 | | Re: Rights to free goods? (was Re: What happened?
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(...) Saw it. (...) Please explain why this is a good thing and not the inmates running the asylum. Please justify how burning down the administration building is a good way to send the message that the school is not delivering appropriate classes, (...) (25 years ago, 8-Jul-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Rights to free goods? (was Re: What happened?
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(...) Actually, you can, and it was the intent of the original program - to assist those with no income and to assist those who are underemployeed. (...) [snip] (...) Well, actually, he has to pay unemployment insurance (which is part of his taxes). (...) (25 years ago, 8-Jul-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: federalist ISBN (was Re: Rights to free goods? (was Re: What happened?
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(...) Yeah, I could do that too, but lately, with wrist and elbow pains setting in, I've decided I should spend less time reading in front of the computer and more time reading in my recliner. I'll be happy when portable e-books become commonplace, (...) (25 years ago, 8-Jul-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Rights to free goods? (was Re: What happened?
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(...) See my reply to Weeks. (...) were (...) Again read my reply to Weeks. (...) Construction workers are employed by construction companies. Those companies have winter layoffs. Those employees, having worked 6 months or more, are entitled to (...) (25 years ago, 8-Jul-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Rights to free goods? (was Re: What happened?
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(...) You're stretching here, you know. This notion that you paid in advance for food stamps and therefore are entitled to get them kind of runs counter to the notion that the needy deserve help whether they paid for it or not. You can't have it (...) (25 years ago, 8-Jul-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Rights to free goods? (was Re: What happened?
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Christopher L. Weeks wrote in message <3783B529.73A74C27@c...ri.edu>... (...) against (...) were (...) Groovy! <silly debate snipped> (...) Chris, I tend to agree with you more often than with Ed "Boxer" Jones, but if you would advocate the above, I (...) (25 years ago, 8-Jul-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Rights to free goods? (was Re: What happened?
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(...) were (...) Why, because we had the nerve to see that things were wrong and fought to right them? Or because your generation has done absolutely nothing but reap the goods for nothing. (...) In the 60s you didn't have to hire anyone. You could (...) (25 years ago, 8-Jul-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Free speech and abuse thereof
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(...) Tough question, and one to which I freely admit that I don't have the answer. Libertopia may not do any better than we do at this one. I know it hardly can do any worse. (1) Seems to me that reckless endangerment is one of the common law (...) (25 years ago, 8-Jul-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Rights to free goods? (was Re: What happened?
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(...) So did I, although you have some seniority on me, the 70's were my decade of activism. (...) Good causes. I was prepared to resist Vietnam if it had dragged on much longer. What a useless little war. A waste of national treasure, and human (...) (25 years ago, 8-Jul-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Free speech and abuse thereof
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(...) I don't exactly either, I included some pretty heavy caveats when I first said the S word. When it first came up, it was about parents who're "criminally" negligent. What do you think ought to happen to them? People will remain psychologically (...) (25 years ago, 7-Jul-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: federalist ISBN (was Re: Rights to free goods? (was Re: What happened?
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On Tue, 6 Jul 1999 03:30:06 GMT, Mike Stanley uttered the following profundities... (...) I have downloaded that, the constitution, BoR, DoI, from Project Gutenburg. (25 years ago, 7-Jul-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Free speech and abuse thereof
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(...) No society can ever be perfect. The following are pat answers and none of them completely solves the problem. Some of them won't work without some other societal restructuring. - Despite the image of the quiet, secret rebel who suddenly snaps, (...) (25 years ago, 7-Jul-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Rights to free goods? (was Re: What happened?
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(...) The 60s is the decade that invented the socially-acceptable slacker as far as I can tell. I get so sick of you people ranting insanely about how grand those times were. How exactly did you and yours fight for those things? Equal rights - I (...) (25 years ago, 7-Jul-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Free speech and abuse thereof
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(...) I wasn't placing blame on the LP (hm, same initials as Larry's, any coincidence?). I was asking how in Liberatopia, this situation would be dealt with. Note that Liberatopia has few, if any, gun control laws. (...) (25 years ago, 7-Jul-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Rights to free goods? (was Re: What happened?
