 | | Re: Evolution vs Scientific Creationism
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(...) A creator is not a theory. It fails the falsifyability test. You seem not to understand this... (...) The evidence indicates support for the Big Bang (I think that's a misnomer in modern terminology, but OK...) and as Dave! is relating quite (...) (22 years ago, 12-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: slight
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(...) You've lost me. To what idol are you referring? (...) Jesus Himself deviates from the Passover rite. He instituted a new one during the old one (the oldest rite that is still observed today, AFAIK). Jesus *IS* the pascal lamb. The blood of (...) (22 years ago, 12-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: slight
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(...) Ya, me too. Of course, I may have read a different version than you... in my view Job should never have been allowed to remain in the bible as it spells things out quite clearly for those paying attention. It reveals the true nature of the (...) (22 years ago, 12-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Evolution vs Scientific Creationism
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(...) I had no idea that Stone Age was an unpc term. I must update my civilization terminolgy lexicon. Mabye metallurgically challenged? Not preferring alloys? Archae/anthro 'gists have been the worst ambassadors and tomb raiders since recorded (...) (22 years ago, 12-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Evolution vs Scientific Creationism
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(...) I'm OK with that so far as it goes... Tribes in the stone age ARE less developed. And I am perfectly OK characterising my life (and my society) as "better" than theirs. We have LEGO(r). They don't. QED. Next! ++Lar (22 years ago, 12-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: slight
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In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Richard Marchetti writes: Richard, please stop baiting John. (22 years ago, 12-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Evolution vs Scientific Creationism
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(...) Careful, your (non classical) liberal education is causing you to use loaded words... that they happen not to be correct is an added bonus for those keeping score at home. (22 years ago, 12-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Evolution vs Scientific Creationism
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(...) That may be true, but I wonder: When evolution is taught in schools, is it preceded by the topic "origin of the universe"? That seems logical to me, and I'd be willing to bet that Big Bang garners all of the press (to the exclusion of (...) (22 years ago, 12-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: slight
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(...) It could be seen as a kind of idolatry. But it also suggests that your faith is whatever you think it should be. I am not seeing any citations or authorities for the practice of either Xmas or Easter here, John. (...) As performed during a (...) (22 years ago, 12-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Evolution vs Creationism
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(...) Okay, but it's still not scientific. My claim that I just came back from the men's room is falsifiable, but that's not really scientific, either. (...) The flood story? the GLOBAL flood story? Not hardly. And anecdotal examples of failures of (...) (22 years ago, 11-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: slight
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(...) Of course. Job is a very interesting book that attempts to honestly deal with the question of why bad things happen to good people. In a way, it is a revolt against the notion of obedience = blessings and the reverse. ILR, sometimes the (...) (22 years ago, 12-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: slight
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worst thread ever. -c ps. i mean this is a good way... seriously, this is one of the most amazing debates ever. :) (22 years ago, 12-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Evolution vs Scientific Creationism
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(...) Because "tribes in the stone age" is a severe value judgement. It implies that they exist along a continuum that has us at the "good" end and them at the "primitive" or less developed end. That's the core of development theory. And it's (...) (22 years ago, 12-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: slight
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(...) And Job too? (22 years ago, 12-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: slight
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(...) I think it's irrelevant who started it. The incarnation of God is a pretty special event, to say the least. To argue that it is somehow wrong to celebrate Jesus' birth without a written command to do so is specious. (...) Sorry. *THAT* is (...) (22 years ago, 12-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Evolution vs Scientific Creationism
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(...) thanks for clarifying to me that I'm not a racist there, I was wondering about that for awhile now, nice for you to set me straight. As far as it being a useless point out of context, I was replying to a statement that dolphins could not see (...) (22 years ago, 12-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Evolution vs Creationism
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(...) Well, the point on this one was that I think Dave! insinuated that in order for a theory to be 'scientific', one requirement was that the theory must be able to make predictions. And I disagreed with that assertion. That's where this one was (...) (22 years ago, 12-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Evolution vs Creationism
