Subject:
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Re: gay by birth vs. gay by choice
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Newsgroups:
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lugnet.off-topic.debate
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Date:
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Wed, 5 Dec 2001 04:37:22 GMT
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Viewed:
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412 times
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In lugnet.off-topic.debate, David Eaton writes:
> In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Kirby Warden writes:
> > From the Holy Bible:
> > Leviticus 20:13
> If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have
> committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death. Their blood
> shall be upon them."
>
> Leviticus 18:22
> "Thou shalt not lie with mankind as with womankind: it is abomination"
>
> > 1Corinthians 6:9
> "Or know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God?
> Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor
> effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with men, nor thieves, nor covetous,
> nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of
> God. And such were some of you: but ye were washed, but ye were sanctified,
> but ye were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, and in the
> Spirit of our God."
>
> > Romans 1:26-27
> "Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women
> exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. In the same way the men also
> abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one
> another, Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in
> themselves the due penalty for their perversion."
>
> I see where the above teaches not to *PRACTICE* homosexual acts, but nothing
> about actually WANTING to practice them. IE according to these passages,
> gays are fine as long as they don't actually commit homosexual acts. Note
> even the reference to "effeminate" as bad. Well-- ok, it just says they
> won't inhereit the kingdom of God, but I assume that's bad. I guess women
> are out of luck...
Matthew 5:21- here Jesus speaks about "thought sins", whereby a person
dwells upon a sin, knowing it's nature, with the intent of "pretending" to
to act it out. Specifically the example of adultery, whereby even looking
upon a woman lustfully is a sin. It is taught in the Christian church that
*wanting* to sin is no different than actually sinning, thereby requiring
repentence.
> Anyway, if there IS a gay gene, wouldn't a literal Christian just say
> "that's ok, just don't *do* any of that stuff you want to do". IE resist
> sin. Heck, (as I mentioned elsewhere) we've all got urges to sin
> occasionally. Christianity just says we should overcome them. Right?
That wouldn't be a problem accept that repentence is required by many
churches for official membership and many gay individuals refuse to
acknowledge that the Christian church believes that homosexuality is a sin.
So when a church restricts a request for official membership lawsuits are
increasingly filed.
> > It is interesting to note that some gay individuals I debated with have
> > stated that they consider themselves Christian. It that is so, then it is
> > safe to assume that they understand the concept of Heaven and Hell described
> > in the Bible and that one cannot entere Heaven without first acknowledging
> > sins and repenting of them.
>
> Well, as overly evidenced on Lugnet, there are so many flavors of
> Christianity, it's tough to say. In fact, I know several Christians who
> aren't homosexual who are fine with homosexual acts, believe it or not...
Yes, indeed many self-proclaimed Christians are not really Christian, merely
picking and choosing "the good stuff".
> > It is very important to understand that the Bible does indeed support the
> > notion that God hates sin, not sinners. The whole idea of Christ dying for
> > mankinds sins and offering the means of forgiveness would otherwise be
> > somewhat ludicrous.
>
> Exactly. It's the sin, not the urge to commit sin. IE if people have the gay
> gene, they should just learn to not act on it, might say a Christian.
Again, it is taught that the mere "want" of sin is just as bad as the act,
based on Matthew 5:21-
> DaveE
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Message has 1 Reply:
 | | Re: gay by birth vs. gay by choice
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| (...) Well two things-- 1st off, this gets into sketchy territory. What is want? How do we define it? And, further, is it really *as* bad as the act? Hence, if we want it, why not just go do it since it's just as bad? Is there any positive side to (...) (23 years ago, 5-Dec-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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Message is in Reply To:
| | Re: gay by birth vs. gay by choice
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| (...) If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death. Their blood shall be upon them." Leviticus 18:22 "Thou shalt not lie with mankind as with womankind: it is (...) (23 years ago, 4-Dec-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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