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(...) I grew up during the 60s - remember the era that fought for equal rights, fought against the war in Vietnam, fought for student rights, fought against oppression of the poor by the rich, fought to get assistance to those who were in need. You (...) (25 years ago, 7-Jul-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Free speech and abuse thereof
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Frank, Very easy. Enforce the 20,000 or so gun control laws on the books, and crack down on people that buy/sell guns illegally. Penalizing law abiding citizens that use / buy / sell guns does nothing. As for the Libertarian thing, I do not know of (...) (25 years ago, 7-Jul-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Free speech and abuse thereof
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The current news item about the white supremacist who went on a rampage leaves me wondering how we deal with that type of thing from a Libertarian perspective. To me it seems that the organization has some responsibility for what the individual did, (...) (25 years ago, 7-Jul-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Rights to free goods? (was Re: What happened?
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(...) For sake of clarity, I only think such a procedure should be employed for those who demonstrate the unwillingness to care for their young. People can disagree with me in any number of ways and still have the RIGHT to have kids as long as they (...) (25 years ago, 7-Jul-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Lego Holocaust art (Was: can someone help me identify these parts?)
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(...) <snippage> I'm a little lost, Richard, for what you are apologizing regarding the State of Israel. The Partition Plan had GB occupying Palestine for a set amount of time (30 years), so the withdrawal was very much a planned one. Further, GB (...) (25 years ago, 7-Jul-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Lego Holocaust art (Was: can someone help me identify these parts?)
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<378175FB.F271E352@uswest.net> <37819a93.11491496@lugnet.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Well, he's got big hands, but there I go violating Lar's (...) (25 years ago, 7-Jul-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Rights to free goods? (was Re: What happened?
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(...) I agree. I've actually thought a plan of universal reversible sterilization would do just fine, with some form of proof of worthiness to be un-sterilized. The worthiness part is the tricky part - I know I'm not qualified to make decisions like (...) (25 years ago, 7-Jul-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Rights to free goods? (was Re: What happened?
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(...) A friend of mine became a VP at Chase Manhattan Bank/Chemical Bank with an AS degree. He built himself up by taking courses when needed, and just going out and showing that he was capable of doing the job. (25 years ago, 6-Jul-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Rights to free goods? (was Re: What happened?
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(...) Careful what you agree to. They're a serious read. (...) No, only things that require resources to acquire. (...) And that's how it should be. (...) I'm with Larry, they should be done away with. My kid was inoculated on the dime of my (...) (25 years ago, 6-Jul-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Rights to free goods? (was Re: What happened?
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(...) More money spent certain ways CAN help, but it won't be spent that way. (...) Right. Parents need to be educated too. Public school should include the whole family and if they refuse to participate, society ought to frown on it dramatically (...) (25 years ago, 6-Jul-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Rights to free goods? (was Re: What happened?
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(...) I think that was me. (...) I'll be paying almost $2000 to move in August because I have lots and lots of large things. When I was 19 I moved away from my parents' house - 300 miles for about $20 in gas. Everything I owned fit in my car after (...) (25 years ago, 6-Jul-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Rights to free goods? (was Re: What happened?
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(...) You just wait for the comming era of nanotechnology. We'll see plated wires growing before I'm dead, or I'll be...uh...dead. (25 years ago, 6-Jul-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Rights to free goods? (was Re: What happened?
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On Mon, 5 Jul 1999 15:16:31 GMT, Larry Pieniazek uttered the following profundities... (...) You should know me well enough by now to know the answer to that one. Of course I am! :o) (...) I missed out somewhere the bit about no taxis. (...) Sales (...) (25 years ago, 6-Jul-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Rights to free goods? (was Re: What happened?
