 | | Some bugs with LDGLite
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I just started playing with LDGLIte and I noticed a few things. 1. Selecting parts (page up and page down) in LEdit mode doesn't work right if my display is set to a resolution higher than 750x550. 2. After continuing to work with a model for a (...) (22 years ago, 5-Jun-02, to lugnet.cad.dev.mac)
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| | Re: Some bugs with LDGLite
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(...) Do you have access to a console window? Ldglite prints some info out to the console that might be helpful here. For example, what does it print out about the opengl version and extensions? How many color, depth, and stencil bits does it say (...) (22 years ago, 5-Jun-02, to lugnet.cad.dev.mac)
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| | Re: Some bugs with LDGLite
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Chris, I noticed that you have to click on the title bar of the window before it will accept any keys. I dont know why. Try this and see if it still happens. James (22 years ago, 5-Jun-02, to lugnet.cad.dev.mac)
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| | Re: Some bugs with LDGLite
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(...) James, I discovered that very quickly. If you don't click the title bar, the keystrokes get dumped to the terminal window, and they don't do any good there. Are you working on a help page? A help page is definately needed. I think the majority (...) (22 years ago, 6-Jun-02, to lugnet.cad.dev.mac)
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| | Re: Some bugs with LDGLite
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Hi Don, (...) This is what get printed into the Terminal when I launch ldglite (using the rename as ldgledit trick). I always use the editing mode because LDGLite just keeps cycling through the steps of drawing the model over and over again if I let (...) (22 years ago, 6-Jun-02, to lugnet.cad.dev.mac)
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| | Re: Some bugs with LDGLite
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(...) snip (...) Follow up. This seem to be related to my activating a feature that I didn't know about (or understand yet). When I press the "r" key on the keyboard without activating the menu by pressing the "/" key strange things happen with the (...) (22 years ago, 6-Jun-02, to lugnet.cad.dev.mac)
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| | Re: Some bugs with LDGLite
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(...) What about the ldglite launcher? I think that has a help screen. (URL) it a spin and see if it's missing anything. Don (22 years ago, 6-Jun-02, to lugnet.cad.dev.mac)
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| | Re: Some bugs with LDGLite
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(...) Oh no, that's a real bug, and not just on the Mac. Thanks for finding it. The 'r' key switches between the l3 and the ldlite parsers. I could swear I disabled that key for LEDIT mode because editing requires the data structures provided by the (...) (22 years ago, 6-Jun-02, to lugnet.cad.dev.mac)
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| | Could someone run a perspective mode test on ldglite?
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While following up on the latest round of bug reports I noticed this page. (URL) pics, but while viewing them I realized that all of the perspective (non-orthographic) views displayed a lot of z-fighting (underlying surfaces and lines bleeding (...) (22 years ago, 6-Jun-02, to lugnet.cad.dev.mac)
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| | Re: Could someone run a perspective mode test on ldglite?
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(...) This isn't a direct answer to your question, but one thing I noticed in LDView is that setting the polygon offset too high will result in some of the observed problems. In particular, the problem on inverse slope bricks of the pillar showing (...) (22 years ago, 6-Jun-02, to lugnet.cad.dev.mac)
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| | Re: Some bugs with LDGLite
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(...) LdGLite Launcher is my contribution for a help page for Mac OS X. It just so happens that my work required me to write a very similar application so it was really easy for me to throw this together. The app is AppleScript Studio (AppleScript (...) (22 years ago, 6-Jun-02, to lugnet.cad.dev.mac)
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| | Re: Could someone run a perspective mode test on ldglite?
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(...) GL_VERSION = 1.1 ATI-1.1 GL_EXTENSIONS = GL_APPLE_specular_vector GL_APPLE_transform_hint GL_APPLE_packed_pixel GL_APPLE_client_storage GL_APPLE_client_address_range GL_ARB_transpose_matrix GL_EXT_clip_volume_hint GL_EXT_rescale_normal (...) (22 years ago, 6-Jun-02, to lugnet.cad.dev.mac)
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| | Re: Could someone run a perspective mode test on ldglite?
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(...) Yes, I've also seen an occasional small amount of bleeding on on the slope bricks which can probably be attributed to my maxing out the polygon offset setting. But this goes way beyond that. Edge lines from way back in the depth buffer are (...) (22 years ago, 6-Jun-02, to lugnet.cad.dev.mac)
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| | Re: Could someone run a perspective mode test on ldglite?
