Subject:
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Re: Gotta love Oracle...
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Newsgroups:
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lugnet.off-topic.debate
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Date:
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Sun, 7 Oct 2001 22:30:18 GMT
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Viewed:
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438 times
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In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Christopher L. Weeks writes:
> In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Horst Lehner writes:
> > Hello Chris,
> >
> > > As a rough first bat, do you have the right to keep and bear arms? All of
> > > them?
> >
> > This is a rhetorical question, isn't it? Presumably you already know we do
> > have that right, but only after we get a special permission.
>
> It wasn't exactly rhetorical...I don't know for sure what's legal in all the
> European nations. But, if it requires "special permission" then it's a
> priviledge, not a right.
What if the permit is almost granted to be issued, unless one is declared
"unfit"? (by a number of reasons, including possibly being a lunatic or a
terrorist)
> > But then, I
> > could ask, are you allowed to drive? And your answer would be about the
> > same: Yes, but not before you obtain a license.
>
> Absolutely. The citizens of the US do not have a right to drive. But we do
> have a right to bear arms. All of them. Without "special permission."
And then you get really shocked about stuff like Columbine, Waco, or that
recent San Diego massacre...
> > Is this less freedom, in any
> > of these two cases? I don't think so, because both, arms and cars, have the
> > potential to injure or even kill other people when used improperly.
>
> In the US, we have the right to bear arms. And the priviledge to drive is
> cheaper and easier than in much of Europe (as I understand it). So I would say
> that looking at only these two issues, we do enjoy more freedom.
In Europe, we have small, human scaled cities - thus the car is less needed.
We walk, and we don't become fat. Then we don't need plastic surgeries to
look nice on topless beaches.
And thank god gas is expensive! I'd rather see more people using mass
transit, so that I could breathe better, and not have these pesky asthma
problems!...
> > So, it
> > makes sense to limit their use to people who have shown to be worth at least
> > some confidence in the respective area.
>
> Disagree. We should limit the use of goods only to those who have demonstrated
> that they will act criminally with them.
And exactly how do you demonstrate one will comit a crime BEFORE one
actually comits it?
> > Statistics prove pretty clearly that there is a fundamental right that gets
> > violated in the US far more often than in any other western democracy: the
> > right to live, and not be murdered.
>
> I didn't find homocide rates, but you are much more likely to be the victim of
> a violent crime if you call England your home than the US. I haven't looked up
> Germany or Portugal.
England is funny. It is also cramped with people, and lots of rain. It is
pretty depressing as a nation, to my view (and to all those Brits who flock
due South in the Summer)...
As for Portugal, there are five reasons to get killed for: Land, Water,
Women, Drugs, and insane hatred. The latter has usually little expression
(10 cases/year).
> > I am not talking the death penalty here,
> > but could it be that there is some correlation between this fact and some of
> > your other beloved rights?
>
> Yes. It has been clearly and convincingly demonstrated that as firearms
> increase in commonality, violent crime decreases.
See Colombia and South Africa to refute that claim.
> > And isn't it true that conflicting rights must
> > always be carefully balanced?
>
> I don't think there is any such thing as conflicting rights.
The right to work, and the right to rest. Both are rights, and conflict.
> > I feel the balance we in Germany have fits my taste somewhat better than
> > what you in the US have. Even though I could probably live with both ...
>
> Great! I'm glad that you're happy with your system. I'd never dream of trying
> to get you to change things about your country that aren't evil.
Neither would any of us.
Pedro
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Message has 1 Reply:
 | | Re: Gotta love Oracle...
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| (...) What if? (...) No I don't. And those have to do (I believe) with children who are institutionally abused, more than with firearms. The firearm was a only tool...a means of expression. (...) say (...) Why is it that Europeans often start in (...) (23 years ago, 8-Oct-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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Message is in Reply To:
| | Re: Gotta love Oracle...
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| (...) It wasn't exactly rhetorical...I don't know for sure what's legal in all the European nations. But, if it requires "special permission" then it's a priviledge, not a right. (...) Absolutely. The citizens of the US do not have a right to drive. (...) (23 years ago, 6-Oct-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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