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(...) Actually -- I take that back, partially. There's one thing I hadn't considered: invasive URL pointers into www.lego.com! Ug. For example, what someone just posted here: (URL) very possibly a violation of the LEGO Company's privacy, simply via (...) (25 years ago, 10-Dec-99, to lugnet.admin.general)
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(...) week, eh? The dizzying highs, the terrible lows, the creamy middles... (...) True. I mean, clearly they aren't meant to be seen yet, because they aren't linked fromt he pages. And yet, LEGO has them on a server, where a li'l ol' http request (...) (25 years ago, 10-Dec-99, to lugnet.admin.general)
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(...) The only answer at this point is to shut the server down. That's a kneejerk reaction and it won't solve the problem but it's the only responsible thing to do for now. (...) This is not good. --Todd (25 years ago, 10-Dec-99, to lugnet.admin.general, lugnet.announce)
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(...) If you put a server on the public internet, you can't expect that people aren't going to nose around and see what they can see. I'm on the other side of the fence on this one. If TLG has a privacy expectation for these pictures, they should do (...) (25 years ago, 10-Dec-99, to lugnet.admin.general)
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(...) I can't do it. I can't justify doing this. --Todd (25 years ago, 10-Dec-99, to lugnet.admin.general)
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(...) Doing what? I'm not following you at this point. Were you seriously contemplating shutting down all of LUGNET because someone posted a URL to some images on the lego.com site? Images that are out in public view? Images therefore covered under (...) (25 years ago, 10-Dec-99, to lugnet.admin.general)
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(...) I'm looking for a solution (even an imperfect one) to an extremely complex problem which I'm afraid doesn't exist (the solution, that is). --Todd (25 years ago, 10-Dec-99, to lugnet.admin.general)
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(...) I think the solution you have in place is fine: 1) Have a solid set of user Terms of Service. 2) Be willing to back them up with action when necessary. If what people are doing seriously violates the ToS, then warn them off of it and have the (...) (25 years ago, 10-Dec-99, to lugnet.admin.general)
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(...) The first thing you can do, instead of bouncing the server, is to bump off the folks who *flagrantly* flout your request to not post sensitive TLC info. Specifically, *this* info. Personally, I'd yank Remy's posting privs immediately. I'm not (...) (25 years ago, 10-Dec-99, to lugnet.admin.general)
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Step 1: take a deep breath Step 2: cancel the offending post Step 3: remind everyone not to post "not yet public information" KL (...) (25 years ago, 10-Dec-99, to lugnet.admin.general)
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(...) I'm missing something here. Retailer catalogs are one thing. They're pretty clearly not for general consumption. But why exactly are the images in question trade secrets? They are posted on a public server by TLG with no protection whatever. (...) (25 years ago, 10-Dec-99, to lugnet.admin.general)
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| | Re: Server being voluntarily taken down (was: Re: Cats and pigeons...)
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(...) Agree with Larry here. If I can browse to it freely just by going to www.lego.com and clicking on links (and I can) - then it is public. NFF James (URL) (25 years ago, 10-Dec-99, to lugnet.admin.general)
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(...) But it *is* public. It is on a public server, open to everyone. If that isn't public, I don't know what is. I (and others) did this Last December to see some of the Star Wars sets, and no one complained then. why is today different? Because of (...) (25 years ago, 10-Dec-99, to lugnet.admin.general)
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(...) goes along the same lines as, "we are physically free to walk out the 7-11 door with an unpaid-for pack of gum, so we should be allowed to". But the thing is, is that we as TLC's customers have an unwritten contract with TLC to act (...) (25 years ago, 10-Dec-99, to lugnet.admin.general)
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(...) not I... I can't believe this conversation is even taking place... let me get this straight.. images are hosted on an open server... someone comes along and finds them by mod'ing the location line of a published, linked image (no doubt (...) (25 years ago, 10-Dec-99, to lugnet.admin.general)
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(...) To clarify things, whilst someone did post a link that went directly to a picture of an unreleased set, for me at least ALL the sets new were, and still are on some ISP's(!):- A. all the new sections can be linked to from appropriate links on (...) (25 years ago, 10-Dec-99, to lugnet.admin.general, lugnet.general)
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(...) off the (...) The analogy is flawed. It is illegal to walk out with unpaid-for gum. It is the internets intent to disseminate information. If you post it on your site, you are saying "Hey, look at this". That is how it works out practically (...) (25 years ago, 10-Dec-99, to lugnet.admin.general)