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On Mon, 5 Jul 1999 15:06:30 GMT, Larry Pieniazek uttered the following profundities... (...) Requested on the off-chance someone had them? I do have a fair few documents from wiretap.spies or whatever it was called, I downloaded almost everything (...) (25 years ago, 6-Jul-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Rights to free goods? (was Re: What happened?
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On Mon, 5 Jul 1999 00:20:22 GMT, Mike Stanley uttered the following profundities... (...) Indeed it is, but no harm in asking should someone just happen to have them! (...) Prefer metacrawler...., but when back online will go for yours. (25 years ago, 6-Jul-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Lego Holocaust art (Was: can someone help me identify these parts?)
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Dang! Let me know next time! Always looking for something new to do. :-) "Big Unit" - What a nickname! -- Terry K -- (...) (25 years ago, 6-Jul-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: federalist ISBN (was Re: Rights to free goods? (was Re: What happened?
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(...) Thanks. That one's nice and cheap on Amazon. I think I'll swing by my used bookstore tomorrow and see if I can find a copy even cheaper, though. Hate to pay shipping on a 5 dollar book. Better than paying tax on it, though. ;) (25 years ago, 6-Jul-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Lego Holocaust art (Was: can someone help me identify these parts?)
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I didn't know you were in Phoenix, Terry. I was just in town 1 nite last week to see a Diamondbacks game and your new stadium-- nice! Got to see the Big Unit pitch against Mark McGuire et al and a rookie named Jose Jimenez. Randy struck out 14, but (...) (25 years ago, 6-Jul-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | federalist ISBN (was Re: Rights to free goods? (was Re: What happened?
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Commentary may have been too strong a word, it has an intro, some editing, and a cross referenced constitution I have the Rossiter edition ISBN 0-451-62451-2 (25 years ago, 5-Jul-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Rights to free goods? (was Re: What happened?
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(...) Food (store-bought) is less important than Internet access. :-) Heck, I can stick some seeds in the ground and grow my own food for free out in the garden if I want, but I sure can't stick a wire in the ground and grow Internet access for (...) (25 years ago, 5-Jul-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Rights to free goods? (was Re: What happened?
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(...) Mind posting the ISBN (if you have it handy) or title of the edition you bought? I'd like to pick it up myself and the first 4 versions I've checked out on Amazon do not appear to have much in the form of commentary. (25 years ago, 5-Jul-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Rights to free goods? (was Re: What happened?
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(...) Really, Richard, are you trying to appear dense and quibblish on purpose? I'm convinced that the "final state" libertarian government can be funded without taxes. Taxes are only needed during the transition period. So I don't want any. But if (...) (25 years ago, 5-Jul-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Rights to free goods? (was Re: What happened?
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(...) It does. A quick search will turn it up online. I shan't provide the free good of doing your research for you in this case. I went out and bought a copy in the bookstore because I wanted to be able to read it on the plane. Note that the papers (...) (25 years ago, 5-Jul-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Rights to free goods? (was Re: What happened?
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(...) Too much work. You go to www.excite.com Type federalist papers into the search box Go from there (I found them at the 3rd listing, skipping the first 2) Shakin near everything is on the web - you just have to want to find it. Remedying one's (...) (25 years ago, 5-Jul-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Rights to free goods? (was Re: What happened?
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On Sat, 3 Jul 1999 20:43:09 GMT, Larry Pieniazek uttered the following profundities... (...) It is an interesting measure of "humanity." How much do we make the sick, and their families, suffer, in order that we expend vast resources in order to (...) (25 years ago, 4-Jul-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Rights to free goods? (was Re: What happened?
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On Sat, 3 Jul 1999 08:42:49 GMT, Mike Stanley uttered the following profundities... (...) It certainly isn't a "utopia," at least in the UK. It is bureaucratic, mismanaged, and all health care is expensive, after all. New drugs cost a fortune, and (...) (25 years ago, 4-Jul-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Lego Holocaust art (Was: can someone help me identify these parts?)
