 | | Re: War
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|
(...) Well spotted. (...) I shall be clearer : Ask me a question to which I can qive a yes/no answer, and I'll give it one. (...) Because you never started? Scott A (...) (23 years ago, 7-Oct-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| |
| | Re: 6776... Is this True?
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|
i think what we have here is a confusion of violence with conflict violence is death and destruction. bombs destroying buildings, guns killing people. what lego has created in the past and now is conflict. pirates vs. imperials. conflict but they (...) (23 years ago, 7-Oct-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: This is disgusting!...
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|
(...) Destroy the Taliban, it's incredible what they get away with. No-one really has the right to say what and how someone can live, and just because they are in the place to think they can, and this is, man and women in control, really they can't, (...) (23 years ago, 7-Oct-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: The big lie
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(...) Right, but that doesn't change the "need for culpability" argument one bit. In fact following this thread of it circles you from the more general "how to make flying safe" theme we were on for the last few posts, and back around to the "how to (...) (23 years ago, 6-Oct-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: War
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(...) Whoa! You're starting to get a bit on-topic (Lugnet)! Maybe you should've set follow-ups to .market.b-s-t???? ROSCO (23 years ago, 6-Oct-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: The big lie
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(...) Except if the pilot decides to make it unsafe. There's always a human factor, as the skillful pilots showed on Sep 11. ROSCO (23 years ago, 6-Oct-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Gotta love Oracle...
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|
(...) No, this is a kind of fraud. But the fact that something is illegal is not a justification for every possible sort of remedy that any law enforcement officer can dream up. So while showing up for someone else's test IS fraud, it does not, in (...) (23 years ago, 6-Oct-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, lugnet.loc.pt)
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| | Re: Gotta love Oracle...
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(...) It wasn't exactly rhetorical...I don't know for sure what's legal in all the European nations. But, if it requires "special permission" then it's a priviledge, not a right. (...) Absolutely. The citizens of the US do not have a right to drive. (...) (23 years ago, 6-Oct-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Gotta love Oracle...
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(...) off (...) You might not want your parentage known under any circumstance where parentage matters. If you are a mix of ethnicities, one or more of which are discriminated against, you might not want it obvious. If your parent is (in)famous, you (...) (23 years ago, 6-Oct-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, lugnet.loc.pt)
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| | Re: Gotta love Oracle...
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Hello Larry, (...) I feel sufficiently free :-). But seriously: Can you elaborate a bit? I would be seriously interested which of your freedoms could be affected. Greetings Horst (23 years ago, 6-Oct-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Gotta love Oracle...
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Hello Chris, (...) This is a rhetorical question, isn't it? Presumably you already know we do have that right, but only after we get a special permission. But then, I could ask, are you allowed to drive? And your answer would be about the same: Yes, (...) (23 years ago, 6-Oct-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Gotta love Oracle...
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|
Hello Larry, (...) So, you think it would be OK to ... ... send someone else to a college test instead of showing up personally? ... drive with someone else's driver's license? (...) So, at least one thing works better in Europe than the US ;-) (...) (23 years ago, 6-Oct-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, lugnet.loc.pt)
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| | Re: Gotta love Oracle...
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|
(...) Ok, please point some reasons to me. I may even write a memo to the ID bureau here (no kidding!) if they are irrefutable. (...) a) I can demonstrate my identity through a couple of friends WITH ID if I don't have mine. b) You keep *dental (...) (23 years ago, 6-Oct-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, lugnet.loc.pt)
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| | Re: Gotta love Oracle...
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|
(...) Actually, me too. It is possible in the US to divorce oneself from their SSN, and I have not done that. They make sure it's a gigantic hassle. (...) I could come up with a number of reasons that a person might not want their parentage or (...) (23 years ago, 6-Oct-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, lugnet.loc.pt)
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| | Re: Gotta love Oracle...
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|
(...) That is something beyond my will to fight against. Here we have a whole bunch of cards, numbers, ID's, licenses (Hunters need some seven or so different papers)... None of them is *too* invasive to our privacy - I have not heard of anyone (...) (23 years ago, 6-Oct-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, lugnet.loc.pt)
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| |
| | Re: Freedom vs. Wellfare (was: War)
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(...) Potentially, if that's what the mother wants to do. (...) Where does this money come from? Taxpayers, or voluntary contributions? If the former, it is *less* just to extort funds from yet more victims (the taxpayers) to allow the father to (...) (23 years ago, 6-Oct-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Gotta love Oracle...
