Subject:
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Re: jumping to conclusions
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Newsgroups:
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lugnet.off-topic.debate
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Date:
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Sun, 5 May 2002 12:54:46 GMT
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Viewed:
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1757 times
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In lugnet.off-topic.debate, David Koudys writes:
> Doing the only thing they can? Strapping bombs to themselves and blowing up
> women, kids, houses and villages? Only thing they can??
They have a rock to move and no lever.
There are lands that they believe are by rights theirs that the state of Israel
has occupied for a long time. They want an Israeli withdrawl. They've tried
many things including appeal to the world authority. Nothing has worked.
They came to end of their rope and they are trying something new. I doubt that
it will work for them, but it might. I don't think the terror that they
inflict on the Israelis will bend Israeli policy, but if they can horrify
enough of us out in the rest of the world we might pressure our governances to
pressure Israel. It might work.
> I don't care what the world could throw at me, there will *never* come a
> time when I would feel justified to strap TNT to myself and go blow up
> civilians.
Why not? What is fundamentally different between attacking civilians and
soldiers? It would be silly and futile to attack Israely troops. What course
of action do you suggest for the Palestinians instead of the one that disturbs
you so much?
> Thus the fundamental difference--these people are what would be called
> 'fanatics'--not capable of objective, rational thought.
Are not the Israeli equally fanatic?
> So what's the difference b/w me and these terrorists?
You have all the advantages and none of the grit. You think you could never
operate at that level. But that's just talk. We never know what we'd do in
alien circumstances.
> I was not brought up to *hate* a person or a race, but rather
> rejoice in the differences we offer one another.
Uh huh. The Arabs that I know don't hate a race, they have a political agenda.
(None of these are Palestinians, I guess...actually I'm not sure of that since
I have known a couple Jordanians.
> I was taught to seek resolution of conflicts. I learned that
> there is always 'another side', another way of understanding an issue.
So can you see the 'other side' in this one? I don't know that the
Palestinians are actively seeing the other side either, but for whatever
reason, I can see their side and it seems like many people here can't.
> I was taught to *not* hate. These fanatics were taught *to* hate.
Or maybe they're desperate and willing to die for a cause. Lots of heroes are
similarly motivated. What's the difference?
> A 'Just' war is something I can support, fanatical spreading of terror, not
> so much.
You're just using propagandizing verbiage. Like labeling a religion a cult, or
a house a compound. You vilify those whom you oppose in order to clear the way
for your feelings and your stance. A "just" war? What the hell is that?
Here's how it works when we decide to commit troops to a war effort: We
initiate a propaganda program to make the war effort seem patriotic. We take
impressionable boys who are hormonally unbalanced and have been brainwashed
with statist malarky for at least ten years in state institutions (for the most
part) and bully them through a variety of methods into spending their lives and
health for a political cause. Whatever that cause is, and some of them seem
very worthy to me, is that what you mean by "just?"
"Fanatical spreading of terrror" is a great phrase. But why must the use of
terror as a weapon by inextricable with fanaticism? For that matter, why would
we associate suicide attacks with a lack of reason? Isn't that what we train
our boys for when we're sending troops to far off causes?
> Anyway, *if* it were me in charge, I'd call for a time out and put these
> spoiled kids in a corner, and to only come out when they're ready to talk.
No one is actually in charge though. We have to figure a way out
together...Everyone who's interested.
In all of this, I'm not even advocating the use of suicide bombers for a
Palestinians. I still doubt it will get them what they want. I'm just saying
that I empathize with their position, I understand what would lead people to
rationally embrace terror as a tool, and I think that the first step for any
people who want to make peace where there is none, is to understand and
empathize with all sides. You or I won't be able to help solve a conflict
unless and until we can walk in the shoes of each side and search for common
ground on which to build trust. The Israelis and Palestinians, both members of
the same species, are still more alike than they are different. There is lots
of common ground to use.
Chris
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Message is in Reply To:
 | | Re: jumping to conclusions
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| (...) Doing the only thing they can? Strapping bombs to themselves and blowing up women, kids, houses and villages? Only thing they can?? I don't care what the world could throw at me, there will *never* come a time when I would feel justified to (...) (23 years ago, 24-Apr-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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