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(...) the (...) I made a longer post on this somewhere else, but to clarify, here in the UK I could see all the sets clearly linked to from the front of the catalog, with new buttons for Knights Kingdom etc, and all the new sets were in the drop (...) (25 years ago, 10-Dec-99, to lugnet.admin.general)
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(...) (Question) You can start at (URL) and see the same year-2000 pictures as the ones linked to in the list posted by Remy just by clicking links, without having to change the URL manually?? My understanding was that the only way to get to the (...) (25 years ago, 10-Dec-99, to lugnet.admin.general)
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(...) Absolutely. 1: browse to (URL) follow hyperlinks/buttons "Lego Finder", "catalogue", "Europe/Africa", "System" "Knight's Kingdom" 3: select a set from the drop down list (or use the one that's there) 4: click the magnifying glass in the lower (...) (25 years ago, 10-Dec-99, to lugnet.admin.general)
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(...) You sure can. www.lego.com Use the quick finder, choose catalogue. Click on Europe on the map. Choose System. There are a bunch of broken thumbnails, but they are the new themes. Click on the one next to the Ninja one, and you get the Knight's (...) (25 years ago, 10-Dec-99, to lugnet.admin.general)
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(...) [snip] (...) Since my own posting rights might be in jeopardy, I feel the need to mention that I wouldn't've gotten the quick URL that I posted without going through the European catalog once in the first place. The missing image for Lego Baby (...) (25 years ago, 10-Dec-99, to lugnet.admin.general)
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(...) Don't know how new this one is, but if you go to Mindstorms (in the Euro catalog on lego.com), you can look through the drop-down list and see the mars exploration set... Rob - Voice of the South (25 years ago, 10-Dec-99, to lugnet.admin.general)
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(...) Could we be getting served different pages? I don't see a "catalogue" or "catalogue" link anywhere from the "Lego Finder" page. But I can get to the Europe/Africa page form the URL hint from SteveB: (URL) on the Europe/Africa -> System -> (...) (25 years ago, 10-Dec-99, to lugnet.admin.general)
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(...) Note: I've only done this for a small handful of sets - I have work to do this afternoon, in addition to following the brouhaha - so I don't know if the process works for *all* the sets. Note also: I've been having intermittent problems at (...) (25 years ago, 10-Dec-99, to lugnet.admin.general)
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(...) It's not the same analogy at all. More like if outside the 7-11, on a public sidewalk, there was a big box with a sign over it that said "free for the taking" and it had gum in it. Are we supposed to read the minds of the 7-11 owners as to (...) (25 years ago, 10-Dec-99, to lugnet.admin.general)
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(...) When you hit "lego finder" look under the list of ages at the "catalog" button and click it. Then you can choose Europe. (...) (25 years ago, 10-Dec-99, to lugnet.admin.general)
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(...) Hmm - Waited for the image to load this time - it's right below the age chart, and says "CATALOG" (...) Then we're being served different pages. I see it. Just jumped the hoops again, and saw 5903. I'm not logged into the Web Club - are you? (...) (25 years ago, 10-Dec-99, to lugnet.admin.general)
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(...) I think we have been victims of an internet cacheing/replication problem. My guess is someone at lego made changes this morning to the web site in preparation for the new catalog. Before it was completed, some of the new pages/database (...) (25 years ago, 10-Dec-99, to lugnet.admin.general)
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It seems that there are no links from the "set database" to the images yet. The images still work, but I could not find any that were not listed (perhaps I am being web stupid however...) I still stand by the right to post links to pages on the (...) (25 years ago, 10-Dec-99, to lugnet.admin.general)
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Oh now I have seen it ALL. TRADE SECRETS?!? That's it, you people are so hopelessly uptight, I may leave this group and go back to RTL!!! I'd rather have anarchy than self-righteousness! THEY ARE LINKS TO PICS ON THE F$&()%$ LEGO.COM SITE! If they (...) (25 years ago, 10-Dec-99, to lugnet.admin.general)
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(...) Okay, I see the "catalog" link. Clicking it now. OK, am now on the Europe/ Africa page. OK, am now on the System page. OK, am now on the Adventurers page. Still don't see 5903 in the list! --Todd (25 years ago, 10-Dec-99, to lugnet.admin.general)
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James Brown wrote in message ... (...) year-2000 (...) Gone now... Either TLC is committing a development sin here, or some hackers are having some fun. Assuming it isn't hackers, it appears that someone is testing new material on the live public (...) (25 years ago, 10-Dec-99, to lugnet.admin.general)
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(...) "Knight's Kingdom"? I don't see any Knight's kingdom links... (25 years ago, 10-Dec-99, to lugnet.admin.general)
