 | | Re: Libertarian theory and altruism (was: some incorrectly spelled thing not worth repeating
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(...) War is actually quite a good driver of economy. The Germans weren't doing all that bad financially. They robbed a hell of a lot of people to do it, though. "when they came for the homosexuals, I did not say anything, because I was not a (...) (25 years ago, 8-Jan-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Libitarian guff (Was: Re: Art Debate Was: [Re: Swearing?])
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Richard Franks wrote in message ... (...) library, (...) were (...) set (...) that (...) not (...) I don't think so. My feeling is that the reason we have so much crime is that there are so many people who have little or nothing to lose, so the (...) (25 years ago, 8-Jan-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Libertarian stuff (Was: Re: Art Debate Was: [Re: Swearing?])
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(...) Yes, we saw this in the 19th century coal-mine towns a lot. Isn't it more in corporations' interest to teach people that they have no rights, that they should submit to the will of The Company? (...) People may be inherently good, but there's (...) (25 years ago, 8-Jan-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Libertarian theory and altruism
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I agree, let's put a pin in it for now. Let's start a new thread for that one. Until Todd fixes cnews, if we post in the thread where you discussed my life affirming post and agreed that initiating force is unacceptable, but didn't see the link to (...) (25 years ago, 8-Jan-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Libertarian stuff (Was: Re: Art Debate Was: [Re: Swearing?])
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(...) You mean there's a next stage? I started out with thinking it sounded better and better, than it slid into the phase you're describing. Jasper (25 years ago, 8-Jan-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Libertarian theory and altruism (was: some incorrectly spelled thing not worth repeating
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(...) Sometimes/usually. Not always. IOW: I can try. (...) Maybe, but would it be for the better? Or would the increased uncertainty in there being no government mean even more short-term thinking? (...) That would be a good thing. OTOH, in the (...) (25 years ago, 8-Jan-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Libertarian theory and altruism (was: some incorrectly spelled thing not worth repeating
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(...) You got me there, it DOES deliver on the predictability aspect (as long as the reich actually lasts 1000 years, and as long as the supreme leader isn't very whim driven). How does it do on the rest of the list? Rather more poorly, I'd venture. (25 years ago, 8-Jan-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Libertarian stuff (Was: Re: Art Debate Was: [Re: Swearing?])
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Richard Franks wrote in message ... (...) school (...) this, (...) Oh, I suspect the school system will end up getting just as much money. If nothing else, corporations will spend the money so that they can get trained workers (which is where the (...) (25 years ago, 8-Jan-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Libertarian theory and altruism (was: some incorrectly spelled thing not worth repeating
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(...) I'd rather you demonstrate to me why property is 1) a natural right and 2) the only natural right. Then we'll come back to this one. :) (25 years ago, 8-Jan-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Libertarian theory and altruism (was: some incorrectly spelled thing not worth repeating
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(...) Authoritarian fascism. (Not that I'm comparing ANYTHING to Nazis, Jasper. *grin*) It's ALL regulated. 100% simple. (25 years ago, 8-Jan-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Art Debate Was: [Re: Swearing?]
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(...) Not so at all. I'd just use a dialup account (plenty of bandwidth to deal with the discussion traffic) at one or several major ISPs. I don't think Todd wants to break Earthlink or AOL access for all of Boston. (...) Spoofing IPs probably (...) (25 years ago, 8-Jan-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Libertarian theory and altruism (was: some incorrectly spelled thing not worth repeating
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(...) Well, no. I believe that I can demonstrate why a collective will always fail, no matter how different the system, unless you can repeal cause and effect. (25 years ago, 8-Jan-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Art Debate Was: [Re: Swearing?]