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On Sat, 3 Jul 1999 23:31:15 GMT, Selçuk <teyyareci> uttered the following profundities... <snipped, but only for repost brevity> I am British. A lot of your post seemed to be written assuming I was American. Being British, though, am well aware of (...) (25 years ago, 4-Jul-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Rights to free goods? (was Re: What happened?
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On Sat, 3 Jul 1999 14:27:17 GMT, Larry Pieniazek uttered the following profundities... (...) Unless of course, you are one of the poor sods denied any health care, because even if they made it to the hospital, they might be deemed an unsuitable (...) (25 years ago, 4-Jul-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Rights to free goods? (was Re: What happened?
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On Sat, 3 Jul 1999 08:56:30 GMT, Mike Stanley uttered the following profundities... (...) Agreed, it must be all or nothing, but I will defend the no tax on any food position. (25 years ago, 4-Jul-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Rights to free goods? (was Re: What happened?
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On Sat, 3 Jul 1999 20:56:01 GMT, Larry Pieniazek uttered the following profundities... (...) I do not have these federalist papers to which you refer, so must trust your *interpretation* of them. Assuming a copy exists on the 'net, I shall read (...) (25 years ago, 4-Jul-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Rights to free goods? (was Re: What happened?
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On Sat, 3 Jul 1999 08:50:13 GMT, Mike Stanley uttered the following profundities... (...) I wouldn't know the answers, either. And I agree, too many parents take too little interest in their children. However, where chronic underfunding exists in a (...) (25 years ago, 4-Jul-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Rights to free goods? (was Re: What happened?
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(...) In all fairness Communism is INdefensible from first principles, if you accept the rights based principle that people have the right to maximum freedom, or the utilitarian principle that we should strive for the system that produces the (...) (25 years ago, 4-Jul-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Rights to free goods? (was Re: What happened?
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(...) In all fairness Communism is defendable from first principles yet is always said to be bad. I agree with the ideal of communism but not Marxism. In an ideal communism state there is no tax, no unemployment. I've missed out on most of this (...) (25 years ago, 4-Jul-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: stunningly geedy people
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(...) It was for gag-purposes only? (...) Carbon "I was quoting a sketch from the Fast Show, BBC2" 60 ICQ # 5643170 (25 years ago, 4-Jul-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: An interesting URL from my favorite newspaper
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(...) I wonder how many people can read those words and not be moved by them? Small measures, indeed. ''If ye love wealth greater than liberty, the tranquility of servitude greater than the animating contest for freedom, go home from us in peace,'' (...) (25 years ago, 4-Jul-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Rights to free goods? (was Re: What happened?
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Larry Pieniazek wrote in message <377E75DD.377FC107@v...er.net>... (...) One thing that does worry me a bit is if our capability to identify genetic markers for those diseases which are genetic outstrips our ability to improve care for them knowing (...) (25 years ago, 4-Jul-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Lego Holocaust art (Was: can someone help me identify these parts?)
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Richard Dee <richard.dee@virgin.net> wrote in message news:MPG.11e724efed7...net.com... (...) Burundi, (...) to a (...) are (...) I think this was not specific to any Armenian being. I can't remember anything about any minority living in Turkey (...) (25 years ago, 3-Jul-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | An interesting URL from my favorite newspaper
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which has bearing on the current debate (URL) it, then ask yourself, were the founding fathers such fools, or is there something fundamentally different about men (and the governments they construct) now that we're willing to trust government when (...) (25 years ago, 3-Jul-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Rights to free goods? (was Re: What happened?
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(...) Let me forestall a pounce, this is a typo. The second "me" should say "my family after I am gone" (25 years ago, 3-Jul-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Rights to free goods? (was Re: What happened?
