Subject:
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Re: jumping to conclusions
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Newsgroups:
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lugnet.off-topic.debate
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Date:
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Mon, 22 Apr 2002 11:38:55 GMT
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Viewed:
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2688 times
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In lugnet.off-topic.debate, John Neal writes:
> In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Scott Arthur writes:
>
> > > > Here's an image for you: Palestinians dancing and celebrating in the streets
> > > > after 9-11. No sympathy here, buster.
>
> > I did not expect an answer from you on this. The reality is that anyone who
> > did celebrate the loss of life on September-11 probably would view those
> > killed as being supporters of the “Zionist oppressor/aggressor/whatever”.
> > That is, in the same simplistic manner you think all Palestinians are
> > terrorists; they may well have viewed all US citizens as their oppressors.
>
> Having this discussion with you is futile-- I *never* said that I thought all
> Palestinians are terrorists.
I said:
"My views on human rights and international law, together with my
understanding of recent middle-east history, leads me to sympathize with the
Palestinian people, not with "PLO terrorists". I hope you understand the
distinction between the two."
You said:
"Sorry, there isn't one."
ie: You think there is not distinction between the Palestinian people and
"PLO terrorists"?
Just what were your grounds for saying I support "PLO terrorists"? Do you
have any?
> From your "sighs" in previous posts, it seems to
> me that you think that you have such a superior command of facts.
Not really. I was disappointed by your view - that is all, but in the
remainder of this message you appear to think you have “such a superior
command of facts”(?).
>
> Have you ever been to Israel?
No, but a fellow Scot recently tried to go:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/uk/scotland/newsid_1935000/1935195.stm
> Have you ever even spoken with a Palestinian?
Yes.
> Or
> is *your* information simply your daily dosage of BBC poured down your throat?
No. But a recent report I read suggested that the media tended to have a
pro-Israeli stance. Rather than alleging some sort of international media
conspiracy, perhaps you should *consider* the argument that Israel is an
oppressor of the Palestine people?
> It might surprise you to learn that I *have* been to Israel, I have met many
> Palestinians, I have played basketball and soccer with their children in
> Ramallah and Nablus, I have even studied the Arab-Israeli dilemma from a
> professor at Beirzeit University-- so I have first hand knowledge of the
> problems there.
The University Israel “blockaded”:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/Archive/Article/0,4273,4152570,00.html
What did studying the “Arab-Israeli dilemma” do for you? Did it lead you to
feel that international law and UN resolutions should be upheld or ignored?
>
> All of the Palestinians I met were fine and peace-loving people. My point is
> that they are not being well served by PLO terrorist leadership. They have,
> unfortunate as it may be, backed the wrong horse. And they will continue to be
> frustrated in their nationalistic endeavors until they choose peace over their
> allegiance to Arafat and the PLO. There could (should!) have been peace *
> decades* ago!
Who else can they turn to? International law is on their side. UN
resolutions support them... but still justice has not been served.
>
> Let's see the Palestinians take the "high ground". No more terrorism, period.
I assume you mean from both sides?
> And let's see an unequivocal acknowledgment from the Arab world of the right for
> Israel to exist as a sovereign nation.
Is that not what is being offered right now? What has the Israeli response been?
> It must begin with them, because it is
> not reasonable for the world to expect Israel to answer terrorist attacks
> against her citizens with inaction, or to expect them to negotiate peace with a
> group who is simultaneously inflicting terrorist attacks upon them.
Nor is it acceptable to allow Israel to kill civilians in the manner they
do; an Israeli civilian is worth no more/less than a Palestinian. If you
have studied the "Arab-Israeli dilemma" you will know that Israel has been a
belligerent nation with a shocking record on human rights since its UDI.
Your view appears to be that this is a battle of good v evil - I reject that
notion totally. I agree that Arafat is a problem, but the same can be said
of Sharon – both have blood on their hands. Do you deny that?
Who “started” the current round of violence?
>
> But I don't believe it will happen, because the Arab world loves its hatred for
> the Jews more than it cares about the plight of the Palestinians-- it's as
> simple as that. Unfortunately, the Palestinians are caught in the middle.
Your stated view is a generalisation. But why do you think that “hate” exists?
> Time will tell, and the longer this drags on, the more I will be proven right.
Time will tell. Perhaps this will end when the USA stops funding Israel to
the tune of ~$2.5B pa. Perhaps that will force Israel to negotiate?
Scott A
>
> -John
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Message has 1 Reply:
 | | Re: jumping to conclusions
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| (...) I think I clarified that. I said that if they *support* terrorists, they are as *culpable* as terrorists. Since the PLO represents them, they are in the unfortunate position of supporting terrorism. They are being woefully misled. Or (...) (...) (24 years ago, 22-Apr-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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Message is in Reply To:
| | Re: jumping to conclusions
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| (...) Having this discussion with you is futile-- I *never* said that I thought all Palestinians are terrorists. From your "sighs" in previous posts, it seems to me that you think that you have such a superior command of facts. Have you ever been to (...) (24 years ago, 22-Apr-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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