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|
(...) Briefly? No. (...) That is why we have a Constitutional Court: it decides if the laws passed on by Parliament are according to the Constitution. You see, we *also* have a Constitution... :-P (...) Individuals can apply for the use of such (...) (23 years ago, 6-Oct-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: War
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|
Hello Larry, (...) It seems to me that this discussion is getting too confrontational. Also, for me the question should be WHAT EXACTLY you understand to be freedom rather than WHETHER OR NOT you understand what freedom is. In the light of some (...) (23 years ago, 6-Oct-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Freedom vs. Wellfare (was: War)
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(...) I agree with most of that, including that it is not just that the child suffer for the fault of the father. But I could imagine some other ways of ensuring that he doesn't, besides allowing adoption. Isn't there quite possibly a mother who (...) (23 years ago, 6-Oct-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: This is disgusting!...
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(...) Just so it isn't just women posting on this thread, I totally agree. Men aren't exactly rolling in clover either, but women are getting one of the worst deals ever... (yes, there are worse out there, true) (23 years ago, 6-Oct-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Gotta love Oracle...
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|
(...) Can you briefly enumerate your rights? I just don't know what they are. Also, it depends on what you count as a right. We have rights guarenteed by our constitution that are actually not granted by inferior laws. I still consider them rights (...) (23 years ago, 6-Oct-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: The big lie
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|
(...) such (...) I would certainly rather not have my plane fall from the sky. That is precisely why I'd rather there be real consequences to such an accident. I assume and believe: 1) Getting airplanes to fly doesn't require voodoo. 2) A well (...) (23 years ago, 6-Oct-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Gotta love Oracle...
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|
(...) Well, the more they can do with it, the worse that will be done. But I'm opposed to any required identification including our Social Security Number. (...) Why should a test proctor be required to see your parents' names or your marital (...) (23 years ago, 6-Oct-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, lugnet.loc.pt)
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| | Re: Gotta love Oracle...
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|
(...) I don't think that time will really come. As the laws move that way, the underground economy -- which is already substantial -- will blossom and expand from the margins into the mainstream. Further, if such legislation were ennacted, I think (...) (23 years ago, 6-Oct-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: This is disgusting!...
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(...) Yes, it is absolutely sickening and sad what the Taliban has done to women in Afghanistan. CNN has been running a documentary called Beneath The Veil. A female reporter sneaked in a camera and taped how the women are existing. It is scheduled (...) (23 years ago, 6-Oct-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | This is disgusting!...
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I know Women in Afghanistan and other countries are treated terribly... but this is disgusting! (URL) (proud to be a woman! I am not a feminist and the like, but respect goes both ways) (23 years ago, 6-Oct-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Gotta love Oracle...
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(...) Why so? I'd go even further and say the ID card is sometimes practical (there is a better word in portuguese, but I cannot recall the translation). (...) Man, you are wicked... :-P *Date* of emission... or something like "Issued in Porto, on (...) (23 years ago, 5-Oct-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, lugnet.loc.pt)
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| | Re: The big lie
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(...) Very understandable. We all want to minimise risk! You may want to consider not getting out of bed in the morning, then, on a regular basis. It's a big bad risky world out there. Except, wait, that turns out to be riskier than being active. (23 years ago, 5-Oct-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Gotta love Oracle...
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(...) (snipped) (...) Out of curiosity, what kind of rights do you have that we don't, and which might benefit us if we had them? Or said differentely, what rights would you be sacrificing? Pedro (23 years ago, 5-Oct-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Gotta love Oracle...
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(...) See, that you think these reasonable is itself symptomatic. (...) Your ID card tracks emissions? :-) (lesse, mine would say Hot Air, some methane, some foam) (...) Right, we have those too with respect to SSN. Didn't work. ID cards are bad (...) (23 years ago, 5-Oct-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, lugnet.loc.pt)
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| | Re: The big lie
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|
(...) A lot of good that does the people that die from the incident. I would rather choose not to be one of those people. -- | Tom Stangl, iPlanet Web Server Technical Support | Sun Microsystems Customer Service | iPlanet Support - (URL) Please do (...) (23 years ago, 5-Oct-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Interesting if true
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(...) No, it's pretty clear that he was IN Afghanistan, then left, then went back. This fits the known timeline of his movements. Doesn't mean it's true, of course (23 years ago, 5-Oct-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Gotta love Oracle...