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(...) On the main page, there's a yellow bar at the top. The third option over is "Quick find". Clicking it pops up a net browser menu, which has in it a choice for "Catalogue". Click on that, and then on the map of Europe, and then on System. (...) (...) (25 years ago, 10-Dec-99, to lugnet.admin.general)
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(...) Then we're getting served different pages. I'm going to reboot my machine to eliminate that I'm somehow caching this stuff. (which I'm 99% positive I'm not, but I don't always trust IE) James (URL) (25 years ago, 10-Dec-99, to lugnet.admin.general)
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(...) JP (25 years ago, 10-Dec-99, to lugnet.admin.general)
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(...) Just did it, and 5903 (and indeed, all the new Adventurer's sets) are there. eric (25 years ago, 10-Dec-99, to lugnet.admin.general)
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(...) them? Been there, done that. Closed and re-opened my browser. Logged out and back in to the firewall server. Now rebooting. James (URL) (25 years ago, 10-Dec-99, to lugnet.admin.general)
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Todd Lehman wrote in message ... (...) The button is on the left, just below the array of age buttons. Now it is remotely possible that some ISP caching of pages is affecting things, but that seems unlikely. The other possibility is that you saw a (...) (25 years ago, 10-Dec-99, to lugnet.admin.general)
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(...) OK, did that. I'm on this page: (URL) There are a bunch of broken thumbnails, but they are the new themes. (...) Hmm, I don't see any broken thumbnails -- all the images loaded successfully. The thumbnails in the yellow box in the right panel, (...) (25 years ago, 10-Dec-99, to lugnet.admin.general)
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(...) caching...Just, for Sh--s and grins, try using a different browser (like Netscape or something). Rob (25 years ago, 10-Dec-99, to lugnet.admin.general)
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(...) I would say the 2000 set pages are history now here in the UK. (no doubt someone will prove me wrong) I have tried several different ISP's, flushed my PC's cache, etc and they have now all disappeared. They are all showing the 'proper' (?) (...) (25 years ago, 10-Dec-99, to lugnet.admin.general)
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(...) That's what I thought (that's what I'd read elsewhere just prior to Remy's post): They're not in the set database, but the images are sitting there like sitting ducks. (...) You could copy those images to geocities and link to them and they'd (...) (25 years ago, 10-Dec-99, to lugnet.admin.general)
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(...) Well, considering LEGO direct is supposedly reading LUGNET, they may have realized what happened, and told TLC to fix it... -Shiri (25 years ago, 10-Dec-99, to lugnet.admin.general)
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(...) But, they were there. I would think that makes Remy's post fine, and I think (again this is just personal feeling) that Todd, you should apoligise and retract your statement (at least part of it) (post 405 to announcements). Remy only posted (...) (25 years ago, 10-Dec-99, to lugnet.admin.general)
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(...) Nope. No intent to protect. Now, if you took a stance that said that you wanted everyone to guess what TLG really meant, that would be different (and impossible to enforce). But TLG is not demonstrating intent to protect. Given how much you (...) (25 years ago, 10-Dec-99, to lugnet.admin.general)
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(...) Well. You're right now, that is what's there. But earlier, when I posted it, it was as I described. It's not a caching issue, I never go to www.lego.com (too bloated for my taste). (...) Me too. eric (25 years ago, 10-Dec-99, to lugnet.admin.general)
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goto catalog, japan, system...Japan has four pirate sets...is that new? (25 years ago, 10-Dec-99, to lugnet.admin.general)
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(...) I see: Basic Supplementary Belville City Radio Control X-Treme Res-Q Insectoids Spaceport Ninja Knight's Kingdom Adventurers Rock Raiders Star Wars Classic Star Wars Episode I Star Wars Ultimate Collectors Trains Model Team Artic Football (...) (25 years ago, 10-Dec-99, to lugnet.admin.general)
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(...) Not an option here at work. Standardized desktop and all that. James (URL) (25 years ago, 11-Dec-99, to lugnet.admin.general)
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(...) This assumes that we know what their policy is for announcing sets. Getting a 2000 catalog in a Snowspeeder set isn't really "announcing" the 2000 sets, either, is it? One must assume, absent other statements, that putting the jpegs on the (...) (25 years ago, 11-Dec-99, to lugnet.admin.general)
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(...) I think it is a caching issue Not your local PC cache, but your ISP's cache. Different ISP's are clearly serving up different versions of lego.com I was sitting hitting two ISPs simultaneously and getting different lego.coms As the day (...) (25 years ago, 11-Dec-99, to lugnet.admin.general)