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(...) Subsidies have a place if you are of the opinion that it is in the National Interest to be selfsufficient to a degree in food. In a sense, farming subsidies are a part of National Defense. Jasper (25 years ago, 8-Jan-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Libertarian theory and altruism (was: some incorrectly spelled thing not worth repeating
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Reordered things a bit... (...) So you agree that all of the below are laudable goals, then? Great. Let's talk more about what they mean and what sort of system would be needed to foster them. (...) No tax EVER and the common law (...) (25 years ago, 8-Jan-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Thread Nazis! (was Re: Goodness of Man? (was: Re: Merry Christmas from the Libertarian Party)
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(...) Consider this; perhaps it will help placate the pendant in you: the Nazi-thread-death convention is not Godwin's Law, merely derived from it. And as a tradition, it's often been that bringing Nazis into your argument in any way is grounds for (...) (25 years ago, 8-Jan-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Art Debate Was: [Re: Swearing?]
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(...) IPblocking such a thing would not block very many legitimate users. Unless you start doing things like spoofing IPs (which can be detected at a firewall level), morphing ISP accounts, etc.etc. Come to think of it, IPblocking of spoofed packets (...) (25 years ago, 8-Jan-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Thread Nazis! (was Re: Goodness of Man? (was: Re: Merry Christmas from the Libertarian Party)
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(...) Some claim so. I disagree. Sometimes I'm a pedant. Jasper (25 years ago, 8-Jan-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Goodness of Man? (was: Re: Merry Christmas from the Libertarian Party
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(...) I think you could well be right. (...) I guess that's why I don't have much respect for lawyers ;=> (...) Drive-by isn't the word. Running around "Clue" manor with guns and trying to have a duel, more like. Jasper (25 years ago, 8-Jan-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Libertarian theory and altruism (was: some incorrectly spelled thing not worth repeating
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(...) [snip] (...) This is what disturbs me about libertarian theory. It seems just as idealistic as socialist theory. If the system were totally different, worker-owned collectives would work wonderfully as a way to organize the world. But it (...) (25 years ago, 8-Jan-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Libertarian theory and altruism (was: some incorrectly spelled thing not worth repeating
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(...) Definately agreed on what would be nice - but although Libertarianism might achieve this, I don't believe that it's the only way! Richard (25 years ago, 8-Jan-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Goodness of Man? (was: Re: Merry Christmas from the Libertarian Party
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(...) I stepped back a bit, and I suspect that what is frustrating both of us, leading to perhaps less well reasoned posts than normal on one or both sides, is that we're trying to discuss several things at once. Perhaps we should pick one topic, (...) (25 years ago, 8-Jan-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Thread Nazis! (was Re: Goodness of Man? (was: Re: Merry Christmas from the Libertarian Party)
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(...) Using an example/hyperbole involving the Nazis probably counts though. (25 years ago, 8-Jan-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Libertarian theory and altruism (was: some incorrectly spelled thing not worth repeating
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(...) I'm glad that you agree with me that it's not altruism per se that is required. In turn, I agree with you on what IS required. Long term thinking. That seems to be in rather short (1) supply these days. Companies today in this particular mixed (...) (25 years ago, 8-Jan-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Libertarian stuff (Was: Re: Art Debate Was: [Re: Swearing?])
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(...) Maybe.. AFAIK Libertarian policy on education is to remove the burden of school taxes from those not responsible for the education of children. This would leave the education system with substantially less income, to supplement this, there (...) (25 years ago, 8-Jan-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Art Debate Was: [Re: Swearing?]
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(...) Hey look, me too. (Anyone surprised?) Interesting the web version of this quiz is slightly different from the one I got off of Freshmeat (ported to Unix by Eric Raymond...). That version makes some of the questions be very loaded (to the point (...) (25 years ago, 8-Jan-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Art Debate Was: [Re: Swearing?]
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(...) Wouldn't be without his knowledge. He'd just be powerless to stop it without blocking large numbers of legitimate users. Not that I'm advocating such a thing in any way. (...) Yes that's again true. (...) This is a different topic entirely of (...) (25 years ago, 8-Jan-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Libitarian guff (Was: Re: Art Debate Was: [Re: Swearing?])
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(...) No, it requires people and corporations to look into the future, evaluate long-term benefits vs short-term costs, and then make the right decision. Since all/most companies always do that, how come Y2K preparedness rose so sharply over the (...) (25 years ago, 8-Jan-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Swearing?
