 | | Re: Debunk this?
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(...) that (...) societies (...) actually (...) If what you are saying here is that all the countries [1] in the world are terrorist organizations then I think you should find a new definition. If you think that Israel somehow stands out of the rest (...) (23 years ago, 23-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Debunk this?
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(...) I guess you mean during the 1948 war, 1) This isn't different than what is happening now in Afghanistan. People left their homes in fear of the coming war. 1.25 million Israeli Arabs now living in Israel are the ones who didn't run. 2) You are (...) (23 years ago, 23-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Debunk this?
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(...) Truly, I don't know. There are issues with satisfactorily defining the notion of terrorism and there is the fact that I don't know what all goes on between Isreal and Palestine. From American Heritage: (...) The insertion of "unlawful" into (...) (23 years ago, 23-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Thinking Out Loud...
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(...) No, actually these circumstances are VERY normal. Violence goes on in our world everyday in the name of capitalism -- whether it is the sweatshop that made your sneakers, or trade in South American women for use as captive prostitutes. I am (...) (23 years ago, 23-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Debunk this?
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(...) Okay, tell me how the Palestinians left their homes and villages after 1948? Willingly? Perhaps you should learn more about how Israel REALLY came to be. And you should recognize the long list of terrorists (by America's very own definition) (...) (23 years ago, 23-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Debunk this?
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(...) terrorist (...) Oh, I see that now. I guess I shouldn't be surprised, I've come to expect such remarks from Dan. It just caught me off guard in your post. Up to that point your post seemed levelheaded. I could agree to many points (and (...) (23 years ago, 23-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Debunk this?
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(...) reading (...) I'm specifically saying that's what Dan said (and I think that's partly what riled folks). See: (URL) (23 years ago, 23-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Debunk this?
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In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Christopher L. Weeks writes: <snip> (...) <snip> I'm sorry, I read it several times and still could not believe what I'm reading (perhaps it's my english). Are you saying that you think Israel is a terrorist organization? (...) (23 years ago, 23-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Debunk this?
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(...) FWIW Dan, I've really appreciated the information that you and others have presented here from the "other" side of this issue. Even if I do kind of agree (from across subjects, not just the issue of Israel) that you slam the US quite often. (...) (23 years ago, 23-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Debunk this?
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I'm pointing out the dirty facts behind the curtain the popular American media has created regarding Palestine and Israel. If that is being one-sided, then the only "side" I'm on is that of truth and justice. I make no bones about shedding light on (...) (23 years ago, 23-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Debunk this?
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Dan, Then you need to think about your one-sided responses. Just go back and check your responses in this group - the vast majority are "X is Israel/US's fault" or "X is caused by Israel/US" or "X is worsened by Israel/US". If we take you at your (...) (23 years ago, 23-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Who are we to judge?
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(...) I don't think he's dismissing neutrality - do you? Should a nation continue to host terrorist training camps would you consider it neutral? Should a nation harbour terrorists knowingly and refuse to turn them out or turn them over would you (...) (23 years ago, 23-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| |
| | The god debate again... sigh
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One cartoonist's view (URL) has been addressed, but which makes me laugh nonetheless) (23 years ago, 23-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Thinking Out Loud...
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(...) Well first of all we are all wearing our emotions pretty close to the vest now-a-days so I may have said something I wouldn't have under normal circumstances. Unfortunately these arn't normal circumstances. I see where what I said sounded like (...) (23 years ago, 23-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: The *militia* saved flight 93 from a worse fate...
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(...) Ah yes, the "too big/important to fail" argument. (23 years ago, 23-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Thinking Out Loud...
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I see you've chosen to try to worm out rather than admit your error. I expected better from you, Ross. (...) No. And if you seriously want to make the argument that he was violent, your understanding of violence is flawed. Seriously. Hence the (...) (23 years ago, 23-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Who are we to judge?
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In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Mike Stanley writes: [snip] (...) So it's OK for GWB to unilaterally dismiss the notion of neutrality? I too am not particularly happy with this particular line. Though my government (and myself) are behind the US in (...) (23 years ago, 23-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: The *militia* saved flight 93 from a worse fate...
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In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Larry Pieniazek writes: [snippety] (...) Exactly, just like Australia's[1] Ansett Airlines: (URL) when a large company goes bankrupt, it's not only the shareholders that pay. ROSCO [1] OK, it was recently acquired by Air (...) (23 years ago, 23-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Thinking Out Loud...