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(...) Wouldn't. I used to like Larry quite a bit better 6 weeks ago than i do now. Unless he's convinced it's inevitable even if he doesn't believe in it, and his "free" software is a trojan horse to sell other software and services, in which case (...) (23 years ago, 5-Oct-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: War
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(...) Right! This is exactly what I am advocating. Disassemble the country and reassemble it correctly. (23 years ago, 5-Oct-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: The big lie
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|
(...) I'll take the other side of that bet in a heartbeat. As long as I get to set the overall rules of the game, that is. You can even call me on whether they conform to my principles or not. (...) Won't happen... unless that's the right outcome. (...) (23 years ago, 5-Oct-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Gotta love Oracle...
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|
In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Christopher L. Weeks writes: (snipped) (...) Hi Chris, Maybe the reason you are experiencing such a fear is the fact that ID card is supposed to be "High Tech"... I have had a National ID card for ten years, and I only (...) (23 years ago, 5-Oct-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, lugnet.loc.pt)
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| | Re: Gotta love Oracle...
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Yes, the national ID card will be used with some effectiveness to fight international crime and terrorism. But in the midst of that fight our politicians will remain politicians. They will still fall in love with power and they will still propose (...) (23 years ago, 5-Oct-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Gotta love Oracle...
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|
(...) 'Life as an Office Christmas Party." A more horrifying dystopia I cannot imagine. (...) If there's a slippery slope to be found here, you might have just hit on it--it might be justifiable to implant an "insulin regulator" chip or an "epilepsy (...) (23 years ago, 5-Oct-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Gotta love Oracle...
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|
(...) Well, produce it on command is what I meant. Though, having to wear it is even creepier. "Hi, my name is Chris!" (...) Yeah. I don't want _them_ implanting chips in newborns. OTOH, if there are nifty chips that we can implant to improve (...) (23 years ago, 5-Oct-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Gotta love Oracle...
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(...) I'm missing something in this--do you mean if you're required to display it (wearing it on your lapel) or produce it on command (hey you, show me your ID)? Either would be objectionable, I agree, but I'm curious about which you meant (...) (23 years ago, 5-Oct-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Gotta love Oracle...
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(...) Maybe the card itself is not a civil rights violations, but the many activities for which they will use such a thing are. First, if I'm required to disply my shiny new Federal ID, I consider it unreasonable search. I think of the right to (...) (23 years ago, 5-Oct-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: War
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(...) I could sell her some LEGO, but I'd expect that were she in the market, she would buy from Scott. Chris (23 years ago, 5-Oct-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| |
| | Re: Interesting if true
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|
Hello Larry, hello everybody, (...) How does it fit with earlier claims that bin Laden has been one of "our bastards" in the Soviet-Afghanistan war? Can he have acted from Sudan, or shouldn't this rather indicate he went to Afghanistan earlier than (...) (23 years ago, 5-Oct-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Gotta love Oracle...
