 | | Another one of those 'what's wrong with TPM' posts
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I've been meaning to post this for some time. I think one of the major problems with The Phantom Menace is that it is not a 'buddy movie.' In the original trilogy, you have several strong friendships/partnerships that aren't present in TPM. Examples (...) (24 years ago, 31-May-00, to lugnet.starwars)
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In lugnet.starwars, Christopher Tracey writes: A very interesting thought! I hadn't looked at it this way before. Almost everyone will agree that the effects are good, the technology is no more laughable than in the original trilogy, etc, but this (...) (24 years ago, 31-May-00, to lugnet.starwars)
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(...) Part of the problem with this "relationship" isn’t so much the writing (which, admittedly, is a factor) as the direction. Liam Neeson and Ewan MacGregor are actual actors, and they could barely stay afloat under George’s unsophisticated (...) (24 years ago, 31-May-00, to lugnet.starwars)
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(...) Yes! I certainly didn't mean to imply it was the writing. It's more the way the characters are acted. And at that, it's more Anakin. (...) I've seen worse. I don't mind Jar-Jar so much. I know that we're all supposed to hate him, but I don't (...) (24 years ago, 31-May-00, to lugnet.starwars)
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<snip> (...) Hey, maybe we'll get to see him take a Lightsaber in the gullet or something...<evil grin> -Chris (24 years ago, 31-May-00, to lugnet.starwars)
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(...) Just because Lucas has something in mind for the character, doesn't mean it will be good. Take C3PO as an example. He was annoying in E4 and didn't further the plot. He was annoying and humorous in E5 and still didn't futher the plot. E6- (...) (24 years ago, 31-May-00, to lugnet.starwars)
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Scott: (...) The problem with this, of course, is that the movie isn't the book, nor vice versa. As a work unto itself, we can't view the movie's quality based on the quality of the book, because they're two distinct entities. This happens a lot; (...) (24 years ago, 31-May-00, to lugnet.starwars)
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(...) not (...) I don't see this as a problem. I think one of the real problems is that people went to see TPM, expecting it to be a stylistic copy of ANH: a swashbuckling adventure against a powerful Empire. That's not what it's about. TPM was (...) (24 years ago, 31-May-00, to lugnet.starwars)
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(...) not (...) friendships/partnerships that (...) Leia/Han, (...) relationship is more of a (...) could explain why parts (...) That is a good point about the friendship aspect of the TPM. I read the book version of the movie, and it made a whole (...) (24 years ago, 31-May-00, to lugnet.starwars)
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(...) I don't see this as a problem. After all, the acting in the original trilogy was not top notch, but that didn't keep any of us from loving it. I don't think there is a problem with TPM, I think there's a problem with people's expectations. (...) (24 years ago, 31-May-00, to lugnet.starwars)
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(...) George Lucas, most notably. (...) At the same time, one cannot ignore the actual problems with the plot, whether or not someone else decides to "pay attention" or not. Further, "paying attention" to the plot doesn't simply mean carefully (...) (24 years ago, 31-May-00, to lugnet.starwars)
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Scott: (...) I wasn't aware of that the book had come from the screenplay, but you raise another good point, bordering on meta-criticism; any film is a re-invention of its screenplay to some degree, and a book is likewise a re-invention of the film (...) (24 years ago, 31-May-00, to lugnet.starwars)
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(...) Very true. It is intended to show the fall of the Old Republic, the skillful connivings of a little known senator from Naboo, and how one boy can have such a dramatic effect on the fate of the universe. (...) Me, if it's one of the Kevin J. (...) (24 years ago, 31-May-00, to lugnet.starwars)
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(...) what (...) and (...) But how can you make those notes and/or reflect on anything if you didn't pay attention to the plot to begin with? I can't tell you how many times I've asked people to explain their opinion and they can't tell me why they (...) (24 years ago, 31-May-00, to lugnet.starwars)
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Dave, (...) of (...) 1000% (...) vice (...) the (...) a (...) may (...) the (...) to (...) Well, I thought the book was from the screenplay, unless I misunderstood. If it is not the case, I agree with your point. However, if it was in the original (...) (24 years ago, 31-May-00, to lugnet.starwars)
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"Bryan Hodges" <bhodges@SPAMBLOCKco...ntweb.net> wrote in message news:FvFzy8.JDv@lugnet.com... (...) way (...) trilogy (...) is. (...) story, (...) matter (...) the (...) sales (...) I was going to post my opinion, but I see that it already has. (...) (24 years ago, 31-May-00, to lugnet.starwars)
