 | | Re: Bummer of the Week: LEGO Made in China
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(...) Sorry for following myself up but I must say I stand corrected about Dave's meaning. I wasn't too sure I should have put words in his mouth and now it seems the words were wrong in the first place. Sorry All, I never really wanted to open the (...) (23 years ago, 6-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Bummer of the Week: LEGO Made in China
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(...) Well, now I've started I may as well get fully involved in .debate! Shaun You may like to consider separating British Military presence (which began in the early 1970's at the request of the Catholic community to protect them from Protestant (...) (23 years ago, 6-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Bummer of the Week: LEGO Made in China
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(...) Yeah--call that some ham-fisted wording on my part. I was trying to isolate it to a theological dispute, but of course that very dispute stems from the occupation. So stipulated! (...) The basis of that claim is a failure to articulate what I (...) (23 years ago, 6-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Bummer of the Week: LEGO Made in China
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(...) (23 years ago, 6-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Bummer of the Week: LEGO Made in China
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In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Dave Schuler writes: [snip] (...) Hi Dave, The above comment really caught me by surprise - I've never before heard of any theory or perspective that could justifiably separate the Catholic/Protestant friction in Northern (...) (23 years ago, 6-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Bummer of the Week: LEGO Made in China
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(...) Fair enough--I posted my message before you had explained your intention. (...) Perhaps something along the lines of "In my experience, products manufactured in China sometimes display less tightly-controlled standards of quality, such that (...) (23 years ago, 6-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Views on asylum seekers?
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(...) I just learned that Baltimore had a homesteading project whereby people could buy derelict houses from the city for $1 with the understanding that they would live in them and fix them up. I think that this would be a fantastic option for the (...) (23 years ago, 6-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Bummer of the Week: LEGO Made in China
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(...) I have to confess that my WWII knowledge is somewhat less than exhaustive. However, while I don't deny the importance of the US role, it's tricky to say (although Greg has now clarified that he was being sarcastic) that the US "saved" Europe, (...) (23 years ago, 6-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Bummer of the Week: LEGO Made in China
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(...) Dave - please see my response to Psi ((URL) for my apologies for this statement. I would however ask you to keep in mind that it was made in response to lawrence's sarcastic "thanks" to the U.S. I realize now (as is often the case with what I (...) (23 years ago, 6-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Bummer of the Week: LEGO Made in China
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(...) I agree with the whole point of your note, Dave. But I'm wondering if you really disagree with the Greg's implied stance about the role of the US staving off Germany during WWII. I don't really get off on the US' role in the war, but my (...) (23 years ago, 6-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Views on asylum seekers?
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(...) because (...) In case it's not clear...I would call them safe for everyone...not just refugees. And I think it is up to the individual to determine how much risk they want in their lives. If someone thinks living there is their best option, (...) (23 years ago, 6-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Are we doing the right thing?
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(...) The fact that someone is innocent of those three acts doesn't make them guiltless for any number of others. Is this "butchery" that we're talking about the worst thing that you can imagine? Is it inherently worse than enslaving thousands? (...) (23 years ago, 6-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Bummer of the Week: LEGO Made in China
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(...) Darn it! I just don't know when to stop sometimes. Oh well, I'm sorry for putting you off with my closing statements. They are intended to be completely sarcastic and based on the stereotypical response that you'll get from the average (...) (23 years ago, 6-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Bummer of the Week: LEGO Made in China
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(...) This is questionable. Citing trade sanctions as effective allowed the apartheid regime to save face--it was OK for the conservatives to admit defeat at the hands of the rest of the industrialized First World, but to admit that violence and (...) (23 years ago, 6-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Bummer of the Week: LEGO Made in China
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(...) Please keep in mind what I keep stating - I do not consider myself an "activist" nor am I anyone with any strong political convictions (or understanding - I'm an American after all). So, I do not operate on some Jainistic principle whereby I (...) (23 years ago, 6-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Bummer of the Week: LEGO Made in China
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(...) What a loaded topic I got into. Like you mentioned trade sanctions worked in South Africa, but it haven't worked for Iraq and Cuba. It is doubtful that trade sanctions would bring major positive changes in China. The communist still have tight (...) (23 years ago, 6-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Bummer of the Week: LEGO Made in China
