Subject:
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Re: Those stupid liberal judges are at it again!
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Newsgroups:
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lugnet.off-topic.debate
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Date:
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Fri, 20 Sep 2002 04:19:07 GMT
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Viewed:
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1278 times
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In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Richard Marchetti writes:
> In lugnet.off-topic.debate, David Koudys writes:
> > > K, if you wish to misinterpret the 'if a law is unjust there are ways to
> > > work within the system to get rid of said law' go ahead. It comes with the
> > > territory of... anyone... anyone--right--a Democracy.
>
> It's a Democratic Republic. There is a difference.
The United States is a democratic republic. Fine, no problem--never said it
wasn't--I said the way to get things changed is thru democracy, the process
in which the people *vote*.
>
> > If you don't like this democratic process, well there are
> > plenty of non-democratic countries you can move to, and they prob'ly like
> > guns as much as you do--I think lots of 'em even walk around with guns
> > openly.
>
> This is such a lame statement it barely merits response, I just wanted to
> call it to your attention. It's just as bad as: "America: love it or leave it."
>
> Too lame.
>
> > Again, we are in a society which elects its government. We are its master,
> > as well as its servants--if we don't like our masters, we can vote 'em out
> > of office. End of story.
>
> This is a fairly delusional statement.
"Government is not reason and it is not eloquence. It is force! Like fire it
is a dangerous servant and a fearful master." -- George Washington
I'm just using the same word choice and the same concept as your first
president--maybe he was delusional. I'll paraphrase it and try to use my
own words--we elect the people we want to run the country for a while. We,
as the people, use the power of democracy by voting--we hold the power.
Then we say to our representatives (at least he ones who won the election),
'Yeah, we're giving you the power to run our nation for a while, and if we
don't like how you're doing it, then we'll kick your heinies out of office
the next election.' Shall I try to explain the democratic process in a way
that's simpler for you to understand?
> Was Bush, Jr. really elected
> president legally? I have VERY STRONG doubts about this
As do I. You think that Florida will have this fiasco the next time? You
think that there aren't many people out there right now, overhauling the
system so this type of issue *doesn't* happen again? It's not a perfect
system, but look, it works and it can improve itself--the people want to
improve it, not overthrow it at the least provocation.
> -- there were way
> too many irregularities in the Florida election process that were not well
> covered by the American Press. Check out BBC coverage instead. The Supreme
> Court thing reeks as badly as did the Dredd Scott decision. Stop acting
> like the U.S. is a well-oiled machine in need of no repair.
Answered above, and in the last dozen posts of mine in which I state that
*if* there's a problem, there are ways of working in the system to rectify
the problems. Not once did I *ever* say that the system is perfect, that it
needs no repair, that it's smooth and without issue. *If* a law is unjust,
we can work thru the system to get the law overturned. I'll just say that
once more just in case you haven't read one of the first dozen or so times
I've said it. Stop misrepresenting me. Stop acting like I said something
when it's crystal clear that I didn't.
> Plus, let's say Bush, Jr. was elected legitimately (just for kicks because I
> don't believe that for one second): what do a multi-billionaire oil baron
> and you have in common? Probably nothing. THIS GUY is your representative?
> That's too stupid for words. Since 911 was plotted, financed, and carried
> out largely by Saudi Arabians -- why aren't they at the top of the
> ****-list? Can you say oil?
Again, I know the issues. I for one do not appreciate Dubya. I think I
said that a long time ago somewhere in another debate. For me, Bubba
(Tubby) would have been a wonderful president for you to have at this time
of much needed leadership. Instead you have a rich oil dude that wants to
impress his daddy by going to war by any means necessary. Trust me, up here
in Canada we're getting the news that's not necessarily slanted by
'Americanism' a la CNN.
>
> In terms of elections and voting options, we are very near total collapse.
Then work to change it. I don't think that the other states had too many
problems so I'm sure the chicken little "total collapse" is just your
euphimism for saying you didn't get what you wanted. Run for a seat if you
don't like your voting options. As my pappy would say, put your money where
your mouth is--you sure talk a good line but, besides having a piece of
metal sitting in a (hopefully locked) drawer isn't cutting it.
>
> > And if we have a stong and healthy tree of liberty, tyrants can't happen,
> > therefore no need for the blood of patriots to be spilled.--David Koudys to
> > LUGNET, not so private letter.