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(...) However I think being a passenger on a hijacked airliner, with reports that at least one other similar airliner may have just flown straight into a not-so-very-far-away building, is *not* a typical situation. Consider: A man is walking along (...) (23 years ago, 23-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: The *militia* saved flight 93 from a worse fate...
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Greetings Horst, (...) I see that you oppose the idea. And I see that you don't want to substantiate such a claim. Fine. But I can and will (and have!) substantiated the opposite claim. People are in fact safer when guns are plentiful (at least in (...) (23 years ago, 23-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Who are we to judge?
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In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Mike Stanley writes: But in the context of the rest of the speech Bush made I think it (...) Well, here's where we get into how slippery and essentially empty the president's rhetoric really is... Nations are not things (...) (23 years ago, 23-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: DVD players (Was: Re: From a mailing list)
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(...) Didn't stop me. However, I have only replaced a few things on DVD. The real option is to join Netflix.com - a web based DVD rental company. Huge selection, easy service (DVD's are mailed to you with return postage paid envelopes), great (...) (23 years ago, 23-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Debunk this?
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(...) That is NOT my viewpoint! Dan (23 years ago, 23-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Who are we to judge?
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I think in the context that this remark was made it was pretty clear what our President meant, and I think the answer to your question is pretty obvious. You're entitled to your opinion. Heck, I don't even have a problem if you or anyone else wants (...) (23 years ago, 23-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Who are we to judge?
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Larry Pieniazek wrote in message.... <snip> (...) Is this the same speech were he said "You are either with us, or with the terrorists"? I have a problem with this because I certainly don't agree with the US's retaliation, does that make me a (...) (23 years ago, 23-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| |
| | Re: War
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(...) Both you and Dan have bandied this number about before. Here's a piece that tries to debunk it. It is a good piece for several other reasons, IMHO. Is the author correct that this statistic is a sham? (URL) part about Iraqi children is several (...) (23 years ago, 23-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: The *militia* saved flight 93 from a worse fate...
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(...) Well, this is a specific instance of the general assertion "public activity X (in which strangers are thrown together and have to get along) is safer if some small fraction of the public is armed (and further, if the baddies aren't quite sure (...) (23 years ago, 23-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: The Origins "Debate"
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(...) There is more evidence around than just the fossil record though. For instance, my work involves comparing DNA sequences from different organisms. We can measure the differences between sequences, and draw a tree or nested set describing how (...) (23 years ago, 23-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Mercy? (Was Re: My Prayer on this National Day of Prayer)
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(...) Granted. (...) Yes, unfortunately. Jesus warns against complacency and losing heart. Being human, we fall short all the time. It could be for the nonreligious people also. A tragedy like this forces many to reevaluate their priorities in life (...) (23 years ago, 22-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: The *militia* saved flight 93 from a worse fate...
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Hello Chris, (...) Well, I don't want to dive into a firearms discussion here. What I wanted to oppose is the idea that air travel is safer when firearms are allowed to be taken into planes by passengers. (...) And how can people working in (...) (23 years ago, 22-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Who are we to judge?
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Hello Larry, (...) I can help you a bit with that. What among the things he said was new? What evidence did he present for his statements? Greetings Horst (23 years ago, 22-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Thinking Out Loud...