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"Dave Schuler" <orrex@excite.com> wrote in message news:FvG074.KFK@lugnet.com... (...) If (...) raise (...) re-invention of (...) the (...) I too, recall hearing that the book is an adaptation of the screenplay. Hiring an exceptional writer to do (...) (24 years ago, 31-May-00, to lugnet.starwars)
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(...) <snipped> Agreed. TPM is about a different time. I didn't expect it to be a copy of any of the originals, in fact I liked it a lot. Here's another thought, in the 'dark times' that we see during the height of the Empire, friendship may be more (...) (24 years ago, 31-May-00, to lugnet.starwars)
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(...) Yeah, but their consverations in the pod racer hanger seem to show that they are getting to know one another... It will be interesting to see how they meet up again. -Chris (24 years ago, 31-May-00, to lugnet.starwars)
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(...) I agree in principle, but I'm not entirely sure I'm comfortable with your choice of adjective (personal taste, I suppose). Dave! (24 years ago, 31-May-00, to lugnet.starwars)
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(...) Um, Dr. Evil, um, we couldn't get the mutated sea bass...Animal cruelty laws.. :-) Toki (24 years ago, 31-May-00, to lugnet.starwars)
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(...) We're basically agreeing here, though our aesthetic opinions are in conflict. Thoughtful criticism demands close viewing/reading. Perhaps the problem is less specifically with plot than with particular elements of pacing and story. The (...) (24 years ago, 31-May-00, to lugnet.starwars)
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(...) I'm not entirely comfortable having C3PO built by Darth Vader; it seems a little too contrived, even for Lucas. On a more universe-specific note, didn't 3PO in one of the myriad books indicate that he'd never had him memory wiped? If so, it (...) (24 years ago, 31-May-00, to lugnet.starwars)
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(...) didn't (...) IV, (...) But, you must remember that the ONLY thing that holds water when it comes to the SW movies is the movies themselves. Books mean nothing, and nothing in them should be accepted as fact. -Chris (24 years ago, 31-May-00, to lugnet.starwars)
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Throw me a bone, here, People. ~Mark P.S. Just to keep this on-topic.... I like Star Wars! (...) laws.. (...) (24 years ago, 1-Jun-00, to lugnet.starwars)
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(...) technobabble of the (...) Yeah, I didn't like that either. I preferred the mysticism and the "gift" type of thing better. ~M (24 years ago, 1-Jun-00, to lugnet.starwars)
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(...) This anti-expanded universe attitude does not hold much water. Every book ever written in the Star Wars universe must first pass through several "continuity editors." These guys work directly for Lucasarts to ensure that no authorized (...) (24 years ago, 1-Jun-00, to lugnet.starwars)
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I think what he was trying to say, is that the official policy of Lucasfilm is that the movies are the only true Canon, and that if Lucas puts something into a SW movie, then that is the SW "truth" even if it contradicts something from a book. ~Mark (...) (24 years ago, 1-Jun-00, to lugnet.starwars)
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(...) Scott, I agree with you. I was just saying that George Lucas alone writes the SW movies, and the ONLY thing he absolutely has to adhere to is his own writings, the other movies. He can incorporate and twist ideas from numerous other sources, (...) (24 years ago, 1-Jun-00, to lugnet.starwars)
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(...) Oh, I know. Likewise, I'll believe the Vader-in-the-volcano bit when I see it. For that matter, I've never read more than a few pages of any of the books, other than a few West End Games odds-n-ends. Still, it strikes me as hokey that Anakin (...) (24 years ago, 1-Jun-00, to lugnet.starwars)
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(...) A great observation, Chris. By trying to second-guess Lucas, you could suppose that he's making a point about life in the last days of the Old Republic. It shows only relationships gapped by large differences of authority: "Queen"/subjects, (...) (24 years ago, 1-Jun-00, to lugnet.starwars)
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What Kevin J. Anderson book are you talking about? Or are you talking about several or all of his books? I read a few of his thought they were pretty good. Adam (...) (24 years ago, 1-Jun-00, to lugnet.starwars)
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Are there any known contradictions in the SW universe between books and the movies or whatever other sources there are? Adam (...) (24 years ago, 1-Jun-00, to lugnet.starwars)
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WARNING: There's a grand amount of soap-boxing going on in this post. I've already posted these ideas before, but a long time ago ... ahh well, it's time to air out the attic, I guess. Please feel free to ignore me, I always do :) (...) I always (...) (24 years ago, 1-Jun-00, to lugnet.starwars)