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(...) Yup. I agree. The problem is, when does something have a victim? For adults this quite clear -- only when there is not consent. For non-adults, this gets very blurry very fast. Does a photographer have the right to publish a photograph of, (...) (25 years ago, 8-Jan-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Libitarian guff (Was: Re: Art Debate Was: [Re: Swearing?])
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(...) Fortunately, Libertarian theory doesn't require ANYONE to be altruistic, although I can't speak for libitarian guff, whatever that is. (25 years ago, 8-Jan-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Libitarian guff (Was: Re: Art Debate Was: [Re: Swearing?])
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(...) Urgh! *shudder of fear* Taxes don't seem so bad when the alternative is hoping that corperations suddenly become altruistic towards society. (...) Well I could be totally squiffy... it's happened before you know :) Richard (25 years ago, 8-Jan-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Libitarian guff (Was: Re: Art Debate Was: [Re: Swearing?])
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weird problem.. (...) that (...) (25 years ago, 8-Jan-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Goodness of Man? (was: Re: Merry Christmas from the Libertarian Party
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Mail me so I know it works and I'll mail you the headers. But your conjecture is right, it is "MX loops back" or some similar (...) Yes, in order to get $BIGNUM you first have to transfer $BIGNUM-X to someone else. :-) (25 years ago, 8-Jan-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Art Debate Was: [Re: Swearing?]
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(...) You too? Smack-dab in the middle of left-liberal.. Jasper (25 years ago, 8-Jan-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Libitarian guff (Was: Re: Art Debate Was: [Re: Swearing?])
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(...) Presumably, if a society as a whole gets richer from educating the poor, companies will donate enough to make it possible. The big fallacy is that the vast majority of companies don't look further ahead than next quarter, up to a year or maybe (...) (25 years ago, 8-Jan-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Swearing?
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(...) I actually thought it was possible that someone might claim that a sunset was God's art. (...) As Matthew or someone said, because art handles a wider scope of issues. (...) Exactly! I think that the artist's ability to explain it aims us (...) (25 years ago, 8-Jan-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Swearing?
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(...) Yes. Photography is a method by which a 2D image is fixed of a scene. And, photographic technology can be used to create abstracts. It's really just like painting...but different. (...) Well, I guess one. But the more people for who this is (...) (25 years ago, 8-Jan-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Art Debate Was: [Re: Swearing?]
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(...) Yes. But doing so without Todd's knowledge, _while keeping it up tom date_, is next to impossible. I suspect somebody who downloaded the entire site would show up a significant blip in traffic, also. Then there is the fact that by far not (...) (25 years ago, 8-Jan-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Goodness of Man? (was: Re: Merry Christmas from the Libertarian Party
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(...) Nope. And your own citation disproves it. (...) Comparison != mention. Jasper (25 years ago, 8-Jan-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Goodness of Man? (was: Re: Merry Christmas from the Libertarian Party
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(...) Can you send me the bounce messages (by email ;) )? I'd be interested in seeing what the errors were. (...) I rather meant ignoring the irrational urge to respond to your strange notions of society ;) (...) Anyway, here's the probable problem: (...) (25 years ago, 8-Jan-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Art Debate Was: [Re: Swearing?]
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(...) The house I lived in there was built by my dad on property given my parents by my grandparents. I grew up there and have lots of important memories of it. Many people are attached to where they live by stronger things than that; should they (...) (25 years ago, 7-Jan-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Libitarian guff (Was: Re: Art Debate Was: [Re: Swearing?])
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(...) That's fine for the people who can afford to do so. Wouldn't this create a set of uber communities that had all the services, and lower class communities that had no services and people couldn't afford to move out of? Seriously, why not just (...) (25 years ago, 7-Jan-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Art Debate Was: [Re: Swearing?]
