Subject:
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Re: Bummer of the Week: LEGO Made in China
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Newsgroups:
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lugnet.off-topic.debate
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Date:
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Thu, 6 Sep 2001 17:18:45 GMT
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Viewed:
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1218 times
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In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Ka-On Lee writes:
> In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Scott Arthur writes:
> >
> > Do you think we should trade with the very worst
> > of governments in the hope that the revenues empower workers in some small
> > way? Or do you think trade sanctions do have a place in the modern world?
>
> What a loaded topic I got into. Like you mentioned trade sanctions worked in
> South Africa, but it haven't worked for Iraq and Cuba.
This is questionable. Citing trade sanctions as effective allowed
the apartheid regime to save face--it was OK for the conservatives
to admit defeat at the hands of the rest of the industrialized First
World, but to admit that violence and unrest had reached critical
levels and had made the apartheid state imminently untenable would
have no doubt added support to the far-right nationalist movement.
There were a lot of folks who were predicting great bloodshed before
apartheid would end, and in a sense the sanctions led the way out.
I know of no South Africans--at least not white ones--who suffered
because of the trade sanctions, and I've talked to a few about it.
The *social* shunning, on the other hand, was far more effective
because many South African politicos had been used to moving in
international circles. But a lot of the academics didn't suffer
any sanction at all, because many of them were quite liberal all
the way through. Having a government monitor breathing down your
neck at every lecture can force you to confront the system's
excesses rather immediately. :)
Just my two cents--but I really don't think sanctions were at
all critical to bringing down the apartheid regime. From the
start of sanctions (UK, then US, then Europe) to the final admission
of defeat in 1989, we're talking 15-20 years. I don't know whose
argument that will support, but it's a valid point to make--that
it was African action that put the regime in immediate peril, not
economic sanctions. Sanctions, as so often pointed out before in
.debate, tend to hurt those without power first. De Beers was
*still* making money hand over fist from the blue earth around
the Witwatersrand all through the "sanctions" period--I don't doubt
that without militant liberation movements and active resistance,
we might still have an apartheid South Africa in place.
One could, of course, make the case that sanctions made the lot of
the black and coloured population bad enough that they rebelled
openly, but that would be very hard to prove or sustain.
> It is doubtful that
> trade sanctions would bring major positive changes in China. The communist
> still have tight control of their military, and they can easily pull the
> 'nationalism' flag to blind the people and blame the 'foreign imperialist' for
> every bad things.
I agree 100%. This was definitely the case in South Africa, at
least for the bulk of the white population.
best
LFB
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Message has 1 Reply:
 | | Re: Bummer of the Week: LEGO Made in China
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| When I mentioned South Africa, I was talking more about how individuals could keep the struggle in the public consciousness by avoid the products of companies who did invest in South Africa. As far as trade sanction are concerned, I think at the (...) (23 years ago, 7-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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Message is in Reply To:
| | Re: Bummer of the Week: LEGO Made in China
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| (...) What a loaded topic I got into. Like you mentioned trade sanctions worked in South Africa, but it haven't worked for Iraq and Cuba. It is doubtful that trade sanctions would bring major positive changes in China. The communist still have tight (...) (23 years ago, 6-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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