Subject:
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Re: Bummer of the Week: LEGO Made in China
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Newsgroups:
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lugnet.off-topic.debate
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Date:
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Thu, 6 Sep 2001 18:10:17 GMT
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Viewed:
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1358 times
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In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Dave Schuler writes:
> In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Greg Perry writes:
>
> > And don't forget to thank your god for America being there during the "Big
> > One" so that now instead of goose-stepping around while sporting funny
> > little mustaches your country can rather concern itself with where Prince
> > Willie's Willy is being stuck and whether or not you can keep the citizens
> > or your occupied territories from hurling grenades into crowds of school
> > children.
>
> Greg:
> That is the type of comment that frequently--and not always
> incorrectly--elicits charges of bigotry or at least misguided nationalism.
Dave - please see my response to Psi
(http://news.lugnet.com/off-topic/debate/?n=12419) for my apologies for this
statement. I would however ask you to keep in mind that it was made in
response to lawrence's sarcastic "thanks" to the U.S. I realize now (as is
often the case with what I write) that taken out of context and without any
knowledge of my true beliefs and intentions that these statements do come
off as pretty boorish.
> Obviously, I have no idea of the true nature of your real-world feelings,
> but the tenor of your statements in this debate illustrate pretty clearly
> the perception that the US is great (or at least the world's anti-Nazi
> saviors) and that other nations, arbitrarily chosen, are inferior. We are
> all aware of China's human rights violations, and we're all aware of the
> UK's troubles in Ireland. For that matter, the grenade-tossing incident
> stems from centuries-old Catholic/Protestant friction and is, as I
> understand it, largely independent of British occupation. In any case, some
> of us are also aware of the US's human rights violations, and so we're less
> quick to point fingers at other nations.
Once again, I would ask you to read my response to Simon in addition to this
one. My statements were intended to be just as indefensible as a complete
dismissal of everything the U.S. has accomplished should likewise be.
However, this doesn't seem to be the case. It would appear that it's ok for
The World to taunt the U.S. with "you think you're so great, you think
you're the best, you think you're the only one who can save the world, etc."
However, if an American says "you're right. We do think we're a great
nation. We do think that we've made a more-than-fair share of contributions
to this planet. We do think our system of government is better than that of
some other countries" then suddenly everyone starts yelling and crying and
accusing us of being BIGOTS (since this seems to be the Word of the Day here
on LUGNET).
Believe me, I am very much aware of the sins of the U.S. (and even more
aware that there are many more that we know nothing about). I typically do
not feel any need to defend this country against others or to try and point
the finger at other nations. Quite frankly, I just don't care enough. It
was only done this time because it was injected into the "discussion".
> Your feelings are valid, insofar as they're your own, but it might serve
> you better in the long run to consider the impact of your phrasing. Your
> first post in the thread, for instance, asks:
>
> > - Am I just being jingo-istic (and euro-centric) in thinking that if LEGO
> > products across the board begin to be made in China that there will be an
> > overall reduction in quality?
>
> which, to the conscientious reader, comes across as an implication of
> inferiority inherent in the process of Chinese manufacture.
I agree with you that I often end up phrasing my thoughts in such a way that
they are misinterpreted. Once again though I have to point out that I
phrased this as a question not as a declaration because I honestly want to
know other people's opinions and come to an understanding of whether my
position is valid or not. That's hard to do with people who only want to
hurl charges of racism against others which I assume is done to cover some
similar feelings in their own mind.
Also, while I appreciate it being pointed out to me that certain statements
of mine could be misconstrued I have to ask, "How would you have phrased
this question so that it was devoid of any racist, bigoted, imperialistic
attitude?"
> You likewise asserted:
>
> > While I certainly see the problems inherent in a society that forces it's
> > population to work under virtual "slave labor" conditions, for me the botton
> > line is that products made in China are inevitably cheap, inferior crap.
>
> thereby undermining any subsequent arguments you might make about China's
> human rights violations, since you state clearly that your primary concern
> is the impact upon your wallet.
Please see my response to Ka-On
(http://news.lugnet.com/off-topic/debate/?n=12417) in which I concede that I
have very few humanitarian inclinations. That aspect of my "boycott" is
something that my wife bases her buying patterns on. So feel free to add
misanthrope to my labels of racist and bigot.
> Again, I don't know (or, honestly, care about) your real-world views on
> these matters. I am instead addressing your online presentation of ideas
> and the way they're coming across, whether or not you're aware of their
> unintended impact.
Thank you for the thoughts. As I stated I am aware that my postings are
frequently misunderstood and that I could probably do a better job of
presenting my thoughts. I think my best bet thought would be to stick to
more simplistic posts such as "8 Wide Rules!" or "Why Won't LEGO Listen to
Me and All My Great Ideas that Would Save the Company?"
I guess you'll just have to put me in that "special" category along with
Jesse Alan Long.
Greg
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Message has 2 Replies:
 | | Re: Bummer of the Week: LEGO Made in China
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| (...) Fair enough--I posted my message before you had explained your intention. (...) Perhaps something along the lines of "In my experience, products manufactured in China sometimes display less tightly-controlled standards of quality, such that (...) (23 years ago, 6-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
| | | Re: Bummer of the Week: LEGO Made in China
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| (...) Nah. I think it's just Moon Madness (not a value statement about the moon, calm down everyone! ;) )--or maybe September Stress-- that's getting everyone in a tizzy. I know it's gotten the best of me a few times in the last week (maybe here (...) (23 years ago, 7-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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Message is in Reply To:
| | Re: Bummer of the Week: LEGO Made in China
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| (...) Greg: That is the type of comment that frequently--and not always incorrectly--elicits charges of bigotry or at least misguided nationalism. Obviously, I have no idea of the true nature of your real-world feelings, but the tenor of your (...) (23 years ago, 6-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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