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Matthew Miller wrote in message ... (...) that (...) That (...) taxes (...) So move to a community which does have a library. (...) If it's worth the cost, it will happen. If it isn't worth the cost, then it isn't worth the cost. Another thought, I (...) (25 years ago, 7-Jan-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: defining art (was "Swearing?")
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(...) morals are flawed (...) subjective (...) insight to me. (...) that person than (...) Everything isn't art, but those *you deem* to have flawed morals will accept certain works you consider obscenities. See the difference? You make the (...) (25 years ago, 7-Jan-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Art Debate Was: [Re: Swearing?]
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(...) A community I lived in for a while didn't have access to a public library, because the majority (but not an overwhelming majority -- something like 60%) of the people who lived there didn't want to pay the few cents in taxes to join the (...) (25 years ago, 7-Jan-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: defining art (was "Swearing?")
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<387579FF.F0AA7C07@uswest.net> <FnyJnI.5L8@lugnet.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit craig hamilton wrote: <snip> (...) Ah, this is an excellent point (...) (25 years ago, 7-Jan-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Art Debate Was: [Re: Swearing?]
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(...) I disagree technically. It's almost impossible to make something available to the general public yet block copying it. But I conceed that there _is_ an essential difference between LUGnet and a book -- the dynamic interaction you mention, plus (...) (25 years ago, 7-Jan-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Art and Property ZRights
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(...) Yah. Right. Show me election results and appropriate laws, then. Maybe you want to dilute your viewpoint to the point where it is acceptable to enough people that you can have a good share of votes, just like the two major parties, but it (...) (25 years ago, 7-Jan-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Swearing?
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(...) The people looking at it. (...) Yes... and? Okay, so it's a mostly semantic difference, but it does exist. Jasper (25 years ago, 7-Jan-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Art Debate Was: [Re: Swearing?]
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(...) For one thing, I did not commit to refuting this particular point within your basic premise. That was another thread. For another, I said there that I would accept your basic premise that "all rights are property rights" You're trying to turn (...) (25 years ago, 7-Jan-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Political Poll Was (Art Debate, among others....]
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(...) Ahh! I just got a Libertarian rating! Larry is changing my views, AHHHH!!! :) Scott S. ___...___ Scott E. Sanburn-> ssanburn@cleanweb.net Systems Administrator/CAD Operator-Affiliated Engineers -> (URL) Page -> (URL) Page -> (URL) (25 years ago, 7-Jan-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Art Debate Was: [Re: Swearing?]
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(...) No, we wouldn't, and yes, it would be. Only a snapshot is easy to make. Copying the entire underlying structure of dynamical pages would not be trivial, but not hard either (since Todd speaks of it fairly freely, and much material is (...) (25 years ago, 7-Jan-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Art Debate Was: [Re: Swearing?]
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(...) I didn't think there was a non-profit status, as such? More a sort of "not profitable right now" status, the last time this came up. Jasper (25 years ago, 7-Jan-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Art Debate Was: [Re: Swearing?]
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(...) B&N is a better online bookseller than amazon, IMHO. Especially their OOP/secondhand books. As far as online publishing by the author is concerned, I refer you to the messages posted to rec.arts.sf.composition by Gene Steinberg. Jasper (25 years ago, 7-Jan-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: defining art (was "Swearing?")
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(...) john ~ and what subject matter would exclude a painting or sculpture from being art, pray tell? child pornography? there are countless pieces of undeniable art that address the subject of child sexuality in forms both subtle and gross. from (...) (25 years ago, 7-Jan-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Swearing?
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<387426AC.7833B0B8@uswest.net> <Fny1z1.DHn@lugnet.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit (...) You are correct, Craig. What I was trying to do was in reaction (...) (25 years ago, 7-Jan-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Goodness of Man? (was: Re: Merry Christmas from the Libertarian Party
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(...) Works for me. Except that you're currently apparently ignoring everyone. :-) Mail sent to you is bouncing. My mail and the mail of several other people. So you might want to look into that. I'd have mailed you but of course that wouldn't work, (...) (25 years ago, 7-Jan-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Art Debate Was: [Re: Swearing?]
