-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Those stupid liberal judges are at it again!
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(...) Okay, I need to remember this: the reason Koudys doesn't have an informed opinion about U.S. issues is because he isn't an interested party. David, I would kindly ask you to stop discussing what you don't know and doesn't matter to you anyway. (...) (23 years ago, 20-Sep-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Those stupid liberal judges are at it again!
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(...) I think the "being necessary to the security of a free state" part covers that. [...] (...) As long as democratic institutions are still working then it isn't time for a revolution. But when the right to vote gets taken away (e.g. an election (...) (23 years ago, 20-Sep-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Those stupid liberal judges are at it again!
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(...) You're right. One should try and change things from within the system. This is why those who don't agree with the current government and truly care about our nation are trying to work within the system. The purpose of enabling the free (...) (23 years ago, 20-Sep-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Those stupid liberal judges are at it again!
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(...) It should be noted that the 2nd amendment itself in no way addresses that its purpose is for the overthrow of the government or as a hedge against tyranny. (...) The "well-regulated militia" that opted to go its own way was the Confederate (...) (23 years ago, 20-Sep-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Those stupid liberal judges are at it again!
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(...) It depends what you mean by "fight". If it means oppose through force of arms, then you are correct. Obviously. If you mean only an armed population can rid themselves of a totalitarian regime, then I think you are wrong. Look at the (...) (23 years ago, 20-Sep-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Those stupid liberal judges are at it again!
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(...) I don't have a lot to contribute to this debate, but this idea is invariably introduced at some point, and it needs careful examination. The problem with the statistic you've cited is that it is *very* difficult to establish a causative (...) (23 years ago, 20-Sep-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Those stupid liberal judges are at it again!
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(...) The United States is a democratic republic. Fine, no problem--never said it wasn't--I said the way to get things changed is thru democracy, the process in which the people *vote*. (...) "Government is not reason and it is not eloquence. It is (...) (23 years ago, 20-Sep-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Those stupid liberal judges are at it again!
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(...) It's a Democratic Republic. There is a difference. (...) This is such a lame statement it barely merits response, I just wanted to call it to your attention. It's just as bad as: "America: love it or leave it." Too lame. (...) This is a fairly (...) (23 years ago, 20-Sep-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Those stupid liberal judges are at it again!
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(...) Like the Taliban controlled Afganistan for example. Never mind that the whole point of the MILITARY and POLICE carring guns openly was to make sure that the citizens were unarmed and in fear for their lives. There is a reason that the 3 (...) (23 years ago, 20-Sep-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Those stupid liberal judges are at it again!
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(...) And in a fledging new democratic country, I can see why you would need that kind of ammendment. However, 1776 was a very long time ago. It's 2002. Your country has grown up into democracy and found out that--well looky that--it works without (...) (23 years ago, 20-Sep-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Those stupid liberal judges are at it again!
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(...) Quoteth Dave (...) and (...) and so many other locations--which part in my posting makes you think that *I* think the 2nd was written less than 20 years ago. If there's someone being misrepresented in this thread, I'm your guy. (...) And (...) (23 years ago, 20-Sep-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Those stupid liberal judges are at it again!
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Let me say it again, but more concisely: Only an armed population can fight back against a totalitarian regime. The 2nd amendment is meant to allow the population to be armed for just this reason. Yes, if democracy failed and a totalitarian regime (...) (23 years ago, 20-Sep-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Those stupid liberal judges are at it again!
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David: What William has stated is more or less the reasoning behind the 2nd Amendment, but it also goes back to feudal times. Freemen bear arms -- it's a right and a responsibility. Read "The Federalist Papers". If you disagree, fine. Just stop (...) (23 years ago, 20-Sep-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Those stupid liberal judges are at it again!
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(...) If the US gov't were to break down, laws are irrelevant, and we're back to... who said it, Lock, Hobbes? can't remember polisci 101 (such a long time ago)...'natural law' or, as I like to think of it, 'He who has the biggest stick, rules' The (...) (23 years ago, 19-Sep-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Those stupid liberal judges are at it again!
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(...) :) (...) Show me. Show me how people dying needlessly is a good thing. Show me how a revolution would make the United States of America better right now. Show me how not working within the system that you have set up down there, a system, I (...) (23 years ago, 19-Sep-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Those stupid liberal judges are at it again!
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(...) Huh? Guns are not drugs. Drugs are only one aspect to crime. And crime has nothing to do with freedom. Do you think banning guns will make criminals turn in their weapons? No way. There will always be some guns in the country, and there's (...) (23 years ago, 19-Sep-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Those stupid liberal judges are at it again!
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(...) The US Constitution is designed to ensure a reasonably fair government that doesn't have too much power over the people. But if that were to break down, the 2nd Amendment is there to provide the people a last- ditch method of regaining the (...) (23 years ago, 19-Sep-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Those stupid liberal judges are at it again!