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(...) rather than 1/3 which is I think what I heard the stat as... sorry 'bout that one... DaveE (22 years ago, 12-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Evolution vs Scientific Creationism
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(...) (probably should clarify--I'm not calling you racist, but calling the example one that's generated by racist hierarchy and totally useless in the context.) -LFB (22 years ago, 12-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Evolution vs Scientific Creationism
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(...) I call "bullhockey." Citation, please. This just screams residual imperial mentality and the racist anthropology of the pre-WWI era--and the fact that you use it to make a point about nonhumans is extremely problematic. best LFB (22 years ago, 12-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Evolution vs Scientific Creationism
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(...) Ya know, I think that's the most succinctly phrased understatement I've heard in a long time. thanks James (22 years ago, 12-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Evolution vs Scientific Creationism
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(...) Well, people have been saying that all along!!!! What took you so long? Science in general has nothing to say about faith based beliefs other than "they are outside the purview of science". You can't use science to prove or disprove them. But (...) (22 years ago, 12-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: slight
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(...) Who exactly is "whomever" and why do you believe in the things they may have stated? How or why does whomever's views supersede the red letter words of Jesus? (...) I think "communion" is another man's creation. Jesus kept the Passover. If you (...) (22 years ago, 12-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Evolution vs Creationism
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(...) Chris (22 years ago, 12-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Evolution vs Scientific Creationism
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(...) But no one said that about evolution. I don't even thing that anyone asserted that about science. I happen to not believe in any kind god-stuff, but that has nothing to do with the topic. Even if I did, it would still be clear that evolution (...) (22 years ago, 11-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Evolution vs Scientific Creationism
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When anthropologists encountered stone age tribes in Africa they exposed them to many objects of the industrial world including pictures. They didn't perceive them as a representative image, let alone the object they were depicting. To expose a (...) (22 years ago, 11-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Evolution vs Creationism
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(...) Yep, thank you for clarifying that for the audience. I suppose I could have emphasized the term "scientific" rather than "valid", but it seems perfectly clear to me the way I originally wrote it. I don't oppose the teaching of creationism, I (...) (22 years ago, 11-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: slight
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(...) I should clarify. When it was decided by whomever to celebrate the birth of Jesus, the day of the year with the shortest amount of light was chosen (the winter solstice) which also happened to be a day which the pagans celebrated as well. (...) (22 years ago, 11-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Evolution vs Creationism
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(...) I cited one aspect of the Big Bang, that's all. You usually have some kind of evidence, contruct a model, and then see if you can find new evidence to confirm or deny the theory. I spoke from the standpoint of the model, not the actual linear (...) (22 years ago, 11-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Evolution vs Creationism
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(...) <goad> Well, it's because the other 33% are Hindus and Jews, and the rest aren't really humans. </goad> The figure is closer to 30-35%, by the way. (URL) best LFB (22 years ago, 11-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Evolution vs Scientific Creationism
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(...) To clear up after reading my post and realizing that I didn't complete this thought--I was thanking James for his well worded response. It was shown to me thusly (trashing God) in parts of this debate and I appreciate his efforts to clear it (...) (22 years ago, 11-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Evolution vs Scientific Creationism
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(...) Now this is refreshing--'The theory of Evolution' and saying that it has nothing to do with the plausibility of God. For the record, I believe the world to be millions of years old. I believe the universe to be even older. I believe that there (...) (22 years ago, 11-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: slight
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(...) "wrong":-) (...) Truly I wasn't offended, just giving you a hard time, although I did think you were being intentional. (...) Really? :-) (...) Easy there. I really think there are valid points to my argument-- I *do* believe in separation of (...) (22 years ago, 11-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Evolution vs Scientific Creationism
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(...) Really? Now, I'd call them both rational (==logical?) decisions, there's just less support for the 2nd as opposed to the 1st. IE I'd be "less sure" of the 2nd assumption than the 1st. Which is really how I feel about Creationism. It's not that (...) (22 years ago, 11-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: slight
