Subject:
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Re: Lego Holocaust art (Was: can someone help me identify these parts?)
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Newsgroups:
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lugnet.off-topic.debate
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Date:
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Sat, 3 Jul 1999 23:31:15 GMT
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Viewed:
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1217 times
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Richard Dee <richard.dee@virgin.net> wrote in message
news:MPG.11e724efed7d628b9896e7@lugnet.com...
> On Thu, 1 Jul 1999 09:20:32 GMT, Selçuk <teyyareci> uttered the following
> profundities...
> >
> > > But we also left alone The Hutus (or was it Tutsi?) in Rwanda & • Burundi,
> > the
> > > Karen in Burma, the Timorese in Indonesia, ethnic Armenians in Turkey, • to a
> > > limited extent the Kurds....and these are just a small selection of the
> > 90's.
> >
> > "Armenian's in Turkey" ?... In 90's?...I really couldn't understand what • are
> > you talking about.
> >
> > Selçuk
>
> Maybe it was the 80's, I don't remember specifically. I just
> vaguely remember a story from someone who had visited who had
> described some persecution they had witnessed/experienced.
> (It could have been an isolated incident, but the individual
> made some investigations, and heard of persecution by the
> police in some areas. And something about the Ottomans
> doing nasty things in 1916....)
I think this was not specific to any Armenian being. I can't remember
anything about any minority living in Turkey (PKK conflict is a very
different story) like this in my life (I'm 28 year old by the way), I mean
"persecution".Actually, "persecution" and "Turkish Police" are very close
terms, and when it comes to persecution by police in Turkey, it doesn't
matter if you are an 100% Turkish or not. Everybody dislikes police,
everybody tries to stay away from them as much as possible. (They are not
nasty as been shown in the film "Midnight Express" by the way).
When it comes to 1916, this was a totally different story, anyway. The true
explanation summary is below, but I should say something about the style of
thinking first. Every country that I know that existing on earth, or existed
in history has some nasty background. What about the Indians in USA? Where
are they know? What about slavery, which continues till the end of 19th
century? Was there a country that killed his own citizens during a stupid
civil war for the sake of "long live slavery" or am I wrong? Where is the
Arab people once upon a time living in the lands where Israel founded now?
What was the purpose of crusades? There were at least 4 of them, right?
Where are the Aztec, Maya and Inca civilizations now? There was a country of
which the main government politics is based on racism, at the far and of the
Africa, and the centurymeter was still pointing number 20, right? What was
going on in India in 1940's? and all other "colonies"? since 1600s? Why
black people in US protests Cosby Show and say that it is not representing
the general life conditions of black people? Why do you have a term like
"politically correct"? Why using the totally different meaning word
"niggard" causes some trouble inside a black population? Who was the
supporters of Taliban against the "evil communist" government of
Afghanistan? How was the life of an average afghan now? Is there a great
ally of US who even could buy F-15s and F-18s from it and executing prisons
(of Islamic regulations) at the same time, by cutting their head off (one
arm first, then the second arm, then head), or by throwing stones to their
till the neck burred bodies? What does "Wilson Principles" of 1920s say
about Palestinians? The same things that said for Armenia and Kurdistan? So
why it doesn't say it so loudly, so everyone could hear? What was the
promises of Germany about the great holocaust during WWII? Provision for
"neonazis" of today who burns Turkish families right in their homes?
The list can go till the infinity. What I'm trying to say is, what if
government of my country done something bad in the past?..What's the
point?..My answer could easily be: "Hmmm...maybe. I'm not proud of it. But
also I'm not sorry about it. Because I didn't do it. Thanks for making it
remembered, but sorry, I don't care"
Yes, this is the simple way, although it is true. So, read below.
Ottoman Empire did nothing to the Armenian minority, except driving them
away from their homes, since they had started an armed rebellion with the
help of Russian Empire against the Turkish people also native to the same
lands. What the Ottoman Empire did was a normal precaution that any
government could take under the same conditions. It is true that, during the
long voyage, many of them died on the roads, because of the very bad
conditions, but remember that during the same dates, hundreds of thousands
of Turkish soldiers also dying form cold, illness, and starvation; not from
enemy fire, at the eastern front. I mean, Ottoman didn't cause Armenians
suffering from the utilities that could be supplied. Government had no power
even to supply its own soldiers. There was no genocide or holocaust ever.
Everything could be seen different if not the whole, but only one or several
descriptive conditions are considered, and this is much more likely than
having a more objective point of view, if concluder is thousands of miles
away from the "live"
By the way, the above sentences are the excerpts from the research of the
subject by independent, and mostly non-Turkish historians, it is not the
"legal" history. I hate any kind of ideology that tried to be imposed by my
stupid government, so I generally prefer to read, and generally by from
foreign writers/researchers/etc. "The Armenian Genocide" theory is not being
reheated and serviced as frequent as in the past, so even they might start
seeing the inconsistencies of the theory. Besides inconsistency, it is also
pointless. What's the point, anyway? If the purpose is pushing a bat inside
the turning wheel, try Lego WildWest theme next...:-)
For the PKK conflict, I can only say that WAR is a VERY BAD thing. There is
nothing like war is bad, but this thing about war is good, that thing about
war is bad...there is certainly nothing like that. WAR is TOTALLY HELL, with
all the references to it. You cannot avoid anything bad during war
conditions. People dying from everywhere. soldiers, terrorists,
civilians,...And I closely know many people who were directly in this
savage, and some of them are not living now. I really don't know who started
this conflict, and how, and why...But it is here. In the middle of nowhere.
People from both sides lost their best friends in their own arms, and you
can expect anything from each of them. Try watching Platoon or Full Metal
Jacket again. I'm sure you will understand what I mean then, if you don't
already know it. The first thing that have been lost with war, is innocence.
I'm not sure about anything about the conflict except one: PKK is TERRORIST.
that's all..
By the way, if you are trying to find the "guilty" of a conflict, try
considering who has profits from the situation first.
regards,
Selçuk
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