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(...) Nowhere in my postings did I *ever* imply that. I will reiterate--it is *not* because of the guns the police officers have, but because it's the law, that I obey the law. You are putting the emphasis on the wrong part of the equation. I don't (...) (23 years ago, 19-Sep-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Those stupid liberal judges are at it again!
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(...) "The rules have changed. True power is held by the person who possesses the largest bookshelf, not gun cabinet or wallet." (...) Have you been watching Fox News again? ;) The average American is seven times more likely to be murdered than (...) (23 years ago, 19-Sep-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Those stupid liberal judges are at it again!
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In lugnet.off-topic.debate, David Koudys writes: <snip> (...) <snip> *cough* POA *cough* Baah--stupid acronyms! AFAIC, and IMHO, who needs 'em! Just causes lots of snafu's! ;) Dave K (23 years ago, 19-Sep-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Those stupid liberal judges are at it again!
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(...) Yup. A very valuable one. (...) I'm guessing you're being sarcastic, but if not, then we agree. The pinnacle of civilization _is_ the understanding the the power (all of it...the ultimate power of military projection as well as the power of (...) (23 years ago, 19-Sep-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Those stupid liberal judges are at it again!
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(...) The kind who is an authority apologist. The same kind as Scott Arthur when he says the very same thing. I don't care how much you want to dress it up; what you are implying is that you would follow laws that demand unjust or immoral action (...) (23 years ago, 19-Sep-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Averages and Capitalism (was Re: Those stupid liberal judges are at it again!)
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In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Bruce Schlickbernd writes: <snip> (...) Again, in a perect world, this would work, but, as todays newspaper headlines tell us, and as numbers are crunched, we see the gulf between the richest of us and the poorest of us (...) (23 years ago, 19-Sep-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Those stupid liberal judges are at it again!
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(...) Quoteth Dave K (quoting dictionary): goon: a thug hired to commit acts of violence or intimidation (usually with a gun) The last time the NRA won some sort of whatever, there was numerous newsclips of Heston holding up a gun, saying 'outta my (...) (23 years ago, 19-Sep-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Those stupid liberal judges are at it again!
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(...) What exactly does this mean? I happen to think that owning, knowing how to operate, and keeping weapons in good functioning order is a predicate to a free society -- yes, including and particularly, guns. It may be trite but: freemen bear (...) (23 years ago, 19-Sep-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Those stupid liberal judges are at it again!
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(...) My attitude makes me sound like a goon? What kind of goon? A gun toting yahoo goon? You're right--there's no way to say this nicely--anyone who believes the brainless rhetoric that the NRA and Heston spout out of their mouths--'Outta my cold (...) (23 years ago, 19-Sep-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Those stupid liberal judges are at it again!
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(...) Obeying the law as a general policy doesn't preclude civil disobedience to unjust laws. It needn't be all-or-nothing. (...) For me it's not the guns so much as the ticket books and handcuffs. :-) Actually, I obey most laws just because they (...) (23 years ago, 18-Sep-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Tribute to Sept 11, 2001
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(...) I did contemplate it, however traffic in .oregon looked a little low. As it turned out, our 5 days in Oregon were pretty well planned out for us - with group visits to OMSI, the Zoo(!), a jet boat ride on the Willamette River, wine tasting, (...) (23 years ago, 18-Sep-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Averages and Capitalism (was Re: Those stupid liberal judges are at it again!)
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(...) Well, *obviously* they were savages. Actually, that factoid rings a bell, but I can't place it; I'm likewise interested in a confirmation. Dave! (23 years ago, 18-Sep-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Averages and Capitalism (was Re: Those stupid liberal judges are at it again!)
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I actually think that everything Bruce wrote was spot on. Here's a couple snipets about which I want to comment. (...) Yup. Communal living is cool. It has been claimed to me that 40,000 Hopi lived under a single socialist government. Anyone know (...) (23 years ago, 18-Sep-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Those stupid liberal judges are at it again!
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(...) No he doesn't! He's a namby pamby anti-gun leftist. :-) (...) Yes it is. (...) What if the system doesn't allow reform? (...) The US is founded on the notion that recurring revolutions _will_ be needed. And I don't see how a revolution (...) (23 years ago, 18-Sep-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Those stupid liberal judges are at it again!
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(...) Since the notion of "God" is absurd why should he or anyone be encouraged to speak of it at all? And how can you claim that God isn't an artifact of a particular religion? Does God mean Hera and Zeus? (...) We haven't been blessed. The very (...) (23 years ago, 17-Sep-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Those stupid liberal judges are at it again!