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(...) Traditional to whom John -- pagan Xtians? Christ was a jew that told you to practice the Passover. Do you practice the Passover? This just shows the height of your madness, as usual. Please do not respond to my posts. It's not a troll to show (...) (22 years ago, 11-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Evolution vs Scientific Creationism
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(...) [snip] (...) Well, there are only three organisms that routinely recognize individual identity through graphic representations and the notion of self as tested with a mirror. Dolphins aren't one of them. We are. Obviously there is yet much to (...) (22 years ago, 11-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Evolution vs Scientific Creationism
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(...) Once again, the difference between species isn't something magical, or even obvious. It's (usually) merely a matter of reproductive capacity. There are many, many examples of two species that are so similar that only recently have scientists (...) (22 years ago, 11-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Evolution vs Creationism
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(...) Seriously? Where'd you get that stat? Chris (22 years ago, 11-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Evolution vs Scientific Creationism
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(...) Let me play off this idea for a minute... The problem with faith-based assertions in a category like debate is that it tends to operate as a trump card of a kind. Faith-based assertions are not logical -- they skip over such a concern and go (...) (22 years ago, 11-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: slight
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(...) What's the "W" word? "Dubya" ?? We don't use *that* word in our house if we can help it... (1) :-) (unfortunately there's nothing funny about that man. Our last halfway decent prez was Ronnie, since then we've had a succession of duds.. and he (...) (22 years ago, 11-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Evolution vs Scientific Creationism
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(...) <...> (...) <...> (...) Dave, I think you have a fundamental misunderstanding about what evolutionary theory is. I would encourage you to step back from the evolution:creation debate, and try and look at the theory of evolution from within a (...) (22 years ago, 11-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: slight
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(...) I think you are confusing it with the pagan celebration of the winter solstice (Christmas was traditionally celebrated on the day when there was the least amount of light-- in the northern hemisphere:-)-- as the day when the light came into (...) (22 years ago, 11-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Evolution vs Scientific Creationism
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(...) In fact, the coelecanth *has* undergone further change. Genus Latimera is unknown in the fossil record; it is *a* coelecanth, but there are many, many types. A few of the changes that have happened to the coelecanth since the end of the (...) (22 years ago, 11-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: slight
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(...) These are two really different things. For the record, Christmas is not a Christian holy day -- it is a pagan holiday. Some of its practices are even condemned in as ancient a text as the book of Jeremiah (probably as idolatry): ~~~...~~~ 10:2 (...) (22 years ago, 11-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: slight
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(...) Yes;-) I know you, Lar, and I know that you *deliberately* didn't capitalize "Christmas". One's personal feelings about religions, etc, are irrelevant to grammar, unless someone is trying to make something of it as you were in your own little (...) (22 years ago, 11-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: slight
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I think from the whole tone of the subsequent discussion that I should have put smileys everywhere. I was originally going for the humourous ribbing--wink wink nudge nudhge--who really cares--i mean, take a look at the last line I put about (...) (22 years ago, 11-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Evolution vs Scientific Creationism
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(...) Rational: After repeated trials eliminating as many external variables as possible, it is apparent that penicillin has a positive medicinal effect on the disease tuberculosis Intuitive: I slept with the window open, and my tuberculosis (...) (22 years ago, 11-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Evolution vs Scientific Creationism
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(...) False. Evolution describes the changes to fit the environment (simplifying greatly). If the Ceolacanth evolved to the point *where it succeeded in its' environment*, it doesn't necessarily have to change any more to fit Evolutionary Theory. (...) (22 years ago, 11-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Evolution vs Creationism
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(...) Well, that's not the part that's falsifiable. And, I agree-- if we take the absolutemost non-literal translation of the Bible and say 1 day = 8.6 billion years or what-have-you, then yes, you're right, it may *not* be falsifiable. Certainly (...) (22 years ago, 11-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Evolution vs Creationism
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(...) But I could say the same about the existence of an infinite Being. <snipping here> (...) This is because science is using a loaded bat (to continue the metaphor). The presuppositions of science are that if you can't test it, observe it, (...) (22 years ago, 11-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Evolution vs Scientific Creationism