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|
... for offering some hot air? Imagine, we would have been be able to identify airline passengers with 100% accuracy even before 911. How would that have helped to prevent anything of what happened? That said, I don't feel like a photo and a (...) (23 years ago, 5-Oct-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| |
| | Re: War
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|
Hello Larry, (...) I think the question here should not be so much "is the actual number 500k or maybe 80% less or more", but instead: "What can we do to fix the problem." One possibility would be to lift the sanctions. In terms of military buildup (...) (23 years ago, 5-Oct-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: War
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(...) Then you're going to have to deal with Scott's mother-in-law. Dave! (23 years ago, 5-Oct-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| |
| | Re: The big lie
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|
(...) That's fine on paper, but I'm willing to bet that airlines will, in really short order, retain the most expensive and effective lawyers money can buy, far in excess of the ability of the individual to afford, even if a class-action suit is (...) (23 years ago, 5-Oct-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| |
| | Re: War
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|
(...) one. (...) I presumed that the second 'question' above was supposed to be 'answer.' And so I assumed that you meant you would answer with a 'yes' or a 'no.' Is that not what you meant, or did you fail to do so? (...) I have not stopped beating (...) (23 years ago, 5-Oct-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| |
| | Re: War
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|
(...) suffer. (...) only (...) if (...) still (...) Tough. I'd do it. We must be better than that. (...) I agree. I think I was nearly assaulted at work when an argument became heated and when I was called unamerican, I responded that they (the (...) (23 years ago, 5-Oct-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: The big lie
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|
(...) Why the smiley? It's certainly good enough for me! What better to avoid such disasters than the certainty that rapid and humongous suits would follow? Chris (23 years ago, 5-Oct-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| |
| | Re: War
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|
(...) I would not dare hit her.. You've never seen my wife's mother. How about you? Scott A (...) (23 years ago, 5-Oct-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| |
| | Re: War
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|
(...) I agree with you to very large extent. But when one is faced with grieving relatives it is very difficult to argue against the retribution argument. On a macro scale this was what was happening in the US in the days after the 11th; a lot of (...) (23 years ago, 5-Oct-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| |
| | Re: War
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(...) Have you stopped beating your wife? Chris (23 years ago, 5-Oct-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| |
| | Re: War
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|
(...) That's easy. Either the fence builder built a hazardous obstruction on land not his own, or the passer by was trespassing. (...) There's no such thing. The punisher is at fault, in my opinon (but it can only _be_ opinion...there is no right (...) (23 years ago, 5-Oct-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| |
| | Re: War
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|
(...) What if passers by cut themselves on the barbs? (...) ...only if the punishment is just. Scott A (...) (23 years ago, 5-Oct-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| |
| | Re: War
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|
(...) Just a second. Larry states an opinion - but cannot justify it to me or others. I debunk it anyway. He still holds the same opinion - but still does not justify it. And you are calling *me* bull-headed? Scott A (...) (23 years ago, 5-Oct-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| |
| | Re: War
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(...) Riiiiight. Scott A (...) (23 years ago, 5-Oct-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| |
| | Re: War
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|
In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Larry Pieniazek writes: Oh, and further, in the general case, it is the parent that is at fault when the parent does not adequately provide for the minor child. Not external factors or causes that the parent could have (...) (23 years ago, 5-Oct-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: The big lie
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|
(...) But Tom... Under the system proposed by Larry, if your plane were to fall from the skies your loved ones would be able to tale the airlines to the cleaners. Is that not good enough for you? :) Scott A (...) (23 years ago, 5-Oct-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| |
| | Re: War
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|
(...) I doubt that is LP policy... I may be wrong. Did I say Larry should agree with it just because it is related to the LP? (...) My skull is the normall thickness thak you! (...) I think there is. (...) Perhaps if Larry answered my point this (...) (23 years ago, 5-Oct-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| |
| | Re: War
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|
(...) What I want to do is divorce causality from fault to a certain extent here. Factors in FB Sr.s environment may well have contributed to his being a bad person, ("caused it") but remember the scenario, we assume a just finding of homicide as a (...) (23 years ago, 5-Oct-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| |
| | Re: Thank you, Britain.
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|
(...) That's fine. I'm certainly not from the "government can do no wrong" school, or even the "government is mostly right" camp. (...) I have doubt too. I'm just not sure it's *reasonable* doubt, given the large NUMBER of people (from a lot of (...) (23 years ago, 5-Oct-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| |
| | Re: The big lie
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|