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Richard Franks wrote in message ... (...) has (...) Ooh, even before I got better, I would never have supported this... (...) otherwise (...) sponsered (...) any (...) I used to have this opinion. My feeling now is that anything worthwhile that the (...) (25 years ago, 7-Jan-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Art Debate Was: [Re: Swearing?]
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(...) It varies. Probably the most interesting open source/free software license is the GPL (GNU General Public License), which states (in as watertight manner as a bunch of lawyers could make it) that the software is free to use and modify as long (...) (25 years ago, 7-Jan-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Art Debate Was: [Re: Swearing?]
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(...) Another reason no one's done it is that there's no point--Lugnet's value isn't as static repository of ideas but as a living forum for exchange of those ideas. A novel is different, since it's written once and then it's done--downloading the (...) (25 years ago, 7-Jan-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Swearing?
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(...) john ~ there are better ways to define something than to say what it is not. it's like trying to describe an elephant by saying it's not a mouse. in your search for a definition of art has gotten off track with this pornography thing. have you (...) (25 years ago, 7-Jan-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Goodness of Man? (was: Re: Merry Christmas from the Libertarian Party
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(...) Oh, but it's long been extended beyond that. I'd agree with larry; any mention of nazis is grounds for losing. Check out the jargon file entry: Godwin's Law -- [Usenet] "As a Usenet discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison (...) (25 years ago, 7-Jan-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Art Debate Was: [Re: Swearing?]
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(...) Fair enough, but I still disagree :) I would say that a worthy artist is one who produces worthy art. I would also suggest that the requirement of any form of suffering or willingness to suffer, on behalf of the artist, is an intellectual one (...) (25 years ago, 7-Jan-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Goodness of Man? (was: Re: Merry Christmas from the Libertarian Party
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(...) "I don't know how much it is but it should have been enough"? Luisten to yourself for a moment there, man. (...) Changes meant to be for the good usually turn out to be for the worst. Jasper (25 years ago, 7-Jan-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Goodness of Man? (was: Re: Merry Christmas from the Libertarian Party
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(...) No he didn't. Godwin specifically refers to calling contributors in the thread nazis/nazilike, not to just mentioning them. Jasper (25 years ago, 7-Jan-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Goodness of Man? (was: Re: Merry Christmas from the Libertarian Party
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(...) You still haven't shown that they are still completely relevant. Past successes do not equal future successes. See stockmarket. Jasper (25 years ago, 7-Jan-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Goodness of Man? (was: Re: Merry Christmas from the Libertarian Party
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(...) So if you don't buy utilitarianism, why the hell do you keep using it in your arguments? Jasper (25 years ago, 7-Jan-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Goodness of Man? (was: Re: Merry Christmas from the Libertarian Party
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(...) Your point being? (...) You get your R&D costs covered before you start inventing, or you don't. Simple. (...) They come from each individual mind. Any system where people can _independently_ think of the same things, and only one of them to (...) (25 years ago, 7-Jan-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Merry Christmas from the Libertarian Party
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(...) Hmm? You don't need computers in the home for popular votes across large areas, you need computers (and other communications technology) to transport the numbers of votes from each constituency to the central administration. Nowadays, there's (...) (25 years ago, 7-Jan-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Art Debate Was: [Re: Swearing?]
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(...) It's interesting though. A lot of us here certainly would have the technical ability to copy and redistribute lugnet -- it's not that much harder than copying an electronic novel would be. But, there are other things that might be better (...) (25 years ago, 6-Jan-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Merry Christmas from the Libertarian Party
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In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Tim Rueger writes: Now that we have better (...) Better communications technolgy exists, but that does not mean that everyone has sufficient access to it. I am writing this from work. I do not own a computer. Why? Because (...) (25 years ago, 6-Jan-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Art Debate Was: [Re: Swearing?]
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(...) I understand your assertion, and I still assert that it has little reference to reality. Your analogy with Lugnet is likewise still flawed. (...) Okay, then, how much money has Todd made on Lugnet? Enough to support himself with no other (...) (25 years ago, 6-Jan-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Art! or Not Art!