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(...) Well, apparently, the entire "Droids" cartoon series, which purports to take place before Episode IV. Episode I makes it a little impossible. It does have the first mention of Pod Racing, though. And, if memory serves, Malastare. eric (24 years ago, 1-Jun-00, to lugnet.starwars)
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(...) Err. No? The only things that are canon (one N) besides the movies are the Heir to the Empire trilogy and Shadows of the Empire. eric (24 years ago, 1-Jun-00, to lugnet.starwars)
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(...) I can't agree more. This midichlorian thing is the one and only thing that I never apologize, in any condition. Jat Jar, ewoks, some stupidity about the plot are all could be accepted in extend, but this midichlorian thing!.. It completely (...) (24 years ago, 1-Jun-00, to lugnet.starwars)
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While it is entirely possible that C3PO did indicate in one of the books that he'd never had his memory wiped, you've got to remember that Lucas is not bound by the books. Anyone that writes a Star Wars book is simply writing a modification to (...) (24 years ago, 1-Jun-00, to lugnet.starwars)
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(...) So if I want to juice up my Forcability, do I run to the doctor for a quick shot of midichlorians? Quantifying the accessibility of the Force in any way by definition strips it of some of its mysticism, much like saying that someone is more (...) (24 years ago, 1-Jun-00, to lugnet.starwars)
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(...) That depends. If you want to "juice up" the efficiency of turning food into energy, do you go to your doctor for a quick shot of mitochondria? No? If you want to be smarter, can you just put some neurons in a syringe and launch them into your (...) (24 years ago, 1-Jun-00, to lugnet.starwars)
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(...) What I remember is that 3P0 and R2 developed their "personality quirks" because they didn't get regular memory wipes. But anyway, if 3P0 *did* get a memory wipe...how would he know, unless someone told him? It's entirely possible for both to (...) (24 years ago, 1-Jun-00, to lugnet.starwars)
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(...) Alright to put this whole thing to rest... If you lurk on alt.startrek.vs.starwars long enough you will be forced to learn this. Lucasfilm's offical order of canon (in the event of a contradiction the highest source takes priority) is as (...) (24 years ago, 1-Jun-00, to lugnet.starwars)
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(...) **snip** (...) I was making a rhetorical point, rather than giving a precise suggestion of how to get Forceful. (...) If you're speaking figuratively, not at all. If, as I was, you're referring to actual manna in his actual blood, then you're (...) (24 years ago, 1-Jun-00, to lugnet.starwars)
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(...) I admit that my expectations were really high, but...they were high because the trailer was so great. That trailer really pumped me up (it was actually worth sitting through that 3 hours of coma-inducing detritus called Meet Joe Black to see (...) (24 years ago, 1-Jun-00, to lugnet.starwars)
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(...) way. (...) Now maybe it is just me but the second viewing I had this overwhelming thought that Qui-Gon knew he was taking the real Queen out on Tattooine. It also seemed he kept trying to call her bluff. i.e. "The Queen trusts my Judgement and (...) (24 years ago, 1-Jun-00, to lugnet.starwars)
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(...) Good Point. The fact that Threepio was built by Anakin gives me some plot- jitters. Why, for example, did Vader not recognize R2 & C3PO when in ANH when everyone was rushing across the docking bay floor to make it to the Falcon (when Vader (...) (24 years ago, 1-Jun-00, to lugnet.starwars)
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(...) Lucas said at one point before the movie (as an answer to a question about whether there would be a lightsaber duel in TPM) that what we had seen up until now (ie, the first three movies) was old men past their prime and a young kid who had no (...) (24 years ago, 1-Jun-00, to lugnet.starwars)
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(...) a (...) What?! Anderson does a far more competent job than Zahn. I swear Zahn thought he was writing Trek novels. Lets see he describes Turbolasers as a beam (like phasers) in stead of bolts, he gave and X-wing a crappy sub-space antena (...) (24 years ago, 1-Jun-00, to lugnet.starwars)
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(...) until (...) Fascinating. I got that idea just from watching the 4 exsisting movies. And people say Lucas doesn't know how to tell a story. I reserve final Judgement on everything till I can spend a day watching all 6 movies. -Lord Insanity (24 years ago, 1-Jun-00, to lugnet.starwars)
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(...) How about because Threepio looks like every other protocol droid of the same make and model in the Star Wars universe? There was one on Bespin, there was one on the Nemoidian ship at the very beginning of TPM... Droids are just another (...) (24 years ago, 1-Jun-00, to lugnet.starwars)
