 | | Re: We'll take in your poor, your homeless, your oppressed...
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(...) If you'll modify that to "some" rather than "much", I'll agree (mostly support to him being a thorn in the side of Ayatollah wackos in Iran, but then, there's a certain sense of deja vu in the U.S. screwing around with things there, too). (...) (20 years ago, 7-Jul-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: We'll take in your poor, your homeless, your oppressed...
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(...) Yeah. You know, this whole topic would be easier if one of two things would happen: either privatize the armed services -- eliminating any need to deal with this kind of situation any differently than any other contractual obligation, or (...) (20 years ago, 7-Jul-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: We'll take in your poor, your homeless, your oppressed...
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(...) yet (...) assert that (...) desertion. (...) of (...) up. (...) Hmm, interesting question. I tend to feel that you should have known what was possible before signing up. Anyone who is active now has had an opportunity to bail out, or should (...) (20 years ago, 7-Jul-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: We'll take in your poor, your homeless, your oppressed...
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(...) Much of which he did with US support. (...) Seriously, was he any worse in 2003 than some of the human rights abusers Bush supports today? I’m talking about countries like Saudi Arabia, Israel, Azerbaijan and Uzbekistan. Scott A (...) (20 years ago, 7-Jul-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: We'll take in your poor, your homeless, your oppressed...
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(...) Why? I find myself with complicated reactions to the situation that I haven't yet worked through. Were they dodging slavery (the draft), then I would assert that they had the moral high ground and I would be supportive of their desertion. But (...) (20 years ago, 7-Jul-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Win-win-win?
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(...) Well that has failed. The WMD are apparently AWOL, the whole country looks like a giant terrorist recruiting centre and it is clear that the "threat" to us all is (URL) increasing>! (...) Yep. We killed >10,000, put new torturers in the (...) (20 years ago, 7-Jul-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: Fair use and allusion?
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(...) Yeah, I'm with John! What does it matter if Americans die needlessly and have their resources wasted as long as it is happening Out of Sight! ;-) Hunky-dory. No relation to Shiri Dori. Or were you being ebonical? -->Bruce<-- (20 years ago, 6-Jul-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: We'll take in your poor, your homeless, your oppressed...
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(...) That he is a genocidal tyrant that has additionally invaded two of his neighbors soley to steal their resources springs to mind. Or are you saying that Saddam's actions are "just"? (...) Unjust things happen during any war - however, from a (...) (20 years ago, 6-Jul-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: We'll take in your poor, your homeless, your oppressed...
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(...) Would you mind providing why you think this? I think we'd all agree that war, all things being equal, tends to be unjust. Furthermore, Saddam was the recognized (by us) legitimate ruler of a sovereign nation. He did thumb his nose at UN (...) (20 years ago, 6-Jul-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: We'll take in your poor, your homeless, your oppressed...
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(...) It's stupid, it's not what we claim it's about, it's presentation of the facts are wrong, it's not worth our effort, there are better things for us to pursue, and I can go on and on. But overthrowing Saddam in itself is not "unjust". (...) (20 years ago, 6-Jul-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Fair use and allusion?
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(...) Oh that's simple then--there's the base line right there! We can kick at the ant hill all we want and so long as the ants don't come and attack us directly, then things are honkey dory! We can get the hornets all nice and angry by throwing (...) (20 years ago, 6-Jul-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | We'll take in your poor, your homeless, your oppressed...
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Your sons and daughters who don't want to go to Iraq to die in an unjust war... (URL) legalities aside, do soldiers have a right to 'get out' if they feel that a war their particular country is fighting is unjust? Was there another way out for these (...) (20 years ago, 6-Jul-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Fair use and allusion?
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(...) I'm talking about *today* (...) I mean Bush has engineered a situation whereby OBL’s foot soldiers are apparently crawling all over Iraq... a country apparently full of WMD! (...) Nice try. I did not say that. (What is your point?) (...) I (...) (20 years ago, 6-Jul-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: Fair use and allusion?
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(...) Along with everybody else. (...) What exactly do you mean? Yes, there are terrorists there to attack Americans. But can you not see that we are not the only targets? What if, tomorrow, we were to evacuate completely from Iraq? Do you think (...) (20 years ago, 6-Jul-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: Fair use and allusion?
