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In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Pedro Silva writes:
> In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Christopher L. Weeks writes:
> > In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Pedro Silva writes:
> > Well, the more they can do with it, the worse that will be done. But I'm
> > opposed to any required identification including our Social Security Number.
>
> That is something beyond my will to fight against.
Actually, me too. It is possible in the US to divorce oneself from their SSN,
and I have not done that. They make sure it's a gigantic hassle.
> Why wouldn't I want him to see who my parents are, or if I'm single or
> married? That is supposed to be of public knowledge - that is why people
> wear those gold rings, and have last names... :-P
I could come up with a number of reasons that a person might not want their
parentage or maritl status broadcast. And you might just say those reasons
don't apply to you. But what about others? I don't think this is just about
you. I don't care if anyone knows who my parents are either...at least not off
hand. But some people might and I don't see it as my right to prevent their
privacy.
> > Having the ability to gain such a tool to use as a defense isn't problematic
> > unless it is the only way to prove your identity, because then it is
> > essentially required.
>
> What other ways do you have to prove your identity AND that all citizens
> *must* have?
None. Must is bad. I can demonstrate my ID through people that know me,
dental records, mail, etc. depending on the situation.
> I remembered a funny use for it: when I rent skis it is required to leave
> the ID as a deposit. this way they can prosecute me if I steal the skis.
> Again, reasonable: if I don't behave, they can bill me. Fair enough.
I leave my debit card number with them.
> > > You fear the government will track your habits...
> > > so maybe the response is a less advanced ID card, or the law saying only an
> > > officer can ask you to display the card.
> >
> > Or maybe not having the infernal card at all? And why would I honor an
> > officer's request? What right does he have to know who I am?
>
> For instance, it is practical to find criminals on the run AND you can prove
> you are not one, by simply showing the card if you are confused by a less
> clever officer.
I might choose to do that. But I can just do that with my drivers license.
> And why would you honor an officer's request??? Why grant him authority in
> the first place? Better still, why have Police? Why not return to the good
> old days of the Far West? Or the law of the jungle?
Maybe the police in Portugal are all nice guys. Here in the US that is not the
case. It seems to me, that those who are required to interact with them on a
regular basis are more likely than the rest of us to be living under the "law
of the jungle." For my money, the concentration of law enforcement officers is
inversely proportional to the justice that takes place.
Which is not to say that they have no purpose or reason. I have been assisted
by police and I have been needlessly hassled by police. I have seen people
brutalized by police for "talking back." I have little respect for the
profession.
> If there is a Police force, legitimated by the society, it is VERY
> reasonable they can ask for proof of identity!
If they have probable cause to suspect me of commission of a crime, then I
agree.
> Or would you issue
> competences and not grant the means to exercise them?
> It is not as if the copper would be asking you to strip your clothes off...
> THAT would be unreasonable search! :-P
It has been known to happen. But I would say that under some circumstances,
and maybe just in general, the two powers (access to identification and access
to strip search) are only different marks on a spectrum. What is unreasonable
about the strip search?
Chris
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Message has 2 Replies:
 | | Re: Gotta love Oracle...
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| (...) Ok, please point some reasons to me. I may even write a memo to the ID bureau here (no kidding!) if they are irrefutable. (...) a) I can demonstrate my identity through a couple of friends WITH ID if I don't have mine. b) You keep *dental (...) (23 years ago, 6-Oct-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, lugnet.loc.pt)
| | | Re: Gotta love Oracle...
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| Hello Chris, (...) And you really feel more private then? They will even be able to know which types of products you buy. Theoretically. (...) Maybe it's different in the US, but here not everyone HAS a driver's license. I don't see much difference (...) (23 years ago, 8-Oct-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, lugnet.loc.pt)
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Message is in Reply To:
| | Re: Gotta love Oracle...
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| (...) That is something beyond my will to fight against. Here we have a whole bunch of cards, numbers, ID's, licenses (Hunters need some seven or so different papers)... None of them is *too* invasive to our privacy - I have not heard of anyone (...) (23 years ago, 6-Oct-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, lugnet.loc.pt)
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