(...) I'd be in the air that very day. :-) (...) That would be a great place to start... we should be pushing for it. I wrote my rep and my senators about it already, although now that the bailout passed, getting it undone isn't likely. (23 years ago, 5-Oct-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| |
| | Re: War
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|
(...) Riiiiight. I think you need to read the last day or two in here - he asked a simple yes/no question, and you dodged it with "is this a question?". -- Tom Stangl ***(URL) Visual FAQ home ***(URL) Bay Area DSMs (23 years ago, 5-Oct-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| |
| | Re: War
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|
Scott, How bullheadedly DENSE are you going to be? You only seem to be this stupid when answering Larry's posts, I think it's time you at least try to engage your brain before answering any posts from him... (...) SO WHAT?!? Larry has repeatedly (...) (23 years ago, 5-Oct-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| |
| | Re: The big lie
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|
Larry, This is all fine and good, but IF they were to fully privatize airlines/airports/ma...nance/etc, and remove the liability shields........ how long would YOU wait before flying again? I sure as hell wouldn't fly for many years. I wouldn't want (...) (23 years ago, 5-Oct-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| |
| | Re: War
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|
(...) Yes, let's. (...) I'm not asking for a debate, just that you justify your comments. It is that simple. (...) Or one you can't respond to? (...) Larry. I don't try to dictate the "conversation" here. Go check how many threads I have started in (...) (23 years ago, 5-Oct-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| |
| | Re: War
|
|
(...) Even when it is put in context (which you deleted): ==+== It was made by a Libertarian Congressional Candidate 2000. He was apparently against the "violence and economic sanctions perpetrated by our government’s policies towards Iraq". ==+== (...) (23 years ago, 5-Oct-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| |
| | Re: The big lie
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|
(...) Punctuation. It is not a flame (you are so confrontational), just a clarification. (...) Larry, I am still not clear what the point of you message is/was. Scott A (23 years ago, 5-Oct-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| |
| | Re: War
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|
(...) Let's be clear here. I am just NOT going to get into an open ended debate with you on whether I understand freedom or not. That is so laughable an allegation that it's not worth responding to. Further you don't get to dictate where the (...) (23 years ago, 5-Oct-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| |
| | Re: The big lie
|
|
(...) I have made some changes and insertions so that the resulting statement is one that I agree with. (...) c/private/mixed/ (Mixed economy corps, not private. If they take bailouts, invoke liability shields, and use subsidised facilities, they (...) (23 years ago, 5-Oct-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| |
| | Re: War
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|
(...) No, I do not disagree with this comment. There is no inconsistency with what I am saying, either. The sanctions are ineffective, but are not a "punishment" any more than a fence is a punishment to a cow. (23 years ago, 5-Oct-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| |
| | Re: The big lie
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|
(...) Seemed pretty obvious to me. It is a yes/no question. (...) Are you actually engaging in grammar flaming? That's a yes/no question, by the way, in case you weren't sure. If you're going to ding me for a misplaced question mark (which in this (...) (23 years ago, 5-Oct-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| |
| | Re: War
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|
(...) That's right, answer just one issue in the *hope* you score a cheap point. (...) Can you support this, or is it mere opinion. Do you think the UNICEF data and opinion I quoted was wrong? Do you still stand by this: ==+== I reject that the (...) (23 years ago, 5-Oct-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| |
| | Re: War
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|
(...) Do you disagree with this comment: "Just because Saddam Hussein doesn’t care about the children doesn’t mean that it is acceptable for us to punish the innocent and helpless when he hides behind them. We should confront dictators face-to-face (...) (23 years ago, 5-Oct-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| |
| | Re: War
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|
(...) Yes. This leg has nothing to do with whether the stat is right or whether the causality link is there. (23 years ago, 5-Oct-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| |
| | Re: War
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|
(...) No, I'm not. (23 years ago, 5-Oct-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| |
| | Re: War
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|
(...) Have you even read my replies to Frank? Scott A (23 years ago, 5-Oct-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| |
| | Re: The big lie
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|
(...) What is the question? It reads like some sort of order, but is has a "?" at the end. (...) Where? (...) In what way? (...) Nope. Market forces in forced this issue. (...) Should I? (...) I should? Scott A (...) (23 years ago, 5-Oct-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| |
| | Re: War
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|
(...) Not valid. I cited UNICEF statistics *&* opinion. Free free to debunk it. (...) You are deluded. An argument has been presented by more than just me and this is the best you can do to counter it? I would have had more respect for you if you (...) (23 years ago, 5-Oct-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| |
| | Re: War
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|
(...) This is a joke coming from you, in the last weeks you have shown me that you don't understand (amongst other this): Freedom Liberty Freedom of Speech Freedom & liberty From (URL) > As for "first principles", I have become convinced that you (...) (23 years ago, 5-Oct-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| |
| | Re: Thank you, Britain.