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(...) If you do think he had WMD, are you not concerned that Bush has engineered a situation whereby OBL’s foot soldiers are apparently crawling all over the country? Scott A (20 years ago, 6-Jul-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: Fair use and allusion?
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(...) I stand corrected. I noticed my gaff after I posted:-( Though it isn't your stance, it is a common misconception that is held. I apologize for attributing it to you:-) (...) Our main objective was eliminating a dangerous threat in the person (...) (20 years ago, 6-Jul-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: Fair use and allusion?
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(...) John, don't be silly. (URL) Bush has no interest in democracy>. (...) Saddam held "elections" after he installed himself too. ;) (...) I note you do not counter my argument. (...) I note you do not counter my argument. (...) I note you do not (...) (20 years ago, 5-Jul-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: Fair use and allusion?
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(...) No. We replaced an errant CIA stooge with a compliant one. ;) (...) Read (URL): Many Iraqis believe the decision to launch military action against the regime of Saddam Hussein was unwarranted, according to a poll by Oxford Research (...) (20 years ago, 5-Jul-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: Fair use and allusion?
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(...) Actually, I'd say your misquote of me is the gross distortion (see the first line in the quote sequence for the correct claim). :-) (...) I still don't see what your point is here beyond controlling that flow (your original point was how it (...) (20 years ago, 4-Jul-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: Knights' Kingdom™ is ugly.
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(...) Sorry about that; I didn't mean to rip on Playmobil. I do think they're a nice toy, just not as fun as LEGO. That's why I added the "on acid" part. (20 years ago, 3-Jul-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | I fear we are about to create yet another martyr.
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(...) My comment was also meant to cover expedient “trial” of the chap caught abusing prisoners in Iraq… I think it lasted ~1 hour. (...) I don't have time to list my concerns about SH’s appearance yesterday. It is suffice to say that I have yet to (...) (20 years ago, 2-Jul-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: Fair use and allusion?
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(...) Sovereign, maybe, democratic no way. At least until proper elections take place, Iraq is still a technical dictatorship. So call it whatever else you want to at this stage. (...) You may be right, but I wouldn't be so vehement in condemning (...) (20 years ago, 2-Jul-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: Fair use and allusion?
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(...) Awww. "Haliburton" again???? (...) Awww. More "puppet" talk? (...) We always could, even from SH if we wanted! (...) But that is precisely my point-- OBL was acting independently from the policies of his country, so equating the nationality of (...) (20 years ago, 2-Jul-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: Fair use and allusion?
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(...) At the request of the sovereign, democratic nation of Iraq. (...) Look again. You'll see elections are on the horizon-- a concept quite foreign to dictators. (...) I have no response to the ignorance of this one. (...) If that is not the (...) (20 years ago, 2-Jul-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: Fair use and allusion?
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(...) The last time I looked Bush: had ~140,000 troops in Iraq. had installed a dictator in iraq. was conducting show trials there. If that is not control, what is? (...) ...and where is that oil flowing to? Your "SUV" perhaps? (...) I'm not (...) (20 years ago, 2-Jul-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: Fair use and allusion?
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(...) John's right. Haliburton will make it's money just from infrastructure contracts, the oil in this case is almost secondary. And anyway, the puppet democrazy that we establish isn't going to be hostile to us even if the people are. So we'll get (...) (20 years ago, 2-Jul-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: Fair use and allusion?
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(...) Oh well, I guess the US should just try to take over the whole world now - they have no more credibility to lose. ROSCO (20 years ago, 2-Jul-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: Fair use and allusion?
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(...) Fine; put it this way: there are a great deal of countries on both sides. Saying "the world clearly thinks it isn't obvious" is a gross distortion. (...) Not controlling the flow of oil (or do you have cites for that?), but enabling the free (...) (20 years ago, 2-Jul-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: Some wins for freedom from the Supremes
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(...) Hmmmm appears I may have got some suspect intelligence on that one. ROSCO (20 years ago, 2-Jul-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: Fair use and allusion?