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In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Greg Perry writes: (snipped a great deal of very good points about constructive criticism and reasoned debate) (...) It was all going so well Greg and I respected what you were saying until this point. I think that in (...) (23 years ago, 6-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Bummer of the Week: LEGO Made in China
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(...) Greg: That is the type of comment that frequently--and not always incorrectly--elicits charges of bigotry or at least misguided nationalism. Obviously, I have no idea of the true nature of your real-world feelings, but the tenor of your (...) (23 years ago, 6-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | RE: Bummer of the Week: LEGO Made in China
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(...) Ironically, your favorite toy is sold by all three of those chains, alongside its inferior Canadian competitor... You probably get your storage containers there too (I do). (...) Rampant consumerism...you mean like the average AFOL buying any (...) (23 years ago, 6-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Bummer of the Week: LEGO Made in China
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In lugnet.general, Lawrence Wilkes writes: (snipped) (...) Admittedly, your succint comments provoked certain thoughts about you, your attitude and communication skills. However, despite what you might "think" it didn't in any way make me reconsider (...) (23 years ago, 6-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Bummer of the Week: LEGO Made in China
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"Scott A" <eh105jb@mx1.pair.com> wrote in message news:GJ8yo0.77@lugnet.com... (...) Personally, I do think there is place for individuals not to buy the product of a given company - or specifically favour those from a certain origin. A few years (...) (23 years ago, 6-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Bummer of the Week: LEGO Made in China
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I hear what you are saying - you make some very good points. But lets put China aside for a moment. Do you think we should trade with the very worst of governments in the hope that the revenues empower workers in some small way? Or do you think (...) (23 years ago, 6-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Bummer of the Week: LEGO Made in China
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(...) More or less yes. Your fine product may be assembled in some other country, but it's componets can come from anywhere - from tiny resistors to motors. There is no 'pure' first world electronic products. Also where is your humanitarian concern (...) (23 years ago, 6-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Military Lego Sets
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(...) :) <Smiles at both the monkey comment and the previous head steppin' fiasco> (...) So, Where do you teach at Lindsay? I assume you’re a professor? When you said ‘institution’ I deduced that it’s a school and not a ward!?! ;) --==Richard==-- (23 years ago, 6-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Views on asylum seekers?
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(...) So where do you draw the line? What is "safe for refugees"? What happens when (not if) a house deemed "safe enough" causes injury / death, and the nearest lawyer sues on their behalf? Who foots the bill (for either side)? And do you think (...) (23 years ago, 6-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Are we doing the right thing?
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(...) Forgive my bad ettiquette, but an edit is in order; This sentence should read "Why, those who have in fact butchered, raped, and terrorized." james (23 years ago, 5-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) The presence of gray areas in any moral calculus, i.e., moral conundrums, does not negate moral principles. In some circumstances we do not know what the right thing to do is, but in all circumstances we can determine what is definitely not (...) (23 years ago, 5-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Christopher L. Weeks writes (...) Some would assert that morality is only realized when one's life is on the line. Anyone can be moral while sitting comfortably in an air conditioned apartment; ie, when nothing's at (...) (23 years ago, 5-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Are we doing the right thing?
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(...) disposal (...) OK. (...) But I believe that principles are inconsistent at their heart. (...) If you, your children and the bus driver are trapped under an avalanche and your children are starving, do you kill and serve the driver to avoid (...) (23 years ago, 5-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Views on asylum seekers?
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(...) First of all, there are tons of houses in the US that are going unused because they don't meet the stringent safety laws that we take for granted. But they are a 100% improvement over what these immigrants may be used to...and not really (...) (23 years ago, 5-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Views on asylum seekers?
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(...) Whichever, the argument against detention remains the same I think. The sustainable development question of population carrying capacity/infrastruct...mmigration levels is separate, but certainly related. (...) Here's another perspective, from (...) (23 years ago, 5-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Military Lego Sets
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(...) This isn't a straw man--reading the context and understanding the implications of the charges made, he's faulting Pedro for not invalidating Muslim Spain's relatively peaceful and prosperous existence during even the late stages of the (...) (23 years ago, 5-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Views on asylum seekers?
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(...) I (...) I think we're getting confused between asylum seekers, and refugees here. See below. (...) I don't have anything to back this up except some snippets I've read in newspapers (and we all know how reliable they are), but I think most of (...) (23 years ago, 5-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Views on asylum seekers?