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(...) Hmmm, not much bleeding there. What do you get when you run with just the -J switch? Is it more like this? (URL) of nasty edge line bleeding there! Don (22 years ago, 6-Jun-02, to lugnet.cad.dev.mac)
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| | Re: Could someone run a perspective mode test on ldglite?
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(...) ./ldglite -J b2.mpd produces: (URL) it suppose to do that? James (22 years ago, 6-Jun-02, to lugnet.cad.dev.mac)
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| | Re: Could someone run a perspective mode test on ldglite?
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(...) No it's not. But I'm glad the -z100 -Z2000 settings for the clipping planes fix it. Those are the clip plane settings I used to fix it for the 16Bit depth buffer on Mesa, so I guess I'll use them if the GL_VENDOR or GL_VERSION strings contain (...) (22 years ago, 6-Jun-02, to lugnet.cad.dev.mac)
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| | Re: Could someone run a perspective mode test on ldglite?
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(...) Actually, it turns out that I just use -z100 to fix 16bit Mesa. So how does -J -z100 look on the Mac? Don (22 years ago, 6-Jun-02, to lugnet.cad.dev.mac)
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| | Re: Could someone run a perspective mode test on ldglite?
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(...) I'm not much of a video card buff, but doesn't ATI have video cards better than the Rage 128? Maybe you could use those settings if the GL_VERSION contains "ATI" && GL_DEPTH_BITS is 24. Just an idea. If you wanted to limit to Macs, you could (...) (22 years ago, 6-Jun-02, to lugnet.cad.dev.mac)
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| | Re: Some bugs with LDGLite
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(...) Thanks for the pointer. I gave it a quick try, and when I select the x,y option for resolutions, I can't enter the numbers, and LDGLite just starts in 320x200 mode. Chris (22 years ago, 6-Jun-02, to lugnet.cad.dev.mac)
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| | Re: Could someone run a perspective mode test on ldglite?
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(...) Yeah, but I hear their drivers still suck. Until I hear otherwise, I'm gonna do it for *any* ATI driver. (...) Don't some of the newer Macs come with Nvidia cards these days? I'm sure they come with a whole different set of problems. Actually (...) (22 years ago, 6-Jun-02, to lugnet.cad.dev.mac)
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| | Re: Could someone run a perspective mode test on ldglite?
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(...) Hmm, as a matter of fact, I have had trouble with some users I that I do *help desk* for. They just released a new driver for their retail cards and that fixed the issues I have been having with them. (...) Hmm. Yup, they come with Nvidia's (...) (22 years ago, 6-Jun-02, to lugnet.cad.dev.mac)
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| | Re: Could someone run a perspective mode test on ldglite?
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(...) True, but lucky for you, I was following this thread, and my work machine (Windows 2000) has a Rage 128 Pro. I get the same effect with the -J option. The -z100 -Z2000 fixes it. One really strange thing, though. As far as I can tell, LDView (...) (22 years ago, 6-Jun-02, to lugnet.cad.dev.mac)
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| | Re: Could someone run a perspective mode test on ldglite?
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(...) I knew it! The opengl driver for my older Rage Pro is terrible. I think they just tested it for quake, which probably doesn't use lines at all. (...) I'm not sure what that NULL means. Does it mean there's no fn, or that it falls back to a (...) (22 years ago, 7-Jun-02, to lugnet.cad.dev.mac)
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| | Re: Some bugs with LDGLite
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(...) Hehehe. I know. I never did implement it. I think I tried to disable it (so that I didn't have to delete it from the layout), but I couldn't figure out how. OK, so I didn't put that much time into it. That is why the version is pre 1.0. :-P (...) (22 years ago, 7-Jun-02, to lugnet.cad.dev.mac)
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| | Re: Some bugs with LDGLite
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(...) That's most likely a problem with the version of GLUT available for Mac OS X. It's known to have bugs like that. There's an improved version of GLUT available, that I might try to use for the next release, but I don't know how difficult it is (...) (22 years ago, 7-Jun-02, to lugnet.cad.dev.mac)
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| | Re: Could someone run a perspective mode test on ldglite?