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I could see the broken GIFs over the links this morning at home (USA), but not by the time I checked at work an hour later. Yet obviously others are able to access them. (...) -- | Tom Stangl, Technical Support Netscape Communications Corp | Please (...) (25 years ago, 11-Dec-99, to lugnet.admin.general)
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(...) Yes, stand by it all you want. You have however, just vindicated what I said. Namely, if it is public domain (IE on this side of a firewall at www.lego.com or any other site), then it is by definition in the public domain. I am willing to bet (...) (25 years ago, 11-Dec-99, to lugnet.admin.general)
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James Brown wrote in message ... (...) successfully. (...) have (...) and (...) pages (...) Are you behind a firewall? Your firewall may be caching the pages. Here's something you can try - use Babelfish at (URL) translate the page from any (...) (25 years ago, 11-Dec-99, to lugnet.admin.general)
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(...) I dunno man. U'm running on about was much sleep as they probably are and I'll tell you what this ugly bag of mostly water is thinking: I'm thinking it will be nice to hopefully discuss this all with someone at LEGO Direct rationally a month (...) (25 years ago, 11-Dec-99, to lugnet.admin.general)
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(...) But they WERE in the set database. I saw them at home this morning, and loaded up several of the graphics. Here in the good ole' USA. If you would have been up to buy DYA sets, you'd have seen them too ;-) (...) No. If their web designers are (...) (25 years ago, 11-Dec-99, to lugnet.admin.general)
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(...) I gotta say,man, this thing really spooks me. --Todd (25 years ago, 11-Dec-99, to lugnet.admin.general)
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The JPGs, however, are still there. (...) -- | Tom Stangl, Technical Support Netscape Communications Corp | Please do not associate my personal views with my employer (25 years ago, 11-Dec-99, to lugnet.admin.general)
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(...) Ok, life gets weirder. I just got home, browsed over to www.lego.com - lo and behold the controversial links are there. This absolutely settles it in my mind (not that I had much doubt): The weirdness is at Lego. Different browser, different (...) (25 years ago, 11-Dec-99, to lugnet.admin.general)
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(...) THAT is like rilly rilly freaky dude. You're only 4 blocks away from me and you see these yet I don't. I'm accessing right now via javanet.com and you're accessing via thirteen.net, both presumably within a very close area, but of course they (...) (25 years ago, 11-Dec-99, to lugnet.admin.general)
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(...) Morning? Heck, I first accessed the pages themselves around 3:00pm (ET) this afternoon! I saw the images themselves by typing in the URLs at about noon. Jeff (25 years ago, 11-Dec-99, to lugnet.admin.general)
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(...) Unless it's propagating slowly, but in the other directions (pictures slowly appearing, as opposed to slowly disappearing)? This is weird. I think I'm going to go to my work's X-mas party, and drink and eat and hope someone's figured this all (...) (25 years ago, 11-Dec-99, to lugnet.admin.general)
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(...) Just to clarify - I never had broken links from my side. The links have *always* worked, but they have *never* had a working graphic. James (URL) (25 years ago, 11-Dec-99, to lugnet.admin.general)
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(...) Or, more precisely, the weirdness is every but at Lego. :-) Ya, this caching this would explain everything. At this point, in my mind, there's no doubt that Lego did intend to release these pictures ~12 hours ago and that the information took (...) (25 years ago, 11-Dec-99, to lugnet.admin.general)
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(...) We hear you and feel your pain. You MUST be spun up, that message has more typos than I've ever seen you make in one post. As you noticed, Brad J posted a reply to my DearLEGO post promising some official answers and asking people to settle (...) (25 years ago, 11-Dec-99, to lugnet.admin.general)
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(...) Wholeheartedly agreed. (...) I think we'll have to ("have to" as in "makes the most sense to") see if we can get some sort of "rulebook" or "playbook" clarifications from LEGO, hopefully via LEGO Direct, and use that as the standing ground. (...) (25 years ago, 11-Dec-99, to lugnet.admin.general)
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For the sake of clarification, I did send an email to Brad today so he could give Big Brother's views on the matter at hand. I didn't send it until 4:30 cst, so I don't expect a response until sometime next week (considering he DOES respond). (25 years ago, 11-Dec-99, to lugnet.admin.general)
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(...) Thank You Todd... for being able to see both sides of this issue. I agree with what I snipped, and I think that clarification is a good thing, rather than a bad thing. James Powell (25 years ago, 11-Dec-99, to lugnet.admin.general)
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| | TLG official response may be coming (was Re: Cats and pigeons...
