 | | Re: A small rant...
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(...) Oops. (...) Foreign agency? Never heard a terrorist group called that before (you learn something everyday indeed). I did forget about the military/civilian distinction though, so 9-11 is a much greater tragedy in that respect. -Stefan- (21 years ago, 18-Jul-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Followup (was Re: Guerrilla Warfare etc.)
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(...) Pentagon retaliates against GIs who spoke out on TV (URL) "It was the end of the world," said one officer Thursday. "It went all the way up to President Bush and back down again on top of us. At least six of us here will lose our careers." (...) (21 years ago, 18-Jul-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: Wait'll Ashcroft gets hold of this!
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(...) lawsuit for killing a person that was allergic to the medication you gave him. "Hey, the database said penicillin was okay. How were we to know he was extremely allergic to it?" -- Hop-Frog (21 years ago, 18-Jul-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Wait'll Ashcroft gets hold of this!
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(URL) this takes hold within our borders, I suppose we can expect that anyone who chooses not to receive the chip will be aiding the terrorists. In other news: (URL)those who want to send a message to President Bush must now navigate as many (...) (...) (21 years ago, 18-Jul-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: The Best of Backpedalling-next on Fox!
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(...) Actually, "we" have already been proven wrong. Rumsfeld pretty much guaranteed us that the WoMD were stockpiled in and around Tikrit and Baghdad, and these have been shown to be false. Honestly, this is the best part in my opinion: (...) Which (...) (21 years ago, 18-Jul-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: A small rant...
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(...) She! And if she hears you call her a he, she'll probably stomp your butt! (...) Fair enough. Let me re-characterize it as the worst tragedy inflicted on US soil by a foreign agency. We have yet to see how many lives are lost in its wake, and (...) (21 years ago, 18-Jul-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | The Best of Backpedalling-next on Fox!
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From the "this-guy's-a-moron" dept. (URL) won't be proven wrong," Bush said. "I believe that we will find the truth. And the truth is he was developing a program for weapons of mass destruction." " The "truth" before the war-- "We know SH has WoMD, (...) (21 years ago, 18-Jul-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: A small rant...
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Hmm...Very well put. -Stefan- (21 years ago, 18-Jul-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Newsbits: The Revenge!
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A White House Smear (URL) Did senior Bush officials blow the cover of a US intelligence officer working covertly in a field of vital importance to national security--and break the law--in order to strike at a Bush administration critic and (...) (21 years ago, 18-Jul-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: Motive
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That's right, I'm back! The frogman that never sleeps! Anyway, I saw this on Slashdot and couldn't help but be impressed (it's somewhere in there, down about two-thirds of the way from the bottom): (URL) But it seems we are heading into two (...) (21 years ago, 18-Jul-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: A small rant...
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In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Stefan Garcia wrote: ¦ The world has hated and distrusted Americans for a lot longer than 2 years. I disagree with you here. The world doesn't necessarily "hate" the US, and even the distrust you mention is not universal. (...) (21 years ago, 18-Jul-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: A small rant...
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(...) Let's talk about the plusses of socialism. Let's talk about the minuses of capitalism. Let's talk about the problems with Constitutionalism Let's talk about the 'best democracy that money can buy'. (...) Dave K (21 years ago, 18-Jul-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: A small rant...
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(...) Yeah, that's always been a bit confusing. Americans don't like others, the country is built on the backs of those "others" that came here...etc. (...) See above. Americans are xenophobic. Especially now. I could attribute that to the majority (...) (21 years ago, 18-Jul-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: A small rant...
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(...) LOL maybe we need lugnet.off-topic.rant...... ROSCO (21 years ago, 18-Jul-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: A small rant...
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(...) Glad to be here! :^p (...) It was necessary to protect the chain of command, remember. They didn't know if there'd be a follow-up attack of some sort. (...) The world has hated and distrusted Americans for a lot longer than 2 years. (...) You (...) (21 years ago, 18-Jul-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: A small rant...