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(...) Hmm. I was under the (mistaken) impression that glPolygonOffset was introduced in OpenGL 1.2. A NULL return from wglGetProcAddress means that the extension function requested doesn't exist. Apparently the ATI driver returns NULL for core (...) (22 years ago, 7-Jun-02, to lugnet.cad.dev.mac)
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| | Re: Some bugs with LDGLite
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(...) Just to be clear, the two step jump has nothing to do with LDGLite Launcher. Well, the problem with the full screen modes for me is that the parts remain highlighted. I can't go any bigger than about 750x550 if I want the selected part (...) (22 years ago, 7-Jun-02, to lugnet.cad.dev.mac)
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| | Re: Some bugs with LDGLite
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(...) OK, this on made me laugh (the odd things that happened)j. First I didn't know that the enter key and space bar did anything, but they don't work quite right either. The spacebar causes LDGLite to draw two steps. The enter key causes LDGLite (...) (22 years ago, 7-Jun-02, to lugnet.cad.dev.mac)
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| | Re: Could someone run a perspective mode test on ldglite?
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(...) Hello, all! My name is Jim and it just so happens that the web site you've been discussing in regards to the rendering problems is mine. I'm new to LUGNET, so imagine my surprise when I first start reading its Mac section and see people (...) (22 years ago, 9-Jun-02, to lugnet.cad.dev.mac)
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| | Re: Could someone run a perspective mode test on ldglite?
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(...) Hi Jim, the internet is a bit smaller than you thought, eh? Imagine my surprise to find a website full of pictures from someone (besides myself) who actually uses ldglite? (...) I must've missed that elsewhere part of the thread. Oh well, I'll (...) (22 years ago, 10-Jun-02, to lugnet.cad.dev.mac, lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | Re: Some bugs with LDGLite
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(...) I'm pretty sure that's a bug with the OS X version of GLUT. I bet it gives 2 events for each key or button press. Probably a key up and a key down event. I'll have to filter out the extra ones. (...) Hmmm, a quick calculation says 1024x768 (...) (22 years ago, 10-Jun-02, to lugnet.cad.dev.mac)
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| | Re: Could someone run a perspective mode test on ldglite?
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(...) Here is the post where the mouse issue was originally pointed out: (URL) (at the bottom of the post). It doesn't matter what mode the program is in (perspective or orthographic), mouse rotation is still off somewhat. Basically the problem is (...) (22 years ago, 10-Jun-02, to lugnet.cad.dev.mac)
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| | mouse model manipulation
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More about mouse spinning - as Chris mentioned in the post I noted before, when rotating the model with the mouse it often doesn't seem to rotate appropriately for the direction of mouse movement -- the model will rotate about a given axis as if it (...) (22 years ago, 10-Jun-02, to lugnet.cad.dev.mac)
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| | Re: mouse model manipulation
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(...) Maybe we can get to the bottom of this one. Try the debugging command line switch -g and see what it prints out when you do a mouse spin. It should spew all sorts of stuff to the console window. Look for pdn(x,y) and pan(x,y) to see if there's (...) (22 years ago, 10-Jun-02, to lugnet.cad.dev.mac)
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| | Re: Could someone run a perspective mode test on ldglite?
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(...) Hmmm, well, I don't believe I've ever received a single comment on the "camera" moving keys before. Plus I've never been quite happy with the way they affect the opengl view matrix (but not the ldraw matrix). So I suppose I could just redefine (...) (22 years ago, 10-Jun-02, to lugnet.cad.dev.mac)
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| | Re: Could someone run a perspective mode test on ldglite?
