 | | Re: 22/7 & infinities (was: Re: The nature of the JC god, good or evil?)
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This message is huge again! I wish I had as much free time at work as you, David. I still have an unfinished reply to one of your previous posts in a draft folder. Hopefully I can finish this one in one sitting... David Eaton wrote in message ... (...) (25 years ago, 15-Sep-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Voluntary, private discrimination (Was: Disparicies in Sentencing)
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<37DF8CDA.DA847F05@aeieng.com> <37DFA51E.EF0A5623@voyager.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit (...) I agree. I'll bite. :-, (...) Well, sure, I mentioned the Nuremburg Defense, true, but! It was well (...) (25 years ago, 15-Sep-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Voluntary, private discrimination (Was: Disparicies in Sentencing)
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Larry Pieniazek wrote in message <37DFA51E.EF0A5623@v...er.net>... (...) That was a cheap trick on Sproat's part. Without actually coming out and saying it, he got Scott to say it. So its cheating, no doubt about it, and Sproat loses (anyway, I (...) (25 years ago, 15-Sep-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Conversation w/ a LEGO Rep
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(...) And is that a good thing(Jags RULE, d00d!) or a bad thing (Lucas, prince of darkness.. motto of the Lucas electric works: "a good day's work and home before dark!") ? (25 years ago, 15-Sep-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Voluntary, private discrimination (Was: Disparicies in Sentencing)
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OK, who "lost"(1) this debate? Scott because he officially said the word "Nazi" first, or Sproat, who mentioned "Nurenburg Defense" which, although it does not explicitly contain the word, is clearly related? If it wasn't Sproat (judges, do we have (...) (25 years ago, 15-Sep-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Voluntary, private discrimination (Was: Disparicies in Sentencing)
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(...) Interesting, I have the same feeling about most of what you utter as well. Anyway, lets look into it. (...) That is one of the things that the military expects from you. If you don't like it, don't be in the military. Murder, whether at war, (...) (25 years ago, 15-Sep-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Voluntary, private discrimination (Was: Disparicies in Sentencing)
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Just doing my part, John! :) Scott S. (...) My constant enjoyment of life! (...) Yeah, it will just be peachy! :) (...) Here's another one: "Doing my part to enrage the atheist left." Have a great day! (25 years ago, 15-Sep-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Complex number theory (Was: God and the Devil and forgiveness)
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(...) I finally figured out what it was about this statement that bothered me! Math (a valid part of logic, arguably) has real difficulty resolving even low-order functions on 4-dimensional complex numbers (1). There are at least two main camps of (...) (25 years ago, 14-Sep-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: God and the Devil and forgiveness (was Re: POV-RAY orange color)
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(...) AAAAAGHH!!! This was *SUPPOSED* to say: "...I see no reason to not include the teaching of science in religion." Netscape's bogo-checker let that one through. ...Lest folks think of me as (more of) a jibbering lunatic... :-, Cheers, - jsproat (25 years ago, 14-Sep-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Conversation w/ a LEGO Rep
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(...) All I can say is that despite how nice Europe is, I could never live in Europe. Everything is just too expensive compared to the US. For example, I paid US$X for my car. It the UK, the car cost £X, and thats a big difference. And then there is (...) (25 years ago, 14-Sep-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Voluntary, private discrimination (Was: Disparicies in Sentencing)
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(...) They would justify it to themselves. From their point of view, you're part of the problem. Of course, you're perfectly justified -- from your end -- in defending yourself in any way you can. (...) You do have the right to withdraw at any time (...) (25 years ago, 14-Sep-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: 22/7 & infinities (was: Re: The nature of the JC god, good or evil?)