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(...) Major time disagree with you: (URL) here for details. -Lord Insanity (24 years ago, 1-Jun-00, to lugnet.starwars)
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(...) Ok. I concede that point. It does seem strange to me that neither Vader nor Obi Wan seem to register their prior acquaintance with the droids, but I know that it can be argued that Obi Wan realized that his old acquaintances had come full (...) (24 years ago, 1-Jun-00, to lugnet.starwars)
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(...) Yeah, but that's not really all too subtle. Besides which, the saber fighting in Episode IV reflects the lower production costs and technical sophistication of the 70's. I flatly disbelieve the "old men" excuse; if "size matters not," I don't (...) (24 years ago, 1-Jun-00, to lugnet.starwars)
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(...) Hmm. Vader I'm not so surprised about.. he doesn't exactly sit down and chat with Threepio or Artoo at any point. Obi Wan... well, Artoo claims to belong to Obi Wan, and all Obi Wan says is "I don't remember owning any droids". It's very (...) (24 years ago, 1-Jun-00, to lugnet.starwars)
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(...) Irrelevant. I'm not saying "George should have done such-and-such to realize George's vision better"--I'm saying that George could have done such- and-such to make a better film. Whatever else it is, it is also a film. (...) Not really. He (...) (24 years ago, 1-Jun-00, to lugnet.starwars)
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(...) Zahn thought (...) beam (...) antena (...) have (...) really bad (...) Oh PL-EEEEEEASE. Kevin Anderson's Jedi Academy Trilogy was built-up and built-up... over the course of three books, and then they solve the whole thing by holding hands at (...) (24 years ago, 1-Jun-00, to lugnet.starwars)
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In lugnet.starwars, Dave Schuler writes: <snip> (...) because (...) "vision." To paraphrase a wise man, that depends greatly on your point of view. You may see it as an investment of your money. I think George sees it as his movie, and people happen (...) (24 years ago, 1-Jun-00, to lugnet.starwars)
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(...) If 20-25+ years ago George Lucas planned to offer his audience modest lightsaber battles (in ANH & TESB), so that he could wow his future fans (the same fans that he was sure would in fact be hooked) with a phenomenal lightsaber battles in his (...) (24 years ago, 1-Jun-00, to lugnet.starwars)
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What makes you think that? I don't think anyone could say that without knowing what happens in Episode III. Adam (...) (24 years ago, 1-Jun-00, to lugnet.starwars)
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(...) It's one I've heard over and over as showing "how stupid midichlorians are" without the people saying it ever realizing how stupid their "counterargument" sounds. If you mean you preferred the force as a wholly mystical rather than as a (...) (24 years ago, 1-Jun-00, to lugnet.starwars)
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(...) Droids claims to be the adventures of Threepio and Artoo well, well before Episode IV. The problem is that Episode I takes place too soon before Episode IV (Not to mention that we know a lot of time is skipped between I and II) to allow the (...) (24 years ago, 1-Jun-00, to lugnet.starwars)
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(...) I too don't but the "awesome powers of foresight" explanations. I may not think much of Lucas as a writer, but he is one. Part of creativity is re-interpreting your own work. Especially when you have to work yourself out of a plot jam. When (...) (24 years ago, 1-Jun-00, to lugnet.starwars)
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(...) I didn't say that he planned it that far in advance, nor do I beleive that. I was merely repeating what Lucas said. I *do* think it was a bit of a retcon. I do like it because it lets him have more exciting lightsaber battles now. (...) Err, (...) (24 years ago, 1-Jun-00, to lugnet.starwars)
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I agree that even though he Obi-Wan doesn't come out and say he knows the droids, doesn't he say something like "Come here little friend" to R2D2 when he is hiding in the rocks on Tatooine after the Sand People attack Luke in ANH. Adam (...) (24 years ago, 1-Jun-00, to lugnet.starwars)
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(...) I said I'd never seen any statement to that effect--from an official source like Lucas or Kurtz talking about the early story (and I've seen a few of those types of interviews.) Besides, Obi-wan made everybody think otherwise, and that's the (...) (24 years ago, 1-Jun-00, to lugnet.starwars)
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(...) I've seen and read several interviews with Lucas where he says that the original trilogy was written as one story (there was only one Death Star, though). Obi-Wan has his own reasons for lying to Luke. They should be obvious, if you think (...) (24 years ago, 1-Jun-00, to lugnet.starwars)
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Just a bunch of disjointed thoughts about this thread: C3P0 in TPM - I thought it was hokey and severely contrived that Anakin built him. If it was necessary to introduce C3P0 in this movie, I think it should have been in a more reasonable way. C3P0 (...) (24 years ago, 1-Jun-00, to lugnet.starwars)