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(...) I'm going to refer you to the federalist papers on this, and they're a hard slog, believe me, I'm re-reading them now, as I periodically do. Summarizing, though: I acknowledge that a quick read of the phrase "LL&PH" may leave one with the (...) (25 years ago, 3-Jul-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Rights to free goods? (was Re: What happened?
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(...) The one that will get Bill Gates is the one we can't cure yet. Same as what got Princess Diana. We currently cannot save people that get crushed to 1/2 their volume and aren't extricated and gotten to the hospital that very instant. It did not (...) (25 years ago, 3-Jul-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Rights to free goods? (was Re: What happened?
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(...) I'm glad John's here but I do want to point out that I was perfectly fine with this particular one... I riffed on it quite happily. In general I tend to pounce on ad hominems but this wasn't one. (25 years ago, 3-Jul-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Rights to free goods? (was Re: What happened?
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(...) What part of "no exceptions" don't you understand? ALL or nothing. Water is something essential to life itself. So is gasoline if it's in the car that's rushing you to the hospital, or nails if they're in the 2by4 directly over your head (...) (25 years ago, 3-Jul-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Rights to free goods? (was Re: What happened?
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Mike Stanley wrote in message ... (...) Healthcare is definitely the toughest nut to crack here. The problem is that essentially for anyone in the world, there is a medical condition which would take more resources to treat than they themselves own (...) (25 years ago, 3-Jul-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Rights to free goods? (was Re: What happened?
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(...) I disagree. We've seen various proposals here that say you wouldn't tax "unprepared" food but you would tax prepared food. So you wouldn't tax the mass-produced ham you buy in little packets, but if you decide you'd like fresher meat from the (...) (25 years ago, 3-Jul-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Rights to free goods? (was Re: What happened?
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(...) I haven't been convinced that more money will always create better education. Public education, like everything else run by the government, is almost by definition inefficient and wasteful. Still, as bad as it may be, I received my entire (...) (25 years ago, 3-Jul-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Rights to free goods? (was Re: What happened?
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(...) This is something I'm curious about. In these European countries that have this utopia of "free" healthcare I would assume it is paid for with taxes, right? I've also heard that in such places those who have the means most definitely do choose (...) (25 years ago, 3-Jul-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Rights to free goods? (was Re: What happened?
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(...) I agree. I'd also point out that the person who was most adamant about thinking it is "human nature" to be selfish and not give, no matter how much you do or do not have taken from you by the government was the person who somewhat proudly (...) (25 years ago, 3-Jul-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Rights to free goods? (was Re: What happened?
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On Wed, 30 Jun 1999 00:44:51 GMT, Larry Pieniazek uttered the following profundities... (...) You would tax food? It is something essential to life itself. Though one could argue taxation on certain items of food (1), to tax *all* food items, IMO, (...) (25 years ago, 3-Jul-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Rights to free goods? (was Re: What happened?
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On Tue, 29 Jun 1999 14:18:59 GMT, Larry Pieniazek uttered the following profundities... (...) I responded before seeing this bit! :o) Actually, in Europe(1) we do a rather crap job of provision of social care. Too many liberals and communists have (...) (25 years ago, 3-Jul-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Rights to free goods? (was Re: What happened?
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On Tue, 29 Jun 1999 14:18:59 GMT, Larry Pieniazek uttered the following profundities... (...) But your own Declaration of Independance states that everyone is entitled to life, liberty and the pursuit of hapiness. Health is necessary to life, yet (...) (25 years ago, 3-Jul-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Lego Holocaust art (Was: can someone help me identify these parts?)
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On Thu, 1 Jul 1999 09:20:32 GMT, Selçuk <teyyareci> uttered the following profundities... (...) Maybe it was the 80's, I don't remember specifically. I just vaguely remember a story from someone who had visited who had described some persecution (...) (25 years ago, 3-Jul-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Rights to free goods? (was Re: What happened?