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(...) That sounds good to me. If anyone else has any preferences on this issue (keyboard camera controls) I hope they speak up, I wouldn't want to push for something that was contrary to someone else's needs. But otherwise, sounds like a good (...) (22 years ago, 10-Jun-02, to lugnet.cad.dev.mac)
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| | Re: mouse model manipulation
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(...) Well, I looked at the pdn and pan values, but they never seemed to get crazy or anything (although I'm not familiar with the inner workings of OpenGL so I'm not entirely sure what constitutes fishy). Their values stay relatively close (...) (22 years ago, 11-Jun-02, to lugnet.cad.dev.mac)
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| | Re: mouse model manipulation
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(...) Do you mean cursor doesn't disappear when you drag the mouse with the button pressed? It's supposed to. That way you can't see it warp back to the center of the window when it strays too far. Or does the cursor reappear when you leave the (...) (22 years ago, 11-Jun-02, to lugnet.cad.dev.mac)
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| | Re: Some bugs with LDGLite
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(...) Did you get my last post about how all of the keys that do anything also casue LDGLite to step the model? From now on, should I say LDGLEdit for edit mode? Should I say LDGLDraw (a bit redundant) or LDGLIte for the viewing mode? (...) For (...) (22 years ago, 11-Jun-02, to lugnet.cad.dev.mac)
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| | Re: mouse model manipulation
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(...) snip (...) Sorry Jim, I have to disagree. Mouse rotation is not usable on my PowerBook. The model almost always rotates in one direction whether the I start LDGLedit or LDGLite with the j or J option. But for building, I have found that the (...) (22 years ago, 11-Jun-02, to lugnet.cad.dev.mac)
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| | Re: mouse model manipulation
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(...) Just clicking on the model in preparation for mouse rotation (LDGLite mode) gives pdn(314, 219), -> (-6.00, 21.00, -4000.00) platform_step(-1, 2, 0) platform_step(-1, 2, 0) platform_step(-1, 2, 0) platform_step(-1, 2, 0) platform_step(0, 1, 1) (...) (22 years ago, 11-Jun-02, to lugnet.cad.dev.mac)
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| | Re: mouse model manipulation
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(...) [snip] (...) Ah ha, that comment comes from the ldlite parser. Try the l3 parser by renaming the executable to l3glite or by passing -l3 on the command line. It's much faster for interactive stuff. However, LEDIT mode should already be using (...) (22 years ago, 11-Jun-02, to lugnet.cad.dev.mac)
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| | Re: mouse model manipulation
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(...) The cursor does not disappear when the you drag the mouse with button pressed. However, neither does it "warp" back to the center of the window when it leaves the window - the cursor just moves as expected. (Although since I don't know OpenGL (...) (22 years ago, 11-Jun-02, to lugnet.cad.dev.mac)
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| | Re: mouse model manipulation
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(...) I like the idea of absolute based on the zoom. So, at 100% zoom, 100 pixels will rotate it x degrees. At 50% zoom, 100 pixels will rotate it by x/2 degrees. Just my idea. I don't know if it would actually be nicer or not. James (22 years ago, 11-Jun-02, to lugnet.cad.dev.mac)
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| | Re: mouse model manipulation
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(...) What am I saying. At 50% zoom, 100 pixels will rotate it by x*2 degrees. So basically, the same "perspective" drag distance will rotate it the same. Don't know if this is a good idea or not. James (22 years ago, 11-Jun-02, to lugnet.cad.dev.mac)
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| | Re: mouse model manipulation
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(...) Wow, the l3 parser is much faster even when comments are being written to the console, but the behavior is the same. The model is rotating on the Lego rotisserie always in the same direction. Here is the output pdn(324, 175), -> (4.00, 65.00, (...) (22 years ago, 12-Jun-02, to lugnet.cad.dev.mac)
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| | Re: mouse model manipulation
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(...) Ok based on this and the observation that the first tiny rotation seems to be in the right direction I'm almost positive it's because the glutWarpPointer function doesn't work. I don't start warping the pointer until you've moved 10 pixels. (...) (22 years ago, 12-Jun-02, to lugnet.cad.dev.mac)
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| | Re: mouse model manipulation
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(...) What the heck, since it's a one liner I hopped onto the sourceforge compile farm and did it myself. For good luck I also added the 3 line ATI perspective mode fix. Grab the new executable at: (URL) it works, I'll update the web page to serve (...) (22 years ago, 12-Jun-02, to lugnet.cad.dev.mac)
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| | Re: mouse model manipulation
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The update rotates much more predictably. Here are some movies of the 2 different version. In the old version, a slight mouse movement flips the model quite a bit. In the new version, the model doesn't move so much. Both of them show the pointer. I (...) (22 years ago, 13-Jun-02, to lugnet.cad.dev.mac)
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| | Re: mouse model manipulation
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(...) It works great! Mouse rotation works as it ought to now. Definitely a big improvement. I'm glad you were able to deduce what the source of the problem was from all the symptoms we were reporting. Thanks, Jim (22 years ago, 13-Jun-02, to lugnet.cad.dev.mac)
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| | Re: mouse model manipulation