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(...) Ok, well, I'm not really concerned with what the dictionary says. Ask the dictionary what morality is, and I bet it won't define it as well as we've tried to here. If you want quick terminology, go to the dictionary; if you really want the (...) (25 years ago, 14-Sep-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Voluntary, private discrimination (Was: Disparicies in Sentencing)
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(...) Yup. And sometimes it's crystal clear. (...) Guess that depends on your perspective. They'd say yes, I'd say no, you'd probably agree with me. (...) In most cases, yes. And in most cases, obeying is almost a reflex. But there have been some (...) (25 years ago, 14-Sep-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Voluntary, private discrimination (Was: Disparicies in Sentencing)
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(...) I disagree, depending on circumstances. (And so do you, sort of.) Shooting helpless whomever is immoral if they're no threat. What if letting them live will allow them to further contribute to the infrastructure of war against your side? Kill (...) (25 years ago, 14-Sep-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Speeding: Prima facie negligence?
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Larry Pieniazek <lar@voyager.net> wrote (...) One measure of a democracy is whether you can vote for the revolution, I suppose. While I don't want the outcome you want, I'm inclined to agree that you deserve points for trying. But not many, since I (...) (25 years ago, 14-Sep-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Voluntary, private discrimination (Was: Disparicies in Sentencing)
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Mike Stanley <cjc@NOSPAMnewsguy.com> wrote (...) Mike, while I don't want to get into a debate with you about military service in general, the issue of "who is the enemy" is a very fuzzy one, and at various times all sorts of people have been (...) (25 years ago, 14-Sep-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Voluntary, private discrimination (Was: Disparicies in Sentencing)
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I'm answering, even though you adressed this the Chris Weeks: Scott Edward Sanburn <ssanburn@aeieng.com> wrote (...) No. It is not, and can never be. Simply killing someone is barely scratching the surface of hatred. (...) IMO, yes. "I kill you with (...) (25 years ago, 14-Sep-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Fair Auction? (Was Re: Honest Capitalism)
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(...) Sure - I don't have a problem with that. It'd make a change to make a profit! (...) If I have them and I don't want then then thats fine with me. Richard (25 years ago, 14-Sep-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Fair Auction? (Was Re: Honest Capitalism)
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(...) I tell you what - you find some 4558's for retail price at some old store and I'll buy as many as you have at 10% over retail. Better yet, I'll give you a list of parts that I want and the sets they're available in, and I'll gladly pay you 10% (...) (25 years ago, 14-Sep-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Fair Auction? (Was Re: Honest Capitalism)
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(...) I agree - and I think I answered it in: (URL) I won't waste disk space by repeating myself too much! :) Richard (25 years ago, 14-Sep-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Voluntary, private discrimination (Was: Disparicies in Sentencing)
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(...) I certainly don't think he meant to say that, although I can see how you might read it into it. Still, killing the enemy in wartime is not murder. Shooting helpless women and children in Vietnamese villages is murder, though, no matter who (...) (25 years ago, 14-Sep-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Voluntary, private discrimination (Was: Disparicies in Sentencing)
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(...) that. (...) legally, (...) I hope you can see just how stupid-sounding what you just said was. Murder is okay when done at the command of a military officer, but not okay when otherwise? Morality doesn't play into this at all; you just obey (...) (25 years ago, 13-Sep-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: 22/7 & infinities (was: Re: The nature of the JC god, good or evil?)
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<37DD1613.D194240B@uswest.net> <FI0oIw.2uo@lugnet.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit (...) Well, I would say that our (human's) natural tendency is to (...) (25 years ago, 13-Sep-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Fair Auction? (Was Re: Honest Capitalism)
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(...) You ask the same question later on, so I'll answer it there (...) I'd say, basically, any scheme, in order to be successful, needs to have buyers AND sellers. Right now, for example, SC has lots of sellers but not enough buyers. The window (...) (25 years ago, 13-Sep-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Fair Auction? (Was Re: Honest Capitalism)
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I think you should propose this idea to TLG. I think its a great idea ;-) -- Have fun! John Auctions and Trading and More at my Lego site: (URL) & IG88888888 on AOL Richard Franks wrote in message ... (...) not (...) same (...) this (...) it (...) (...) (25 years ago, 13-Sep-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Voluntary, private discrimination (Was: Disparicies in Sentencing)
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(...) Yeah, if it isn't football or some part of the local government badmouthing or suing another part, we pretty much don't hear about it. I didn't hear about this either. I don't listen to NPR, though. Can you get the over the net? -- The parts (...) (25 years ago, 13-Sep-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Voluntary, private discrimination (Was: Disparicies in Sentencing)
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(...) into (...) read (...) kids! Spoken like a true conservative! Bash those liberals! Hey, just think, as long as those "left-wing tree-hugging environmentalist wackos" wear their free rubbers and don't use dirty needles everything will be all (...) (25 years ago, 13-Sep-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: 22/7 & infinities (was: Re: The nature of the JC god, good or evil?)