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Well duh it's colonialism. :^p As for the other big business/oil money/rigged election stuff, I'm keeping my nose out of that. I don't know enough about it to make an educated comment. -Stefan- (21 years ago, 18-Jul-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: A small rant...
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(...) Most country songs are plain-spoken but he has a point about at least commitment to an effort. (...) It goes a bit too extreme for my tastes in some areas, but definitely a good and pointful song. Ah, the golden age of railroads. A simpler (...) (21 years ago, 17-Jul-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: A small rant...
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(...) Why make it a game? Just look at the numbers. Which country has the most people trying to get to her shores? (...) Xenophobic views of the rest of the world???? Let's talk about your skewed perception of the US first! JOHN (21 years ago, 17-Jul-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: A small rant...
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(...) Have you seen how your version of 'democracy' is doing right now? Let's play a game--let's ask people around the world whether they want to be a insert their country here or an American. That would be a poll I'd love to see. Riots in the (...) (21 years ago, 17-Jul-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Further examples of the Liberal Media
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Very quitely, House Republicans have defeated a call for an independent investigation of the 9/11. Strangely, I can't find anything on CNN.com, FoxNews.com, or NYTimes.com. As Hop-Frog has pointed out, Whitewater took over $100 million to find out (...) (21 years ago, 17-Jul-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: A small rant...
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(...) Richard had made this point a while ago elsewhere and I admit that its truth gave me pause. I still think that liberating the Iraqis was a morally good thing to do, but I agree that we cannot force them to accept Freedom and Democracy. It is (...) (21 years ago, 17-Jul-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: A small rant...
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(...) I'm getting exactly what I expected: we rolled over Saddam's army in record time with stunningly little losses, but now the venture is increasingly looked on as neo-colonialism (oh hey, let's siphon off a little of that oil because we are due (...) (21 years ago, 17-Jul-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: A small rant...
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(...) Here for ya Hoppy! Dave K (21 years ago, 17-Jul-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: A small rant...
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Kooties and Dave! save me so much trouble sometimes. What swell guys! -- Hop-Frog (21 years ago, 17-Jul-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: A small rant...
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(...) To reply (again...) From the Democratic Underground website (partisan, I know, but if the points are valid, who cares where the source is from?) " For some time, many on the Left have been using a working hypothesis about the invasion of Iraq. (...) (21 years ago, 17-Jul-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: A small rant...
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(...) Hi Stephan, welcome to the show that never ends! <snip> I'm sure that this stuff I just snipped has been addressed elsewhere in o.t-d, and I'm sure some will bring it up again... so I'll leave that if he could. He is a bit of a klutz though, (...) (21 years ago, 17-Jul-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: A small rant...
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In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Stefan Garcia wrote: **snip** (...) Are you talking about this? (URL) I dunno. YMMV, but it's a bit trite for my tastes, like Alan Jackson's over-praised effort. Anyway, I'd recommend checking out Ani Difranco's "Self (...) (21 years ago, 17-Jul-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Motive
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Upload a File, Go to Prison (URL) A new bill proposed in Congress on Wednesday would land a person in prison for five years and impose a fine of $250,000 for uploading a single file to a peer-to-peer network. GOP Attorneys General Asked For (...) (21 years ago, 17-Jul-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | A small rant...
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Hi all, Just wanted to vent/share some of my frustration with people about the ongoing Iraq war. So with that warning... To all the media, populace, and politicians whining about the war going on too long and having too many American (...) (21 years ago, 17-Jul-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: How many things need to stack up before we throw this jerk out?
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(...) That's actually not true, or at any rate it's only true insofar as you can become a manager in no time for $7.50 an hour or less, along with guaranteed straight-rate overtime, minimal benefits, and minimal job security. (...) Given the (...) (21 years ago, 17-Jul-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: How many things need to stack up before we throw this jerk out?
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(...) No, they're not. In most cases menial work like that is available part-time only so that the employer can avoid granting an employee much by way of the benefits that usually go to full-time workers only. Plus, how do you realistically explain (...) (21 years ago, 17-Jul-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: How many things need to stack up before we throw this jerk out?