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(...) You are plainly false. The state does operate essentially mandatory concentration camps for children in which statist and religious propaganda are administered to the inmates. Technically those inmates do have the right to not participate in (...) (23 years ago, 17-Sep-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Those stupid liberal judges are at it again!
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(...) No! Mike is exactly right. (...) I can't say this nicely, so I'll just say it. That attitude makes you sound like a goon. So things are made right merely by being law? Like when it was legal to own people of recent African decent? When my (...) (23 years ago, 17-Sep-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: TJ acknowledged a Creator in DoI (was: Re: Those stupid liberal judges are at it again!
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(...) No, but it helps ;-) --Bill. (23 years ago, 17-Sep-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Tribute to Sept 11, 2001
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(...) You were in Portland and didn't look any of us up? Frank (Living in Portland now) (23 years ago, 16-Sep-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Prey for Salivation!
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(URL) what you like about the Libertarian party, but they won't endorse spitters! Kidding aside, I applaud their censure of this boor as a means of demonstrating that The Party of Principle does not endorse personal assault as a means of political (...) (23 years ago, 16-Sep-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Tribute to Sept 11, 2001
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(...) It's exactly what the American Public wants. You have to remember that the Americans you are used to debating on Lugnet have, on the average, an IQ about fifty points higher than that of the general American Public (and about 70 points higher (...) (23 years ago, 16-Sep-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Tribute to Sept 11, 2001
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I spent the last week or so working in NW USA. During my time there I spent some time with a few of the people I met mulling over the events of the previous year, and what the future may hold. On the morning of Sept 11 I took time out to attend a (...) (23 years ago, 16-Sep-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Poll tax! (was: Those stupid liberal judges are at it again!)
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(...) The real UK Poll tax was a very long time ago - perhaps 100's of years ago(?). In the 80's Thatcher introduced a tax for which she intended to use the electoral role to set up the database of payees - this became known as the “poll tax” as (...) (23 years ago, 16-Sep-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Averages and Capitalism (was Re: Those stupid liberal judges are at it again!)
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(...) Indeed, but I'm not comparing the US to China, nor the US or China to a world average - I'm merely comparing people to the average within their own system. My statment was "as one gets closer and closer to a pure capitalist system, there are (...) (23 years ago, 16-Sep-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: TJ acknowledged a Creator in DoI (was: Re: Those stupid liberal judges are at it again!
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(...) LOL! Well obviously that was a typo. Funny none the less. (...) we (...) Contrary to popular belief, believing in God does not automatically make a person incapable of seeing things from other perspectives. -Mike Petrucelli (23 years ago, 16-Sep-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: A Message of Peace
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VICTIMS OF THE FUTURE (Gary Moore/Neil Carter/Ian Paice/Neil Murray) "Searching each day for the answers, watching our hopes disappear. Set on a course for disaster, living our lives in fear. Our leaders leave us in confusion. For them there's only (...) (23 years ago, 15-Sep-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: TJ acknowledged a Creator in DoI (was: Re: Those stupid liberal judges are at it again!
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(...) "at least 1" is logically equivalent to "2", in this context anyway. :-) (23 years ago, 15-Sep-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: TJ acknowledged a Creator in DoI (was: Re: Those stupid liberal judges are at it again!
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(...) *cough* 2 Christians *cough*... Dave K (23 years ago, 15-Sep-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: TJ acknowledged a Creator in DoI (was: Re: Those stupid liberal judges are at it again!
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(...) Watch out... Mike has judgement with a capital J! :-) (...) Yes, well said. Glad to see at least one christian gets it. Thank you. (23 years ago, 15-Sep-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: TJ acknowledged a Creator in DoI (was: Re: Those stupid liberal judges are at it again!
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(...) I am only responding to this one part because after reading Larry's reply it occurred to me that this part is intended as a kind of snare -- frankly, a rather lame one at that. I am tolerant of others' views unconditionally -- that is to say (...) (23 years ago, 15-Sep-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: TJ acknowledged a Creator in DoI (was: Re: Those stupid liberal judges are at it again!
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(...) Mine is. My respect for your right to swing your fist around stops just short of my nose, as the old saying goes. Put another way, I can tolerate anything except intolerance. ++Lar (23 years ago, 15-Sep-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: TJ acknowledged a Creator in DoI (was: Re: Those stupid liberal judges are at it again!
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Despite my better Judgement I am going to get sucked into this debate. (If only to prove to Dave! that someone who belives God created the universe is capable of rational thought.) (...) First off John, I want to make it perfectly clear that I (...) (23 years ago, 15-Sep-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Tribute to Sept 11, 2001
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Many thanks for viewing our work. Always remember and never forget what happened on September 11, 2001! ACPin & Sons (...) (23 years ago, 14-Sep-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: TJ acknowledged a Creator in DoI (was: Re: Those stupid liberal judges are at it again!