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John Neal wrote in message (...) <snip> (...) without (...) because (...) one can (...) David, I think you are using definition #1, while we are using definition #2... 1 : a natural or inherent aptitude, impulse, or capacity <had an instinct for the (...) (25 years ago, 13-Sep-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: 22/7 & infinities (was: Re: The nature of the JC god, good or evil?)
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Christopher Weeks wrote in message <37DD1065.31A4EEC8@e...se.net>... (...) in (...) I covered this a little in my other post. I like cats, and I like the Eliot poem that ends like this: pondering the thought of thought of thought of his name... his (...) (25 years ago, 13-Sep-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Voluntary, private discrimination (Was: Disparicies in Sentencing)
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(...) crime (...) close. (...) I -did- hear this one on the news.. It was on National Public Radio News the other morning. It likely didn't make your local news, though. It didn't make ours either, but then, if it did, they would have to cut some of (...) (25 years ago, 13-Sep-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Voluntary, private discrimination (Was: Disparicies in Sentencing)
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(...) I must imagine so. I just wanted to make certain that killing a person is totally different when you are a soldier, and that they have training for that. I have the highest regards for the armed services, I am glad they are there! Murder is (...) (25 years ago, 13-Sep-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Fair Auction? (Was Re: Honest Capitalism)
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(...) Do you think that it is unworkable because of a problem with the auction mechanics, or because too many people believe too strongly in Capitalism? (...) I agree. Equal rights implies that at some level we are equal, that we deserve the same (...) (25 years ago, 13-Sep-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: McDonald's, LEGO and Ethics
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(...) Two relatively weak reasons... - economies of scale in media buys reduces ad cost which is a producer cost - increased volume of the underlying product reduces cost per unit produced, typically and one that's not usually in play - shifting (...) (25 years ago, 13-Sep-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Voluntary, private discrimination (Was: Disparicies in Sentencing)
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(...) Heh, that's a helluva understatement. Rather than say the military trains soldiers not to feel "bad" about killing the enemy (they're not people), I'd say we were trained to enjoy, even long for doing it. Luckily, a lot of that brainwashing (...) (25 years ago, 13-Sep-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Voluntary, private discrimination (Was: Disparicies in Sentencing)
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(...) Hrmmm.... I'm a soldier (was, anyway) and I don't think of myself as being able to kill without thought. Kill without hesitation, if the situation requires it, but certainly not without thought. Killing's a horrible thing, no matter how much a (...) (25 years ago, 13-Sep-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: McDonald's, LEGO and Ethics
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(...) Forgive me, I don't know much about economic theory, how does cross-promotion lowers costs to the producer? (...) Government scientists are good at that. :) Actually, most government scientists are great. The project I am working on today has (...) (25 years ago, 13-Sep-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Voluntary, private discrimination (Was: Disparicies in Sentencing)
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(...) I TRY to make it shorter. :) (...) I agree as well. (...) Oh, come on, Larry, I am not that bad, am I? ;) (...) Yes, I agree also. (...) I agree with the public schools and mandated prayer (not good), having a moment of silence or whatever is (...) (25 years ago, 13-Sep-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | t7po auto-pounce (was Re: Fair Auction? (Was Re: Honest Capitalism)
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(...) c /hansomer/handsomer/ I was NOT alleging that some of us look more like a horse drawn carriage than others do. followups to .pun (25 years ago, 13-Sep-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, lugnet.off-topic.pun, lugnet.off-topic.pun)
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| | Re: 22/7 & infinities (was: Re: The nature of the JC god, good or evil?)
