Subject:
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Re: Bummer of the Week: LEGO Made in China
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Newsgroups:
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lugnet.off-topic.debate
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Date:
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Thu, 6 Sep 2001 16:59:28 GMT
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Viewed:
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1166 times
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In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Ka-On Lee writes:
> [About politic]
> In lugnet.general, Greg Perry writes:
> > Or are
> > you just saying that without China I wouldn't have any means of having my
> > electricity delivered or any fine electronic products to run on that
> > electricity?
>
> More or less yes. Your fine product may be assembled in some other
> country, but it's componets can come from anywhere - from tiny resistors
> to motors. There is no 'pure' first world electronic products. Also where is
> your humanitarian concern for the Middle-East when you pump gas or play with
> the plastic bricks?
Please keep in mind what I keep stating - I do not consider myself an
"activist" nor am I anyone with any strong political convictions (or
understanding - I'm an American after all). So, I do not operate on some
Jainistic principle whereby I consider the consequence of my every action in
relation to the interconnected web of humanity. My practice of not buying
items made in China is more of a habit and as I previously expressed
something that is encouraged more by my wife than by any deeply held
principles of my own.
In fact, when you start trying to question my "humanitarian concern" for
others it really just leads me back to the self-awareness that I'm basically
misanthropic and really don't have much genuine concern for others. So
having stated that, it's obvious that my whole anti-Made in China position
is both hypocritical and farcical.
So I probably should just end this now and go back to my shell...
On the other hand...
> > > Huh? This is not 1970.
> >
> > My mistake, sorry for being so backwards. I forgot that China now allows
> > its citizens to enjoy the freedom of choice in all matters such as choice of
> > career, how many children to produce and what religion to practice.
>
> So while the government took away lots of things already, you want to
> take away their means to earn better live? It must be very
> humanitarian of you to remove the 'Red China threat' by pushing China back to
> the day when they only had nuclear weapons and hungry people.
Well, I've been labeled a racist and a bigot because of my post so I guess I
shouldn't be concerned with being called un/non/in-humanitarian - especially
considering my overall low opinion of humans in general.
I wonder though, what your response would have been if I had stated that my
anti-MADE IN CHINA stance was TOTALLY predicated on an "America First"
attitude and that I am completely in favor of NO contact with the Chinese
(economic, cultural, diplomatic etc.) and that any policy the U.S. adopts
that leads to the dissolution of that country and its people is ok with me.
This seems to be what other readers of my post "think" I'm saying so I'm
wondering what kind of response an explicit statement like that would
receive. That's NOT my attitude but I do wonder what reaction it would elicit.
At least then no one could question my motives. They could just move on to
the name-calling tactics embraced by others in this forum.
> Many Chinese Democratic activists are in favour of more foreign trade with
> China, including The Democratic Party of Hong Kong
> (http://www.dphk.org/e_site/index_e.htm). Foreign trade has been encouraging
> positive changes in the mainland, forcing the government to be more open and
> give the people more channels to contact the rest of the world. They realize
> that although a high number of job-less people may cause an unlikely coup, the
> resulting government would be just more backward.
Of course, this argument is heard all the time here in the U.S. Time and
again it's pointed out to us by those that benefit from moving business to
China that what's going on is really a benefit to the people NOT the
government. I certainly can see how this is case - encouraging the Chinese
people to better their situation economically would allow them the breathing
room to tackle the next stage of societal evolution and try and affect
changes in the government. This seems to be based on a truism of human
nature - give someone a little and they're going to want more and when they
have that then they're going to want a little more and so on...
Of course the question of "how much is enough?" is one beyond my
comprehension and ability to even begin to speculate. I guess, in a
typically human (or perhaps only American) attitude I want to see others
better themselves but I don't want that to be done at an cost to me (in this
case "me" being American workers whose jobs end up going overseas).
> And in reponse to your "pay the high salaries of pampered and spoiled Europeans
> and Americans", I doubt you envision your children to have a repeative job like
> packaging T-shirts.
This is another common statement on this subject - "The jobs that are moving
to China or Mexico are all jobs that no one in America wants to do anyway."
I agree that a repetitive factory job is not particularly desirable one but
at the same time the other thing that's always spouted is that the only jobs
that will soon be left in this country are working at Wal-Mart or McDonalds
or somehow being involved in the evergrowing Lawsuit Industry. That doesn't
seem like a particularly more attractive future.
Also, I'm not a good person to ask about the desirability of jobs - at
different times in my life I've worked cleaning toilets in hotels and
washing dishes in restaurants so I've been in the bottom of the barrel with
the worst of human filth. So personally I don't have much use for people
who sniff at jobs as being "beneath them."
> [About quality]
> > Well, in that case - let's lobby LEGO to move all their manufacturing to
> > China since doing so will have no affect on the quality of their products
>
> We have no idea how it would affect the quality. To say it will be 100%
> sure to reduce quality is simply bigoted. Yes a large chunk of products from
> China are of low quality, and the 'Made in China' = low quality has been around
> for so long it's hard to change the impression. I would not buy a car made in
> China without a long term good quality record for the brand, although they are
> not exporting cars yet.
I went through this with lawrence - my original post in which I asked
whether or not I was wrong in believing that a move to China by LEGO would
reduce quality overall was NOT bigoted. If I was a bigot then I would have
simply stated that I was right and would not be open to any further
discussion on the subject. A bigot is someone who believes that they have
the right opinion on a subject now and forever.
A more correct word is "prejudiced". And you're right, years and years of
seeing inferior products stamped "Made in China" play a part in my current
attitude of equating that stamp with "low quality". I am "prejudiced" in
that regard - meaning my attitude is based on past experience and incomplete
knowledge of the current situation. I am completely open to being led to a
point where I can understand that there should be no negative connotations
(economical or political) with a product being made in China.
> Since LEGO's plastic injection process and sorting process are highly
> automated, low cost labor has limited benefit for them. The only benefit would
> be land and shipping cost.
>
> However since most foreign investor need to bribe their way through all levels
> of corrupted government officals to set foot in China, LEGO may not be up to
> that. But look at the recent Bionical Mask lottery scam, and the total absent
> of extra pieces in recent 2001 sets, I wouldn't be too surprised.
Ka-On, I honestly thank you for your time and effort in responding to my
posts. I realize that I often resort to sarcastic measures in my writings
and I appreciate you wading through that to offer some reasonsed responses
to my babblings. You have certainly given me some things to think about and
have allowed me to do some further self-examination about my opinions and
actions.
THANKS!
Sincerely,
Greg
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Message is in Reply To:
 | | Re: Bummer of the Week: LEGO Made in China
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| (...) More or less yes. Your fine product may be assembled in some other country, but it's componets can come from anywhere - from tiny resistors to motors. There is no 'pure' first world electronic products. Also where is your humanitarian concern (...) (23 years ago, 6-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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