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(...) Once again, the difference is jumping species. Whether it's 2 years or 2 thousand years, or 2 million years, a fish is still a fish. Sure, it adapted over the course of those millions of years to climate changes, grew a new fin to help it (...) (22 years ago, 11-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: slight
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(...) You have misidentified me, sir. I do not find it vexing in the least when people omit the (tm) on things. I personally could care less about the entire matter, except for the slight fact that I have trademarks that I have invested effort in (...) (22 years ago, 11-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Evolution vs Creationism
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(...) I think you reversed the prediction with the evidence. The evidence was (IIRC) that galaxies are all moving away from each other, and the *conclusion* was that the Big Bang happened. There is no "Therefore, BECAUSE the Big Bang happened, X". (...) (22 years ago, 11-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Evolution vs Scientific Creationism
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(...) BTW, it's bugging me that people haven't detailed the fish yet, just because I used to follow the info on it closely. It was just in the last decade or so that they've caught LIVE ones for scientists. For the longest time, they were just (...) (22 years ago, 11-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Evolution vs Scientific Creationism
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(...) I dunno if I'd go so far as to distinguish these two methods of reasoning as much as you'd like to... Could you give me an utterly basic example of each? (...) Ah-- so here's the clutch. Your argument is that your reasoning is superior to (...) (22 years ago, 11-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Evolution vs Creationism
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(...) What? Of course the Big Bang theory makes predictions. Virtually any model makes predictions. You then see if observable data matches the predictions - in the case of the Big Bang, are galaxies (or more properly galactic groupings) moving away (...) (22 years ago, 11-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Evolution vs Creationism
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(...) Actually, no it's not. At least, not Christian Creationism, which is really what we're talking about. The presence of an omnipotent being by definition eliminates all falsifiability or empirical verification--two necessary criteria for a (...) (22 years ago, 11-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Evolution vs Scientific Creationism
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(...) "Micro-evolution" and "macro-evolution" are creationist terms, not terms used by scientists. That should tell you something right away. Further, in evolution, what you would call "macro-evolution" is nothing more than "micro-evolution" over a (...) (22 years ago, 11-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Evolution vs Scientific Creationism
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(...) Well, don't condemn me for the assumptions *you're* making. Here's a restatement: A: Rational reasoning is based on experience and observation of verifiable evidence B: Intuitive reasoning is based on feelings and impressions independent of (...) (22 years ago, 11-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: slight
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In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Larry Pieniazek writes: <snip> (...) It wasn't specifically the (tm) issue I was referring to. As one of the people who find it vexing when folks wrongly leave off the (tm) off things that should have the (tm), you should (...) (22 years ago, 11-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: slight
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(...) <pedant> Doing so is presumably taking a position on the whole religion thang (albiet a pretty mild expression thereof), and of course your right to free expression and all that jazz. But Dave is still correct in that Christmas is a proper (...) (22 years ago, 11-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Evolution vs Scientific Creationism
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In lugnet.off-topic.debate, David Koudys writes: Well, super. After I climb all the way up onto my high horse someone comes along with a polite and articulate post (and he's Canadian, of all things!) Some great points follow: (...) "Missing link" (...) (22 years ago, 11-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Evolution vs Scientific Creationism
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In lugnet.off-topic.debate, David Eaton writes: <snippety snip> (...) I'm OK with that view! (does that come as a shock to anyone???) Reason is our evolutionary advantage. If you can't or won't reason, you're repudiating your humanity. I'm an (...) (22 years ago, 11-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Evolution vs Scientific Creationism
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(...) Mabye this seems cold but I feel that this has to do with continuity of the species. Maternal instinct is found in many species to varying degree, as is monogamous relationships. Monogany helps assures fidelity, security and assures the (...) (22 years ago, 11-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: slight
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(...) No it wouldn't, but it would be incorrect in my view, when referring to things that happened around that time. We don't celebrate the christian christmas. (...) It's not a trademarked name. Unlike Father's Day(tm) which Hallmark(tm) invented. (...) (22 years ago, 11-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Evolution vs Creationism