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(...) I'm sure the building industry would be delighted to find room and resources to accomodate new Australians. As for the cost, how about a $14000 new home buyers grant? Seriously, the government is spending a massive amount of money on refugee (...) (23 years ago, 5-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Views on asylum seekers?
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(...) WHERE in the general community? Tents? Caravans? Maybe some can afford houses, but the houses still have to be found. There are currently many thousands in detention centres in Australia, and I dare say many thousands in other places waiting (...) (23 years ago, 5-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Military Lego Sets
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(...) <snippage> (...) Lindsay, Since you are knocking down a straw man of your own creation, it's no wonder that you come out best in this exchange. Victor made NO value judgment on the vices or virtues of any of the combatants on the Iberian (...) (23 years ago, 4-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Military Lego Sets
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In lugnet.loc.pt, Victor Knight writes: (snipped) (...) What?...As if the Christians at the same time did the same... (...) They were not driven out. Who told you that? Where did you get that idea? You can't just "expell" millions of people... They (...) (23 years ago, 4-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Military Lego Sets
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(...) ? Who's sorrowful? Good or bad, it happened; it is the past, and one which I'm proud of. BOTH sides of it. And something I'd like to point out: the Arabs were not "tossed out", as they did not "toss out" the Christians who lived here before (...) (23 years ago, 4-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Are we doing the right thing?
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(...) Chris: With all due respect, I take personal moral umbrage with this statement. You and I have already well-established that our world-views diverge just about as much as any two humans' world-views can, but, I think that this idea is still (...) (23 years ago, 4-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Military Lego Sets
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(...) By "a group that invaded and then was tossed out," I presume you're referring to the Muslims and not the Visigoths? I was trying, in my response, to point out through tit-for-tat that you've made a ridiculous generalization--as though the Arab (...) (23 years ago, 4-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Military Lego Sets
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(...) <junk snipped> You can feel sorry for a group that invaded and then was tossed out if you want, but try not to be so biased and sorrowful in your description. (23 years ago, 4-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Views on asylum seekers?
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(...) As I understand the situation, Australian search and rescue informed nearby ships (including the Tampa, a Norwegian cargo freighter) that an Indonesian vessel was in distress. The Tampa picked up the refugees from their sinking boat in the (...) (23 years ago, 4-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Views on asylum seekers?
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(...) Heck, why not a new newsgroup, lugnet.off-topic.sar...drip.drip? ;) I still disagree, by the way, that people in third world countries are any more responsible for their personal lot than we're each responsible for the prosperity brought by (...) (23 years ago, 4-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Views on asylum seekers?
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(...) And where do they get housed while they're waiting for a house to become available / be built. Remember we're not talking 438 anymore, but maybe millions. And Australias problem isn't limited to 438 either - they've been coming here illegally (...) (23 years ago, 4-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Military Lego Sets
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(...) I knew about the Medieval Inquisition (IIRC, that's the term used)-- but its specifically Spanish incarnation is what I'm talking about when referencing 1478. Or have I missed something else entirely? Ecumenical history is always so fraught (...) (23 years ago, 4-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Military Lego Sets
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(...) Actually and technically, the Inquisition properly so called did not come into existence until 1231, with the constitution Excommunicamus of Pope Gregory IX ‘1478’ was more of an establishment rather that a ‘creation.’ -Richard ‘who had to dig (...) (23 years ago, 3-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Views on asylum seekers?
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(...) Why not crosspost this to .fun? Pedro (23 years ago, 3-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Military Lego Sets
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(...) Quite right. It is always nice to listen to the experts, even more when I like the subject (History + Geography). Ever been to Portugal, Lindsay? We also have some examples of Islamic Art, not as imposing as the Alhambra or Medina-al-zahara, (...) (23 years ago, 3-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Military Lego Sets
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Sorry for the self-followup, but this was bothering me: (...) c/Sixtus V/Sixtus IV. best LFB (23 years ago, 3-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Military Lego Sets
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(...) If you're trolling, you just caught a live one. <sarcasm> Talk about value-laden throwaway lines! Yes, through rape, the Muslim armies of Tarikh ibn Zayid conquered the mighty and highly moral Visigothic kingdoms in Iberia, which were just (...) (23 years ago, 3-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Views on asylum seekers?