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(...) Mostly that statement was based from a women I used to work with who grew up in North Philadelphia and basicly told me as much. She litterally told me that they should just drop a bomb on the whole area because most of them (her relatives (...) (21 years ago, 16-Jul-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: How many things need to stack up before we throw this jerk out?
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(...) How badly do you want out of your situation? McDonalds is hiring. Seriously. Your wife could presumably (if college educated or reasonably hard working, (and she must have been smart to select such as yourself Dave!)) become a manager in no (...) (21 years ago, 16-Jul-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Why prisons? Because law enforcement is a growth industry.
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Prison Industry Has a Lock on Davis (URL) Davis has slashed just about every state-funded program, including education, health care and workforce development. But one institution seems to be immune from the epidemic belt-tightening: prisons. With (...) (21 years ago, 16-Jul-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Guerrilla Warfare and the 16 Words
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US faces Iraq 'guerrilla war' (URL) One soldier at the scene of Wednesday's convoy blast wept and another raked the ground with machine gun fire. "We need more protection. We've seen enough. We've stayed in Iraq long enough," one soldier travelling (...) (21 years ago, 16-Jul-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: How many things need to stack up before we throw this jerk out?
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(...) *snip* (...) Most sharply-biased (in either direction) media sources hope that the audience never makes the connection that you point out, and all too often thats exactly what happens. It's interesting that a common conservative tactic is to (...) (21 years ago, 16-Jul-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: How many things need to stack up before we throw this jerk out?
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I wasn't overly impressed with the nature of the rhetoric or information at those links either. And while I can't speak for the specifics of what Mr. P was referring to, something similar to it can be found here: We Have Met the Wealthy, and They (...) (21 years ago, 16-Jul-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: How many things need to stack up before we throw this jerk out?
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(...) I dispute that statistic as non-representative of reality. Do you have a citation? Alternatively, if you're just making a rhetorical specultion, that's fine, but you need to disclaim it as such. And again, let's distinguish Federal assistance (...) (21 years ago, 16-Jul-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Backlash in the making
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Grassroots Uprising Fights to Protect Rights and Freedoms (URL) In October 2001, Congress passed the USA PATRIOT Act setting aside many of our individual freedoms for the sake of fighting terrorism. Since then, I've worried about what's happening to (...) (21 years ago, 16-Jul-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: How many things need to stack up before we throw this jerk out?
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(...) Yeah so they are both full of crap. (...) I agree, that is basicly what my indended meaning was. (...) Nothing, however for the 1 person like her there are 100 that are just leaching off the system. Half my aunts and uncles come to mind. I am (...) (21 years ago, 15-Jul-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Who is going to take the fall?
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"David Koudys" <dkoudys@redeemer.on.ca> wrote in message news:HI2ppH.205L@lugnet.com... (...) You're making this far more complicated than it needs to be. I say no one will take the fall. They will start stamping shiny, new Comemmorative Silver (...) (21 years ago, 15-Jul-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Let's beat him with 700 clubs
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(...) I definitely agree that people can listen to whatever they want (though it's a shame that Pat doesn't feel the same way). However, I question whether he (as head of the Christian Coalition (of the willing?) truly has no power. Within the last (...) (21 years ago, 15-Jul-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: How many things need to stack up before we throw this jerk out?
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(...) Republicans tend to spend the Federal budget into hideous deficits while cutting useful[1] social programs, so that any subsequent tax that Democrates apply to restore such programs can be villified as "tax-and-spend" liberals. [1] I know, I (...) (21 years ago, 15-Jul-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Let's beat him with 700 clubs
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Well, at least he's not actually in a position of any real power. You can't prevent people from choosing what they want to listen to or regard as a valuable resource. I know Pat Robertson is painfully offensive for many of us, but you will find a (...) (21 years ago, 15-Jul-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: Who is going to take the fall?
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(...) Naw. When everyone is pointing fingers at each other it's hard to single out the most culpable person, so they all get sent to their rooms early and without any dinner -- but that's it! Which is to say, that everyone is taking on a little (...) (21 years ago, 15-Jul-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: All the fake news, all the time...