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(...) Disagree-- but you won't like the answer. (...) Sure it is. It's just that *IF* most Creationists were presented with conflicting data, they'd choose to ignore or dismiss it. Just like you ignore or dismiss the Bible as evidence against (...) (22 years ago, 11-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: slight
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(...) But would it kill ya to put a Capital C on Christmas? I mean, being the (tm) truant for LUGNET(tm) and Guild of Bricksmiths(tm), you, Larry, of all people, should realize the vexing incurred by those that read something like that. Think of it (...) (22 years ago, 11-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Evolution vs Scientific Creationism
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(...) Very well thought out and written, Dave! A few of my thoughts and ideas (that I can guarantee won't be as thought out nor in any sense a coherent order)... I find that there are fellow Christians out there who *have* to hit others over the (...) (22 years ago, 11-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Evolution vs Creationism
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(...) Well, you're making several different points here, so let's take them one by one; First off, John R's not saying Creationism isn't "valid;" he's saying that it's not a "valid scientific theory," and he's 100% correct. Creationism is not (...) (22 years ago, 11-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: slight
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(...) Hey, you're the winner, J-1, and for your prize, you get the white elephant *I* got "stuck" with at my last such gift exchange during Christmas last year-- a sculpted dog on his back/invisible tape dispencer:-) -John (22 years ago, 11-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Evolution vs Scientific Creationism
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(...) Isn't accusing someone of using "falacious logic" an insult to their person? IE assuming they're a lesser one? I think the assumption you're making is that "I would *never* come to that conclusion, but you would, and that conclusion is (...) (22 years ago, 11-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Evolution vs Scientific Creationism
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(...) Only in part. I was partly refering to the trend to dismiss faith-based arguments, but I was more speaking to the further dismissal of anyone bringing forward faith-based arguments. John (Neal)'s borne the recent brunt of this, but he's by no (...) (22 years ago, 11-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: slight
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(...) Yes, that's what he indicated to me offline. My immediate family only celebrates the secular traditions that exist and are celebrated at that time of year, and "winter solstice celebration" is a bit too hard to type. :-) (22 years ago, 11-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: slight
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(...) I'm guessing Mr. Neal is referring to the non-capitalization of "Christmas"... (22 years ago, 11-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Evolution vs Scientific Creationism
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(...) I'm one of those people, so I'll offer something of an explanation. It's not that we (allow me to presume to speak for others who share my view on this) think an anti-evolutionist is a lesser *person,* but it is almost invariably the case that (...) (22 years ago, 11-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Evolution vs Scientific Creationism
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(...) I think this is the attitude that James B. was referring to. Let me ask you, what's not "valid" about Creationism? I don't think 'science' can or will be able to disprove it-- although I don't doubt that it will find mounds more evidence to (...) (22 years ago, 11-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: One nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.
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(...) Dang, I think ya got me there, finally. Bruce :-) (Dubya only hurts when I smile....and frown...and grimmace...and....) (22 years ago, 11-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Evolution vs Scientific Creationism
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(...) I don't have a problem if someone believes in a higher power, wants to attend a church, etc. This is America and you have that personal right. I DO have a problem when lawmakers in Ohio try to push their religious views into public school (...) (22 years ago, 11-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Evolution vs Scientific Creationism
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(...) That's basically the conclusion that I came to. When someone asks "well then where did the universe and all this stuff come from?", I reply "Can you phrase that question without invoking within it concepts of spacetime itself?" (i.e. cause & (...) (22 years ago, 11-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Evolution vs Scientific Creationism
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(...) my bad and duly noted. I did say in that post 'The intial spark of life is debatable too' which I really should have clarified at the beginning as well. Your explanation as to how evolution does not get involved into that murky area is great, (...) (22 years ago, 11-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Evolution vs Scientific Creationism
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(...) it's a nice universal way of summarizing. as long as it's not taken to a kilgore trout level it's interesting speculation. although I am an adament supporter of evolution, it is on a level of faith. I havn't looked through the microscopes or (...) (22 years ago, 11-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: One nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.
