Subject:
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Re: jumping to conclusions
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Newsgroups:
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lugnet.off-topic.debate
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Date:
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Fri, 26 Apr 2002 10:51:37 GMT
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Viewed:
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1656 times
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In lugnet.off-topic.debate, John Neal writes:
> In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Scott Arthur writes:
> > > We must work at
> > > > finding peace. Real peace only comes with understanding, via education, not
> > > > with supplying guns and ammo to either side to escalate the violence.
> > >
> > > Again I say to you, Dave, in all sincerity: what if one party doesn't *want*
> > > peace? This is the dirty little secret we in the West are having such a hard
> > > time understanding. Of course everyone wants peace, right? That's the goal of
> > > any civilized society. But we are not talking about "civil" people; we are
> > > talking about people who murder innocents randomly and for what? What do they
> > > want? Peace? They want something, but peace isn't it. I'll let you connect
> > > the dots.
> >
> >
> > John,
> > Your whole thesis appears to be:
> > 1) Arabs/Palestinians are uncivilised troublemakers.
>
> I was referring to PLO *terrorists*.
So, if it is only the PLO terrorists who are uncivilised troublemakers, why
are you anti-Palestinian?
>
> > 2) Israel is a peace loving nation.
>
> Never said that. What would Israel know of peace?? She has
> never been allowed to exist in peace!
Let’s just question this. Why did Meir (and her cabinet) turn down a
cease-fire offer from Nasser (made via the USA?) on 7th Feb 1970? Her
thinking was this: as Nasser made the offer, it must be in his interest –
therefore it should be rejected!
Abba Eban (Foreign Minister at the time) described the situation like this:
“This episode, illustrated the difficulty of being a foreign minister in a
cabinet that had an exaggerated vision of the role of war in international
politics. The triumph of our forces in 1967 had encouraged a belief in an
Israeli invincibility that ceased to operate as soon as the Six-Day War came
to a halt. It was not Golda at her best. The episode highlighted the
centrality of personal rancor in the general system of her thought and emotion.”
This meant that Nasser was able to go to Moscow and ask for air cover. This,
in turn, meant that Israel had to ask the USA for help – i.e. both the super
powers were brought into the Middle East. Ultimately, fighting did not stop
until 7th August – and the terms with Egypt were *worse* than those offered
on 7th Feb.
> Yes, Israel *would like* to exist in
> peace, but for now, Israel would just like to exist, period.
>
> > 3) There is an international anti-Israeli media conspiracy which distorts
> > reality.
>
> I never said that, either. I said there is a liberal bias in the media, which
> tends to sympathize with the Palestinians.
Proof please?
> >
> > However, to date, you have produced nothing that backs your thesis as a
> > whole other than your own biased opinion. In short, you lack all credibility
> > on this issue.
>
> I made no "thesis".
That is why I said “appears”!
> And what the heck's a "biased opinion"? Of course my
> opinions are biased! You probably think yours are unbiased.
Bias : “a tendency to support or oppose a particular person or thing in an
unfair way by allowing personal opinions to influence your judgment ”
I like to think my opinions are “informed”.
> Anyone who
> supposes that has no credibility, IMO.
> >
> > Despite that, you are welcome to hold your opinions. What I don’t get is why
> > you hold them? Why do you ignore the truth?
>
> What "truth" do I ignore, Scott?
See:
http://news.lugnet.com/off-topic/debate/?n=16214
> And why do you need to "get" why I hold my
> beliefs? I have *no* idea why *you* believe what you believe, and couldn't care
> less anyway.
>
> It is not even as if you offer a
> > different perspective on events, you just ignore reality and make wholly
> > unsubstantiated allegations.
>
> I have no idea what you're talking about.
>
>
> Answer me this, Scott:
>
> 1. Is terrorism ever justified?
I have made my views known on this already – in this very thread!
>
> 2. Was the attack on 9-11 justified?
I have made my views known on this already – I’m rather offended you have
even asked me this.
> 3. What in your opinion *should* have been the US response?
I think the USA should have forged a deal with Pakistan (a country which is
accused of supporting terrorism) to enable Afghanistan to be “bombed into
the stone age”. This would have to be done with minimal risk to US forces,
so perhaps 5000-7000 civilians would be killed in the process. This fact
alone will fuel anti-American/Western sentiment in the Muslim world for
decades to come... but what does that matter! Again to ensure minimal risk
to US forces, I would have then forged alliances with all manner of
murderous militia and habitual rapists on the ground. I think the US should
then lock-up all manner of terrorist suspects without trial.
Only these actions will rid the world of the evil that is terrorism!
I could then wave my flag and watch the whole thing live on CNN. Anyone who
criticised what was happening in my war to protect "freedom" would be called
an
“anti-American-Terrorsit-Hugging-LIBREL-insult-to-memeroy-of-all-those-who-died-on-911-&-The-Flag-&-George-Washington-&-the-coca-cola-company!
What about you, do you know *WHY* 911 happened? Do you care? Do you want
justice or revenge?
> 4. Does Israel have the right to exist?
I have made my views known on this already – in this very thread!
>
> 5. Has the PLO ever promised peace?
I expect it has.
>
> 6. Does Arafat *want* peace?
Just like Sharon, he wants it on his terms. Like Sharon, he belongs in jail.
Scott A
>
> -John
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Message has 1 Reply:
 | | Re: jumping to conclusions
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| (...) <typing slowly so you will finally get it> The Palestinians *support* the PLO and all of their terrorist activity. The PLO murders *on behalf* of the Palestinians, *with their blessing*. *That* is why I am against them. Let them renounce the (...) (23 years ago, 26-Apr-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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Message is in Reply To:
| | Re: jumping to conclusions
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| (...) I was referring to PLO *terrorists*. (...) Never said that. What would Israel know of peace?? She has never been allowed to exist in peace! Yes, Israel *would like* to exist in peace, but for now, Israel would just like to exist, period. (...) (...) (23 years ago, 24-Apr-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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