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(...) Hmmm... I think the problem I have is making any real sort of line. On the one hand, I agree that reflex reaction certainly seems like it is different from instinct, as is the learned reaction, but then I have to question what examples of (...) (25 years ago, 13-Sep-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Fair Auction? (Was Re: Honest Capitalism)
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followups set to .debate Richard Franks wrote: <snipped interesting, (but IMHO unworkable) scheme> (...) I disagree. We are all unique, and therefore different, and therefore unequal, practically speaking. Now, it was the intent of our Founding (...) (25 years ago, 13-Sep-99, to lugnet.market.theory, lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Voluntary, private discrimination (Was: Disparicies in Sentencing)
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(...) Just to clarify, I was speaking of just citizenry, and everyday life. The military and soldiers is a totally different arena. The military trains you not to feel "bad" about killing people, it is one of your duties, if you are ordered so. (...) (25 years ago, 13-Sep-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Speeding: Prima facie negligence?
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<37D8033D.108EF440@voyager.net> <FHvs28.ELu@lugnet.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit (...) Sure. I did switch because I wanted to make a point. I think we all agree that some set of conventions is (...) (25 years ago, 13-Sep-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Latter Day Saints (was:Re: God and the Devil and forgiveness (was Re: POV-RAY orange color))
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(...) You paint religion with an awfully wide brush. My religion doesn't condemn anyone to hell. Of course many people do not consider my religion to be a religion since it doesn't even require one to believe in a god. (25 years ago, 13-Sep-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Voluntary, private discrimination (Was: Disparicies in Sentencing)
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<37DD088D.9D2803F1@aeieng.com> <FI07E8.I3A@lugnet.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit (...) me too (...) Agreed. I think constitutional amendments are needed for LARGE issues (like giving the vote to (...) (25 years ago, 13-Sep-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: 22/7 & infinities (was: Re: The nature of the JC god, good or evil?)
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<37DC9866.54DFFFBB@uswest.net> <FI02Gr.9tx@lugnet.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit (...) Unless we're in heaven;-) (...) That would be reflex, an (...) (25 years ago, 13-Sep-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Voluntary, private discrimination (Was: Disparicies in Sentencing)
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(I've snipped a lot here and there.) (...) I've read and heard so much about soldiers being able to "kill without thought" that I can't agree with this completely. If you don't have any morals, then you might not have to "hate" to kill. I'm not (...) (25 years ago, 13-Sep-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: McDonald's, LEGO and Ethics
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Below is something I read a while back about Coke in schools. I am curious how "Coke Day" could be considared academic. I guess it teaches uniformity. My college became Coke Free at the expense of gaining Pepsi. It was wierd- it seemed like they (...) (25 years ago, 13-Sep-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Voluntary, private discrimination (Was: Disparicies in Sentencing)
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Chris, (...) You totally dodged my question! Is killing a person an example of total hatred or not? So it is better to kill someone that you don't "hate"? Crimes are crimes, and as far as I am concerned, crimes are an example of hatred, period. (...) (25 years ago, 13-Sep-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: 22/7 & infinities (was: Re: The nature of the JC god, good or evil?)
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(...) Not to jump in for John N here, but I think this is just resultant of what was cut off in replies... I think what he was getting at was a sense of ethical equality, which he said is central to Libertarianism. The top bit looks like it was cut (...) (25 years ago, 13-Sep-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: 22/7 & infinities (was: Re: The nature of the JC god, good or evil?)
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(...) Like I said to John N, I'd say they're both encompassed by what we want. The idea I was trying to present was "we want *something*, and to get that something is good". That's the fundamental emotion. That something can encompass both the (...) (25 years ago, 13-Sep-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: 22/7 & infinities (was: Re: The nature of the JC god, good or evil?)