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(...) Okay, okay, I admit I got a bit sloppy there. Let's say we are a nation that tolerates having Dubya as president. Isn't there some saying about the people getting the governement they deserve? Maggie (who will mind her own p's and q's if only (...) (22 years ago, 11-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: PNLTC Centralia Meeting Pictures Up
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(...) ?? (22 years ago, 11-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Evolution vs Scientific Creationism
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(...) Oh, it helps-- but only insofar as whether or not I want to argue with people. It helps my sense of wanting to be "right" by saying "hey, they can believe what they want". In other words, by believing in such a theory, I'm less inclined to (...) (22 years ago, 10-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Evolution vs Scientific Creationism
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(...) does existential second guessing paranoia work in other areas of your life? yes we can all pretend that we're in the matrix but I'd sooner make decisions based on commonly agreed upon fact of our time, unless proven otherwise. Who has time to (...) (22 years ago, 10-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Evolution vs Scientific Creationism
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(...) I'd sure say so. One root problem being (I think) that science has an awful definition of what it means to be alive. Evolution wants to separate itself from cosmology because it doesn't really have anything to say about the Big Bang or the (...) (22 years ago, 10-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Evolution vs Scientific Creationism
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I don't have a problem with someone believing in a Greater Being... What I DO have a problem with is the following: IF such a Greater Being exists, why is he/she/it such a bastard? I don't take with the Watchmaker theory, it basically doesn't jive. (...) (22 years ago, 10-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Evolution vs Scientific Creationism
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(...) I disagree. Evolution does not speak to the origins of life on a particular planet. It merely posits a mechanism by which life on that planet, once underway (by whatever way it came into being, which Evolution is mute on), can fill all (...) (22 years ago, 10-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Evolution vs Scientific Creationism
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(...) Evolution isn't trying to explain the universe. You seem to be stumbling over that. (...) Now *THIS* I can agree with (the reaction, not the notion). It's an impression I've had for a long time in .debate, although I don't think anyone's (...) (22 years ago, 10-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Evolution vs Scientific Creationism
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(...) Evolution is concerned with the origins of life not the universe. Those are unrelated fields of science, only associated by the fact that they are scientific pursuits. Theories and conceptions of the origin and nature of the Universe have (...) (22 years ago, 10-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: One nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.
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(...) There's a joke in there, alright, trouble is, it's in the White House! :-) Do you mean was I joking? No, of course not. Are you saying Uncle Tom Thomas isn't an unthinking bag man for the conservatives? Are you saying that there weren't (...) (22 years ago, 10-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Evolution vs Scientific Creationism
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(...) I can accept the matter and energy thing, but wouldn't that suppose that life and non-life are merely facets of the same thing, which would suggest that evolution and cosmology are intertwined? (...) Yes. It is a paradox, and thus illogical (...) (22 years ago, 10-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: One nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.
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(...) This is all a joke, right? You people have gotten over the election and have moved on, right? I only ask because there are those who *still* fume about it... (Not that there's anything *wrong* with that!) [1] -John [1] My new (borrowed), (...) (22 years ago, 10-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Evolution vs Scientific Creationism
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(...) I think my own explanation is that your question forces conditions that weren't. Like me asking you if you stopped killing babies or some nonsense like that, since you never *were* killing babies in the first place. Essentially, there *is* no (...) (22 years ago, 10-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Evolution vs Scientific Creationism
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(...) Hmm. I see your point, but am still a little fuzzy as to the distinction. Evolution, AFAIK, attempts to trace life back to proteins in a sea of goop, but then again, I think it would be fair to ask from where the goop came, and so on. -John (...) (22 years ago, 10-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Evolution vs Scientific Creationism
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(...) The general understanding of the universe isn't evolution, though. It's cosmology. Evolution has to do with life from the point of the planet's formation--you can, in fact, divorce them; if you talk about cosmology you're moving (as Dan points (...) (22 years ago, 10-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Evolution vs Scientific Creationism
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(...) but that's not about evolution anymore - it's the origins question, I believe. I think it's ok to say I don't know what happened then, but to me, the most logical thing that was before the big bang, was another universe... basicly, we have a (...) (22 years ago, 10-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Evolution vs Scientific Creationism
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(...) If I may pose a question: Evolution is basically the theory that stuff comes from stuff that came before it. If you take stuff all the way back to the Big Bang (or whatever universe starting event you wish), where logically did *that* stuff (...) (22 years ago, 10-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Evolution vs Scientific Creationism
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(...) It's not "my theory," and in fact it's very logical--and where it's not, it is open to challenge and change. That's the strength of science--that it's willing to admit that it does not have all the answers, yet. Remember that before (...) (22 years ago, 10-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: One nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.
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(...) I chop down trees, I wear high heels, Suspenders and a bra. I wish I'd been a girlie Just like my dear papa. -John (22 years ago, 10-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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