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Hello Larry, (...) While in tendency, I do agree, I would probably state these issues less black and white. Yes, our standards ARE correct, which for me means that we ARE allowed to apply them in OUR part of the world. At least most of them. Yes, we (...) (23 years ago, 22-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: The god debate again... sigh^h^h^h^h yawn
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(...) Indeed. I would say that there is no answer to this question, because it's a logical contradiction. God can lift anything He wants, and God can make anything He wants. But God wouldn't set out with the express purpose of making a stone too big (...) (23 years ago, 22-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Mercy? (Was Re: My Prayer on this National Day of Prayer)
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(...) I'm not clear on the difference. Anyway, the Gospels were written in Greek, from within the Roman Empire. (...) These are faith issues. They can't be "proven" either way. (...) If the books were divinely inspired, then they aren't embellished. (...) (23 years ago, 22-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Mercy? (Was Re: My Prayer on this National Day of Prayer)
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(...) What about all the OT miracles, then? Leaving the NT aside for the moment, the OT predicted many events that also took place in the OT. <snip> (...) But Jesus's miracles are those which don't leave very much wiggle room. The healing miracles, (...) (23 years ago, 22-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: DVD players (Was: Re: From a mailing list)
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(...) Yes, I got a chance to play with a DVD version of The Matrix at a friend's house on a really really big TV with Dolby surround. Pretty amazing.... (...) We would have to decide WHICH room/VCR gets it though... Family room, where the kids watch (...) (23 years ago, 22-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, lugnet.off-topic.geek)
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| | DVD players (Was: Re: From a mailing list)
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(...) I thought about that too, so I didn't buy a DVD player for a long time. Once I did buy mine, however, I just bought the entry level Sony, which has all the options I need (I don't plan to use mine as a CD player, or to play mp3's or anything) (...) (23 years ago, 22-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | The god debate again... sigh^h^h^h^h yawn
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(...) You're wandering into the "Can god make a stone so large he cannot lift it?" thicket. Here there be tygers. I note you did not address my previous post on "Why this discussion now? Did you do your homework before starting?" but just ignored (...) (23 years ago, 22-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: From a mailing list
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(...) Indeed, although that's probably not a problem for me, the family would use it a lot. What actually may be a larger part of the expense of going DVD is the tendency to buy some of the same items you already have on VHS that is very hard to (...) (23 years ago, 22-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Mercy? (Was Re: My Prayer on this National Day of Prayer)
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(...) This is the key distinction. God created beings with free will, but free will necessitates the possibility of rebellion. God created the universe with the possibility of evil. This is not the same thing as creating evil itself. He allows it, (...) (23 years ago, 22-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: From a mailing list
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Hello Larry, (...) Not talking about the time to USE it ... ;-) Greetings Horst (23 years ago, 22-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| |
| | Re: The Origins Debate
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|
In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Dave Schuler writes: <snip> (...) Let me restate my position this way: FACT: Many, many species exist and have existed on Earth. The first species which appeared were very simple, single-celled organisms, without nuclei. (...) (23 years ago, 21-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Raving Out Loud (was: Thinking Out Loud...)
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|
In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Christopher L. Weeks writes: <snip the parts that I agree with and that aren't needed for the following> (...) I'm with you on the "some popular opinion" part, but I don't see the president as calling for us to go (...) (23 years ago, 22-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Debunk this?
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|
(...) I want to apologise for "lumping you in with that chump Scott Arthur"(1) when it comes to debating, that wasn't my intent by naming the two of you at the start of the thread. It's just that you two are the "usual suspects" when it comes to (...) (23 years ago, 22-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Raving Out Loud (was: Thinking Out Loud...)
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Eric, your note suggests that you just generally missed the point. But there are few point in particular that I think are worth making. (...) Your tone suggests not only that you think his safety could be imperiled, but also that you wouldn't be too (...) (23 years ago, 22-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Thinking Out Loud...
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|
(...) I heard on the news today (unconfirmed, so it could be wrong) that the cockpit voice recorder on 93 has "clear evidence of sounds of battle in the cockpit just prior to the plane going down". Pacifists don't typically get involved in battles. (...) (23 years ago, 22-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Debunk this?
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|
(...) That's just your personal characterization of how you THINK I feel about stuff, and not really accurate at all. I never said or thought what you just wrote, that's too baseless and generic and I don't think that way. I don't appreciate being (...) (23 years ago, 22-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Thinking Out Loud...
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|
(...) Eric, let's not go there. I happen to think Richard goes a bit too far but if we cannot tolerate voices of dissent and discuss this rationally we are too far gone to triumph, and too far gone to *deserve* to triumph (1). All viewpoints should (...) (23 years ago, 22-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Thinking Out Loud...
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|
(...) Hmmm. OK. It seemed like some were making a pretty big point of it... (...) To my knowledge we have not physically acted in response to what happened yet. I think you should wait on the rushing to conclusions part because until we do something (...) (23 years ago, 22-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Who are we to judge?
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|
Snippety snip (...) All? This isn't about Christian(1) vs. Islamic cultures, this is about relatively free cultures vs. relatively barbaric ones. Our culture (faults and all, taken as a whole) is superior to the Taliban (virtues and all). That makes (...) (23 years ago, 22-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Debunk this?
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|
(...) Whether it is or not(1) does not answer the questions I posed. As I see it there are two possibilities - The PA is not a terrorist organisation and you choose not to defend it - The PA is a terrorist organization and you choose not to admit it (...) (23 years ago, 22-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Debunk this?