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(...) Well, legodirect has beat your expectations. I asked, he answered.(1) (URL) got cross posted to admin.general as well) I for one find this promise of some official statement of direction to be VERY promising. Very VERY promising. 1 - it may (...) (25 years ago, 11-Dec-99, to lugnet.admin.general)
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| | Re: TLG official response may be coming (was Re: Cats and pigeons...
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(...) <joke> <reply> OK...don't rub it in, OR, I'm not worthy *bowing* </reply> </joke> (25 years ago, 11-Dec-99, to lugnet.admin.general)
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Congratulations Larry! Keep asking the good questions. Build On! John Matthews Larry Pieniazek <lar@voyager.net> wrote in message news:3851B7CD.95F2C5...ger.net... (...) could (...) 4:30 (...) he (...) (25 years ago, 11-Dec-99, to lugnet.admin.general)
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(...) For the record, I'm not accessing the internet via thirteen.net- that's just where I get my email. If you're really interested, I can divulge the specifics of my internet connectivty to you in private. (...) Same here. (...) What?!?!? Whoa. (...) (25 years ago, 11-Dec-99, to lugnet.admin.general)
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(...) I can prove myself wrong. They're back! They were not there this afternoon, then this evening they turned up again on 2 ISP's I tried (where they had disappeared from last night) Very weird Behaviour is still the same, all the links work on (...) (25 years ago, 11-Dec-99, to lugnet.admin.general)
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(...) It worked! ;) James (URL) (25 years ago, 12-Dec-99, to lugnet.admin.general)
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| | Re: Server being voluntarily taken down (was: Re: Cats and pigeons...)
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(...) I don't think this is relevant. This is a part of why we have URLs: to locate resources without having to "burrow". As an example, my Mindstorms stuff is at <URL:(URL), which you can't get to from the "root" at <URL:(URL). Does this mean it's (...) (25 years ago, 12-Dec-99, to lugnet.admin.general)
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| | Re: Server being voluntarily taken down (was: Re: Cats and pigeons...)
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(...) Never claimed otherwise. I was adding to Larry's point. He said (paraphrase warning) 'anything on the public side of a firewall is public', and I added 'not only are these on the public side of a firewall, but they've provided links to them' (...) (25 years ago, 12-Dec-99, to lugnet.admin.general)
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(...) I find it odd, though, that now suddenly these things arouse all this bad feeling, where things like this have been going on for a while. Specifically, sometime before the first SW sets came out, I discovered a directory on a web server that (...) (25 years ago, 12-Dec-99, to lugnet.admin.general)
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(...) Uhm, Jeff? To paraphrase a popular quote: This is Lugnet. You have no inherent rights. Todd can do whatever he wants with lugnet.com. Up to and including going postal BOFH and cancelling random messages. Whether he is likely to do so, or will (...) (25 years ago, 12-Dec-99, to lugnet.admin.general)
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(...) All calm and rational people have a breaking point (IMHO). What differs is simply the length of the fuse (how long something takes to reach critical mass) and the size of the splat (how big the resulting stink becomes). Other factors of course (...) (25 years ago, 13-Dec-99, to lugnet.admin.general)
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| | Re: Cats and pigeons...
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(...) I should point out that anyone could go postal on Usenet and start cancelling random messages there just as easily if they really wanted to. It's slightly more difficult to forge cancels than to forge actual messages, but it can be done, and (...) (25 years ago, 13-Dec-99, to lugnet.admin.general)
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| | Re: Cats and pigeons...
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First off, I just want to say that I can see my previous attitude in a different light. I trust that the parties involved understand that there is no need to flame me via e-mail. Having said that, after seeing how quickly the situation on lego.com (...) (25 years ago, 13-Dec-99, to lugnet.admin.general)
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| | Re: Cats and pigeons...
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(...) I could be wrong, but I think that has been there for some time. The Mars set was planned to be released as a Mindstorms add-on from the start, along with Extreme Creatures and Robo-sports, but for some reason, the Mars kit never came out. (...) (25 years ago, 13-Dec-99, to lugnet.admin.general)
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| | Re: Cats and pigeons...
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(...) I don't think anyone is saying that "publicly accessible = public domain". What we're saying is: "made publicly accessible on a web site = made publicly accessible", which seems pretty clear to me. Putting something on a web site certainly (...) (25 years ago, 13-Dec-99, to lugnet.admin.general)
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| | Re: Cats and pigeons...
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Steve Bliss <blisses@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message news:rVJVONmtD15I4D1...4ax.com... (...) mars (...) set (...) with (...) came (...) I think the delay was caused by technical difficulties, mostly with the camera hardware. It's one thing to (...) (25 years ago, 14-Dec-99, to lugnet.admin.general)
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