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John DiRienzo wrote: Although I think this is somewhat of a dead horse issue and I'm wayyyy to tired to be writing this...John addressed me personally, so I thought I should respond... (...) <snip> (...) Just trying to diffuse a tense situation with (...) (25 years ago, 3-Jul-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Rights to free goods? (was Re: What happened?
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John DiRienzo wrote in message ... (...) Are you commenting on my words or Ed's here? (...) My "yes and no" was that in one sense, charity is the giving of goods without expecting something in return (shorthand "free goods"), but it is also a "no" (...) (25 years ago, 3-Jul-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Rights to free goods? (was Re: What happened?
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Mike Stanley wrote in message ... (...) I hate to bring up the old religion thing, but it is relevant. One of the greatest difficulties that the average westerner has in accepting the Libertarian idea that people are basically good, is that one of (...) (25 years ago, 3-Jul-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Rights to free goods? (was Re: What happened?
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James Brown <galliard@shades-of-night.com> wrote: Not really responding to what James wrote, although I think it made sense. Just jumping in again. Brought up Larry's (and what I assume are the LP's) opinions on the government health care thing (...) (25 years ago, 2-Jul-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Rights to free goods? (was Re: What happened?
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(...) his (...) I think that you're ignoring (as I understand it) a basic tenate of Libertarianism. Where does the fault lie? If this person has no savings, is it his own fault, or circumstances beyond his control? More to the immediate, who's fault (...) (25 years ago, 2-Jul-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Rights to free goods? (was Re: What happened?
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John Cromer wrote in message ... (...) Thanks for pointing this out. You are right, our general voting public (clear-headed Americans) would rather vote for assholes that lie and say they will make things better than for people who could actually (...) (25 years ago, 2-Jul-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Rights to free goods? (was Re: What happened?
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Frank Filz wrote in message <377A8667.334E@minds...ng.com>... (...) need. (...) No, he did not say that. Its funny how people who like to take other people's property also like to take other people's words and misuse them. (...) Frank is catching on (...) (25 years ago, 2-Jul-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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Thomas Main wrote in message <3779144D.DC72D75@ap...te.edu>... (...) Ah, just what the doctor ordered - good, teenage humor. When you can't argue, just hit 'em below the belt. Thomas, I don't know you very well, but I have now read a couple posts of (...) (25 years ago, 2-Jul-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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I was catching up on this group when I read this post. This post by Lar is 100% right on. Why are there 46 more posts left in this thread for me to read??? I hope its a bunch of puns, as I can't see anything left to debate. I guess all hell has (...) (25 years ago, 2-Jul-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Christopher L. Weeks writes: [...] (...) Agreed. Unfortunately, with progressively debilitating diseases, the brain is often the first thing to go, and can be gone before you know what's happened or have a chance to do (...) (25 years ago, 2-Jul-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Todd Lehman writes: [...] (...) OUCH! You are *too* much. John C (25 years ago, 2-Jul-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) Thanks for the advice...I'll try not to. (...) One of my roommates in college grew up in a Utah sheep-farming family. He tells a quaint little annecdote like yours. His grandfather got old (it happens to all of us) and stopped working on the (...) (25 years ago, 2-Jul-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) Somebody just watched "The Trouble with Tribbles"! --Todd (25 years ago, 2-Jul-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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Well, we really have a quite a little mutual admiration society going here, don't we. All this macho, I've-got- 10-jobs back-slapping is touching, but let me offer a little unsolicited advice: Don't get sick, especially with a long-term, chronic (...) (25 years ago, 2-Jul-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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Wow, Mike Stanley and I agree on something! That is amazing! (J/K Mike. You made some great points!) I happen to work two jobs to pay off my student loans. Scott Sanburn (...) (25 years ago, 1-Jul-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) Lost a high-paying job and had to take a much lower paying job, yes. Shit happens. I made the best of the situation and moved on. Everyone else can too. (...) Saying "he lost his job and the only jobs available were minimum wage jobs so he (...) (25 years