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(...) Yep, just got back from camping and I sees that the Lie-berals managed to squeak thru. Now with the wonderfulness that is a 'minority gov't', Canada can possibly look forward to another election within two years (the longest minority gov't in (...) (20 years ago, 1-Jul-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: Some wins for freedom from the Supremes
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(...) Bush Jr: "freedom is beautiful". Scott A (...) (20 years ago, 1-Jul-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: Some wins for freedom from the Supremes
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(...) Not sure (URL) he> was ever there, but he's not there now... "In June 2003, Padilla was designated an enemy combatant at the order of President George W. Bush. As as result of this designation, he was removed from the U.S. criminal justice (...) (20 years ago, 1-Jul-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: Some wins for freedom from the Supremes
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(...) (Puts on pedantic hat again) I believe there has been at least one US citizen at said club, name of Jose Padilla, but maybe he has been moved? ROSCO (20 years ago, 30-Jun-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: Some wins for freedom from the Supremes
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(...) Mmmm, and just when I was thinking that we should quit the allegiance to the Queen thingie, and get all republicy. Particularly me with my pro-Irish sentiments. It turns out that we have already essentially signed up as a US state (and a (...) (20 years ago, 30-Jun-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: Some wins for freedom from the Supremes
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(...) Mmmmmm. I think that terrorist organisations the world over probably each have something similar in their manifesto. Richard Still baldly going... (20 years ago, 30-Jun-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Some wins for freedom from the Supremes
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(...) SH would have far too much to say. I'll eat my hat if we get to hear his defence before the US elections... Bush has too much to hide. (...) Yes. But they may have been asked to ask. ;) The (URL) ICRC> may have helped things along: "Washington (...) (20 years ago, 30-Jun-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: Some wins for freedom from the Supremes
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(...) I see your point; I suppose I have more faith in your countrymen's self-respect. ;) Anyhow, without the support of Tony B.Liar et al it is doubtful that Bush would be in the mess he is today. The past week or so has shown that his (& the (...) (20 years ago, 29-Jun-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Fair use and allusion?
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(...) Looks like you were wrong ;) I'm anxiously awaiting our own federal election some time later this year. What with that, a US election in Nov, and Tony Blair showing a bit of spirit, maybe the world will seem a different place next year. Then (...) (20 years ago, 30-Jun-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: Some wins for freedom from the Supremes
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(...) Well, Hussein hasn't been charged yet either, and it's arguable whether or not he will get a "fair & open" trial, but I find it amazing how the US is falling over itself to hand him over, while the Cuba detainees sit & wait for a tribunal that (...) (20 years ago, 30-Jun-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: Some wins for freedom from the Supremes
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(...) I have hopes for Ralph's Son, Uri Nader -lenny (20 years ago, 29-Jun-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Some wins for freedom from the Supremes
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(...) But what you don't understand is that this is an asset. Unencumbered by world regard, we can do anything, anywhere. Who's going to stop us? Chris (20 years ago, 29-Jun-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Some wins for freedom from the Supremes
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(...) ...meanwhile, the USA's reputation overseas nosedives. Scott A (20 years ago, 29-Jun-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Some wins for freedom from the Supremes
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I think it is time Oz re-joined the Empire. ;) Scott A (20 years ago, 29-Jun-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: Some wins for freedom from the Supremes
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(...) Some quick research turns up that I am a little out of date - he's been (URL) charged> now. Its an interesting document. The rest of the summary seems pretty much spot on. (URL) seems to have been more or less the state of play before the (...) (20 years ago, 29-Jun-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: Some wins for freedom from the Supremes
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(...) I don't think Bush'll be in trouble over this one. He can just smirk out of the TV at us and say that 'Merica was made safer for the three or four years that they were held illegally and that he was willing to do whatever it took. Many of my (...) (20 years ago, 29-Jun-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Some wins for freedom from the Supremes
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(...) Gawd! If you're presenting an accurate view, that really is disgusting. They should have demanded their people back long ago. Chris (20 years ago, 29-Jun-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: Some wins for freedom from the Supremes
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(...) Yup. Indeed, as I understand it Australia is one of the few (perhaps the only) country with nationals involved who has NOT asked for them back. Apparently at the time our dudes did whatever undisclosed thing that they may at some stage be (...) (20 years ago, 29-Jun-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: Some wins for freedom from the Supremes
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(...) Tony B.Liar may be up for re-election next year. His closeness to Bush has become a major electoral (URL). To mitigate this, he is trying show he is not 100% lapdog. As a result, the UK Attorney General noisily (and rightly) (URL) rejected> (...) (20 years ago, 29-Jun-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: Some wins for freedom from the Supremes
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(...) I get the feeling Bush has painted himself into a corner with this one: If he releases these guys people will wonder why they were ever held to start with. If these guys do get their day in court, it is clear that the "evidence" will be (...) (20 years ago, 29-Jun-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: Some wins for freedom from the Supremes
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(...) (URL) David Hicks to serve any sentence in Australia>, these questionable detentions seem to be heading in the right direction. Let's hope the Military Tribunals do not end up being (URL) show trials>. ROSCO (20 years ago, 28-Jun-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Some wins for freedom from the Supremes
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|
3 important cases today, although one would wish for wider findings (as always) (URL) (20 years ago, 28-Jun-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Robbery, Reconstruction or Quagmire?