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(...) <snip> I loved The Daily Show! But alas, I cancelled my extended cable package and no longer get Comedy Central. Dave K (21 years ago, 15-Jul-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | All the fake news, all the time...
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NOW: In Depth Transcript -- Bill Moyers Interviews Jon Stewart (URL) Stewart: Well, that's interesting. Well, that's a difference of opinion, and certainly that's what this country is about. Differences of opinion. Mr. President, let me just get (...) (21 years ago, 15-Jul-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Who is going to take the fall?
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|
Let's place some bets-- I say it's Cheney: (URL) troubles me is not that single episode, but the broader pattern of dishonesty and delusion that helped get us into the Iraq mess -- and that created the false expectations undermining our occupation (...) (21 years ago, 15-Jul-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Let's beat him with 700 clubs
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(URL) think the operative phrase in the piece is "prayer offensive." It certainly is in this case. As an interesting sidebar, and as a demonstration of his moral righteousness, Robertson is apparently a Charles Taylor All-Star: (URL) this we gather (...) (21 years ago, 15-Jul-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Core of weapons case crumbling
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(...) He probably never even had those weapons. this war was total useless ness. i mean, are we any safer? no! if saddam had weapons we could just keep track of him. Now we havnt a CLUE who has the weapons if there were any at all!!! Gee, you know, (...) (21 years ago, 14-Jul-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: How many things need to stack up before we throw this jerk out?
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(...) As usual, John -- not too much information, have you? We wouldn't want to sully your political perspective with anything like facts or meaningful conjecture... Something like $80 - $100 million were spent on the Clinton Whitewater and "Oval (...) (21 years ago, 15-Jul-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: How many things need to stack up before we throw this jerk out?
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(...) The point is that there are actual links between the Saudi government and OBL. There are no such links between OBL and Saddam. (...) OK (URL) please read> (...) Well the mass media passed on the propaganda didn't they. They just happened to (...) (21 years ago, 15-Jul-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: How many things need to stack up before we throw this jerk out?
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(...) Look, I don't claim to understand everything that is going on in Saudi Arabia. Do they sponsor terrorism? Maybe, but then why is OBL persona non grata in the Kingdom? Perhaps the right sheik doesn't know what the left sheik is sponsoring. I (...) (21 years ago, 15-Jul-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: How many things need to stack up before we throw this jerk out?
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(...) with those of its master. The 45 minute statement is a Blair thing: (URL) as noted earlier today. And as Kooties has noted elsewhere, the poodle and its master are meeting later in the week to get their mutual story straightened out and (...) (21 years ago, 15-Jul-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: How many things need to stack up before we throw this jerk out?
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(...) Here's a tidy compilation of most of my point: (URL) Dave! (21 years ago, 14-Jul-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | The Economy, Stupid! (was Re: How many things etc)
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(...) You're so cynical, Dave! Too bad it is not more contagious, it might keep more politicians on their toes. In theory, I'd like to see taxes so low that much of what we now have as part of local, state, and federal governments would be (...) (21 years ago, 14-Jul-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: How many things need to stack up before we throw this jerk out?
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(...) Well that's the first thing I have heard on the subject that makes any sense at all. (...) Personally I think the real reason the Democrats are always against tax cuts is so they can spend the money on their social engineering agenda rather (...) (21 years ago, 14-Jul-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Core of weapons case crumbling
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<snip> And right from CNN-- (URL) think the intelligence I get is darn good intelligence, and the speeches I have given were backed by good intelligence," Bush said. " 'Cause as my wonderful PM would say, "The proof is in the proof. You know it's a (...) (21 years ago, 14-Jul-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: How many things need to stack up before we throw this jerk out?
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(...) Really? Pretty much every discussion about the economy that I hear gives Reagan all the credit for the mid/late 90's boom, while all the blame for the Dubya-era recession goes to Clinton. I would go so far as to say that, among conservative (...) (21 years ago, 14-Jul-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: How many things need to stack up before we throw this jerk out?
