Subject:
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Re: Fixing the world (was Re: Ldraw cannon
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Newsgroups:
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lugnet.off-topic.debate
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Date:
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Wed, 9 Dec 1998 18:34:21 GMT
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Viewed:
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1957 times
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Larry produced a deliberately inflammatory reply to my original inflammatory
post:
> As for pittance wages, remove the 80% (or more, 99% in Sweden, for
> instance) drag of the current govts on the economy and you will see an
> unending boom so large that all that want to work will be able to live
> handsomely. As for those that don't, bleeding hearts can voluntarily
> contribute, and if not, think of it as evolution in action.
> In a booming economy (remember that premise, we won't HAVE any non
> booming economies in Libertopia) any employer foolish enough to pay less
> than what a job is worth will soon find herself without workers, and out
> of business.
Hate to say this Larry, but over here we have a lot less government than
you have, and it hasn't helped. What it does mean is that we're much more
vulnerable to games played by other countries. Mostly the USA with its
threats of trade barriers- and subsidies. So while our tax take is around
half yours and our economy is much less regulated, the "benefits" are
mostly obscured by the fact that not everyone plays by our rules.
Just how far do we have to go along this route? Zero tax? Government
destruction of anything that looks like a natural monopoly? (or should
they own the monopolies? Or are monopolies good? I can't work that out.
What is your position on stuff like power lines?)
> Stripping only pays more if the long term costs (leaching, adjacent
> property value reduction, etc) are ignored.
Too right. The problem there is that of who you sue. Who should
generation three from Minimata sue? Generation three of the companies
who did the polluting? There will surely be other examples in
the future of things that are unpredictably expensive down the track.
I thought one of the big advances in capitalism was the limited
liability company? It allows higher risk businesses by limiting
the loss to what shareholders have invested in the company, thus
facilitating both mass sharemarkets and small shareholding.
I mean, if my share in Microsoft meant that I was also liable when
it turns out that MS liabilty in a occupational overuse suit is 10x
assets, then I'd be a little reluctant to buy any shares at all.
And if that debt was non-avoidable, then I'd be risking not just
myself, but my children and family.
> Abolish the EPA and use tort and (especially) criminal law to go after
> polluters and you'd see a quick reduction in new strip mine projects (as
> well as other polluting projects) .
How do you prove specific legal liability in a contributory problem?
Who do I sue if my farm is wiped out by a drought which was probably
prolonged and deepened by global warming, but should have been
survivable otherwise? I could sue the USA for emitting greenhouse
gases, on the grounds that it has not legislated appropriately.
> The first time a company prez went to jail for murder, or at least
> negligent homicide, because her subordinates built a plant that emitted
> too many pollutants, and knew it, might be a bit surprising, but you'd
> see some changes fast.
And when the shareholders were held liable, yea even unto the seventh
generation, I think we'd see your predicate boom change course a little.
I've got one other point:
Big problem for libertarians IMO is that NZ used to spend about 8% GDP
on a state health system that served 99% of the population to about
the same level as the second quintile in the USA. Which was spending
12-15% GDP on health, and reaching about 70% pop with that. So NZ
is moving to the US model, because those making the decisions are
in the upper quintile. But from a libertarian perspective I suspect
that state-owned health care is anathema regardless.
Moz
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Message is in Reply To:
 | | Fixing the world (was Re: Ldraw cannon
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| <F3KMny.FDD@lugnet.com> <F3Lxqn.GrG@lugnet.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit "Moz (Chris Moseley)" wrote: Deliberately inflammatory reply by me follows.. (...) That's claptrap. Normal people are (...) (25 years ago, 7-Dec-98, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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