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In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Frank Filz writes: [big snip, I agree] (...) Agreed. Further, what would happen if by offering a place to the people of Banana Republic X, we got more than half of them to want to come to the US? Could we charge them the (...) (23 years ago, 3-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Views on asylum seekers?
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(...) Of course if tbey come in and don't respect property rights, they will find themselves detained, and possibly sent back where they came from. (...) And we have demonstrated that such collections are pretty effective, even as people complain (...) (23 years ago, 3-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Are we doing the right thing?
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(...) Indeed. He does not have enough food to feed his kids, and your big worry is how to get to the mall to meet you friends. (...) ... and how does the extra-judicial executions help? How did moving tanks into Beit Jala help? Perhaps the best way (...) (23 years ago, 3-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Cuba
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(...) I assume, after reading you text below, this is a rhetorical question? (...) I try my best Chris. (...) Because is is a argumant which has no logic. (...) By helping force them to leave? (...) I am not "slamming" (or at least I do not mean to) (...) (23 years ago, 3-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Views on asylum seekers?
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(...) Lets put an end to that "rumour": (URL) Minister for Immigration and Multicultural Affairs sought revisions of international refugee standards to deter irregular movements of asylum-seekers. More than 2,940 ''boat people'', including 500 (...) (23 years ago, 3-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Moral or Immoral (was Re: Cuba)
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(...) The speaker/writer. An action is moral to the extent that it satisfies one's sense of aesthetic about how the world should work. So charging interest on a loan is moral to the capitalist who believes that this fuels the economy making greater (...) (23 years ago, 3-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Views on asylum seekers?
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(...) I wouldn't. At least not particularly. I suppose it would be reasonable to donate to some organization that helped them find work. The housing market could supply a place to live. (...) No. That wouldn't be much of a welcome. (...) Maybe...but (...) (23 years ago, 3-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Are we doing the right thing?
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(...) Depends. I try to draw relevance to the here and now, elements of the present-day psyche or political order, whenever possible. (...) You're telling a story, kind of like Grandpa's family lore. It's just on a national--or world--scale. When it (...) (23 years ago, 3-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Moral or Immoral (was Re: Cuba)
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Larry Pieniazek <lpieniazek@mercator.com> wrote in message news:GIsxC4.C4A@lugnet.com... [snipped] (...) well (...) based (...) [snipped] I'm not just picking on Larry here, but I think this is a good time to ask: Moral or immoral according to who? (...) (23 years ago, 3-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Views on asylum seekers?
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(...) I hadn't heard that - and I'm skeptical that would happen, given the position of the government. Here's another story about the court action which has been brought by civil libertarian groups (URL)Australia has many refugee camps where such (...) (23 years ago, 3-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Are we doing the right thing?
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(...) At some point, I wonder why people don't leave dangerous places. (...) That's not nasty at all. I expect you to have a fascinating perspective on the issue. But don't believe for a second that it's an entirely easy thing for me to say. I think (...) (23 years ago, 2-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Are we doing the right thing?
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(...) Don't you, though? It's really cool. He has tons to say. (...) (Not to go off to a tangent, but that's why I had so much fun in my American Studies class, a combination of English and U.S. History... they were two seperate classes but the (...) (23 years ago, 2-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Views on asylum seekers?
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(...) FWIW, I heard on the radio this morning that Australia has agreed to take some of them. (...) Are they being used for slave labor? (...) I personally think that citizenship is a scam. I'd welcome those folks to the US. I guess I suppose that (...) (23 years ago, 2-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Are we doing the right thing?
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First, Lindsay, I don't want to gush, but I really just love reading your stuff. Your only problem is that you're too sporadic. :-) Do you teach like this? Or does the nature of the college classroom require the lecture to be generally dry? Most (...) (23 years ago, 2-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Are we doing the right thing?
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(...) Wow, Dave, I'm very sad to hear this. I guess that you are also following Stuart's advice and staying away from the violence inherent in most of Lego's themes. I guess Mickey Mouse Lego must be very limiting, as there aren't many of those (...) (23 years ago, 2-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Views on asylum seekers?
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Seems like the stance of the Australian government (URL) has become an international news item. Political issues aside (if possible), I'd be interested in other peoples views on this (especially non-Australians). Basically, asylum seekers make their (...) (23 years ago, 2-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Are we doing the right thing?