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In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Mike Petrucelli wrote: <snip> (...) K, I don't follow American issues *that* closely, but didn't Bush sr. talk about "VooDoo Economics", and wasn't the basis of "VooDoo economics" tax cuts for the rich, such that the (...) (21 years ago, 14-Jul-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: How many things need to stack up before we throw this jerk out?
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(...) I haven't heard anyone using the ten-year-trail other than economics teachers period. In that context it makes sense, outside that context is anyones guess. (...) I haven't acctually heard anyone saying that. (...) That is because most people (...) (21 years ago, 14-Jul-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: How many things need to stack up before we throw this jerk out?
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(...) Well at least that would be consistent. :-D Seriously though I see what your getting at. (...) I was simply wondering why we are calling them that when prior to the war Bush & company stated we were not going to occupy the country for the sake (...) (21 years ago, 14-Jul-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: How many things need to stack up before we throw this jerk out?
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(...) And yet the Saudi government has done nothing. (...) Yeah cause dictatorships are a "way of life" we actually care about protecting. (...) So what is the basis of your disagreement. (...) Yeah its only been cited practiclly every time the (...) (21 years ago, 14-Jul-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: How many things need to stack up before we throw this jerk out?
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(...) But have you heard Democratic administrations using the apparent ten-year delay as evidence of the strength of their own policies (ie, those that come to fruition during Republican administrations) or to commend Republicans for enacting (...) (21 years ago, 14-Jul-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Core of weapons case crumbling
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(...) The best bit: " President Bush and Prime Minister Blair will be meeting in Washington later this week when they will discuss their strategy to justify the claims. " Justify their claims, not discern the truth, not to find out what went wrong, (...) (21 years ago, 14-Jul-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: How many things need to stack up before we throw this jerk out?
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(...) I must remind the reader that no credible link has been shown to exist between Al-qaeda and Saddam Hussein, so any references to "{1,000s of AMERICANS} who died on {OUR} soil" are irrelevant to the issue of Dubya's decision to send thousands (...) (21 years ago, 14-Jul-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Core of weapons case crumbling
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|
Core of weapons case crumbling (URL) Of the nine main conclusions in the British government document "Iraq's weapons of mass destruction", not one has been shown to be conclusively true. This one's a good redaction of the main issues. Quite short (...) (21 years ago, 14-Jul-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: How many things need to stack up before we throw this jerk out?
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(...) It is -- thanks for recognizing that. Too bad some of the rest of you are so mentally challenged. (...) Where is the QUESTION? A declarative statement is not a question. You stated: "I believe that the perceived threat was never from the Iraqi (...) (21 years ago, 14-Jul-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| |
| | Re: Y2K scam (was: How many things need to stack up before we throw this jerk out?)
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(...) Hehe, I have to laugh every time I hear that. Sure there were probably con artists that sold back yard programs to "fix" PCs, but the Y2K "problem" was in fact a problem, in that a lot of money had to be spent to fix it. And fixed it was (...) (21 years ago, 14-Jul-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: How many things need to stack up before we throw this jerk out?
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(...) My reply to what? You snipped the context thankyouverymuch. Bad form. (...) Then pray tell why did you even reply to this post? (...) What a silly thing to say! As if providing "cites" bestows merit on a particular post. (...) Sorry, Richard, (...) (21 years ago, 14-Jul-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: How many things need to stack up before we throw this jerk out?
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(...) Some are and some aren't. A policy that said we would consistently attack (with nuclear weapons) any country that had a leader that said "Bush is a weenie" would be indeed consistent, but worse than what we have now. (...) Because they're a (...) (21 years ago, 14-Jul-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: How many things need to stack up before we throw this jerk out?
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(...) We know Saudis perpetrated it; whether they were government sponsored or not is unclear. I tend to think not. OBL is a criminal in Saudi Arabia, and the Wahabi sect of Islam is just as dangerous to their way of life as it is to ours. (...) We (...) (21 years ago, 14-Jul-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: How many things need to stack up before we throw this jerk out?