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(...) What exactly do you mean by that? That all of *yours* are indeed *fact*? The FACT is that the POA stands-- defending it one way or the other is opinion. But I am willing to drop the whole issue until it is decided by the SC. But I know that if (...) (23 years ago, 14-Sep-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: TJ acknowledged a Creator in DoI (was: Re: Those stupid liberal judges are at it again!
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(...) I don't like to see John stating his own opinions as facts either, esp. when much of what he has to say is contrary to the facts as understood and accepted by the rest of us. The Constitution trumps all other laws. Even the preamble is not (...) (23 years ago, 13-Sep-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: TJ acknowledged a Creator in DoI (was: Re: Those stupid liberal judges are at it again!
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(...) To no avail, apparently. Your inability to reason is invulnerable. (...) What do you want to hear, John? That "their Creator" should be stripped frm the Declaration of Independence? Fine, I certainly support that. As Dave K has correctly (...) (23 years ago, 13-Sep-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: TJ acknowledged a Creator in DoI (was: Re: Those stupid liberal judges are at it again!
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(...) Gee, Dave! we simpletons shur 'preshiate when you smart folk done make it easy-like fer us to understand;-) (...) "Congress shall pass no laws respecting religion or the free exercise thereof;..." What do you mean by "issue any declaration"? (...) (23 years ago, 13-Sep-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Averages and Capitalism (was Re: Those stupid liberal judges are at it again!)
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(...) I don't accept that as a given. Too often pure socialist countries started off way down the ladder anyway, and are further weighted down by being dictatorships. (...) I think it is easier for socialists to take over capitalist countries with (...) (23 years ago, 13-Sep-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Averages and Capitalism (was Re: Those stupid liberal judges are at it again!)
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(...) A socialist gov't is more prone to being victimized by a dictatorship or ruling class because a significantly larger percentage of the power in the system rests with the government. In a capitalist system the would-be dictators become CEOs (...) (23 years ago, 13-Sep-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Those stupid liberal judges are at it again!
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(...) No. A car with a flat is going to eventually crash (not work). Governments with a "flat" would eventually fail. Better to use a clogged fuel injector analogy, where the performance is impaired, but leaving the car still working. (...) The next (...) (23 years ago, 13-Sep-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Averages and Capitalism (was Re: Those stupid liberal judges are at it again!)
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(...) Sorry, in what way is redistribution "fair"? (...) This is the same old argument and the refutation is simple. NOT everyone has to do good or be charitable. Merely enough people to take care of the problem. We have empirical evidence that is (...) (23 years ago, 13-Sep-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Averages and Capitalism (was Re: Those stupid liberal judges are at it again!)
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(...) And I would tend to concur. I mean, if I'm going to be fed and housed, and really not have to do anything to 'earn' it, why would I work? In the 'perfect' socialism, everybody works and then everything that they made gets gathered up and (...) (23 years ago, 13-Sep-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Averages and Capitalism (was Re: Those stupid liberal judges are at it again!)
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(...) Ok. Now say Sweeden... it's not below the US standards. And it's just as much socialist as it is capitalist. (...) That's absurd. Was there at any point in history a nation which *democratically* chose socialism, and later had a socialist (...) (23 years ago, 13-Sep-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Averages and Capitalism (was Re: Those stupid liberal judges are at it again!)
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(...) That's not entirely accurate, but even if it was, it's not a good metric. The average standard of living in the US is significantly higher than, say, China. I don't tend to agree with Larry on political ideals, but as a goverment moves closer (...) (23 years ago, 13-Sep-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Averages and Capitalism (was Re: Those stupid liberal judges are at it again!)
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In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Larry Pieniazek writes: <snip> (...) I'd generally accept that ;-). But in accepting that, I have to accept that, as one gets closer and closer to a pure capitalist system, there are more and more people who are worse off (...) (23 years ago, 13-Sep-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Poll tax! (was: Those stupid liberal judges are at it again!)
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(...) No, we currently do not. That's the UK I think(1). I was talking about under an idealised constitution if I got to write it. 1 - or at least I recall that there was some talk of introducing same. Note that a "poll tax" was used as a repressive (...) (23 years ago, 13-Sep-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Poll tax! (was: Those stupid liberal judges are at it again!)
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In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Larry Pieniazek writes: (snipped) (...) ! You have to pay a tax TO VOTE???!!! :-O Or did I misinterpret? (...) Pedro (23 years ago, 13-Sep-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Those stupid liberal judges are at it again!
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(...) This I think is the crux so I snipped the rest. If a car has a flat tire, but the driver is driving it down the road because the other three tires are OK, is the car "working"? One could argue that it is. After all, the car is moving in the (...) (23 years ago, 13-Sep-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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