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<37DC9866.54DFFFBB@uswest.net> <FHzyB1.3zB@lugnet.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit (...) I'm not trying to take this out of context, but do you really mean this? If not, what do you mean? If so, I (...) (25 years ago, 13-Sep-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Latter Day Saints (was:Re: God and the Devil and forgiveness (was Re: POV-RAY orange color))
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(...) To some extent elected officials, but mostly businesses which have a strong lobby. (...) Right, but they don't do too bad either. (...) Well, I'm glad that I entertain you. They who? Governmental employees? Supporters of the government? Which (...) (25 years ago, 13-Sep-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Killing (was: Re: Voluntary, private discrimination (Was: Disparicies in Sentencing))
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<37DC6E8E.6E78EEF4@eclipse.net> <FHztB9.Lx5@lugnet.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit (...) I agree, but while you value happiness, others value (human) life. (...) Here in the US, not quite so (...) (25 years ago, 13-Sep-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: 22/7 & infinities (was: Re: The nature of the JC god, good or evil?)
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(...) Well, I'd classify that under what I said, actually... I was trying to pick out the root desire-- And I'd certainly qualify living as one of the things we want. Another way to look at it is that happiness presupposes survival. We can't easily (...) (25 years ago, 13-Sep-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: 22/7 & infinities (was: Re: The nature of the JC god, good or evil?)
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John Neal wrote in message <37DC9866.54DFFFBB@u...st.net>... (...) x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" (...) want to (...) fundamental. (...) pleasureable and (...) even (...) another one (...) This (...) of (...) and (...) me; does (...) instinct (...) (...) (25 years ago, 13-Sep-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Killing (was: Re: Voluntary, private discrimination (Was: Disparicies in Sentencing))
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Christopher Weeks <clweeks@eclipse.net> wrote (...) In a way, yes. Faced with someone in the business of murder, I have no philosophical qualms about killing them if that is the only way to stop them. Wiranto is a name that springs to mind now, (...) (25 years ago, 13-Sep-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Killing (was: Re: Voluntary, private discrimination (Was: Disparicies in Sentencing))
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John Neal wrote in message <37DC7797.C52E5404@u...st.net>... (...) God, or all (...) Which is nonsense is in the way of belief I think. Muslim belief is based on "everything on earth and in universe", either bad or good is for human being. (...) (25 years ago, 13-Sep-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: 22/7 & infinities (was: Re: The nature of the JC god, good or evil?)
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<FHrMEp.Et3@lugnet.com> <FHssu0.zJ@lugnet.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit David Eaton wrote: <snip Dave and John discussion of basis of morality, logic (...) (25 years ago, 13-Sep-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Killing (was: Re: Voluntary, private discrimination (Was: Disparicies in Sentencing))
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(...) Yeah, a couple of idiots who happen to be Christian and Muslim speak for God, or all of Christianity or Islam. Or maybe not. (...) Ethics 101, two wrongs don't make a right [1] -John [1] but three lefts do. (...) (25 years ago, 13-Sep-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Latter Day Saints (was:Re: God and the Devil and forgiveness (was Re: POV-RAY orange color))
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<FHwnDv.rC@lugnet.com> <37DC7251.4794C59D@eclipse.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit (...) And *who* might those people be? Because the reality is that (...) (25 years ago, 13-Sep-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Latter Day Saints (was:Re: God and the Devil and forgiveness (was Re: POV-RAY orange color))
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(...) I don't usually like 'me too's, but I was going to say something much like this. Governments claim to be good, and for organization and economy of scale, and they throw bones to the masses just enough to stay in power - for a time. But the (...) (25 years ago, 13-Sep-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Crazy Larry (was: Re: Voluntary, private discrimination (Was: Disparicies in Sentencing))
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(...) What evidence do you have of that? I've not heard a public claim to that effect. I think John's wrong too. I don't agree with you 100% because you're too moderate. Sincerely, Chris (25 years ago, 13-Sep-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Killing (was: Re: Voluntary, private discrimination (Was: Disparicies in Sentencing))
