Subject:
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Re: Latter Day Saints (was:Re: God and the Devil and forgiveness (was Re: POV-RAY orange color))
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Newsgroups:
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lugnet.off-topic.debate
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Date:
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Sat, 11 Sep 1999 15:18:48 GMT
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Reply-To:
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johnneal@uswest.net^Spamless^
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Viewed:
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1612 times
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John DiRienzo wrote:
> > > Here is Moz' original post that I was referring to:
> > > > No. Theft is at the core of Christian beliefs. For starters the
> prohibition
>
> Read what Moz wrote. Repeat it again. Theft is at the core of Christian
> beliefs. The Church (and almost any religion) was *founded* for the purpose
> of stealing money from the multitudes for the purpose of making the people
> who run it very rich - that it is why it was created.
Please, this is utter nonsense. In your minds you may think that is the
reason; maybe it makes you feel more comfortable about not being apart of a
Church I don't know, but your perception has little to do with reality. At the
very least provide evidence or examples.
> This is the same as
> any government that has ever been formed (even the US'). The motive behind
> these institutions is evil, while the rhetoric appeals to the strongest
> emotions we have
Again, nonsense. Governments are created to organize society, to provide
order. Are you saying anarchy and chaos are *good*?
> (like security, charity and justice). Even though, now, in
> the US, it is a choice to belong to a church, it can be very difficult to
> throw off 2,000 years of tradition - so the church (which is losing members
> at an overwhelming pace, fortunately)
Again, you post from ignorance. Maybe you shouldn't comment on something about
which you know so little.
> continues to steal from its faithful
> followers. I don't dislike Christians for belonging to churches, but I
> don't like people (who run churches, and governments) that steal from
> others, especially in the name of something which is supposed to be "good."
We have covered this. Tithing, giving money to a church is no different than
sending money to the Red Cross to assist those affected in Turkey for example.
IT IS VOLUNTARY. You may think people are stupid for giving their money away
to those in need. Fine, that's your prerogative. But please stop calling it
stealing.
> > What's wrong with a church which you CHOSE to belong to setting
> > requirements on that belonging? As far as I am aware, there is nothing
> > in the U.S. (and most European countries) REQUIRING you to belong to a
> > church. WHy shouldn't the church collect momey to support itself, in
> > fact, you are "stealing" if you wish to avail yourself of the churches
> > services without contributing to that church (of course if the church
> > feels you are "deserving" of charity, then they may chose to extend
> > those services to you without cost, or for a reduced cose).
>
> Hey, its your choice, foolish as it may (or may not) be.
>
> > Now the church of old is a different story.
>
> Less different than you seem to think, IMO.
>
> > Only if you grant "the church"/"god" the power condemn you to hell. If
> > you don't grant this power, then you needn't let the church "steal" from
> > you. If you do grant this power, then it seems to me that you accept the
> > premise of that church, and should then accept the requirement to
> > contribute.
>
> The people who don't grant that power don't belong to churches. I can't
> speak for those who belong to churches - I honestly don't understand why
> they do.
You can't speak (intelligently at least) for much on this subject because you
are ill-informed. Your perceptions of the Church are locked in somewhere in
the Middle Ages-- a few things have happened since that time (The Reformation,
for one). You look at a few examples of abuse of power/corruption/etc in the
history of the Church and label it thus, all Churches, all the time. If I read
tomorrow that Lar has wigged out and stormed S@H and had taken pallets of Lego
hostage, could I safely conclude that all Libertarians are nuts?....Hmmm, bad
example;-) But you see my point. When you espouse generalizations and hearsay
you get weak and IMO slanderous arguments.
So give it up (John et Moz). The Church is *not* an example of stealing--
stick with sticking it to the government.
-John
>
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