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(...) Lucas seems to be making things up as he goes along. I wouldn't attribute that comment to any story continuity that is now revealing itself. I think that it was just Obi Wan being a nice old gentleman. (24 years ago, 1-Jun-00, to lugnet.starwars)
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I think the midichlorians still do have a 'mysterious' quality to them. Remember in Episode I when Qui-Gon asked Shmi about Anakin's father, and she replied "There was no father...I carried him..." etc. Which means either the midichlorians (...) (24 years ago, 1-Jun-00, to lugnet.starwars)
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"James Simpson" <jsimpson@rice.edu> wrote in message news:FvHsIr.AAL@lugnet.com... (...) when (...) in ANH. (...) that (...) that it (...) Another thing to look at is, if I remember correctly, Obi Wan never really got close to R2 in EPI. When in (...) (24 years ago, 1-Jun-00, to lugnet.starwars)
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(...) Specifically, I'm referring to Champions of the Force, Dave Apprentice, and Jedi Search. These books were...awful. Half of the force users were inept morons at the beginning of the book. By the end, they were doing things even Yoda wasn't (...) (24 years ago, 1-Jun-00, to lugnet.starwars)
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I never read any books from any of the two authors you are mentioning here, but here is a good reading, from one of the most "trusty" (IMHO of course) SW reference sites around the net: (URL) "Post ROTJ Apocrypha" Actually all of the site is full (...) (24 years ago, 2-Jun-00, to lugnet.starwars)
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(...) Jaba The Hutt of the first film, (the original one, not the retouched, effect rich newer editions) was also a humanoid. See the reference multimedia CD title from Lucas Arts, "Behind the Magic" for an interview with Lucas, about how they (...) (24 years ago, 2-Jun-00, to lugnet.starwars)
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(...) Perhaps I saw oddly edited versions prior to '97, but I don't recall seeing Jabba onscreen at all! Dave! (24 years ago, 2-Jun-00, to lugnet.starwars)
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(...) You're right. That scene ended up on the cutting room floor, it was then resurrected in re-mastered versions. The human actor was covered with the overgrown slug we know & love - not a very good scene anyway in my opinion. Scott a (...) (24 years ago, 2-Jun-00, to lugnet.starwars)
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| | Re: Another one of those 'what's wrong with TPM' posts
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(...) friendships/partnerships that (...) relationship is more of a (...) could explain why parts (...) Sorry, just had to drop in two more cents to the collection plate... You're pretty darn close to right. One of the things that makes stories (...) (24 years ago, 2-Jun-00, to lugnet.starwars)
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| | Re: Another one of those 'what's wrong with TPM' posts
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(...) Yeah! And it would have been better if Jabba didn't very nearly duplicate Greedo's dialogue from the previous scene! Dave! (24 years ago, 2-Jun-00, to lugnet.starwars)
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| | Re: Another one of those 'what's wrong with TPM' posts
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(...) snarling (...) it. (...) seeing (...) Well, in the special edition of A New Hope, when they showed how the film was made, the Jabba scene, before Luke and Ben came on the ship, Han was talking to Jabba, who was a fat human, but never was (...) (24 years ago, 2-Jun-00, to lugnet.starwars)
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| | Re: Another one of those 'what's wrong with TPM' posts
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(...) I think the Luke/Han relationship is very important to ANH. It's my impression that Han didn't care about Luke until they got trapped in the cell block. Even then its a relationship of convienance since Luke was on Han's side and they were (...) (24 years ago, 2-Jun-00, to lugnet.starwars)
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| | SW Book Argument
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I liked both trilogys. However, I came away from Zahn's trilogy with a better feeling than I did with Anderson's trilogy. I kind of felt like Anderson was trying to cash in on Zahn's success, but I still found the books to be quite good. I agree (...) (24 years ago, 2-Jun-00, to lugnet.starwars)
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| | Re: Another one of those 'what's wrong with TPM' posts
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I just want to state that based on Obi-Wan's reaction when Luke asks him how his father died that we can assume that Lucas always intended Vader to be Luke's father. He kind of has that "searching-for-an-explanation" look on his face. Obi-Wan KNOWS (...) (24 years ago, 2-Jun-00, to lugnet.starwars)
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| | Re: Another one of those 'what's wrong with TPM' posts