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|
(...) Actually, I don't agree with either your factual assertions or that Israel or the U.S. are to blame for all the miseries of the world (more or less Dan's viewpoint). Personally, I think there's enough blame to go around to all participants! (...) (23 years ago, 22-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Debunk this?
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|
Dan, PERSONALLY, I think this is a personal issue between you and the world. You are constantly spouting that Israel and the US are the root of all evil, everything is obviously their (and our) fault, and if they'd just go away, the world would be a (...) (23 years ago, 22-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Thinking Out Loud...
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|
Yeah, but you know what guys -- who cares about pacifism? Pacifism is beside the point... The point is whether we should retaliate violently absent proof of the correctness of what we are doing. The point is whether we should be rushing to (...) (23 years ago, 22-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Who are we to judge?
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|
(...) Those two statements are really quite different, and I see the whole as the beginnings of a convoluted argument intended to illicit precisely the sort of arguments I would mount against it. The first part of the argument is related to one's (...) (23 years ago, 22-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Debunk this?
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|
(...) <snipped> As far as I'm concerned, Larry, the Israeli government is one big terrorist organization. It began that way and remains that way. It seems that you're making this a personal issue between us so take it to e-mail. Dan (23 years ago, 22-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Thinking Out Loud...
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|
(...) An *excellent* point. In addition, your point illustrates a good refutation of the oft-quoted line by Gandhi about "many things are worth dying for, nothing is worth killing for." If, for instance, the passengers had reason to suspect, as they (...) (23 years ago, 21-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| |
| | Re: The *militia* saved flight 93 from a worse fate...
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|
(...) If those defenders had had a chance to have guns (even if many restrictions were placed as to gun type, load type, training, etc), they might have had a better chance of stopping the terrorists. Who knows, they MIGHT have had a chance to land (...) (23 years ago, 22-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| |
| | Re: Thinking Out Loud...
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|
(...) This is one of the most ridiculous statements I've seen on this whole topic. Without violence? How ludicrous! "Please Mr. Terrorist, can I have control of the plane?" "Why sure you can, good man, here you go" Passive resistance taking a plane (...) (23 years ago, 22-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: The *militia* saved flight 93 from a worse fate...
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|
(...) I heard this great idea on the radio today. It apparently came from The heritage Foundation. Instead of just handing $15 billion to the airlines, make an advance purchase of about $16 billion worth of vouchers for airline tickets for (...) (23 years ago, 21-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Who are we to judge?
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|
There are some that say that it is not America's place to say we are morally superior to terrorist regimes, that all cultures must be valued equally. This writer is not one of those people: (URL) is this one: (URL) am I. (23 years ago, 21-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Debunk this?
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|
(...) In my delight that you admitted that the PA censors without needing to be prodded as much as usual, I forgot to follow up on the rest of the article... you focused on the censorship of the press part and admitted that it is true, although you (...) (23 years ago, 21-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| |
| | Re: The *militia* saved flight 93 from a worse fate...
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|
(...) I'm not very happy with what I've heard of this bail-out. I think that the airlines deserve reasonable compensation from the government for losses as a result of the forced grounding, and, while I recognize that the airlines to some degree (...) (23 years ago, 21-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: The *militia* saved flight 93 from a worse fate...
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|
(...) <snip> (...) Actually according the the AJC this is already happening: (URL) (23 years ago, 21-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| |
| | Re: The *militia* saved flight 93 from a worse fate...
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|
(...) But, But... if Joe Smith decided not to pay, he isn't going to be flying. At least not with me, anyway. I certainly will not choose an airline that won't take the maximum steps to ensure my safety. I plan to quiz NWA quite closely about that. (...) (23 years ago, 21-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: The *militia* saved flight 93 from a worse fate...
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|
(...) Sheer madness! Bruce (23 years ago, 21-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: The *militia* saved flight 93 from a worse fate...
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|
(...) But the effects of that decision outweigh the need for the individual to preserve that decision-making right, unless only the individual is going to be affected by the decision. That is, if a plane is to be hijacked and used to kill several (...) (23 years ago, 21-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| |
| | Re: The *militia* saved flight 93 from a worse fate...