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(...) Yes, but the perception--which is based in our adulation over technological can-do fixes, something the US has always had a severe disposition toward indulging in--is what's important. (...) It's the question of which is more dangerous: The (...) (23 years ago, 2-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Are we doing the right thing?
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"Mr L F Braun" <braunli1@pilot.msu.edu> wrote in message news:GIywD1.6y3@lugnet.com... (...) Neither is our missle system guaranteed protection, from what I understand of it. (...) Now, that's a good point. I'm definitely against nuclear war, but (...) (23 years ago, 2-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: The Hunt For Red October (was:Re: Are we doing the right thing?)
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(...) Good... I'm just wondering how you (...) I don't think I said that or at least I didn't mean it that way, but let's not argue about it. C'ya! -Geordan- (...) (23 years ago, 1-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: The Hunt For Red October (was:Re: Are we doing the right thing?)
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(...) Um, yeah... now it sounds like you grasp it ok. I'm just wondering how you got from there to saying that Raimus planned to blow up NY. :^) ~Grand Admiral Muffin Head (23 years ago, 1-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Are we doing the right thing?
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Thank you all for sharing your thoughts on this matter. I was very impressed to see everything from general ideology to specific war scenarios in the 20 and some odd posts. Needles to say I can not agree with some of the opinions I have seen, but (...) (23 years ago, 1-Sep-01, to lugnet.build.mecha, lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Are we doing the right thing?
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(...) That's a good point, and another way of getting at the problem with a missile shield. Putin has, in fact, hinted that this would be the case--can you imagine nuclear missiles with advanced ECM capability? *shudder* (...) It does, but I didn't (...) (23 years ago, 1-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | The Hunt For Red October (was:Re: Are we doing the right thing?)
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snip (...) Hehe, It's starting to sound like that isn't it? (not sarcastic) But no I'm not, I have seen THFRO twice in fact, and right now it stands as one of my fav. movies. I obviously have a rather diffferent interpretation of the plot, and I may (...) (23 years ago, 1-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Are we doing the right thing?
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(...) with (...) me (...) On the other hand, there is something to be said for Tim's extension (though it's clear that he meant it as counterfactual) as worth thinking about. If I were preparing an action of some kind that had a plausibility of (...) (23 years ago, 1-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Cuba
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(...) I know that we've been around this bend in the river before, but what exactly are your objections to those terms? Checking the dictionary and massaging the concepts just a little (really just a tiny little bit) (actually, not much at all) they (...) (23 years ago, 30-Aug-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Are we doing the right thing?
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(...) I don't think that's a fair extension. Bulletproof vests are *not* sold as a guarantee of protection, rather as an added margin of safety in given situations. The problem with missile-defence is precisely that which James and Dave pointed out: (...) (23 years ago, 1-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Are we doing the right thing?
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"James Simpson" <jsimpson@rice.edu> wrote in message news:GIy92A.9r3@lugnet.com... (...) With that logic, I'd expect you to next say that bulletproof vests on police officers invite criminals to shoot them. It is imperative to our national security (...) (23 years ago, 31-Aug-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Are we doing the right thing?
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(...) While I don't think Geordan knows what he is talking about, I do think that some of the Soviet diplomates did say at some point to American diplomates that they "feared he would fire the missles on the US as a renegade". This was to get the (...) (23 years ago, 31-Aug-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Are we doing the right thing?
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(...) Dude, are you making this up as you go along?!? Their orders were to proceed north, and rendezvous with Tupolev's boat, where they would conduct drills with the caterpillar drive. Then they were to return to Polyjarny (sp?). Captain Raimus (...) (23 years ago, 31-Aug-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) I think that "police actions" are birds of two different feathers: 1) Those with a clear moral imperative - Rwanda comes to mind. Oh wait. We just watched the massacre happen. Never mind. 2) Those "police actions" that are really calculated to (...) (23 years ago, 31-Aug-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Are we doing the right thing?