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(...) I expect you are correct. I was trying to highlight the chaos in Iraq to show how little Iraqis are benefiting from the billions of $$$ which are being transferred to Bush’s corporate buddies in their name. Scott A (...) (20 years ago, 28-Jun-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: Taking the bait (was Re: Fair use and allusion?)
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(...) (much snippage) (...) Ok, fair enough. I will try to do better going forward. (...) Here's someone else that just popped up making the same, or a similar, point. (URL) (20 years ago, 28-Jun-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Fair use and allusion?
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(...) So what about Saudi Arabia? It seems like you keep dodging the fact that SA is a much, much, much more significant player than Iraq given the very criteria that you just listed. Do you imagine that it could have anything to do with the very (...) (20 years ago, 28-Jun-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| |
| | Re: Robbery, Reconstruction or Quagmire?
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I find myself largely in agreement with Scott. But there is this: (...) Actually, they leave them because when the truck gets a flat in an insecure zone, they would rather torch the truck and leave it a flaming wreck than have their personnel (...) (20 years ago, 28-Jun-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: Fair use and allusion?
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(...) It did. (...) Sure, let's get rid of the veto. Lets go back and look at all the resolutions against Israel. Would the NeoCons in Washington like that? Scott A (20 years ago, 28-Jun-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: Fair use and allusion?
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|
(...) Add to that the UK and a growing number of your own countrymen. (...) ...and Bush wanted to remove him at the expense of the Iraqi people. Scott A (20 years ago, 28-Jun-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Robbery, Reconstruction or Quagmire?
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|
(...) John, do you really believe this codswallop? This (URL) article> argues that security costs are eating up 25% of reconstruction contracts and that insurance brokers selling sudden-death policies to contractors in Iraq have doubled their (...) (20 years ago, 28-Jun-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| |
| | Re: Fair use and allusion?
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(...) Name all those that you feel see it as "obvious", subtract that from everyone else, and you will have "a great deal". (...) Seems obvious even to you that is NOT about freeing the people of Iraq, but controlling the flow of oil (which was (...) (20 years ago, 28-Jun-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: Fair use and allusion?
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(...) That seems to imply you think the current war wasn't a legitimate opportunity. But I know that can't be right... ROSCO (20 years ago, 28-Jun-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: Fair use and allusion?
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(...) "A great deal"?, or mostly France and Germany (who had national interests in seeing SH remain in power-- at the expense of the Iraqi people). (...) I think everyone would agree that the free flow of oil is in the best interests of our country (...) (20 years ago, 28-Jun-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: Fair use and allusion?
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(...) No. And the "no" answer should be obvious because clearly a great deal of the world clearly thinks it isn't obvious. We are fighting for what Bush's crowd thinks is "our" (U.S.) interests, or would like us to believe is our (no quotes) (...) (20 years ago, 27-Jun-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: Fair use and allusion?
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(...) You are either not listening or being deliberately obtuse. We did not start a war with the people of Iraq; we simply deposed their oppressive government whom we perceived as a potential threat. We are fighting for Iraq, not against Iraq. Isn't (...) (20 years ago, 27-Jun-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: Costs and Benefits
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|
(...) Students get money for basics; food, accommodation, travel to Uni, etc. (...) I have no idea what the costs are in the USA… sorry! (...) An educated workforce makes investment more likely. Scott A (...) (20 years ago, 27-Jun-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Fair use and allusion?
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(...) Um, I wasn't even there! Soo, do you have a cite for that???(1) (grins, ducks, runs). (...) 1 - that's my roundabout way of admitting that maybe, just maybe, a valid point has been made by Dave! (20 years ago, 27-Jun-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: Fair use and allusion?
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(...) I like your idea of fighting back--Larry punches me in the face so, using 'John Logic', I'd punch, well, John in the face. Iraq didn't provoke you. There were no Iraqi's responsible for 9/11. There were, however, a large number of Saudis. Iraq (...) (20 years ago, 27-Jun-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: Fair use and allusion?