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(...) Works great. By the way, is there a way to zoom in on a specific portion of a model? Thanks again! Chris (22 years ago, 13-Jun-02, to lugnet.cad.dev.mac)
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| | Re: mouse model manipulation
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(...) Not really, but the technique used in LEDIT is to center the view on a part and then zoom, if I remember the tutorial correctly. I might consider adding a key to switch the left mouse button to drag out a zoom rectangle. Someday. Don (22 years ago, 13-Jun-02, to lugnet.cad.dev.mac)
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| | Re: mouse model manipulation
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(...) That's funny, both movies look awful on my computer. I suspect it's because they run at too high a resolution for the old piece of junk. Don (22 years ago, 13-Jun-02, to lugnet.cad.dev.mac)
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| | Re: mouse model manipulation
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(...) Dang! I suppose that means nobody's gonna be all that motivated to investigate the updated version of GLUT for me. Wait, wasn't there a whole list of other bugs with the keyboard and the mouse? I'm sure this'll fix them. Go ahead, give it a (...) (22 years ago, 13-Jun-02, to lugnet.cad.dev.mac)
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| | Re: mouse model manipulation
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(...) And earlier, he wrote: (...) no modifications needed) and substituted it for the old GLUT.framework... unfortunately, when I ran ldglite (0.9.5, not 0.9.5c) mouse rotation did not work at all in ledit l3 mode, which is the mode I started up (...) (22 years ago, 13-Jun-02, to lugnet.cad.dev.mac)
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| | GLUT 4 for Mac OS X
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(...) I just tried it again, and must retract what I said about it before. I'm not sure why it didn't work before, but it does now. Additionally, the cursor disappears during mouse rotation, as it is supposed to. If there is anything else you'd like (...) (22 years ago, 13-Jun-02, to lugnet.cad.dev.mac)
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| | Re: GLUT 4 for Mac OS X
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(...) Am I correct in assuming that the contents of this menu are universal for all platforms? In any case I think there a few minor tweaks that could be done to it that would help it seem even more "Mac like", but I think they' d be helpful on all (...) (22 years ago, 13-Jun-02, to lugnet.cad.dev.mac)
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| | Re: GLUT 4 for Mac OS X
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(...) Cool, now I'm faced with the dilemma of which version to distribute for OS X. I guess it's better to assume the user hasn't replaced the default GLUT library. (...) Somewhere in this thread there was a whole list of bugs with the keyboard and (...) (22 years ago, 13-Jun-02, to lugnet.cad.dev.mac)
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| | Re: GLUT 4 for Mac OS X
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(...) I would distribute the 0.9.5c one, it works better than 0.9.5 even without the new GLUT. (Although yes I would agree not assume the user has replaced the default GLUT library.) (...) It was the Control key that didn't work in the old GLUT--nor (...) (22 years ago, 13-Jun-02, to lugnet.cad.dev.mac)
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| | Re: mouse model manipulation
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(...) I captured these with Snapz Pro. Durring the capture, it took snapshots in the middle of redraws, so that explains one reason why it doesn't look all that great. Snapz also slows everything down (I suppose constantly storing a section of the (...) (22 years ago, 13-Jun-02, to lugnet.cad.dev.mac)
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| | Re: GLUT 4 for Mac OS X
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(...) Can you make the executable available? I can test it on my mac and see if the new glut libraries are included (I don't think they will be, but you never know, and one can hope). Does anyone know what prebinding does? Would that help? It is (...) (22 years ago, 13-Jun-02, to lugnet.cad.dev.mac)
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| | Re: GLUT 4 for Mac OS X
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(...) What do you mean, an executable for the new GLUT, or for ldglite? (There is no executable for the new GLUT, its just a set of files in a folder that go in /System/Library/Frameworks.) Jim (22 years ago, 13-Jun-02, to lugnet.cad.dev.mac)
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| | Re: GLUT 4 for Mac OS X
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(...) ldglite executable. James (22 years ago, 13-Jun-02, to lugnet.cad.dev.mac)
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| | Re: GLUT 4 for Mac OS X
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(...) I think I just found a bug in one of the current pop-menu commands, under Options - when you select "Visible Spin" it acts as if you pressed lowercase 'v' and displays the 'vector (x,y,z):" prompt. I think its supposed to act like you pressed (...) (22 years ago, 13-Jun-02, to lugnet.cad.dev.mac)
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| | Mac MPD Utility source code released
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Hi! I have released the Project Builder project files and source code for my Mac MPD Utility ((URL) There are no restrictions on the code, but no guarantees or external documentation, either. Note that there isn't very much lego or ldraw specific (...) (22 years ago, 14-Jun-02, to lugnet.cad.dev.mac)
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| | Re: mouse model manipulation
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(...) I just use the magnitude of the mouse movement, and feed it in as the first argument to a glRotate call. I use the delta X and delta Y as the second and third arguments, and 0 as the final argument. Remember that the magnitude of the vector (...) (22 years ago, 15-Jun-02, to lugnet.cad.dev.mac)
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