>
> This is too delusional for words -- this is exactly the kind of complacency
> that everyone in our republic should fear as if it were the black plague.
Once again I was using Jeffersons words and concepts to make a point. If
something needs to be fixed, fix it--don't shoot it. It;s like if your car
gets a flat--by the manner in which you express your views, we should shoot
the car and get a new one--have some sort of revolution. I'm advocating
that, well, yes the car has a flat, yes it needs to be fixed, but, lo and
behold, if we just put a new tire on it, we can continue on our journey.
Heck, we just have to fix the hole and we may be able to continue on.
Make it work. Advocate fixing the problems, not overturing the entire
system 'cause you don't like who's representing *you*--your fellow person
wanted him there, and if there was an issue with Florida, make sure that
issue doesn't happen again the next election--fix the problem, not shoot the
system. Am I making myself clear?
>
> Where have you been during the last year? Things have gone from bad to
> worse. Where does the Constitution support a "shadow govt." Wake up!
I'm awake and thanking God I'm Canadian each and every time Dubya's on TV.
Of course the flip side is I cringe every time Jean opens his mouth... but
that's neither here nor there.
But about the shadow gov't and the new 'laws' that are being forced thru (as
Larry posted a few weeks back)... yeah, ouch with that. Me thinks that the
Supreme court can overturn them 'cause they'll be found 'unconstitutional'.
We shall see if the system works as I surmise it will. Now convice Dubya
not to go to war--that's a more difficult issue.
> I am out of here. This isn't worth anyone's time, as usual. I just wanted
> to back up William.
In my humble opinion, that's a cop out--'not worth anyone's time...'
'Here's my little tirade rebuttal but it's not worth anyones time to read my
opponents reply'... It was worth your time to read and reply, but now it
isn't worth anyone elses once your done your side? It's cowardly to say
something and then leave. 'Ring the bell and run...' is what some people
call it.
In 2002, 200+ years after the writing of the constitution, it is the
military that fights for your right to freedom in the world abroad, and it
is the purpose of the police to do the same for the country in which you
live. The freedom that you enjoy is maintained thru these well-regulated
militia units. It has *nothing* to do with the fact that you have a gun in
your house. Your gun isn't protecting *anything* at all, except your own
personal private property (if that 'cause y'know, being locked in a drawer
is really going to deter thieves who want to come and take your property.)
30000+ of your fellow citizens lost their lives last year. Was it worth the
price of having your gun in a locked drawer in your house? Yes you can say
'well the thieves can always get guns on the black market' Well, where do
these guns come from--a thief breaks into Richards house, finds the gun and
steals it--then sells it--Hmmm... I wonder where the guns on the black
market come from. And no, I'm not naive enuf to think that all black market
guns come from robberies in gun owners homes, but a fair number of them
might. And if the stores can't sell guns, then the manufacturers aren't
making guns--and if the manufacturers aren't making guns, then no shipments
of guns can be hijacked ot sell on the black markets... Work out the
numbers--look at the countries such as Sweden, Norway, Britain and oh,
Canada, and see that, well they have gun laws and, wow, far fewer of their
people get shot in the process of living their lives every year.
>
> -- Hop-Frog
But thanks for coming out and partaking in the debate until now. It was
appreciated.
Dave K.
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Message has 3 Replies:
 | | Re: Those stupid liberal judges are at it again!
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| (...) Okay, I need to remember this: the reason Koudys doesn't have an informed opinion about U.S. issues is because he isn't an interested party. David, I would kindly ask you to stop discussing what you don't know and doesn't matter to you anyway. (...) (22 years ago, 20-Sep-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
| | | Re: Those stupid liberal judges are at it again!
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| (...) I'll tell you what... if you want to explain a process, explain how it is that the US has two parties in power which are more similar than they are different, and which do everything they can to ensure that no other party or set of ideas can (...) (22 years ago, 20-Sep-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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Message is in Reply To:
| | Re: Those stupid liberal judges are at it again!
|
| (...) It's a Democratic Republic. There is a difference. (...) This is such a lame statement it barely merits response, I just wanted to call it to your attention. It's just as bad as: "America: love it or leave it." Too lame. (...) This is a fairly (...) (22 years ago, 20-Sep-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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