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(...) Well consider what has transpired. The Governement has "accomplished" much that public opinion never would have allowed prior to 9/11. What have the perpetrators' supporters gained? Why has there not been another attack despite the fact that (...) (21 years ago, 14-Jul-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: How many things need to stack up before we throw this jerk out?
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Another bit... MEMO TO COLIN POWELL (URL) MEMO TO COLIN POWELL: You'd think that as distinguished an old soldier as Colin Powell would know that when you find yourself in a hole, you stop digging. But that's the opposite of what the secretary of (...) (21 years ago, 13-Jul-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: How many things need to stack up before we throw this jerk out?
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More on blame obfuscation: CIA Got Uranium Reference Cut in Oct. Why Bush Cited It In Jan. Is Unclear (URL) CIA Director George J. Tenet successfully intervened with White House officials to have a reference to Iraq seeking uranium from Niger (...) (21 years ago, 13-Jul-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: How many things need to stack up before we throw this jerk out?
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Snipped a lot of stuff to focus on a couple of bits... (...) I think that may be going a bit far. The government did a poor job of acting on evidence it had before it, but that's a lot different than actually "letting" the attacks succeed. There's (...) (21 years ago, 13-Jul-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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(...) That's your reply? It is absolutely a waste of time to discuss anything with you -- a person that does nothing but reiterate the nonsensical and empty platitudes of his favorite party. If you could but once come here with a cite from anyone (...) (21 years ago, 13-Jul-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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(...) Well that is about the only thing we have accomplished thus far, except for the "world freely" part. (...) Right so after Afganistan, Saudi Arabia was the only country that we can actually prove did that. (...) Well given that there are more (...) (21 years ago, 13-Jul-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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(...) So then how does that differ from how we reacted after 9-11? There wasn't any country responsible for that attack. Whom or what would you wipe off the planet? (...) No, Mike, I mean as in protecting oil fields so that they may be marketed to (...) (21 years ago, 13-Jul-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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(...) So if we declare nuetrality and state that anyone whom attacks the U.S. will be wiped off the planet that would accomplish that goal. (...) See above. (...) Hmm. Protecting our way of life huh? You mean like ignoring the bill of rights. (...) (...) (21 years ago, 13-Jul-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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(...) It is time that all of the world's tinpot leaders get the message that supporting terrorism and terrorists will lead to their ruin. (...) That may have been good advice 200 years ago, but the world is a smaller place today. There is no more (...) (21 years ago, 12-Jul-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: How many things need to stack up before we throw this jerk out?
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(...) So instead of having an honest justification -- since you have never been able to provide even a single bit of evidence to connect SH, AQ, and/or OBL -- you'd rather just invade countries within the world of Islam? Yeah, that's not anything (...) (21 years ago, 12-Jul-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: How many things need to stack up before we throw this jerk out?
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(...) LOL! If all leaders were ousted for lying & distortion of facts, none of them would last 5 minutes! BTW our PM is also copping (URL) large amounts of flak> for this so called "proof of WMD" but he will also survive it. He survived the (URL) (...) (21 years ago, 12-Jul-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: How many things need to stack up before we throw this jerk out?
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(...) Gad, you are obtuse. I love how you minimize 1,000s OF AMERICANS who died on OUR soil! There is a very real threat out there, whether you choose to acknowledge it or not. We may never know the results of the pre-emptive deposing of SH, but I'd (...) (21 years ago, 12-Jul-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: How many things need to stack up before we throw this jerk out?
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I know, I know bad form replying to myself. (...) The federal budget is not the same thing as the national economy. -Mike Petrucelli (21 years ago, 12-Jul-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: How many things need to stack up before we throw this jerk out?
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(...) All of them. I hope in my lifetime all the politicians are gone and we reinstate the use of representatives. (...) Yeah but when over half the population believes the story and now "feels safe" you might as well bide your time. (...) Ok the (...) (21 years ago, 12-Jul-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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(...) Oh absolutely. (...) Well I have heard the same thing from liberals favoring Democratic admistrations that is why I tend to accept it moreso than not. (...) No. (...) Well duh. (...) Unfortunatly I really never figured that part out. Maybe (...) (21 years ago, 12-Jul-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: How many things need to stack up before we throw this jerk out?
