Subject:
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Re: How many things need to stack up before we throw this jerk out?
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Newsgroups:
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lugnet.off-topic.debate
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Date:
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Tue, 15 Jul 2003 01:48:41 GMT
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Viewed:
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422 times
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In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Mike Petrucelli wrote:
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Right so after Afganistan, Saudi Arabia was the only country that we can
actually prove did that.
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We know Saudis perpetrated it; whether they were government sponsored or not
is unclear.
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And yet the Saudi government has done nothing.
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Look, I don’t claim to understand everything that is going on in Saudi Arabia.
Do they sponsor terrorism? Maybe, but then why is OBL persona non grata in the
Kingdom? Perhaps the right sheik doesn’t know what the left sheik is
sponsoring. I don’t know, but I think our intelligence services are actively
trying to find out.
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I tend to think not. OBL is a criminal in Saudi Arabia, and the
Wahabi sect of Islam is just as dangerous to their way of life as it is to
ours.
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Yeah cause dictatorships are a “way of life” we actually care about
protecting.
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We can agree to disagree here,
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So what is the basis of your disagreement.
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but I am still waiting for a cite to your
assertion about US aid to Palestinians compared to Israel.
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Yeah its only been cited practiclly every time the Israel vs. Palestine
subject comes up in off-topic.debate. Feel free to dig it up but I would have
expected you to have learned that fact already from reading those posts.
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Honestly I have no idea what you are talking about. So I found this for you:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/3054705.stm
Perhaps you could share what you are talking about.
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I mean the U.S. propaganda mass media make the public think they are in
danger so they can control them, fear mongers.
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What are you talking about here? US government propaganda, or mass media
propaganda, or are they in concert together? And who is doing the
controlling-- the US government or the mass media?
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One and the same.
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Huh? Quoting you from: http://news.lugnet.com/off-topic/debate/?n=21525
“Does it surprise me that the Bush team fabricated half the story, no. Every
politican throughout history has done the same thing to garner public support.
Today in the world of mass media they can?t really get away with stuff like that
anymore.” So, Mike, are they with each other or not?
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If it is the Patriot Act that has your undies in a bunch, then I
respectfully submit that that is another debate topic, although a good one:
How does a free society protect itself against terrorism while preserving
free rights for all. It is a very difficult question to answer I will freely
admit, and I don’t necessarily defend the Patriot Act myself.
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Well so far we have done nothing substaintially different than before 9/11.
The Patriot Act is supposedly the answer. Which aslo happens to be the only
thing threating our “way of life.”
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Let’s suppose that the attack on 9-11 was actually a nuclear bomb
denotation. How would we have reacted differently than we did?
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We probably would have wiped out most of the middle east.
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I think you are just plain wrong in that assessment.
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Why?
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Because none of our leaders, even Democrats, are that crazy. It doesn’t make
any sense, doesn’t do any good, and doesn’t solve any problem.
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Oh gee I don’t know how about actually educating them about what democracy
is and such.
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What do you suppose we are doing over there?
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Stealing oil. What do you suppose we are doing over there?
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Not stealing oil. We are hanging around until the Iraqis are able to form a
stable democracy.
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It is not as if there aren’t
1,000s of Iraqi expatriots who have been educated in the US and know all
about freedom and democracy.
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So where are all these people and why aren’t they fighting for freedom?
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Many have returned and have assumed positions of power. Trouble is, to the
native Iraqis they seem like US puppets. The whole thing is going to take time.
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Afganistan might be a different story though...
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Why?
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Afganistan is less westernized and has fewer natural resources than the lucky
Iraqis.
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You are correct that if he didn’t control a vast percentage of the world’s
oil fields, we wouldn’t have cared as much. We need that oil.
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No we don’t need it its just convenient.
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The Iraqi people need the money we pay them for that oil.
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I’ll believe it when I see the Iraqi people benefiting from it.
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It is actually in both our interests that that flow continues.
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Well so far its only been in our interests.
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I would belive that if we were actually trying to educate the people rather
than simply control and/or contain them. Really that is only a few levels
above what Saddam was doing.
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You are mistaken as to what our mission is in that country.
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I know what Bush said our mission was. I know what is actually happening.
Actions speak far louder than words.
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Anyways all of it is a scam, much like the whole Y2K “problem” was. It is a
method of keeping people in a state of fear. Not so much that they don’t go
about their daily routine, but enough to keep most of them from asking
questions. It is population control so the masses do not threaten those in
power. Actions speak far louder than words, you just have to pay attention.
The greatest threat to our country comes from our government not some
mysterious phantom “terrorists.” We are no safer from terrorist attack
today than we were 3 years ago but we are far more susceptible to blatant
violation of the constitution by government agencies and police.
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Well, you are certainly entitled to your opinion, but it sounds like
paranoia and conspiracy theories to me.
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So what do you think is wrong with my assesment? Simply stating that you
disagree doesn’t really provide any useful information to try and change my
mind.
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It is never my intention to change your mind. I only seek to clarify positions.
You have yours and I have mine. You believe that the US government has some
secret policy of keeping Americans fearful, I do not. Appearances can sometimes
deceive, especially when viewed through biased spectacles. We are all biased to
some extent or another, and something that may seem very logical to you might
could be quite proposterous to me. It is no coincidence that those who believe
Bush should be run out of office are either liberal or democratic, and by the
same token those who believe he is a great president are conservative and
Republican. It’s boring partisanship really.
JOHN
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