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(...) As you note below, your standard is that happiness is central to your philosophy. For those who disagree, their conclusions would be different. (...) Don't be silly, no 'animals' can experience unhappiness. God put them on this earth for us to (...) (25 years ago, 13-Sep-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: interesting story
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(...) Hahahahaha, no. I didn't even notice that the first time I read it. :) -- The parts you want and nothing else? (URL) - Just Another Brick Auction Why pay eBay? Run your own LEGO auctions for free! (URL) (25 years ago, 12-Sep-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: interesting story
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....and you stumbled across this story because it took place in Belleville? :-) (...) (25 years ago, 12-Sep-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Voluntary, private discrimination (Was: Disparicies in Sentencing)
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Mike Stanley <cjc@NOSPAMnewsguy.com> wrote (...) Both, actually. Don't you think it's inhumane to hold the threat of death over someone, randomly giving them hope of survival then taking it away, never setting the actual execution date but always (...) (25 years ago, 12-Sep-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Killing (was: Re: Voluntary, private discrimination (Was: Disparicies in Sentencing))
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Mike Stanley <cjc@NOSPAMnewsguy.com> wrote (...) Case one: humans. Should not be killed unless obsolutely necessary. Reasons? Killing reduces happiness not just in the victim, but also in their community. And can further reduce happiness in a wider (...) (25 years ago, 12-Sep-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | interesting story
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Just read this story on CNN.com (URL) a feel-good fluff kinda piece, but I thought it was cool. Interesting to note that the taxes he chose to pay for all of that amounted to $25 million. I guess that would be easier to swallow if we knew that $25M (...) (25 years ago, 12-Sep-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Killing (was: Re: Voluntary, private discrimination (Was: Disparicies in Sentencing))
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(...) Wondering if he means for food (which I'm willing to accept - it IS hard to defend in a lot of cases, although I love a good steak as much as the next guy) or for sport, as in the case of trophy hunters, which is impossible to defend, imo, or (...) (25 years ago, 12-Sep-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Voluntary, private discrimination (Was: Disparicies in Sentencing)
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(...) Don't yet torture criminals? Are you saying that the death penalty is torture? Or are you saying something about the way prisoners are treated in the American prison system? (...) Spike Lee (and others) believe that, from what I hear. The (...) (25 years ago, 12-Sep-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: McDonald's, LEGO and Ethics
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(...) At the school my kids go to there is Coca-Cola everywhere! Coca-Colas is advertised through out the school, including the football field. Plus, it is sold all over the school. They used to sell Pepsi and Coke, until Coca-Cola started this (...) (25 years ago, 12-Sep-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Voluntary, private discrimination (Was: Disparicies in Sentencing)
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<37D9198D.F509D002@aeieng.com> <FHwp1p.2Kn@lugnet.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit (...) A lot of the readership here is convinced I am delusional. Don't make it worse! I doubt very much that your (...) (25 years ago, 11-Sep-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Voluntary, private discrimination (Was: Disparicies in Sentencing)
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Scott Edward Sanburn wrote in message <37D9198D.F509D002@a...ng.com>... (...) articulate it better than I! (...) I'm with you, Scott! I think all these characters really agree with Lar 100% but love to read his eloquent diatribes so much that they (...) (25 years ago, 11-Sep-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Latter Day Saints (was:Re: God and the Devil and forgiveness (was Re: POV-RAY orange color))
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John Neal wrote in message <37DA72D1.544B539@us...st.net>... (...) the (...) I was speaking for myself on this - I don't know how it stands in other people's minds. It could be that Moz is upset with me for quoting him so much, but he deserves it - (...) (25 years ago, 11-Sep-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Latter Day Saints (was:Re: God and the Devil and forgiveness (was Re: POV-RAY orange color))
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(...) Please, this is utter nonsense. In your minds you may think that is the reason; maybe it makes you feel more comfortable about not being apart of a Church I don't know, but your perception has little to do with reality. At the very least (...) (25 years ago, 11-Sep-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Voluntary, private discrimination (Was: Disparicies in Sentencing)