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(...) Perhaps. If you'd like to check on the reference, find "No Go the Bogeyman" by Marina Warner in your library, and look up the painting in the book's index. I think I recall the book being well-documented with footnotes and references, and if (...) (25 years ago, 6-Jan-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Art Debate Was: [Re: Swearing?]
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<FnxK4w.Gt1@lugnet.com> <3874FDA7.2043@mindspring.com> <FnxMM8.6Av@lugnet.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit (...) My assertion is that the mass market stores are going to be pushing such drek, that (...) (25 years ago, 6-Jan-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Art Debate Was: [Re: Swearing?]
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(...) Ooops! No, it doesn't, but I sure thought it did. Did it previously? Dave! (25 years ago, 6-Jan-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Art Debate Was: [Re: Swearing?]
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(...) Where and when is this magical land? And how does one get there, because clearly this philosophy has little to do with the state of the market today, or of any time in the past four centuries, since the concept of authorship came to the fore. (...) (25 years ago, 6-Jan-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Art Debate Was: [Re: Swearing?]
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(...) People who write worthwhile material will be supported irrespective of ability to copy protect their work. In fact, ultimately, the consumers will protect the works (why should I let you read my copy of XYZ, when you can download it yourself, (...) (25 years ago, 6-Jan-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Art! or Not Art!
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(...) Wasn't this painting found on the wall of Goya's hovel after his death? It doesn't seem likely to me that Goya would've censored his own painting to avoid offending himself. Additionally, I studied this painting in an Art History course, and I (...) (25 years ago, 6-Jan-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Art Debate Was: [Re: Swearing?]
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(...) That makes a lot of sense. My concern, at present--and forgive me for lapsing into my own pet crusade for a moment--is that the scourge of Postmodernism, among others, has yielded an unprecedented load of manure, and many (not here, (...) (25 years ago, 6-Jan-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Goodness of Man? (was: Re: Merry Christmas from the Libertarian Party
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(...) People are being fed. That means the system is working. Amount it costs or number of people left unfed are merely degrees to which it is working. After careful numerical analysis, one might conclude that it is working at 10% efficiency. It's (...) (25 years ago, 6-Jan-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Goodness of Man? (was: Re: Merry Christmas from the Libertarian Party
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(...) The amazing thing is that they were foresighted enough to understand this, and left the constitution as a relatively small framework, and even gave the ability to modify that. The government we have today, for better or worse, is a result of (...) (25 years ago, 6-Jan-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Goodness of Man? (was: Re: Merry Christmas from the Libertarian Party
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<3874CFB7.C78E8E40@voyager.net> <FnxHxs.MKz@lugnet.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Perhaps a workable patent system could be constructed which would recognize parallel development. I don't even see (...) (25 years ago, 6-Jan-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Goodness of Man? (was: Re: Merry Christmas from the Libertarian Party
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(...) I think ideas are not identical to physical items, and therefore not identical to physical property. But it is very useful to extend our concepts for dealing with physical property to the realm of ideas. Tangent: this is something to be (...) (25 years ago, 6-Jan-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Art and Property ZRights
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(...) Then call a vote on it in congress while you can! :-) Bruce (25 years ago, 6-Jan-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Goodness of Man? (was: Re: Merry Christmas from the Libertarian Party
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Scott: (...) D'oh! I forgot to address that! With "not being prevented from obtaining health care" I was trying to avoid implying that "the people" should pick up the bill. My oversight! (...) Well, the easiest criticism against this is that (...) (25 years ago, 6-Jan-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Patents and IP and stuff (was Re: Goodness of Man? etc)
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(...) What happens in the case of "obvious" developments? "Obvious" is of course difficult to judge (which is why it merits quotation marks) but take this theoretical example: I live in a very primitive society. We've just started developing ideas. (...) (25 years ago, 6-Jan-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Art! or Not Art!
