Subject:
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Re: Gotta love Oracle...
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Newsgroups:
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lugnet.off-topic.debate
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Date:
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Sat, 6 Oct 2001 18:46:02 GMT
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Viewed:
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428 times
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In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Horst Lehner writes:
> Hello Chris,
>
> > As a rough first bat, do you have the right to keep and bear arms? All of
> > them?
>
> This is a rhetorical question, isn't it? Presumably you already know we do
> have that right, but only after we get a special permission.
It wasn't exactly rhetorical...I don't know for sure what's legal in all the
European nations. But, if it requires "special permission" then it's a
priviledge, not a right.
> But then, I
> could ask, are you allowed to drive? And your answer would be about the
> same: Yes, but not before you obtain a license.
Absolutely. The citizens of the US do not have a right to drive. But we do
have a right to bear arms. All of them. Without "special permission."
> Is this less freedom, in any
> of these two cases? I don't think so, because both, arms and cars, have the
> potential to injure or even kill other people when used improperly.
In the US, we have the right to bear arms. And the priviledge to drive is
cheaper and easier than in much of Europe (as I understand it). So I would say
that looking at only these two issues, we do enjoy more freedom.
> So, it
> makes sense to limit their use to people who have shown to be worth at least
> some confidence in the respective area.
Disagree. We should limit the use of goods only to those who have demonstrated
that they will act criminally with them.
> Statistics prove pretty clearly that there is a fundamental right that gets
> violated in the US far more often than in any other western democracy: the
> right to live, and not be murdered.
I didn't find homocide rates, but you are much more likely to be the victim of
a violent crime if you call England your home than the US. I haven't looked up
Germany or Portugal.
> I am not talking the death penalty here,
> but could it be that there is some correlation between this fact and some of
> your other beloved rights?
Yes. It has been clearly and convincingly demonstrated that as firearms
increase in commonality, violent crime decreases.
> And isn't it true that conflicting rights must
> always be carefully balanced?
I don't think there is any such thing as conflicting rights.
> I feel the balance we in Germany have fits my taste somewhat better than
> what you in the US have. Even though I could probably live with both ...
Great! I'm glad that you're happy with your system. I'd never dream of trying
to get you to change things about your country that aren't evil.
Chris
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Message has 3 Replies:
 | | Re: Gotta love Oracle...
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| (...) What if the permit is almost granted to be issued, unless one is declared "unfit"? (by a number of reasons, including possibly being a lunatic or a terrorist) (...) And then you get really shocked about stuff like Columbine, Waco, or that (...) (23 years ago, 7-Oct-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
| | | Re: Gotta love Oracle...
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| Hello Chris, (...) I understand that this is the current situation. But why would you want to maintain it exactly this way? What makes driving different from bearing arms? Why is it acceptable to require permission for one but not the other? (...) (...) (23 years ago, 8-Oct-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
| | | Re: Gotta love Oracle...
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| (...) Actually, we do have the right to travel by modern conveyance -- a right recognized under common law since the time of Magna Carta. Applying this argument to the a.k.a. "driving privilege" is not too complicated -- getting the courts to (...) (23 years ago, 8-Oct-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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Message is in Reply To:
| | Re: Gotta love Oracle...
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| Hello Chris, (...) This is a rhetorical question, isn't it? Presumably you already know we do have that right, but only after we get a special permission. But then, I could ask, are you allowed to drive? And your answer would be about the same: Yes, (...) (23 years ago, 6-Oct-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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