Subject:
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Re: Mailing list gateways
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Newsgroups:
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lugnet.admin.general
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Date:
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Thu, 21 Jan 1999 19:26:19 GMT
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Viewed:
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2175 times
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Todd Lehman wrote in message <36a6c04d.53070399@lugnet.com>...
> "Linc Smith" <ldsmith@pfc.forestry.ca> writes:
>
> But if I'm understanding your conclusions, then the flaw, I think, is in
> concluding that a lack of an obvious need for something is a reason not to • do
> that something.
I conclude that a lack of an obvious need for something _is_ a reason not to
do that something. If I have 10 bucks and someone says "place a bet with
me... if you win I will give you your 10 bucks back, and if you loose I will
give you $9.99". No advantage in betting is there? Is there an advantage if
on winning or loosing you get your 10 bucks back? This is how I feel. Now
I am the easiest kind of person to win over, since all I have to see is one
advantage.
If we get enough people to say... "I _do_ think there is an advantage" then
I am with it. My contribution to L-CAD is so small, that feel uncomfortable
discussing this as much as I do. But, I do feel that there is merit in the
status quo, and I realize you do not. Now that John Van, Steve, and Fredrik
have sounded in with support of the move. I don't think there will be much
opposition now that people are commenting on it. (see my Ps)
> > It just seems that there is no clear advantage.
>
> Do you remember writing this?--
<Snip... well formatted quotes from past emails>
Ha, NO... you can't prove it!
> Have you changed your mind about the robotics mailing list? In your mind, • do
> the advantages of the merger no longer outweigh the disadvantages? Have • the
> disadvantages grown or shrunk? (BTW, one disadvantage you discovered • (reply-to)
> has been fixed.)
No, I think that the Robotics list merger has been a success (but maybe
bordering on limited success). I feel the two gateways are not as
comparable as you might suggest. I will explain my feelings on the success
of the robotics gateway and then the lack of comparison to the L-CAD
gateway.
Step one: Why I now think that the robotics gateway is a success, but
limited success.
I still feel that the gateway _helped_ the Lugnet.robotics group -- a group
that had a substantially smaller readership and knowledge base. Keep this
in mind as your read the next paragraph.
The influx of both these attributes was positive, but at the same time the
group's ability to grow on its own, attract its own readership was sold.
What I mean is, Lugnet.robotics is tied to the list... a greater part is the
list. Subsequently, Lugnet.robotics can not grow separate and attract its
own readership separate from the mail list, and I think this is a real
disadvantage. Granted, maybe the Lugnet.robotics might still be in it's
infancy if it had not been gatewayed, but it would be itself... small,
focussed and on-topic (exactly where the whole Lugnet domain was a few
months ago, and now?). I foresee a disgruntled population of list users
wanting to get away from the list's frustrating posting practices
(billion/Y2K come to mind). Lugnet normally would have been able to offer a
haven for these people (just like it did for the RTL user), but it can't now
that it is gatewayed. If there was to be a split in the future (no idea if
that was planned, and I am not suggesting it) Lugnet.robotics would have
lost the "building time" equal to the length of the gateway duration. The
growth and development potential for the Lugnet.robotics ng was exchanged
for the immediate benefits I mentioned above; the Benefits I enjoy! But had
it remained seperate, I believe it would be coming into it's own... right...
about... now!
I now read Lugnet.robotics like it is RTL... probably too quickly (miss
stuff that I might like to read), but I don't have time to filter the fodder
otherwise. I think that there were marginal reader that just stopped.
Step two:
I do not feel the comparison between the two gateways is valid. 1) if L-CAD
is gatewayed, I think it will just move. So I can read it here or I can read
it there... I am already reading it there, and for me there is nothing wrong
with there. The fact that the L-CAD will be simply enveloped is actually an
advantage (to the gateway once implimented, not for implimenting the
gatewaying), because you will not see the problems we now have with
robotics. 2) There is not an existing group on Lugnet that covers the same
topic as L-CAD, so a particular Lugnet group would not benefit (that is not
saying a particular user). 3) The size (active) of L-CAD is a lot smaller
than the robotics list.
My feeling of the success of the robotics gateway comes from the benefit of
larger and more knowledge population, not from the physical act of making a
gateway (which I feel is the only thing comparable between the two).
> Is it possible that if L-CAD were mirrored into a newsgroup here, that • someday
> down the road you might take a look back and say, "Hey, at first I was very
> hesitant/negative about this, but now..." ?
I don't think it will be possible, since I was never negative. I don't have
a list of bad things that will happen, I just don't have a personal list of
good things either. This kinda talks to the next bit.
> If you believe that there is no clear advantage in something, yet someone • else
> does, it's usually impossible to convince them that the advantages they see
> aren't there. What you might try to do instead, if you want to change • their
> mind, is show them the clear disadvantages and how they outweigh the • perceived
> advantages.
If someone finds that spinning around once before sitting makes them more
comfortable once seated, I am not going to start doing it because I can't
think of a reason not to. I won't stop them either.
LINC
Ps Todd you can answer this in a private email if you want (I don't think
anyone else is reading our stuff :) With all the advantages that you list
Lugnet has to offer, why isn't the robotics list user moving? I propose it
is status quo at work. Until the mail lister user is **disadvantaged**
there will not be movement. Being advantaged is not enough for a movement,
unless the advantage is substantial. I offer the recent soundings of people
wanting to move L-CAD to Lugnet; do you think it is because they all of a
sudden had an epiphany of the advantages, or that the server choking is
causing a **disadvantage**. This is also seen in environmental
responsibility.
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Message has 1 Reply:
 | | Re: Mailing list gateways
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| (...) I meant, sometimes non-obvious needs exist even when no obvious needs exist. And sometimes when neither obvious nor non-obvious needs can be identified, something can still be worth doing. Most "needs" that people identify with started out as (...) (25 years ago, 21-Jan-99, to lugnet.admin.general)
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Message is in Reply To:
| | Re: Mailing list gateways
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| Todd Lehman wrote (...) :) (...) and (...) You forgot about turning on your computer and moving the mouse in that list of steps. IMO this is a Straw Man argument. If you have used LDraw or LEdit, you have read the FAQ and it is in the FAQ. It is (...) (25 years ago, 20-Jan-99, to lugnet.admin.general)
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