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(...) YOU: "See, it was perpetrated on us by those dirty, little, brown people from (flutters hand in silly gesture) over there. I mean, come on...they all look and sound alike. So you see, we're justified to attack any nation full of brown people (...) (20 years ago, 27-Jun-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| |
| | Re: Fair use and allusion?
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(...) You gotta love the friendliest place on the internet... Chris (20 years ago, 26-Jun-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: Costs and Benefits
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|
(...) Well, sure. I wrote that I was making up the numbers. What exactly do you mean? (...) What's that mean? (...) Well, yeah, so you're agreeing with my number? (...) Right. I don't know. And I don't know how much it would change as the university (...) (20 years ago, 26-Jun-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| |
| | Re: Fair use and allusion?
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(...) We are talking about different things. I was speaking about the war on terrorism in general; the fight against Muslim extremists who have been murdering innocents around the world for some time now. War was "declared" on the world a long time (...) (20 years ago, 26-Jun-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: Fair use and allusion?
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(...) Speaking of rewriting history.... (...) I meant that we finally started fighting back with 9-11. (...) Well, Chris, I guess you are entitled to your opinion, no matter how stupid and offensive it is. JOHN (20 years ago, 26-Jun-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: Costs and Benefits
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|
(...) That does not have to be the case. (...) Don’t forget a means tested term-time subsistence grant. (...) I'm really talking about 4 year degree courses. If we set a target of 50% of the population going to Uni, then the average would be two (...) (20 years ago, 26-Jun-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Customer tracking at LEGOLand
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It looks like this is a followup to this (URL) a couple months ago, but I just found this (URL) and thought the negative implications of market research under the guise of keeping families together were interesting. I'm setting FUT to l.o-t.d since (...) (20 years ago, 26-Jun-04, to lugnet.legoland, lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Costs and Benefits
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(...) The way I figure it, you should only be looking at an individual's consumption and 'payback.' I'll use what I consider pretty conservative figures so that the fact that I'm just making numbers up won't paint a rosier picture than is (...) (20 years ago, 26-Jun-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Fair use and allusion?
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(...) And besides, we started that war too. (...) I'm pretty sure that John _does_ mean they started it with 9/11. To claim that there were no Iraqis involved really misses the point, I think. See, it was perpetrated on us by those dirty, little, (...) (20 years ago, 26-Jun-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Costs and Benefits
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|
(...) Careful with financial assessments of the costs of the war. Generally they tally what was spent by the government, not the cost. What of the externalised costs borne by others? The value of the lost American lives (the cost of which is borne (...) (20 years ago, 26-Jun-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: Costs and Benefits
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(...) Tiny? Really? Ok, what would "free university tuition" cost per household? What would the benefits be? Compare that to this war. Scott A (...) (20 years ago, 26-Jun-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: Fair use and allusion?
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|
(...) You can rewrite history all you want but your adminisgtration *did* start this war--The US invaded Iraq. Iraq being a sovereign nation at the time that made no direct threats towards the US, no matter what the US administration wanted the (...) (20 years ago, 25-Jun-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| |
| | Re: Fair use and allusion?
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(...) Beg pardon? The war in Iraq? Dubya absolutely did begin that war, and he is directly and personally responsible for every death and injury resulting from it. (...) If the quagmire lasts as long as it is likely to last, then those minors are (...) (20 years ago, 25-Jun-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: Taking the bait (was Re: Fair use and allusion?)
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(...) Why is that my task? I'm not asserting that your claim is false but rather that your assertions don't support it. (...) That, too, may be a matter of perspective. If your claim is that Moore is not factual, then you must document his (...) (20 years ago, 25-Jun-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: Fair use and allusion?
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(...) Leahy could induce even the Pope to curse;-) JOHN (20 years ago, 25-Jun-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: Fair use and allusion?