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|
(...) Speaking of which, I'm not too keen on what I seem to be hearing about the airline bailout bill. Some background... The exact story of why it is that the airlines are in charge of gate security and sort of *not* in charge as well is very (...) (23 years ago, 21-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| |
| | Re: The *militia* saved flight 93 from a worse fate...
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|
(...) In 1999, there were 8,718 firearm related homocides in the US. So you're probably right. But the broad-picture statistics suggest that as the concealed-carry rate increases, the violent crime rate decreases. So I'd claim that that high number (...) (23 years ago, 21-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: The *militia* saved flight 93 from a worse fate...
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|
(...) I think you're going to have a hard time proving that statistic to actually be true, or if it is, that it's a causal link, or if it is a causal link, that banning guns would actually make any difference (plowed ground alert). However, on a (...) (23 years ago, 21-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: From a mailing list
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|
(...) It's a matter of priorities... I'd rather flap gums here or pilot MLCad than go do research on which DVD to buy. (...) I've been put on a budget... and LEGO HAS to come first. :-) So I gotta sell more than I buy. Boy is *that* hard... (...) (...) (23 years ago, 21-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: From a mailing list
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|
(...) I always get a chuckles when you say stuff like this. You choose to spend you time and money the way you do. I think it's unreasonable to suggest that a man with enough time to license, build, and market that very nice Skyline piece _can't_ (...) (23 years ago, 21-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: The *militia* saved flight 93 from a worse fate...
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|
Hello Chris, (...) Given the fact that even in the Sep. 11 disaster, less people were probably killed than are killed in a "normal" year by use of guns in the US, I tend to prefer NOT to legalize taking firearms into planes. Maybe a few armed (...) (23 years ago, 21-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: The *militia* saved flight 93 from a worse fate...
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Hello Larry, (...) Well, it seems I need to elaborate on this, then. First, the article states: (...) This is the right question to ask, and it is EXACTLY why I am so critical towards military action. A few paragraphs further down, you can read in (...) (23 years ago, 21-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: From a mailing list
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|
(...) That's directed at those who in the past have flamed me for posting stuff I get in my email, not at you.... (...) Oh, well I didn't post it because I agreed with it 100%. I posted it because I think a wide variety of voices need to be heard. (...) (23 years ago, 21-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: From a mailing list
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|
Hello Larry, (...) Why should I flame you? This idea just takes the approach I was trying to advocate to the extreme, and I like the idea a lot! The good thing about it is: If it doesn't work, it still costs less and carries less risk than any other (...) (23 years ago, 21-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Thinking Out Loud...
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|
Hello Eric, (...) I find "pacifism" a gross mischaracterization of the US reaction to islamistic terror in the past. True, not every attack got its direct military response, but pacifism is not one of those things you can switch on and off on a (...) (23 years ago, 21-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| |
| | Re: "The Roots of Muslim Rage"
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Hello, (...) Sounds a lot different from what seems to be preparing now. I am not sure whether I agree completely, though. It may be wise to help moderate Moslems, rather than just sit back and wait for them to sort it out. But, as I said, no (...) (23 years ago, 21-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: The *militia* saved flight 93 from a worse fate...
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(...) Not following you there. The author was making a point about who the militia was, a point that many (with their prattle about the militia being exclusively the National Guard) miss, or worse, deliberately distort. (23 years ago, 21-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: The *militia* saved flight 93 from a worse fate...
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(...) One might wonder how much less destruction there would have been on 11 September if some or many of the passengers had been armed. Even assuming that the terrorists were also, there were many more passengers than madmen. I'd prefer those odds. (...) (23 years ago, 21-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: From a mailing list
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"Larry Pieniazek" <lpieniazek@mercator.com> wrote in message news:GK0pzq.7uE@lugnet.com... (...) we (...) leaders, (...) to Cat. This is a good post. I like it. /J (23 years ago, 21-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Debunk this?
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Hello, in addition to what Daniel Jassim already wrote, this article made me wonder whether Arafat is really leading these tactical maneuvers, or whether he is merely losing control ... Greetings Horst (23 years ago, 21-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: The *militia* saved flight 93 from a worse fate...
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... however they did this without guns. So how does the firearms discussion get into this article? I suspect the author has some hidden agenda, and is trying to capitalize on the current rage. If so, shame on him ... Other than that, I think the (...) (23 years ago, 21-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Debunk this?
