Subject:
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Re: Fixing the world (was Re: Ldraw cannon
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Newsgroups:
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lugnet.off-topic.debate
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Date:
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Mon, 7 Dec 1998 22:13:04 GMT
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Viewed:
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1857 times
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Larry Pieniazek wrote in message <366C4892.B09B99C3@ctp.IWANTNOSPAM.com>...
>
> Certainly conquerors and war happen, and certainly there is murder,
> theft, abuse, and hate, but don't tell ME that you believe that people
> are inherently evil... I thought better of you. Once again slowly: Most
> people are good. They have a sense of right and wrong. The rest (and how
> many murderers do you know in your circle of friends, really...) are
> deviant. People without a sense of right and wrong are not fully human.
I do think that people have a sense of right and wrong, and that when they
do wrong they usually know it. But if people are good, then they should
choose to do good. We have plenty of laws and religion to tell us what is
good and what is bad. But people choose to do wrong things. Even the worst
criminals have a sense of right and wrong (usually), and know they're doing
wrong. I'm not suggesting we don't know what we do. I'm suggesting we know
exactly what we're doing, and that makes us selfish and evil by nature.
Having a sense of right and wrong doesn't make you good. Having a sense of
right and wrong, having the freedom to choose right or wrong, and naturally
tending toward right without societal training makes you "good." This does
not happen. We tend towards evil and selfishness.
> To a certain extent that sense of right and wrong is nurture, not
> nature, but if you have a society that is TOO far off respecting
> property, people will sense that something is wrong, because they
> understand cause and effect. Set up society so that rights are protected
> and that self interest and the good of society intersect (that is,
> capitalism and the rule of law, with a properly functioning marketplace
> to communicate information about efficiency) and most people will do the
> right thing. The ones that do not are acting in a counter survival
> manner and need to be culled. That is the proper function of the rule of
> law.
Actually, considering the socializing aspects of school, church, and family,
and that it takes 18 years of socialization before we declare someone fully
responsible for himself, I'd say a lot of nurture is going on. In fact, I'd
say that a child is born an animal, with no higher thought and a world view
that centers around him. As a child ages, it only gets worse, because he
begins to realize that others have feelings, and still chooses to be selfish
and mean and hurt others. This is not "good." Most of the guilt that comes
from mistreating others is a result of the socialization process that tells
us that we should be sorry for what we've done. Even then it isn't enough
to stop us from choosing to be mean sometimes.
Survival means taking what you need and leaving others behind. Dog eat dog.
Pretend to support the Golden Rule, but break it if you're not going to get
caught. Just ask how many kids cheat on tests in high school, or how many
people fudge taxes, or how many people lie to their spouses about their
"extracurricular" activity. Survival means cut everyone down who gets in
your way. This does not sound like good to me.
I realize that we have yet to agree on some basic definitions here, which
limits the discussion, but most arguments come from disagreements over
definitions more than anything else, so no surprise there.
Jesse
__________________________________________________________________
Jesse The Jolly Jingoist
Looking for answers?
Read the rec.toys.lego FAQ! http://www.multicon.de/fun/legofaq.html
Power-search in Deja News! http://www.dejanews.com/home_ps.shtml
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Message has 1 Reply:
 | | Re: Fixing the world (was Re: Ldraw cannon
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| (...) Finally, someone else that agrees with me that kids suck. Just say no to procreation. Raise cats, they're less expensive. If you want to cuddle miniature people, befriend a midget or visit your nieces and nephews, I say. This said, of course, (...) (25 years ago, 7-Dec-98, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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Message is in Reply To:
| | Re: Fixing the world (was Re: Ldraw cannon
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| <366C20C0.1D3A29CA@c...OSPAM.com> <F3M105.K52@lugnet.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit (...) Certainly conquerors and war happen, and certainly there is murder, theft, abuse, and hate, but don't tell ME (...) (25 years ago, 7-Dec-98, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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