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> In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Richard Marchetti writes:
> > In lugnet.off-topic.debate, John Neal writes:
> > I should clarify. When it was decided by whomever to celebrate the birth of
> > Jesus,
> Who exactly is "whomever" and why do you believe in the things they may have
> stated? How or why does whomever's views supersede the red letter words of
> Jesus?
I think it's irrelevant who started it. The incarnation of God is a pretty
special event, to say the least. To argue that it is somehow wrong to
celebrate Jesus' birth without a written command to do so is specious.
> > In a manner, yes. Every time a Christian takes communion, it is a
> > remembrance of Jesus' last supper (which was a Passover seder).
> I think "communion" is another man's creation.
Sorry. *THAT* is considered a direct command from Jesus:
"Then he took bread, and after giving thanks he broke it and gave it to them,
saying, "This is my body which is given for you. Do this in remembrance of me."
And in the same way he took the cup after they had eaten, saying, 'This cup
that is poured out for you is the new covenant in my blood.'"
Luke 22:19-20
> Jesus kept the Passover. If you claim to follow Jesus, why do you keep
> "communion" and not the Passover? If you don't follow Jesus, what exactly do
> you claim about the existence of God? Who is your god?
The God of Abraham, Jacob, and Isaac. Jesus gave to us the new covenant.
> Luke 22:8 And he sent Peter and John, saying, Go and prepare us the
> passover, that we may eat.
> > However, since He was crucified during that time, celebrating His
> > resurrection has kind of trumped the actual observance of Passover.
> Says who? Not Jesus -- he instituted an overlay on top of the existing
> Passover tradition. Can you direct me to a biblical citation that notes the
> creation of either Xmas or Easter? And if not, why do you practice what I
> know to be pagan rites?
They may be celebrated concurrently with pagan rites, but they have nothing to
do with them. BTW, when I say "celebrate", I use it not in the context of
festivities, but in the context of worship, as in "celebrating Mass".
Again from Luke 24:
"..and said to them, "Thus it stands written that the Messiah would suffer and
would rise from the dead on the third day, and repentance for the forgiveness
of sins would be proclaimed in his name to all nations, beginning from
Jerusalem. You are witnesses of these things."
> Is it the case that you believe in Jesus as a divine being capable of things
> like a resurrection? And if you do, why don't you practice the things he
> stated explicitly?
God raised Jesus from the dead. As I have mentioned elsewhere, the nature of
Jesus is very complicated. But if you are wondering whether or not I believe
He has authority, well then, yes I believe He does.
> You say not to blame the messenger, but you're all I have when it comes to
> your wacky beliefs John -- my point is that I don't think you know what you
> believe or why you believe it.
You are certainly free to believe that. I'm unclear as to which "wacky
beliefs" you are referring, but rest assured, I know what and why I believe
what I do.
-John
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Message has 2 Replies:
 | | Re: slight
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| (...) It could be seen as a kind of idolatry. But it also suggests that your faith is whatever you think it should be. I am not seeing any citations or authorities for the practice of either Xmas or Easter here, John. (...) As performed during a (...) (22 years ago, 12-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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Message is in Reply To:
| | Re: slight
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| (...) Who exactly is "whomever" and why do you believe in the things they may have stated? How or why does whomever's views supersede the red letter words of Jesus? (...) I think "communion" is another man's creation. Jesus kept the Passover. If you (...) (22 years ago, 12-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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