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(...) Modified by Goya or some later censor? I presume that he may have thought it went over the line into "that's just plain sick" (and not justified by the myths) or it simply is a delusion by some scholar. It certainly starts to edge over the (...) (25 years ago, 6-Jan-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Art Debate Was: [Re: Swearing?]
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(...) You have a point, however, I think we are on the verge (if not already over the cliff) of having a market which will again support good art. This is due to the internet. With the minimal cost of distribution, who cares what the mass market (...) (25 years ago, 6-Jan-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Goodness of Man? (was: Re: Merry Christmas from the Libertarian Party
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(...) Wouldn't you then have legal recourse to sue (or whatever) that person for stealing? After all, it's your goods he's profiting from, without your permission, neh? <snippage> (...) Under a Libertarian system (which is one of the premises to (...) (25 years ago, 6-Jan-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Art and Property ZRights
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(...) Yowza! Sort of, maybe, but I don't think that too many of that majority think its goals are currently realistic, for some of the reasons already addressed in the various Libertopia posts! Dave! (25 years ago, 6-Jan-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Art and Property ZRights
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(...) You may have a point there, although I would argue that is still an emotional response. (25 years ago, 6-Jan-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Goodness of Man? (was: Re: Merry Christmas from the Libertarian Party
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(...) Drat, I should have said Communist flag. Sorry, I was typing faster than I was thinking! Does this mean I get to stop now? ;) Scott ___...___ Scott E. Sanburn-> ssanburn@cleanweb.net Systems Administrator/CAD Operator-Affiliated Engineers -> (...) (25 years ago, 6-Jan-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Goodness of Man? (was: Re: Merry Christmas from the Libertarian Party
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<3874A730.471E9696@voyager.net> <slrn879ac2.3ti.matt...ia.bu.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit (...) What Larry is saying is that the guv steals its (...) (25 years ago, 6-Jan-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Art Debate Was: [Re: Swearing?]
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(...) Aw, Larry, you had me right along with you up till this bit. Well, I'm still mostly with you, but a considerable problem with art today--and this isn't just confined to our fine nation--is the predominant aesthetic trend as much as any dubious (...) (25 years ago, 6-Jan-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Art and Property ZRights
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(...) Start worrying. We are. If you go by sentiment, anyway. (25 years ago, 6-Jan-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Goodness of Man? (was: Re: Merry Christmas from the Libertarian Party
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(...) Bzzt. Scott "loses" the debate, he mentioned Nazis first. Darn, he was doing so well, too. <grin> (25 years ago, 6-Jan-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Matthew jumps in (was Re: Goodness of Man?, etc.)
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(...) [snip] (...) Found this: (URL) I don't think you say a single word about property, let alone property rights as a foundation, though. For what it's worth: in fact, I agree strongly with your conclusion in that case. The weak link you point out (...) (25 years ago, 6-Jan-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Goodness of Man? (was: Re: Merry Christmas from the Libertarian Party
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Dave, (...) Well, whatever form it may be, it is still the same. My point is that whether you talk about providing health care, being prevented from having health care, etc., someone still has to pay for it. Whether that be the government, or (...) (25 years ago, 6-Jan-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Art and Property ZRights
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(...) Some art is intended to create an intellectual response, not emotional, or as an aid to meditation (Mark Rothko's "glowing squares"), or.... (...) Each will assign their own unique value. (...) When Libertarians are the majority party, I'll (...) (25 years ago, 6-Jan-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Swearing?
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In lugnet.off-topic.debate, John Neal writes: ] You know, the 1st degree kind with no extenuating circumstances: "you have a (...) Well, 'round these parts you might find a jury willing to acquit you on that defense! Dave! (who doesn't have a 4558 (...) (25 years ago, 6-Jan-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Art! or Not Art!
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(...) like (...) And even more frightening if the academnic speculation is true that the painting was modified from its original form, with Saturn originally having a very erect phallus while he devours the child. -- jthompson@esker.com "Float on a (...) (25 years ago, 6-Jan-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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