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(...) They are a part of it only insofar as we have started to fight back. We did not begin this war. (...) Perhaps, but minors are not those people. JOHN (20 years ago, 25-Jun-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: Costs and Benefits
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(...) Hmmm, I've got the impression that if 3400 USD worth of LEGO suddenly appeared in your basement, you might not even notice. I'm insanely jealous, by the way. ;^) (20 years ago, 25-Jun-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Costs and Benefits
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(...) Ya, but is this war, on balance, worth more to me than a month of private schooling? I'm not sure. Both of these things have very hard to measure benefits. I'd suggest we compare against 3400 USD worth of LEGO (where the benefits are (...) (20 years ago, 25-Jun-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Costs and Benefits
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(...) Doesn't sound right. That figure is tiny compared to some of the ideas proposed here, such as free university tuition. I think you could only get about a month of schooling at a private university for that price. (You can't compare to tuition (...) (20 years ago, 25-Jun-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Fair use and allusion?
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(...) I'd agree with this, it's not in contention. (since I am one of the members of the set of people you describe) (...) Fair enough. I took your meaning as: "to be taken seriously by others" which I think is a reasonable meaning to have taken, (...) (20 years ago, 25-Jun-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: Fair use and allusion?
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(...) Here's the bit in question, if I'm reading you correctly: Stop by the website of the American Nationalist Union if you want to see some serious, non-Democrat criticism of Dubya. My use of "serious" in this context coincides with (URL) this (...) (20 years ago, 25-Jun-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: Fair use and allusion?
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(...) I misunderstood what you meant by "serious" then, or you misused the word. (20 years ago, 25-Jun-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: Taking the bait (was Re: Fair use and allusion?)
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(...) OK, The support needed is rather different, though. You need to support with logic that my characterisations of Moore somehow falsify what I said.\ I need to support by showing that Moore isn't factual, and that his assertions don't follow (...) (20 years ago, 25-Jun-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: Fair use and allusion?
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(...) (URL) Hot off the presses!> Our Copresident seems to embrace a colorful rhetorical style that could cause he Congressional record to lose its "PG" rating. I wonder--will Cheney be forced by the FCC to pay an unreasonably huge fine because of (...) (20 years ago, 25-Jun-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: Fair use and allusion?
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(...) Ah, I see. Sorry. I thought you meant that the group opposed the airing of the film itself, rather than the commercials advertising for the film. I'll need to think about that. (...) Moore's actions may collaterally support Kerry, but Moore (...) (20 years ago, 25-Jun-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Costs and Benefits
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If the cost is (URL) $3,400> per household, what is the value of the benefits? Scott A (20 years ago, 25-Jun-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: Fair use of designer shirts?
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(...) I enjoyed (URL) this> about the same group. Scott A (20 years ago, 25-Jun-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: Fair use and allusion?
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(...) Heh. No--I only found the site at all because some well-meaning activist left a copy of the organization's newsletter on my windshield, and I was so horrified by the xenophobia and isolationism that I couldn't resist visiting the site itself. (...) (20 years ago, 25-Jun-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: Taking the bait (was Re: Fair use and allusion?)
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(...) Because the willful choice not to support your argument is indistinguishable from forfeiting the argument, I accept this as your forfeiture. If it is not your intent to forfeit, then I invite you to support your argument, as you have demanded (...) (20 years ago, 25-Jun-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: One world order is a pipe dream (was Re: UN Gets It Right!)
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(...) Seriously, only a thinker could come up with such a strategy. (...) It is also commonly applied in classroom management and even juvenile delinquency rehabilitation. It's an awsomely powerful technique that reinforces the notion that kids will (...) (20 years ago, 25-Jun-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: Fair use and allusion?
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(...) Wow that's a 1st. My firewall thinks that site is too "aggressive" for my innocent eyes... Dave, are you trying to radicalise us? Scott A (...) (20 years ago, 25-Jun-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | I'm sure MM is loving this!
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(...) I'd only have a problem with this if the advert's content subjectively criticises Bush's record. Does it? If I were you, I'd be more concerned about bias in the news media. I read (URL) yesterday> that after spending $80,000,000(1) on an (...) (20 years ago, 25-Jun-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: One world order is a pipe dream (was Re: UN Gets It Right!)
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(...) You could well be right. I don't know who came up with it. I recall being a bit surprised myself the first time I heard it being applied in practice. Since then I have seen it work successfully on a factory floor, in a sales force, and in a (...) (20 years ago, 25-Jun-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: Fair use and allusion?
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(...) (snip) (...) I think your analogy is faulty. The group is specifically concerned about TV commercial time. (...) I can't remember where I heard this, and my attempts to locate the info were unsuccessful. Let me get back to you on that if I (...) (20 years ago, 25-Jun-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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