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(...) I don't know what you're asking here? Do I deny there were celebrations? Of course not, that's pretty obvious. And I don't think the Arabs are denying the celebrations either, just specific portions of the initial footage shown in America. The (...) (23 years ago, 21-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Debunk this?
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(...) ok, so you are denying that the complete footage, as seen on CNN is real, actual palestinians celebrating the WTC attack... which is exactly what you said no one is doing. Drop that though, what basis do you have to claim that any part of it (...) (23 years ago, 21-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Debunk this?
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(...) Because it's shocking to see such behavior, but I'm not surprised that the Palestinians would feel that way after everything they've endured. I think anyone wishing to pass judgement on another should first consider walking in their shoes. How (...) (23 years ago, 21-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | From a mailing list
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I can't attribute the source because I don't know. I am on a mailing list of IBMers and exIBMers, all of who used to hang out on IBMTEXT (and especially the NITPICK FORUM) and one of them got this in HER email and reposted it. Flame me if you want (...) (23 years ago, 21-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Thinking Out Loud...
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(...) Which is a kind of attack. (...) Unarmed attacks are nevertheless attacks. You've been caught in a logical contradiction and unless you can get away with redefining pacifism to mean something it does not, you're stuck. Admit it and move on. (...) (23 years ago, 21-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Big bad greedy US capitalists exploiting the world
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(...) Well no, actually, they are in fact *not* happy for "any amount". If you physically mail them a penny, you're costing them *more* to process it than it's worth to them. Not costing you more, costing *them* more. Taking this example further, If (...) (23 years ago, 21-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Thinking Out Loud...
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"Eric Kingsley" <kingsley@nelug.org> wrote in message news:GK0IsA.GL2@lugnet.com... (...) Even if the F-16 did shoot them out the sky, the passengers on board did not know that was going to happen. I can't believe it was a cover up, as the reports (...) (23 years ago, 21-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Thinking Out Loud...
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(...) weaponless (...) You have to be kidding!!! These hijackers more than likely had killed some crew, possibly some passangers, and almost certainly the pilots. The passangers knew this. They also knew, via phone conversations, that planes were (...) (23 years ago, 21-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Big bad greedy US capitalists exploiting the world
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(...) I think of it as costing *me* more - the Red Cross are happy for any amount. But you're right - it essentially means I deprived them of a small donation from yahoo (or whoever carries the cost of collecting the donations). ROSCO (23 years ago, 21-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Thinking Out Loud...
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(...) As I said, it was more likely a charge - remember they were probably weaponless - whether they were intending to hurt the hijackers is anyone's guess. My aim in their position would be (if I had time to think about it): 1. Try and get control (...) (23 years ago, 21-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Debunk this?
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(...) Can you site examples when Israel or the US censored a report of a civilian gathering? not talking about details about a military operation, since that actually does make sense. But civilian? Also, can you site a single example of anyone (...) (23 years ago, 21-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Thinking Out Loud...
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(...) So you concede that it is likely that one or more passengers did in fact attack, then? I grant that we may never know for certain, but submit that the evidence is very strongly pointing in that direction. Therefore the passenger or passengers (...) (23 years ago, 21-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: "The Roots of Muslim Rage"
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(...) He's half right. This *is* an internal Muslim issue, but the (technically non Muslim, by many interpretations of the Koran) radicals have forfeited the right for it to remain solely internal. They are going to get some outside interference (...) (23 years ago, 21-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Big bad greedy US capitalists exploiting the world
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(...) How did you do that? Directly? Too bad. You *missed* the point. The point is that you cost the Red Cross more (as a percentage of your donation) if you donate directly than if you donate via Yahoo or Amazon or MSN... every donation takes some (...) (23 years ago, 21-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Debunk this?
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(...) Nope, I didn't have anything else to direct at you. You answered my question honestly, it's not debunkable. I appreciate that. Thanks Dan. (23 years ago, 21-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Big bad greedy US capitalists exploiting the world
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(...) Thanks for posting this. I know there was some talk about a Lugnet community fund raiser type event, but it didn't get much response. I think at this time, people just want to straight out make an immediate donation. There's a celebrity (...) (23 years ago, 21-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | "The Roots of Muslim Rage"
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Another cite. I got this one from Slate -- it's an article by Bernard Lewis that was published in the Atlantic Monthly a while ago. (URL) the whole thing, but I'd like to quote from the last two paragraphs: "THE movement nowadays called (...) (23 years ago, 21-Sep-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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