Subject:
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Re: Fair use and allusion?
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Newsgroups:
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lugnet.off-topic.debate
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Date:
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Sun, 27 Jun 2004 18:40:06 GMT
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Viewed:
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1039 times
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In lugnet.off-topic.debate, David Koudys wrote:
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In lugnet.off-topic.debate, John Neal wrote:
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In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Christopher L. Weeks wrote:
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In lugnet.off-topic.debate, David Koudys wrote:
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In lugnet.off-topic.debate, John Neal wrote:
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They are a part of it only insofar as we have started to fight back. We
did not begin this war.
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You can rewrite history all you want but your adminisgtration *did* start
this war--The US invaded Iraq. Iraq being a sovereign nation at the time
that made no direct threats towards the US, no matter what the US
administration wanted the world to think. And you can’t bring up Kuwait
‘cause that was dispensed with in the ‘90’s.
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And besides, we started that war too.
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Speaking of rewriting history....
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Give *any* shred of direct Iraqi threat towards the US that you can hang
this war on. Any. 9/11? No Iraqis there.
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I’m pretty sure that John does mean they started it with 9/11.
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I meant that we finally started fighting back with 9-11.
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I like your idea of fighting back--Larry punches me in the face so, using
‘John Logic’, I’d punch, well, John in the face.
Iraq didn’t provoke you.
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You are either not listening or being deliberately obtuse. We did not start a
war with the people of Iraq; we simply deposed their oppressive government whom
we perceived as a potential threat. We are fighting for Iraq, not against
Iraq. Isn’t this obvious?
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There were no Iraqi’s responsible for 9/11. There
were, however, a large number of Saudis.
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Terrorists’ nationalities are by and large a moot point. OBL was a Saudi--
should we attack SA? Of course not. He’s actually an enemy of SA as well.
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Iraq was breaking a UN resolution. The UN sent Blix in there. If you don’t
like how the UN conducts its business, then as you stated, get out of it, but
more importantly, you can’t then use UN resolutions as a pretext for
invasion.
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No, what you can’t do is to defend the UN and ignore the stated
ramifications of violating Res 1441. The UN is impotent and useless.
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You keep on bringing up 9/11 as justification for this war--“We finally
started fighting back due to 9/11.”
Well, the terrorists were mostly Saudis. I’m waiting for that one.
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Fine. As I stated before, it is irrelevant.
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Though I
think we’ll ahve a long wait ‘cause iirc the prez and VP have many monetary
ties to that particular section of the world.
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Really? And they are the only ones, hmmm? I’m sorry to say that this
argument is silly and should be left to the serious silly attackers such as MM.
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And you can’t bring up SH being a tyrannical dictator for your justification
either.
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Of course I can.
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Africa over the years had much such tyrannies where ‘tinpot
dictators’ slaughters masses of people and yet you sat on your hands (in a US
administration sense). Why Iraq?
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OIL, DAVE. OIL! Isn’t it obvious???
As opposed to after some calamity?
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There’s no legitimate
explanation. There really isn’t.
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Because you refuse to look past your blinkers.
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The explanation everyone besides those
inside the US and Mr. Blair see is that SH was a ‘burr under Dubya’s saddle’.
If there had been *anyone else*, and I would hazard a guess even any other
Republican, that Iraq wouldn’t have been focused on. I somehow doubt that
Dole would have instigated this atrocity, though I can’t speak for him.
You want everything your way--you want the idea that you dislike the UN and
the US should get out of it but you’ll use their resolutions to invade, even
though the UN didn’t want you to. You want to blame SH for 9/11
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NO! You aren’t paying attention!!!!
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even though
there were no Iraqis taking over planes and flying them into buildings. YOu
want to stay on friendly terms with Saudia Arabia bacuase, well, your two
countries get along just fine thank you very much but you conveniently ignore
the major 9/11 threat was, in fact, Saudis. But some lackey in Iraq talked
to OBL so there must be a connection--let’s invade!! You “know” that there
were WoMD in Iraq and you’ll use that as an excuse even though a) Blix was
mandated by the UN to look for them
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NO! He was mandated to verify that SH had destroyed WMDs he was KNOWN to
have possessed. You aren’t paying attention!
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before your war kicked him out of the
country and b) your very own country gavbe those WoMD to SH for your little
tiff with Iran decades back, so the WoMD have been ‘sitting there’ for a long
long time, but no invasion until now. You want to use the ‘torture chambers’
of Saddam as justification but you wnat to forget about the prison scandals
the American soldiers perpetrated. No you do--“SH was sooo much worse!!”
Yeah, the lesser of two evils, that gets my vote. You want people to state
that their behind this war or you’ll label them ‘lovers of Saddam’, as if
there is no other way of handling the issue.
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I’m all ears. What other options were there?
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You still want to say that SH
could have attacked the US even though not one of Iraqs planes got off the
ground and they couldn’t fire a missle a few hundred miles outside their
borders.
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We were worried about him providing WMDs to terrorists, not any attack from
him.
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And my personal favourite--You want to bring peace and freedom to Iraq even
if it kills ‘em. Peace and freedom has to come within a country.
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And it will-- hopefully. We just gave the Iraqis a little gift of cutting off
the head of their oppressive government. The rest will be up to them.
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You’re talking out of both sides of your mouth on this one,
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No, Dave. I am saying one thing, and you are putting words into my mouth
saying another.
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and so is Dubya
and Cheney. It’s amazing when folks start picking at the lies and deceit
that Dubya and Cheney get more abrupt and hostile.
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No, it’s when the opposition gets so rude and disrespectful. Leahy is an ass--
take that to the bank.
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I personally believe that
one of them will come apart at the seams. Cheney swearing is just the
beginning.
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I think your wishful thinking is again getting the better of you.
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I hope the pressure keeps on until these guys come out with the
truth--that Dubya wanted to finish ‘daddys little war’
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What on earth are you blathering about? And for the record, Bush senior would
have finished off SH then and there were it not for the UN. When it comes to
global conflict, the UN is impotent and useless.
(snip)
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Anyway, it’s late, I’m tired, and after Monday I fear we’re going to have a
gov’t in power that’s actually pro Dubya and Iraq war and I’ll hang my head
in shame for being in a country that caved into the war mongering.
I hope I’m wrong but I highly doubt it. Fractious times, people...
Fractious times.
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When have they ever not been thus?
JOHN
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Message has 2 Replies:
 | | Re: Fair use and allusion?
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| (...) No. And the "no" answer should be obvious because clearly a great deal of the world clearly thinks it isn't obvious. We are fighting for what Bush's crowd thinks is "our" (U.S.) interests, or would like us to believe is our (no quotes) (...) (20 years ago, 27-Jun-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
| | | Robbery, Reconstruction or Quagmire?
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| (...) John, do you really believe this codswallop? This (URL) article> argues that security costs are eating up 25% of reconstruction contracts and that insurance brokers selling sudden-death policies to contractors in Iraq have doubled their (...) (20 years ago, 28-Jun-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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Message is in Reply To:
| | Re: Fair use and allusion?
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| (...) I like your idea of fighting back--Larry punches me in the face so, using 'John Logic', I'd punch, well, John in the face. Iraq didn't provoke you. There were no Iraqi's responsible for 9/11. There were, however, a large number of Saudis. Iraq (...) (20 years ago, 27-Jun-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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