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|
(...) Why not? (...) The fact that the evidence which is been presented is all circumstantial, very simplistic in nature and collected by agencies who have failed in the past. When I read the evidence, I have to ask myself why the USA was not on a (...) (23 years ago, 5-Oct-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: War
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Hello Dave, hello everybody, I have followed the discussion about responsibility for Iraqi people a while, and what it boils down to is: Different people have different definitions of responsibility. First, there is the humanistic definition: People (...) (23 years ago, 5-Oct-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: The big lie
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(...) ??? The FAA has fined airlines many times for rebadging used parts (or dangerous/damaged parts) as certified for re-use. Seems damned obvious to me that the private corps are trying to cut widget maintenance costs IN SPITE OF government agency (...) (23 years ago, 5-Oct-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: War
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(...) So to clarify, are you saying that FB jr should pay for FB sr's mistake? In that case, shouldn't you extend your definition to be something like "society is set up to allow people (and their families) to reap ..."? ROSCO (23 years ago, 5-Oct-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Thank you, Britain.
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(...) afraid. No need for fear 8?) The original comment was directed at Mr Blairs assertion that we should "Be in no doubt Bin Laden and his people organised this atrocity,", and I'm afraid (!) I can't just dismiss my doubts because he asks me to. (...) (23 years ago, 5-Oct-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: War
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(...) Acha! That's the crucial bit. "More FBS's fault than the government's". I.E. not to say that the government isn't at fault-- that would be (I think it is)misleading. But more to say that it is FBS's actions which, "should" have changed-- or (...) (23 years ago, 4-Oct-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: War
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(...) Can you elaborate on what you mean by "fault !=bad" then? Maybe there's some fundamental misunderstanding here... However: I'll reiterate, FB Jr.s pain is FB Srs fault more than anyone else's. Reread the cite I gave... you're going down the (...) (23 years ago, 4-Oct-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: War
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(...) An "out"? I never said he had an "out". An "out" implies removal of responsibility perhaps, but not of fault. Perhaps a re-reading of my two posts is in order. I feel a little like I'm entering the "Scott-and-Larry show" on this one... DaveE (23 years ago, 4-Oct-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: War
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(...) Nope. That cite in fact does get to the root of the assertion you make. Saying that FB Sr. has an out because he had a bad childhood is egregious bogosity. (23 years ago, 4-Oct-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: War
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(...) that fault != bad. Saying that the US isn't at fault is erroneous. Saying that you stand behind our actions insofar as you think things would have been *WORSE* had we acted differently or not at all is what I expect you to mean. Per your (...) (23 years ago, 4-Oct-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: War
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(...) Tsk tsk yourself. I'm comfortable I've got the causes pegged correctly. (URL) (23 years ago, 4-Oct-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Thank you, Britain.
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(...) Thanks for the snide comment but which of those three choices were you going with? Calling him a failed politician isn't an answer either. Pick one of the above or show that I omitted one possibility and let me know what it is? (...) This was (...) (23 years ago, 4-Oct-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: War
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(...) Such sweeping assumptions on causality. Tsk tsk. By pulling back the causal loop one step further to point the finger at FB Sr. instead of the government that imprisoned him is no better than to step back one step further and point the finger (...) (23 years ago, 4-Oct-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: The big lie
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(...) Me too. This is a very valid concern, and it's true for more than just this particular instance. So you should support mechanisms that are likely to reduce the probability of corners being cut and oppose mechanisms that are likely to increase (...) (23 years ago, 4-Oct-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: War
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(...) A great explanation of this was given by Dave! (...) The original cite of "debunk this" deconstructs the UN statistics. Statistics have a way of getting cited and re-cited, and those cites get recited by those that want the statistics to be (...) (23 years ago, 4-Oct-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: War
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(...) So you are comfortable with fixing the past mistakes we made in supporting the thugs in Iraq and then in leaving the job undone the first time we had a chance to clean up the mess, then? The implication of that, of course, is that you support (...) (23 years ago, 4-Oct-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Historical Significance of Iraq
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(...) <snip> Excellent list. It is a real tragedy that this country is currently run by a thuggish gang (which we had too large a hand in putting in place for my taste, and which we could have removed in 1991 were it not for those advocating that we (...) (23 years ago, 4-Oct-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: War
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(...) Incorrect. Suffering of children is never "justified". My argument merely demonstrates that their suffering is not the *fault* of the US, just as the suffering of FB Jr (while not "justified") in not having his wants satisfied is not the (...) (23 years ago, 4-Oct-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: War
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"Larry Pieniazek" <lpieniazek@mercator.com> wrote in message news:GKou8D.K9v@lugnet.com... (...) I don't think your argument stands one bit. You were trying to use this as justification as to why Iraqi children should suffer, because of the crimes (...) (23 years ago, 4-Oct-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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