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<37D91476.CE6058F6@voyager.net> <FHvuvH.H9D@lugnet.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit (...) Taxes are pretty public. Should they be nondiscriminatory? (...) Arguably, speeding isn't a crime since there (...) (25 years ago, 11-Sep-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Killing (was: Re: Voluntary, private discrimination (Was: Disparicies in Sentencing))
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<37D91372.E6E0B943@aeieng.com> <FHvtH0.G4z@lugnet.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit (...) I would like to hear why killing animals is hard to defend. Given what premises? --Chris (25 years ago, 11-Sep-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Latter Day Saints (was:Re: God and the Devil and forgiveness (was Re: POV-RAY orange color))
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(...) prohibition Read what Moz wrote. Repeat it again. Theft is at the core of Christian beliefs. The Church (and almost any religion) was *founded* for the purpose of stealing money from the multitudes for the purpose of making the people who run (...) (25 years ago, 11-Sep-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Voluntary, private discrimination (Was: Disparicies in Sentencing)
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Sproaticus <jsproat@io.com> wrote (...) Expression in what way? Larry seems to mean "anything at all that is legal in any context". See my other posts :) (...) The way the law is written, I doubt it. Mostly there are big escape clauses in those (...) (25 years ago, 11-Sep-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Voluntary, private discrimination (Was: Disparicies in Sentencing)
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Larry Pieniazek <lar@voyager.net> wrote (...) In that context I still think there is a boundary to be drawn. Is this a personal relationship, like friendship, or a public one, like offering haircuts? IMO anything in the public side *must* be (...) (25 years ago, 11-Sep-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Voluntary, private discrimination (Was: Disparicies in Sentencing)
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Scott Edward Sanburn <ssanburn@aeieng.com> wrote (...) The abortion thing is probably a better example of why hate crimes are worse than random ones. Those doctors are killed to terrify other abortionists, and so the hate part of the crime is not (...) (25 years ago, 11-Sep-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Speeding: Prima facie negligence?
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Larry Pieniazek <lar@voyager.net> wrote (...) You've switched immediately from laws which are codified conventions to laws which attempt to enforce possibly immoral behaviour. What happens to a society where only half the members behave as you (...) (25 years ago, 10-Sep-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Voluntary, private discrimination (Was: Disparicies in Sentencing)
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<37D72389.74A66C33@io.com> <FHu88B.8It@lugnet.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit (...) Whoa whoa whoa. I was talking about expression, not homicide. My right to express myself extends as far as it (...) (25 years ago, 10-Sep-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Latter Day Saints (was:Re: God and the Devil and forgiveness (was Re: POV-RAY orange color))
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(...) What's wrong with a church which you CHOSE to belong to setting requirements on that belonging? As far as I am aware, there is nothing in the U.S. (and most European countries) REQUIRING you to belong to a church. WHy shouldn't the church (...) (25 years ago, 10-Sep-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Voluntary, private discrimination (Was: Disparicies in Sentencing)
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All praise Larry! ;) I think we are the exact same wavelength, here, Larry, but you seem to articulate it better than I! Scott S. Larry Pieniazek wrote: <snipped Larry's excellent discussion for brevity> (25 years ago, 10-Sep-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: McDonald's, LEGO and Ethics
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(...) THANKS!!! I appreciate the praise. :-) I'm not sure if cross promotion necessarily (...) Well, there's merit in your analysis, but I was referring to the cost to the producer of the good rather than the consumer. Lowering producer costs (...) (25 years ago, 10-Sep-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Voluntary, private discrimination (Was: Disparicies in Sentencing)
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Chris, (...) What does this have to do with private institutions? (...) I am sorry, but I think hate crime legislation is very wrong. How can you hate anyone anymore than by taking his life? It it worse to kill a room full of Jewish people than a (...) (25 years ago, 10-Sep-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Voluntary, private discrimination (Was: Disparicies in Sentencing)
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<37D72389.74A66C33@io.com> <FHu88B.8It@lugnet.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit (...) I'm not following you here, Moz. To me, when I say discrimination by a private individual, what I am referring to is (...) (25 years ago, 10-Sep-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Voluntary, private discrimination (Was: Disparicies in Sentencing)