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(...) I am not so sure about this. The flirtation between Luke and his sister, them looks ill-advised... given that SW was a kid's film. Scott A (...) (24 years ago, 2-Jun-00, to lugnet.starwars)
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| | Re: Another one of those 'what's wrong with TPM' posts
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(...) that (...) I definately agree. When Lucas was making ANH he had no idea that it was going to take off like it did. Since he didn't know whether he would have the funds to make the rest of the trilogy or not, I'm sure there were things that (...) (24 years ago, 2-Jun-00, to lugnet.starwars)
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| | Re: Another one of those 'what's wrong with TPM' posts
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(...) You can also see part of the scene with the original actor on the "From Star Wars to Jedi" video... it's a great video, IMO as entertaining to watch as any of the films. -Bryan (24 years ago, 2-Jun-00, to lugnet.starwars)
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| | Re: Another one of those 'what's wrong with TPM' posts
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(...) Well, it may be important/necessary, but I never felt it their relationship to be very well defined, expanded, or altogether interesting. There's nothing really intreguing about their friendship... But relationships like Vader/Luke, Leia/Han, (...) (24 years ago, 2-Jun-00, to lugnet.starwars)
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| | Re: Another one of those 'what's wrong with TPM' posts
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(...) Er, I'll have to disagree wth you there. Han's opinion of Luke goes from "Watch your mouth, kid, or you're going to find yourself floating home" to "You're pretty good in a fight. We could use someone like you." He's offering to make Luke part (...) (24 years ago, 2-Jun-00, to lugnet.starwars)
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| | Re: Another one of those 'what's wrong with TPM' posts
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One of the SW novels I've read, I can't remember which one now, has Han looking back at that time, and he says that the only reason he had come back was because his hyperdrive didn't work, and couldn't leave. I thought that was interesting. Adam (...) (24 years ago, 2-Jun-00, to lugnet.starwars)
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| | Re: Another one of those 'what's wrong with TPM' posts
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(...) That really takes away from some important aspects of the story - Han was nothing more than riff-raff at first, but he learned to believe in things greater than himself. A prominent theme in the SW saga is redemption. That novel sounds like (...) (24 years ago, 2-Jun-00, to lugnet.starwars)
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| | Re: Another one of those 'what's wrong with TPM' posts
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I thought it was a good book, if its the one I'm thinking of. I think it was Vector Prime by R. A. Salvatore. I wouldn't call it an 'uninspired hack job.' I agree that redemption is a big part of SW. George Lucas himself said that the Classic (...) (24 years ago, 3-Jun-00, to lugnet.starwars)
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| | Re: Another one of those 'what's wrong with TPM' posts
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(...) I don't understand how people don't see this. Watch all 4 movies in "chronological" order. No one realized it before ep. 1 but it seems glaringly obvious to me that the choreography supported the theory of old men and a young inexperienced (...) (24 years ago, 3-Jun-00, to lugnet.starwars)
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| | Re: Another one of those 'what's wrong with TPM' posts
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(...) his (...) The sister thing *was* thrown in. Between Episode IV and Episode V being filmed, Mark Hamill was in a motorcycle accident. Besides necessitating the addition of the Wampa scenes (to explain the new scars, and the change in his face (...) (24 years ago, 4-Jun-00, to lugnet.starwars)
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| | Re: Another one of those 'what's wrong with TPM' posts
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(...) I would rather think that the Jedi potential has what is in him already to attract midichlorians, rather than the midi stuff being born in his blood. The "scientific explanation" for the force is probably to placate young new viewers who think (...) (24 years ago, 6-Jun-00, to lugnet.starwars)
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| | Re: Another one of those 'what's wrong with TPM' posts
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(...) Yes, because the number of kids who watch the evolving monsters of Pokemon and read Harry Potter show that today's youth have a hard time swallowing anything magical. eric (24 years ago, 6-Jun-00, to lugnet.starwars)
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| | Re: Another one of those 'what's wrong with TPM' posts
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(...) Well, what do you know! I first heard that Vader-in-the-lava story some time in 1980 and shortly after seeing Empire. It was apocryphal then, but... Dave! (19 years ago, 21-May-05, to lugnet.starwars)
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