ago, 1-Jul-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) I hear ya brother Larry. (...) No. Never. But, they should have a RIGHT to earn goods. (...) Others have hashed this one out pretty well, but basically, f@*k him. 35 years is a long time to not sock something away for the future. One of my (...) (25 years ago, 1-Jul-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) It should also be said that charity doesn't automatically mean "free" goods. Habitat for Humanity is very definitely a charity, but they don't give away houses. They ask their benneficiaries to help build the house and in general to show (...) (25 years ago, 1-Jul-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) I think the problem here is that you are looking at the libertarian perspective piecemeal. As I understand it from what Larry has said is that since everything is connected, a truly (or at least much more than the one we have now) free market (...) (25 years ago, 1-Jul-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) He didn't say a right; he said they would _probably_ receive charity. (25 years ago, 1-Jul-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) Um....He does. By your own admission previously, you do allow him to extort money out of you for his pet projects. ('He' refers to Ed, the government, and communists in general.) (25 years ago, 1-Jul-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) If he gets hit by a truck (this is what the original post was about), he'd be refused medical attention because he has no benefits and can't afford it on his own. Through no fault of his own, society and the government have just condemned him (...) (25 years ago, 1-Jul-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) the (...) 90's. "Armenian's in Turkey" ?... In 90's?...I really couldn't understand what are you talking about. Selçuk (25 years ago, 1-Jul-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) This smacks of this new age crap I hear about how morals are relative and everyone is entitled to their own morals, no matter how warped, and nobody else should condemn them. That's bullshit. Lemme give you an example of how you determine what (...) (25 years ago, 1-Jul-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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Larry Pieniazek wrote in message <37796883.7A114758@v...er.net>... (...) And of course I replied in kind... Here's my reply: (...) Thanks for the response. I suppose I am close to being a closet Libertarian. I think most of my discomfort has been (...) (25 years ago, 1-Jul-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) This point is valid. There is no perfect society and Libertarianism does not claim to be able to achieve one. It merely claims to be able to make things better. (...) Answer this question yourself, please. I know why it failed. I suspect you (...) (25 years ago, 1-Jul-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) OK, OK, I give in. I'll feel compassion for those people in the US that for reasons beyond their control can't afford to take care of themselves. All 2 of them. That was a flippant remark, but it makes a point. If you want my help, you have to (...) (25 years ago, 1-Jul-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) No. (...) Yes and no. (...) No. There is no right to charity. A charity may feel a moral obligation to help, but that moral obligation is something between them and their benefactors. A charity will set conditions under which it provides goods (...) (25 years ago, 30-Jun-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) Ignoring the minimum wage issue, who cares if the only jobs available are minimum wage? I've worked for varying amounts in my life. If you work for 35 years making $30k per year (sorry, that should probably be $40-50k/year if we're talking a (...) (25 years ago, 30-Jun-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) No, I think he's saying that, in a perfect libertopia, other people who help these people of their own free will. That does not imply that ABC have rights to those goods. (25 years ago, 30-Jun-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) His savings are gone so soon? What did A do for 35 years? I have only been actively saving for a short while now and I could last a few months without my job, minimum. Inside of a year I'll be able to last a lot longer. Why would A have so (...) (25 years ago, 30-Jun-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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Your little moral problems are a sucker's trap, because you haven't stated enough assumptions and preconditions, so whatever I say will be twisted around. But hey, look up sucker in the dictionary... see that picture? that's me. (...) Why? No one (...) (25 years ago, 30-Jun-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) Oh, come on!! You CANNOT have a "perfect" society with more than a small number of people!! It is imposible! No matter what, there will be some that take advantage of it. Why do you think Communism failed? Any type of society that relies on (...) (25 years ago, 30-Jun-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) So you are saying that these people have the right to the care that they need. Isn't charity the giving of free goods? Are you saying that these people have a right to free goods? (25 years ago, 30-Jun-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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