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<37D72389.74A66C33@io.com> <FHu88B.8It@lugnet.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit (...) I believe that killing abortion doctors is no worse than killing random strangers. Actually, I have rather more (...) (25 years ago, 10-Sep-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Latter Day Saints (was:Re: God and the Devil and forgiveness (was Re: POV-RAY orange color))
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<37D857A5.EE5161B3@voyager.net> <FHu9rK.AFL@lugnet.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit (...) ?!?!?!? I like out of context snips. --Chris (25 years ago, 10-Sep-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Latter Day Saints (was:Re: God and the Devil and forgiveness (was Re: POV-RAY orange color))
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(...) My fiancee's father is an H&R Block person, and he is on his way to being a CPA as well. I read some of the material he was working on for his studies, and it was Greek to me. It is so horrendous that most people now just have it done for (...) (25 years ago, 10-Sep-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: New Zealand (was: Re: Latter Day Saints (was:Re: God and the Devil and forgiveness (was Re: POV-RAY orange color)))
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Christopher Weeks <clweeks@eclipse.net> wrote (...) More or less amicable, I think. Put it this way, our "race issues" are more about why relatively few Maori get elected to parliament or go to college than why so many get killed by racist thugs. (...) (25 years ago, 10-Sep-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Latter Day Saints (was:Re: God and the Devil and forgiveness (was Re: POV-RAY orange color))
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John DiRienzo <ig88888888@stlnet.com> wrote (...) The people who arrived in NZ before the white ones. Between about 500AD and about 1500AD there were several waves of Polynesian immigrants, followed by the "discovery" of NZ by Abel Tasman, and the (...) (25 years ago, 10-Sep-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Latter Day Saints (was:Re: God and the Devil and forgiveness (was Re: POV-RAY orange color))
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Larry Pieniazek <lar@voyager.net> wrote (...) No, because it was in a context where we were talking about the behavior of governments. I say again, it is necessary to distinguish between behaviours that are appropriate for the community as a whole, (...) (25 years ago, 10-Sep-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Voluntary, private discrimination (Was: Disparicies in Sentencing)
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Sproaticus <jsproat@io.com> wrote (...) I'm afraid I have to disagree with both of you. Take hate crimes. I do think they should be discriminated against. You fry someone for a string of 1st degree murders? OK, so do something worse for a string of (...) (25 years ago, 10-Sep-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Latter Day Saints (was:Re: God and the Devil and forgiveness (was Re: POV-RAY orange color))
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Christopher Weeks <clweeks@eclipse.net> wrote (...) Yes. And that's a very good argument for throwing it away. Tax does not *have* to be complex. Did you know that the NZ tax code for private income earners (your personal tax return) is down to (...) (25 years ago, 9-Sep-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Latter Day Saints (was:Re: God and the Devil and forgiveness (was Re: POV-RAY orange color))
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(...) I know very little about the tax code itself, but one of my best friends is an accountant and she is the first to admit she doesn't know everything, or even a little bit, about some kinds of taxation. That's why they have several accountants (...) (25 years ago, 10-Sep-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Latter Day Saints (was:Re: God and the Devil and forgiveness (was Re: POV-RAY orange color))
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<37D44B67.BC996AD6@voyager.net> <FHtIB8.M2G@lugnet.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit (...) I'm replying to you in this thread so it may seem like I'm picking on you. I don't intend that it seem that way (...) (25 years ago, 10-Sep-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: McDonald's, LEGO and Ethics
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(...) products (...) without (...) happening to (...) be a (...) car, a (...) the (...) our (...) Yeah I'd be uneasy about this. It does seem unethical. My reasoning? We'd all agree that taking something that legitimately belongs to them by force is (...) (25 years ago, 10-Sep-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Latter Day Saints (was:Re: God and the Devil and forgiveness (was Re: POV-RAY orange color))
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(...) On this subject, I wonder if we're both making the mistake of trying to rationalise people's motives too much. There are a few of us here - people like you, me John DiR, Christopher Weeks, and others, who have come to different conclusions, (...) (25 years ago, 10-Sep-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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