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(...) Yeah I worded that wrong (...) Oh! your right! they were only testing, the intention was to later destroy NY on a dif. mission, sorry. -Geordan- (...) (23 years ago, 31-Aug-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) Yeah, sorry, they were only testing the catepillar, the sub WAS created though for the purpose of destroying a US city (...) And the entire crew on Tupolev's boat... and had he had his (...) right, the US would just be intimidated. At (...) (...) (23 years ago, 31-Aug-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) If anything, I'd say that this reinforces a point that Eric made, at least by example. That point being that a strong military is useful in deterring other nations from attacking yours, but speaks nothing as to whether or not your nation will (...) (23 years ago, 31-Aug-01, to lugnet.build.mecha, lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) Which is exactly why that foolish missile-defense nonsense is so dangerous. We're liable to create just the right conditions for a nuclear "incident" with this money-sink, er, national defense system. This whole issue just makes me sick to (...) (23 years ago, 31-Aug-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) Did I see a different film? I thought the "caterpillar" was the propulsion system, rather than a weapon... Anyway, I don't really recall Ramius being ordered to destroy NYC, but it's been awhile. Dave! (23 years ago, 31-Aug-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) Wait a sec... What? Now I'll admit it's been a while since I've seen the movie, but weren't they just testing the caterpillar technology? I don't think there were any plans at all about using any weapons on the US. (...) Well-- 1st off, that'd (...) (23 years ago, 31-Aug-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) And I agree 120% with Mladen, Ever seen the movie "The Hunt For Red October"? (the best movie ever) The red october's orders are to destroy new york with their new silent "catepillar" technology. The orders to use the weapons are from the (...) (23 years ago, 31-Aug-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Are we doing the right thing?
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(...) Follow ups to off-topic.debate. I was going to say the same thing... Germany sure didn't show any hesitation to use their vastly supperior army in WWII, nor did the Romans hesitate to us theirs, or the British durring colonial expansion etc. (...) (23 years ago, 31-Aug-01, to lugnet.build.mecha, lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Cuba
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(...) Not to speak for Lar, but I think the association for him was insofar as in communist governments that have existed, there is always a central dictating body which applies "equality" to the citizens (theoretically themselves too, one could (...) (23 years ago, 31-Aug-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Emergency! Everyone, please read this.
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(...) A) Because I do believe that it impacts the community, whether you (or Todd) likes it or not. B) Because, as I stated, I don't like the business practice -- and I am aware in this instance of something that might possibly be done about it. (...) (23 years ago, 31-Aug-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Cuba
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(...) Look at it this way. You claim communism is "immoral" due to what you term "slavery and theft". Yet, my understanding of communism leads me to understand that it provides shelter, education and healthcare based on need. The system you favour (...) (23 years ago, 31-Aug-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Cuba
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(...) Silly Larry! Of course there is! The more happiness resulting from an action there is, the more moral that action is, and visa versa, says utilitarianism. Actually, I associate utilitarianism first and foremost with its view on ethics... (...) (...) (23 years ago, 31-Aug-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) I agree, but are you equating Communism-- that is to say the essential notion or theory of Communism/Socialism, not the current or former attempts at it-- with slavery? Slavery is the anti-thesis of Communism (and even Democracy) and therefore (...) (23 years ago, 30-Aug-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) Yes, he indicated this in very clear language. (...) Why then, if you know the story as far as Todd tells it, would you want to make such an offer? (...) Again, your own words don't really jive with your offer of money. Why help Todd rescue a (...) (23 years ago, 30-Aug-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Cuba
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(...) But I'm not using utilitarian morality (were there such a thing, which there isn't) here. My argument has several legs, each should be evaluated independently. The utilitarian argument (which makes no reference to morality) is entirely (...) (23 years ago, 30-Aug-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Cuba
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(...) Huge clarification to inflict on you-- it makes evidenced communism immoral and evidenced capitalism moral (by utilitarian standards). To judge any system using utilitarian morality, one needs evidence of the happiness/unhappiness of the (...) (23 years ago, 30-Aug-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Cuba
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(...) LOL! Cute, Larry! Dan (23 years ago, 30-Aug-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Cuba
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(...) No, not entire blame. That's not what I think and I thought I made this clear by my explanation and favor for the way Dave! restated it. America is to blame for the sanctions and therefore it is not fair to call the Cuban government, Communist (...) (23 years ago, 30-Aug-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Cuba
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(...) No, not entire blame. That's not what I think and I thought I made this clear by my explanation and favor for the way Dave! restated it. America is to blame for the sanctions and therefore it is not fair to call the Cuban government, Communist (...) (23 years ago, 30-Aug-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Cuba
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(...) Actually, what *do* you do for a living? I thought you just built boats... Dave! FUT OT.FUN (23 years ago, 30-Aug-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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