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In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Lawrence Wilkes writes:
>
> "Larry Pieniazek" <lpieniazek@mercator.com> wrote in message news:GKou8D.K9v@lugnet.com...
> > In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Lawrence Wilkes writes:
> >
> > > Except no one is talking about x-box'es
> > > and no one expects the state to provide x-boxes on welfare.
> > > But had Fred Bloggs Jr been hungry because of the lack of income to buy
> > > food, he most certainly would have been cared for by the state.
> >
> > Not necessarily "would have" in all cases, and most assuredly not "should have".
> >
> > It is *not* the duty of the state to ensure that everyone is cared for. That
> > your state has chosen to do that (the will of the majority imposed on all
> > funds it) doesn't mean that it is correct. Merely defacto.
> >
> > Therefore my argument stands whether the example is using x-boxes or food.
> I don't think your argument stands one bit.
> You were trying to use this as justification as to why Iraqi children should > suffer, because of the crimes of their leader.
Incorrect. Suffering of children is never "justified". My argument merely
demonstrates that their suffering is not the *fault* of the US, just as the
suffering of FB Jr (while not "justified") in not having his wants satisfied
is not the *fault* of the incarcerating authority. Rather it is the *fault*
of his father. And the suffering of the Iraqi children (and the destruction
of the country) is the *fault* of Hussein more than it is the sanctions,
which are easily lifted if Hussein changes his ways or abdicates. There was
an excellent analysis of this posted by Dave!
> But your analogy was incorrect.
You have not shown this yet.
> We are supposed to live in a civilised society aren't we?
Supposedly, yes.
> Isn't it the 'civilised world' that is under attack.
No, the 'free' world...
> And the civilised society does differentiate between x-boxes and food.
Yes, a civilized society assigns them different values in the marketplace.
> And any family in the UK who's bread winner goes to jail most certainly would >get aid if they needed it, irrespective of their partners crime.
Which does not make the UK civilised, unless you accept the definition of
civilized as "society uses force to take from those that have to give to
those that need". That's not my definition. (plowed ground alert, though)
Rather, my definition of civilized is: "society is set up to allow people to
reap the fruits of their labors *and& the thorns of their mistakes, rather
than attempting to shield them from the consequences of their actions"
++Lar
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Message has 3 Replies:
 | | Re: War
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| (...) Such sweeping assumptions on causality. Tsk tsk. By pulling back the causal loop one step further to point the finger at FB Sr. instead of the government that imprisoned him is no better than to step back one step further and point the finger (...) (23 years ago, 4-Oct-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
| | | Re: War
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| (...) So to clarify, are you saying that FB jr should pay for FB sr's mistake? In that case, shouldn't you extend your definition to be something like "society is set up to allow people (and their families) to reap ..."? ROSCO (23 years ago, 5-Oct-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
| | | Re: War
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| (...) This is a joke coming from you, in the last weeks you have shown me that you don't understand (amongst other this): Freedom Liberty Freedom of Speech Freedom & liberty From (URL) > As for "first principles", I have become convinced that you (...) (23 years ago, 5-Oct-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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Message is in Reply To:
| | Re: War
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| "Larry Pieniazek" <lpieniazek@mercator.com> wrote in message news:GKou8D.K9v@lugnet.com... (...) I don't think your argument stands one bit. You were trying to use this as justification as to why Iraqi children should suffer, because of the crimes (...) (23 years ago, 4-Oct-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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