Subject:
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avoiding the conclusion (was Re: jumping to conclusions)
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Newsgroups:
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lugnet.off-topic.debate
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Date:
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Tue, 23 Apr 2002 09:18:44 GMT
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Viewed:
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1547 times
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John,
I started by saying you were jumping to conclusions, now I feel you are
avoiding the conclusion. I had hoped that your formal study of the
“Israeli-Arab Dilemma” would mean that I would be provided with some
meaningful insight into the current conflict, instead you are just deleting
parts of the text you don’t like (just like the Palestinians and Israelis do
with embarrassing parts of history in their school text books!).
I have highlighted a couple of sections of deleted text which are of
interest to me below, I shall answer the rest of your points later.
Part 1 : All the Palestinian people are terrorists?
==+==
> > "My views on human rights and international law, together with my
> > understanding of recent middle-east history, leads me to sympathize with the
> > Palestinian people, not with "PLO terrorists". I hope you understand the
> > distinction between the two."
> >
> > You said:
> > "Sorry, there isn't one."
>
> I think I clarified that. I said that if they *support* terrorists, they are as
> *culpable* as terrorists.
You said:
1. “Sorry, there isn't one. “
2. “The PLO represent the Palestinians.”
3. “Whatever the PLO does, the Palestinians support them.”
4. “Anyone who supports the actions of terrorists is just as culpable as the
terrorists themselves.”
==+==
Above, I quoted where you had said, without qualification, that there was no
distinction between the Palestinian people & "PLO terrorists".
Question: Do you now wish to retract that view? If you do, I must remind you
that it was your basis for saying I support "PLO terrorists" – an accusation
which I find rather offensive.
Part 2 : Israel is a Belligerent Nation?
==+==
> If you
> > have studied the "Arab-Israeli dilemma" you will know that Israel has been a
> > belligerent nation with a shocking record on human rights since its UDI.
>
> That is B, as in B, and S as in S. "Belligerent nation"? What tripe! Their
> violence as a nation can be directly linked to her defending herself against
> Arab aggressors.
That is B, as in B, and S as in S. What was Israel’s claim to the Straits
of Tiran? I won’t even mention Ben-Gurion’s “fantastic plan”.
Below is how Moshe Dayan described border clashes with Syria in the prelude
to the ’67 war (when he was minister of defence):
”I know how at least 80 percent of the clashes there started. In my opinion,
more than 80 percent, but let's talk about 80 percent. It went this way: We
would send a tractor to plough someplace where it wasn't possible to do
anything, in the demilitarized area, and knew in advance that the Syrians
would start to shoot. If they didn't shoot, we would tell the tractor to
advance farther, until in the end the Syrians would get annoyed and shoot.
And then we would use artillery and later the air force also, and that's
howit was. I did that, and Laskov and Chara [Rabin's predecessor as chief of
staff] did that, and Yitzhak did that, but it seems to me that the person
who most enjoyed these games was Dado [David Elazar, OC Northern Command,
1964-69].”
One could hardly accuse Moshe Dayan as being part of the international
anti-Israeli conspiracy?
What was Israel’s role in Suez? Why no mention of its own borders in its UDI?
==+==
Let’s take this step-by-step
1 In the text above, I claimed Israel was/is a “belligerent nation” (As
are/were others in the ME).
2 You claimed that was “tripe!” and that “Their violence as a nation can be
directly linked to her defending herself against Arab aggressors”.
3 I did not agree with you, and supported my position with a number of
examples of what I feel is proof of Israeli belligerence.
Question : Do you agree that these are examples of Israeli belligerence? If
not, why?
Scott A
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Message is in Reply To:
 | | Re: jumping to conclusions
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| (...) So what's a Palestinian to do? Speak out against the PLO? Peacemakers aren't very welcome in the Arab world--just ask Sadat's widow. (...) None really, except to note that the US media is getting *so* biased that it is surprising even itself. (...) (23 years ago, 22-Apr-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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