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It'd be great to blame Shrub for a lot of this, and I do, but let's be even more specific in what is being claimed. Leaving quotes and vaguely worded claims to the side, I am blame Shrub for a rush to judgment on a matter of considerable importance. (...) (21 years ago, 11-Jul-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: How many things need to stack up before we throw this jerk out?
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(...) I love how you minimize AMERICANS DYING on foreign soil and WAR in general as mere partisan politics! Yeah, we're all just little partisan pawns to move about to and fro on your Xtian "apocalypse" game board, John. For the upteenth time, and (...) (21 years ago, 11-Jul-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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(...) Not really. I'd only object to Cheney inasmuch as he is probably just as responsible as Dubya is. I don't regard duping the American people into spending billions of dollars and the lives of American service men and women as merely "politics". (...) (21 years ago, 11-Jul-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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(...) Correct, but I'm pretty sure that you would have to go pretty far down the pike in order to get to a Democrat, which is really what this whole thing is all about (partisan politics). JOHN (21 years ago, 11-Jul-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: How many things need to stack up before we throw this jerk out?
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(...) I don't think it will go anyhow; the state of CA has been going w/out a budget for days now and this Californian would rather see money for a re-election go elsewhere, like education and health services. But speaking as a native Californian, (...) (21 years ago, 11-Jul-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: How many things need to stack up before we throw this jerk out?
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(...) Impeachment would take focus away from Iraq -- and we need to get out of there in a big hurry -- so I'm not for impeachment, not exactly anyway. I just favor anyone but Shrub the next time around. But whomever we get, we will get the president (...) (21 years ago, 11-Jul-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: How many things need to stack up before we throw this jerk out?
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(...) If only we could figure out who won the popular vote in 2000. Seriously though--if Bush were to leave due to impeachment or wrongdoing, then naturally Cheney would have to assume the post. Unless of course Cheney is likewise guilty of (...) (21 years ago, 11-Jul-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: How many things need to stack up before we throw this jerk out?
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(...) If only we could figure out who won the popular vote in 2000. Seriously though--if Bush were to leave due to impeachment or wrongdoing, then naturally Cheney would have to assume the post. Unless of course Cheney is likewise guilty of (...) (21 years ago, 11-Jul-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: How many things need to stack up before we throw this jerk out?
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(...) Of course, if you simply hate Liberals, then Feinstein slithers, but at least she isn't an incompetent do-nothing. (...) We don't get a choice: it would be Cheney. I just had to one-up the Feinstein scenario you dread. :-) -->Bruce<-- (21 years ago, 11-Jul-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: How many things need to stack up before we throw this jerk out?
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(...) I'm not clear why this is unrelated -- it seems very related to me, and also an obvious example of the U.S.' very poor foreign policy as a whole. The other issue is shelf-life: it is my understanding that most of this stuff has lost its (...) (21 years ago, 11-Jul-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: How many things need to stack up before we throw this jerk out?
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In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Richard Marchetti wrote: (snip) I'm curious. Elsewhere in this thread the recall of Gray Davis was mentioned. I happen to think that a bad idea because I think that that could open the door for someone really horrible to (...) (21 years ago, 11-Jul-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: How many things need to stack up before we throw this jerk out?
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(...) We have to be careful about that kind of assertion, though, because it's after-the-fact and is succeptible to tremendous spin. Additionally (though not conclusively) I've heard the point put forth most vehemently by conservative pundits, who (...) (21 years ago, 11-Jul-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: How many things need to stack up before we throw this jerk out?
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Well from all 3 Economics classes I have taken through high school and college all three teachers/professers have stated that a President and Congress's effect on the economy shows up about 10 years after the fact. Sort of a catch 22, the government (...) (21 years ago, 11-Jul-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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